Would SKS be able to check the following marriages, which possibly took place in Caernarfonshire (a kind person has already checked Anglesey as I thought they'd got married in Holyead or Amwlch, but nil result). Apologies for the sparse information! 1. David HUGHES m Mary 31 Oct 1779 2. Thomas HUGHES m Mary 15 May 1780. Probably like looking for a needle in a haystack but .......... With thanks Lizzie Brisbane, Australia FHS: Mont #965, Gwynedd #2991 outgoing mail scanned by PC-cillin 2004

Thank you

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Hi, Have you tried to find a birth cert for John Davies? This would list his parents names and his place of birth. Might give the Latter Day Saints site a try. They also have the census' for many years. Arlene > Hi > I am trying to track down the parents of John (A?) Davies possibly born at > Llandudno in 1876 or there abouts. He married a Ellen or Elin Jones or > Griffiths in about 1900-1903. > > If it was Ellen Jones she would probably have been inservice, originating > from Bangor. If it was Elin Griffiths she probably lived about the time of > the marriage at 1 Bay View Terrace, half way up the Great Orme. > > Any suggestions as to where I might look for the wedding would be welcoms > along with any other ideas on how to firm up the information > > At least one Griffiths worked for Grocer EB Jones of Llandudno, where he > met > to future wife Mary Jones, (of Bangor) who was in service at their home > > I have checked the Bangor records for any Jones marriage with out > success. > Soon after their marriage they were living in Manchester > > Regards > Tony Barratt > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >

But what about all that moaning? Would Mrs. Manning not have gone for help at that point? Was she able to sleep through his moaning? Did she not attempt to stop him as he was obviously not doing it very quietly. Just some more thoughts. Arlene > Though there is certainly reason to suspect Mrs. Manning of foul play, > allow me to play Devil's Advocate for a moment. > >> The natural reaction, one would have thought, on finding her husband >> dead, >> would have been to scream the house down, or at the very least wake the >> couple next door and ask for help??? >> >> If she had nothing to hide, why try and mop up the blood, and go to the >> trouble of shutting the razor and placing it on the table top? What was >> the >> bundle of clothing all about??? >> >> Why did it take Mrs. Manning between 3 and 4 hours to set off to report >> the >> death? >> >> Why walk to Caernarfon to her son's house, a distance of about nine >> miles, >> when there was a police station at Bangor within easy walking distance. >> Could it have been so that Mr. R. A. Poole, Esq., would have time to >> "fix" >> things??? > > In my own family, there was a mysterious death that was explained as a > sudden illness, but is believed to have actually been a suicide. The > reason that no one is certain how the man died is because of the stigma > such an act carried in the 1940's in my family- no one wanted to admit > it then, and even now. > > So in my own family, I can see any of the above happening in the event > of a suicide; the attempt at clean-up, the first impulse to go to > someone other than the authorities, putting away the weapon, getting rid > of the clothes, even trying to use your influence to keep the truth from > getting out. > > There's an American movie where a woman comes home to find someone has > committed suicide in the house. Upon discovering the body the first > thing she does is to snatch up the suicide note- and eat it. I found > this hilarious- it's exactly what my grandmother would have done. > > Despite all this, I'm not convinced that Mrs. Manning is completely > innocent, but neither am I certain that she is guilty. All that seems > clear to me is that the chocolate teapot should have been fired. > > Rachel > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >

Hi, A transcript of the 1820 Presentment of Nuisances for the Town of Carnarvon is now ready. This one is much more comprehensive than any of the others already online, and makes interesting reading. Also added today is a description of the town from Slater's Directory of 1856. Both of these can be found in the Miscellaneous Section at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/ Regards, Keith.

