Hi, Enumeration District No. 16 (R.G. 12/4661. Folios 89 - 93) of the 1891 census for the Parish of Llanbeblig has now been completed, and can be found in the Census Section at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/ Regards, Keith.

Further to the earlier pleas for help: - Nellie 1 - born June qtr 1904 and died in June qtr 1905. This must be the one buried in Aberfraw (?) but not 3 weeks old more like 1 year. Nellie 2 - born December 1905 and died in USA in 1922. Both ELLEN. I found my old notes from 3 years ago! The confusion appears to stem from the fact that Nellie 1 is recorded as being 3 weeks old on the gravestone??? Another error made by whoever instructed the Mason or perhaps the Mason couldn't count? I would still like to be able to have the burial records, if possible; is there any chance? Richard Parsons -----Original Message----- From: Richard Parsons [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 15 May 2004 09:10 To: [email protected] Subject: [CAE] Re - Aberfraw Burial Sorry Listers, I am confused now, the second 'Nellie' was born 1905 the one in the grave is said to have died in 1906. Which is why I would like to have clarified it. Instead I seem to have totally confused matters, myself included. Richard --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.682 / Virus Database: 444 - Release Date: 11/05/2004 ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== Gwynedd Family History Society 36 Y Wern Y Felinheli, Gwynedd LL56 4TXX [email protected] or [email protected] ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.682 / Virus Database: 444 - Release Date: 11/05/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.682 / Virus Database: 444 - Release Date: 11/05/2004

Richard, Are you sure about the date on the gravestone? This would make Nellie born 1905 mostly likely the child died 1906. You should check the BMD's for a death in 1906. Are you close to a Family Records Center or a County Records Center? Arlene Berta Folsom, CA Forsyth,Hughes, Roberts, Williams, Griffith (s)AGY to CAE > Sorry Listers, > I am confused now, the second 'Nellie' was born 1905 the one in the grave > is > said to have died in 1906. > Which is why I would like to have clarified it. > Instead I seem to have totally confused matters, myself included. > Richard > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.682 / Virus Database: 444 - Release Date: 11/05/2004 > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gwynedd Family History Society > 36 Y Wern Y Felinheli, Gwynedd LL56 4TXX > [email protected] or [email protected] > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >

Hi, There seems to be something happening at last about the state of Llanbeblig Churchyard. An article from a local newspaper has been added at the end of the original piece, so let's hope that something finally gets done. http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/llanbeblig.html Regards, Keith.

Your wife's decendant would have worked in the Dry Dock at Y Felinheli (formerly Port Dinorwic). This was an important Slate Exporting Port in the 19. and early 20. centuries. Shipbuilding also went on there up to the end of the former century. As a point of interest the largest wooden barque ever built in N. Wales was built there in 1878. It was the ORDOVIC. 800 tons, The builders being Rees Jones and Son. The Rev. Rees Jones was also minister of Bryn Menai Chapel (C.M.) at one time and had also, in his younger days, been a ship builder at Y BERMO (Barmouth). If, as you say O'Rouke was between trips, this was a likely place for him to obtain temporary emplyment. Hope this will of help to you. Regards, T. Meirion Hughes. Editor, www.Cofis-dre-ar-y-we.co.uk www.Cofis.co.ik ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Parsons" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 9:05 AM Subject: [CAE] Foundry in Port Dinorwic? > Good morning Listers, > My name is Richard Parsons and I am looking for assistance with the research > of my Wife's Family in the above area ie Port Dinorwic. > John O'ROURKE, my wife's grandfather, was a merchant seaman but in 1913 he > had a job as "Boiler cleaner in Foundry". This must have been an occupation > he had between trips (?). > > What I would like to know is can anyone enlighten me as to what foundry/ies > would have been in the vicinity of Port Dinorwic at that time please? > Richard Parsons > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.682 / Virus Database: 444 - Release Date: 11/05/2004 > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Rhagorol - online Gwynedd Archive > http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/adrannau/addysg/archifau/Rhagorol/cgi-bin/browse_a rchive.pl > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Good morning Listers, My name is Richard Parsons and I am looking for assistance with the research of my Wife’s Family in the above area ie Port Dinorwic. John O’ROURKE, my wife’s grandfather, was a merchant seaman but in 1913 he had a job as “Boiler cleaner in Foundry”. This must have been an occupation he had between trips (?). What I would like to know is can anyone enlighten me as to what foundry/ies would have been in the vicinity of Port Dinorwic at that time please? Richard Parsons --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.682 / Virus Database: 444 - Release Date: 11/05/2004

David, I checked my Bartholomew 1893 Gazetteer of the British Isles. It's spelled Ysceifiog- a parish in Flintshire, 4 miles