I wonder if any kind listers could help me out with an error in my tree which came to light on Saturday. Jane Williams married Thomas Jones on Nov 17 1837 in Dwygyfylchi. The daughter of Robert Williams, a labourer, she is given as being resident of Tyddyn Du. (Her first and second children with Thomas, Richard and Jane are also recorded as being born at Tyddyn Du in 1838 and 1839 respectively. The third child, Thomas was born at Treforis as were all subsequent children. Census returns for the family indicate Jane Williams to be born in Caerhun approximately 1817. I therefore naturally searched the Caerhun Bapstism Register and duly found a Jane, daughter of Robert and Ellin of Tyddyn Du baptised on 23 August 1816. Bingo I thought! I then searched through the burial register and found Robert and Ellins' burials. I also found the family on the 1841 and 1851 census. Armed with this information I paid a visit to the churchyard of Caerhun on saturday and found their gravestone and here comes my problem. The stone also records the death of a child, Elen, aged 4 to parents Jane and John Roberts, also of Tyddyn Du. I have a very strong feeling that this is the Jane I found in the Register of Baptisms..........drat! I quickly pulled out my notes and re-read them.......the 1851 census records a Jane, daughter, living with the family, aged 30 and married.....at the same time as "my" Jane had already had 6 children by Thomas, with no. 7 on the way and had been firmly ensconssed at Treforis for some years! Definately not the right family then! I was wrestling this in my head all last night until, whilst looking on the old maps site, i noticed their to be a Tyddyn Du in between Dwygyfylchi and Penmaenmawr - Salvation? but also a problem.....I can't near Llandudno library or any other repository of the 1841 or 1851 census for the area for at least 4 weeks - (I will go gaga!) - and therefore, after much long winded preamble, would anyone who has access to either of these census', be so good as to have a look for afore said Tyddyn Du in Dwygyfylchi Parish and let me know who lives their....you may just stop me going bald with worry! many, many thanks in anticipation..... Glyn

Thank you Thomas Merrion Hughes for your reply about the Llandudno E.R. I will contact Mr.Pickering and see if he can help, although if you are correct with women not voting unless they were over 30 I think that I have a problem. Kind Regards Kathy ROBERTS,WILLIAMS Llandudno

I know for a fact, having viewed Caernarfon District of Boroughs and Caernarfon County Electoral Registers at the Library at Caernarfon (Pavilion Hill) that there are registers for the Caernarfon District of Boroughs (which includes Llandudno). It is only a few weeks ago that I checked several of the Caernarfon Town 1920's registers. but if my memory serves me correctly there was no register for 1919. I am almost positive that all the 1920's are there though and if Caernarfon Town is there why should not Bangor or Llandudno be there as they were all part of Lloyd George's constituency,which was called Caernarfon District of Boroughs. I am sure that an e mail to the Library could clarify the position in no time. T Meirion Hughes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rhian Williams" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: Fw: [CAE] Llandudno E.Roll > Conwy Archives' website says that they have Electoral Registers for > '1945-1998 (some gaps, not all areas covered)', but doesn't refer to any > this early. > > www.conwy.gov.uk/archives > > I'm almost certain there are not any early ones at the Library in Llandudno > either. > > Rhian > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Hughes" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:04 PM > Subject: Re: [CAE] Llandudno E.Roll > > > > I do not think there was a register after 1915 until about 1920 when women > > of 30 years old were awarded thre vote. It was about 10 years later that > 21 > > year old females were given the vote. You could have tried the Gwynedd > > Library less than a quarter of a mile from the R.O. in Victoria Dock and > > there is a Library in Llandudno you could have tried. > > > > The Gwynedd Family History Society's English language branch at Llandudno > > could know where you could inspect the docs you require. Why not try Mr. > > Pickering, 8 St. Andrew's Place Llandudno? He happens to be the Chairman > of > > the Gwynedd FHS and could well be in a position to help you > > > > I do hope these few suggestions may be of help. > > > > Regards, > > > > T Meirion Hughes > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "colin mitchell" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 5:22 PM > > Subject: [CAE] Llandudno E.Roll > > > > > > > Hi List, > > > I have just been to Wales:-)). > > > I spent five hours looking at documents in the Caernarfon records > office. > > > The Llandudno Electoral Rolls seem to be missing for the years that I > > want. > > > Has any body any idea where I will find them please.I am looking for > 1919 > > LLandudno E.R. > > > > > > Kind regards > > > Kathy ROBERTS,WILLIAMS Llandudno > > > > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > > > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > > English are welcome > > > > > > ============================== > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru The National Library of Wales. Aberystwyth. > > www.llgc.org.uk/ > > [email protected] > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gwynedd Family History Society > www.gwynedd.fsbusiness.co.uk/ > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Conwy Archives' website says that they have Electoral Registers for '1945-1998 (some gaps, not all areas covered)', but doesn't refer to any this early. www.conwy.gov.uk/archives I'm almost certain there are not any early ones at the Library in Llandudno either. Rhian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Hughes" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [CAE] Llandudno E.Roll > I do not think there was a register after 1915 until about 1920 when women > of 30 years old were awarded thre vote. It was about 10 years later that 21 > year old females were given the vote. You could have tried the Gwynedd > Library less than a quarter of a mile from the R.O. in Victoria Dock and > there is a Library in Llandudno you could have tried. > > The Gwynedd Family History Society's English language branch at Llandudno > could know where you could inspect the docs you require. Why not try Mr. > Pickering, 8 St. Andrew's Place Llandudno? He happens to be the Chairman of > the Gwynedd FHS and could well be in a position to help you > > I do hope these few suggestions may be of help. > > Regards, > > T Meirion Hughes > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "colin mitchell" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 5:22 PM > Subject: [CAE] Llandudno E.Roll > > > > Hi List, > > I have just been to Wales:-)). > > I spent five hours looking at documents in the Caernarfon records office. > > The Llandudno Electoral Rolls seem to be missing for the years that I > want. > > Has any body any idea where I will find them please.I am looking for 1919 > LLandudno E.R. > > > > Kind regards > > Kathy ROBERTS,WILLIAMS Llandudno > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > English are welcome > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru The National Library of Wales. Aberystwyth. > www.llgc.org.uk/ > [email protected] > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

I do not think there was a register after 1915 until about 1920 when women of 30 years old were awarded thre vote. It was about 10 years later that 21 year old females were given the vote. You could have tried the Gwynedd Library less than a quarter of a mile from the R.O. in Victoria Dock and there is a Library in Llandudno you could have tried. The Gwynedd Family History Society's English language branch at Llandudno could know where you could inspect the docs you require. Why not try Mr. Pickering, 8 St. Andrew's Place Llandudno? He happens to be the Chairman of the Gwynedd FHS and could well be in a position to help you I do hope these few suggestions may be of help. Regards, T Meirion Hughes ----- Original Message ----- From: "colin mitchell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 5:22 PM Subject: [CAE] Llandudno E.Roll > Hi List, > I have just been to Wales:-)). > I spent five hours looking at documents in the Caernarfon records office. > The Llandudno Electoral Rolls seem to be missing for the years that I want. > Has any body any idea where I will find them please.I am looking for 1919 LLandudno E.R. > > Kind regards > Kathy ROBERTS,WILLIAMS Llandudno > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi I am trying to track down the parents of John (A?) Davies possibly born at Llandudno in 1876 or there abouts. He married a Ellen or Elin Jones or Griffiths in about 1900-1903. If it was Ellen Jones she would probably have been inservice, originating from Bangor. If it was Elin Griffiths she probably lived about the time of the marriage at 1 Bay View Terrace, half way up the Great Orme. Any suggestions as to where I might look for the wedding would be welcoms along with any other ideas on how to firm up the information At least one Griffiths worked for Grocer EB Jones of Llandudno, where he met to future wife Mary Jones, (of Bangor) who was in service at their home I have checked the Bangor records for any Jones marriage with out success. Soon after their marriage they were living in Manchester Regards Tony Barratt

Though there is certainly reason to suspect Mrs. Manning of foul play, allow me to play Devil's Advocate for a moment. > The natural reaction, one would have thought, on finding her husband > dead, > would have been to scream the house down, or at the very least wake the > couple next door and ask for help??? > > If she had nothing to hide, why try and mop up the blood, and go to the > trouble of shutting the razor and placing it on the table top? What was > the > bundle of clothing all about??? > > Why did it take Mrs. Manning between 3 and 4 hours to set off to report > the > death? > > Why walk to Caernarfon to her son's house, a distance of about nine > miles, > when there was a police station at Bangor within easy walking distance. > Could it have been so that Mr. R. A. Poole, Esq., would have time to > "fix" > things??? In my own family, there was a mysterious death that was explained as a sudden illness, but is believed to have actually been a suicide. The reason that no one is certain how the man died is because of the stigma such an act carried in the 1940's in my family- no one wanted to admit it then, and even now. So in my own family, I can see any of the above happening in the event of a suicide; the attempt at clean-up, the first impulse to go to someone other than the authorities, putting away the weapon, getting rid of the clothes, even trying to use your influence to keep the truth from getting out. There's an American movie where a woman comes home to find someone has committed suicide in the house. Upon discovering the body the first thing she does is to snatch up the suicide note- and eat it. I found this hilarious- it's exactly what my grandmother would have done. Despite all this, I'm not convinced that Mrs. Manning is completely innocent, but neither am I certain that she is guilty. All that seems clear to me is that the chocolate teapot should have been fired. Rachel

Hi, The final paragraph of the report was: "The foreman of the Jury, after a short consultation, stated that the jury were fully satisfied, and a verdict of Not Guilty was then recorded." Nobody thought that Mrs. Manning was guilty. A few commented on the fact that the Coroner was about as useful as a chocolate teapot :-) Call me cynical, but I think that there is more to this case than meets the eye. My thoughts are: The natural reaction, one would have thought, on finding her husband dead, would have been to scream the house down, or at the very least wake the couple next door and ask for help??? If she had nothing to hide, why try and mop up the blood, and go to the trouble of shutting the razor and placing it on the table top? What was the bundle of clothing all about??? Why did it take Mrs. Manning between 3 and 4 hours to set off to report the death? Why walk to Caernarfon to her son's house, a distance of about nine miles, when there was a police station at Bangor within easy walking distance. Could it have been so that Mr. R. A. Poole, Esq., would have time to "fix" things??? Those are some of my thoughts. You can shoot me down in flames now :-) Also some background information: Elizabeth Poole, Widow, of the Parish of St. Mary, Lambeth, married Thomas Beckett Manning, of Bishop's Stortford, Herts. on 28th. August, 1819, presumably at Lambeth. A Thomas Beckett Manning was baptised at Plymouth in December 1781. For those with local knowledge of Caernarfonshire and its history, the Poole family are well-known. They were a rich and influential family, and they were probably on first name terms with all the officials in court that day. Mrs. Manning's brother in law was Owen Anthony Poole who lived at Gorphwysfa until his death. He was a prominent Attorney at Caernarfon. Her son, Richard Anthony Poole, was, in 1823, County Treasurer, and also an Attorney. The kind of people the Pooles interacted with socially is illustrated by a list of the members of the "Menai Pitt Club" for 1809. Owen Anthony Poole and W. P. Poole, Esq., were members, along with such luminaries as Sir W. Bulkeley Hughes, Knt.; T. Assheton Smith, Esq., M.P.; Richard Edwards, Esq., Nanhoron; William Wynn, Esq., Llandegwning; Evan Jones, Esq., Gelliwig; and Rice Thomas jun., Esq.;. A veritable who's who of the movers and shakers of Caernarfonshire society. Murder or suicide? Was it all swept under the carpet to save the family reputation? We'll never know, but at least it has passed an hour or two, and increased our historical knowledge of the county. Regards, Keith.

Hello everyone acouple of requests if possible. Does anyone have the 1851 & 1861 census for Dolwyddelan. I am looking for the family of Abraham and Jonnet Jones.Abraham was born in Dolwyddelan around 1804 and Jonnet in Trawsfynydd circa 1803.There children were William,Griffith and David with Margaret Owen,Robert Owen and Elizabeth Owen from a previous marriage of Jonnet and John Owen(s). Abraham and Jonnet were married on 22 April 1835. I would also be interested to find out who Abraham and Jonnets parents were. Any information gratefully recieved. Michael Mitchell.

Hello. Hoping someone has the 1861 census to find this family who are on the 1851 census, WILLIAM DAVIES born LLangystennin and was aged 27 then Wife Jane Davies born Egwlysbach age 27. Daur Anne Jane Davies age 2 Born LLandudno Son John Davies age one month, Born LLandudno Address in 1851 was PEN Y-ERW LLANDUDNO, I have other census for 1871 1881 and 1901 which state that Anne Jane was born In LLandudno Thank you Dorothea

Thank You for this. Kathy > The National Library of Wales might have them, as they have all records. > You might also try the PRO which is online. Unfortunately, I am presently > away from home and don't have access to the website address. > > Arlene Berta > > > > > > Hi List, > > I have just been to Wales:-)). > > I spent five hours looking at documents in the Caernarfon records office. > > The Llandudno Electoral Rolls seem to be missing for the years that I > > want. > > Has any body any idea where I will find them please.I am looking for 1919 > > LLandudno E.R. > > > > Kind regards > > Kathy ROBERTS,WILLIAMS Llandudno > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > > English are welcome > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > ______________________________

Hi, I've had a few emails during the day from people who missed the original posting, so I have sent them a copy. To give them a chance to check their mail and read it, I will hang on until tomorrow evening before posting the verdict. Regards, Keith.

I'm thinking she wasn't charged though I must say if I ever commit murder I'd like that coroner to be on the case, he didn't notice much! Sue Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Morris" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:21 AM Subject: [CAE] Murder???? > Hi, > > Hopefully Alwyn will not mind me posting this, lengthy as it is? It is an account of a murder trial at Carnarvon, in August 1823. I have deliberately omitted the final paragraph which contains the verdict. Read the account, and lets have your own verdicts. Guilty, or Not Guilty? > > I will post the verdict tomorrow night.:-) > > Regards, > > Keith. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > > >From The Times, 25th. August, 1823 > > CARNARVON GREAT SESSIONS > > MURDER - THE KING v. ELIZABETH MANNING > > Mr. COCKRELL having opened the indictment, Mr. WYATT, the Attorney-General, in a very feeling and impressive manner opened the case. > > Thomas Thomas, of Bangor-ferry, examined by Mr. COCKRELL. - I am a chaise-driver; I live near Bangor-ferry; I live in the cottage next door to the deceased Mr. Manning's house. I saw the deceased about half-past eight on Monday evening, 4th of August instant, before his death; Mrs. Manning was arm-in-arm with him; he had her pattens in his hand. The two houses are separated by a stone-wall, I think. It was difficult in the night when one is between sleep and awake to hear what passed in the other house. I think we could hear if we applied our ears to hear. I awoke in the morning of the 5th about two o'clock, and heard a noise in the deceased's house; it appeared to be moaning proceeding from deceased's house; it lasted ten minutes or less; I went to sleep directly after. I got up five minutes before six next morning to go to my work; I heard the door of the next house shut, and saw Mrs. Manning; she was going out of the house, and was proceeding towards Penychwyntan, on the ! > road to Carnarvon. I did not see her come out; I could not. I then went to work. > > Emma Thomas - I am the wife of the last witness. I know Mr. Manning, he lived under the same roof with us, not in the same house, the two houses are divided by a partition. I do not know what the partition is, whether of stone or not. We lived in one, and they lived in the other. I was awoke on Tuesday morning, the 5th instant, my husband awoke me between two and three in the morning. I slept a little, and then awoke again, and I then heard the clock strike three; when my husband awoke me I heard a noise. The noise proceeded from the adjoining house, where Mr. and Mrs. Manning lived: the noise was like moaning and crying like a woman in distress; I thought she was in distress, I thought he had struck her; it lasted about ten minutes; we then slept. > > Examined by CHIEF JUSTICE - When I heard the crying, I believed it was Mrs. Manning's voice. When I heard the crying it was between two and three in the morning. I knew the deceased for about three months before his death. I always considered him out of his mind. I slept very sound after three o'clock. > > R. A. Poole, Esq. - I am son to the prisoner. I recollect her coming to me on Tuesday morning, the 5th inst., to my lodgings at Carnarvon. It was before I got up, I think about eight o'clock. She came straight to my bed-room, in much distress, and much agitated; by saying "she came straight," I mean she came hastily, without knocking; she had come several times before, but knocked, or sent up my servant first. I think the first thing she said was "I do not know on earth what to do, Manning is dead, he has cut his throat." I think before I got up she showed me her hand, which was cut on the fore-finger. I got up immediately. I saw my clerk go by, and sent him immediately for the coroner, and desired him to call at Gorphwysfa, that he might know where this had happened. I got a chaise, and took my mother to Gorphwysfa; I met my sisters at the door, and told them what had happened. I called for the gardener, who was the only man-servant about the house, to go with me to the hou! > se of the deceased: he was not in the way. I then asked a maid-servant to go with me to Mr. Manning's house. We went there. I asked my mother on the road from Carnarvon to Gorphwysfa, for the key of the house; she felt her pocket, and gave it me. With the key I opened the door, and went into the house. I went upstairs, the servant followed. I saw the body of Mr. Manning, upon the bed, with his head towards the entrance from the stairs. The head of the bed was the other way. There was a sheet upon the body, up to his breast. I did not touch the body, or any thing in the room. There was a great deal of blood on the floor, and some of it was partly wiped. I should think it was wiped with a mop or wet cloth. The great mass of blood was only wiped. A number of spots of blood were untouched. I saw a razor shut, upon the drawers. The window was open. I touched nothing, and desired the servant not to touch any thing, and she did not. > > Robert Roberts, wheelwright - I knew Mr. Manning, and had often seen him. On Tuesday, the 5th of August inst., I went through the window into the room, where I heard that he had destroyed himself; it was about two o'clock in the afternoon. I went in first, and called another man, H. Hughes, blacksmith, to follow me. I saw the body in the room, on the bed, with the head towards the feet of the bed. When I went in, the bed was on my right hand. I called Hugh Hughes, and when he came we looked upon the body. It was covered with a sheet. We touched nothing, and went down stairs. I opened the door, and let several persons, who were by the door, in, and we all went up stairs, when we saw a razor upon the table, upon a cloth, upon the chest. The floor appeared bloody, and partly wiped or mopped; we continued about a minute, and left every thing as we found it. It was about two o'clock in the afternoon when we went there. > > Mr. Poole again examined by the CHIEF JUSTICE - I went there about ten o'clock in the morning. > > Robert Roberts in continuation - We remained in the house about two minutes, merely looked at the body, and left every thing as they were. I was at the house when the coroner was there the next day (Wednesday the 6th.); I saw the constable open a bundle. It was in the room where the deceased lay, near the top of the stairs, upon a stool, and not in the least concealed. > > Edward Carreg, Esq. - I am a coroner for Carnarvonshire. I was brought up a surgeon, but don't now practice. On Wednesday, the 5th of August, I went to the late Mr. Manning's house, about 12 o'clock. I think I went alone, or with another person, before the jury assembled. I saw the body upon the bed; and there was a sheet thrown over it. I did not examine the wounds, but desired the surgeons to do it. (Produces a razor.) I found this upon a table in the room. I do not know whether I took it, or the constable gave it me. > > By JUDGE KENRICK - I did not examine the body minutely, but looked cursorily over it. I do not know whether there was a pillow upon the bed or not. > > John Jonathan - I am constable of Bangor; I met Mrs. Manning on the road on Tuesday morning, the 5th instant, about six o'clock in the morning; she was walking towards Carnarvon; I met her near Tros Carrol, about half a mile from Bangor; she asked me if the mail has passed me? I said no, and she went on. I went to Mr. Manning's house on Wednesday, the next day, about 10 o'clock: I had summoned the Jury; I went to the bedroom of the deceased, and saw the body; the coroner desired me to search the room; I found a bundle of clothes upon a stool, at the top of the stairs; it was not at all concealed, and any body who went in might see it; it was covered with a blanket; had in it two sheets, two pillow-cases, a pillow, a chemise, a shirt, a man's and a woman's night cap, and a pair of white stockings; some of them were a good deal blooded; they were wet, some with blood, and some with water; I saw a razor in Dr. Carreg's hand; there I saw it first. I have got the clothes with me;! > they are now in the same state as I found them, except being dried; there is a small cut upon the pillow-case (produces it and the pillow); the pillow-case is very thin, and it may be a tear; the pillow is not cut, but the shirt is; I am not certain whether it is a cut or a tear (produces it). > > Chief Justice RAINE - It evidently is torn. > > Mr. Thomas Roberts - I am a surgeon at Bangor, and attended to examine the body of Mr. Manning, about two or three o'clock on the 6th inst. I found three wounds, two on the throat, and one from the right ear along the lower jaw to the chin; the wounds appeared to be made with a sharp instrument. The larger wound was enough to cause death, it being from near the right ear to about three inches beyond the left; from my observations I think that the large one was not cut first - that it was likely to produce immediate death. Neither of the wounds intersected each other, but were three distinct wounds. It occurred to me at the time that the large wound began from the right to the left, because I could hardly think a man committing suicide would begin so far back as three inches behind the ear. If it was so cut, it must have been done with the left hand. If it was done by any other person, it might begin at the right. > > Cross-examined by MR. BLACKBURN - The larger wound in my opinion, produced death in about half a minute. It was impossible a man could moan for ten minutes after receiving such a wound. The two small wounds appeared to be done first. If the larger wound was done by any body else, I do not think the deceased could in the least struggle after it was done. I should think the deceased, if alarmed with the two first small wounds, would have been able to struggle and resist. I can't say whether his arm was particularly muscular. He was a man not likely to be vanquished by the prisoner, after receiving the first two wounds. > > By the CHIEF JUSTICE - Supposing a man desperately bent upon self-destruction, with a razor or any sharp instrument, could he make the dreadful wound; and might he do it with the left hand assisted with the right? - I am clearly of the opinion that he might do it with the left hand alone; there were three small wounds on the left hand, two on the back, and one on the little finger. > > Mr. Hugh Jones, and another surgeon who examined the body, gave evidence similar. The last witness said he had known the deceased for some time past, and always considered him as a person of insane mind. > > Mr. ATTORNEY-GENERAL - I have closed the case for the Crown. > > Mr. PALMER, for the prisoner - Does your Lordship think that there has been sufficient evidence to put the prisoner upon her defence? > > CHIEF JUSTICE - What do you say, Mr. Attorney? > > ATTORNEY-GENERAL - My Lord, I am in this case only public prosecutor, performing a painful duty, and I can have no other wish than that justice may be done; I must therefore leave the case in your Lordship's hands. > > Mr. PALMER - My Lord, I, on the part of the prisoner, have no desire whatever to stop this case short, and on her part I court the closest investigation. > > CHIEF JUSTICE to the Attorney-General - From your opening, Mr. Attorney, which does you infinite honour (and which, if I shall have occasion to address the jury, I shall endeavour to repeat word for word), I expected the case would end as it has. > > Mr. PALMER (addressing himself to the jury.) - Gentlemen, are you or are you not fully satisfied of the prisoner's innocence, or do you wish to hear evidence on her behalf? If you are not satisfied, I, on the part of the prisoner, am prepared to enter into the fullest defence. > > (....................................Verdict to be announced....................................) > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gwynedd Family History Society > 36 Y Wern Y Felinheli, Gwynedd LL56 4TXX > [email protected] or [email protected] > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

I forgot, my great great grandmother was Eliza Catherine Roberts, b. Llandegai, father Hugh Roberts, b. Llanllechid. Family is still in Llanllechid. Arlene Berta > Just wondering if anyone can help at all with a certain brick wall of > mine? > > Robert Thomas (a joiner) was marrried to Catherine Roberts on 15th May > 1840. > Robert was a widow and resident of Dwygyfylchi. He gives his father as > being > Thomas Williams, a joiner. (i believe this to be my first encounter with > patrynomics) On subsequent census returns he gives his birthplace as > llanllechid. > Robert was married three times in total. I do not know the name of his > first > wife but his third was Margaret ? of llansantffriad, Denbighshire. (he > outlived > her too!) > > i have looked at the baptisms register for llanllechid during arecent > visit > to Caernarfon R.O without success. Could the llnallechid reference > indicate the > llanllechid parish and if so, how many possible settlements would i be > looking at needing to examine registers for? > > If anyone can help here, or better still point my Robert out to me I would > be > enternally grateful. > > Yours hopefully......... > Glyn > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru The National Library of Wales. Aberystwyth. > www.llgc.org.uk/ > [email protected] > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >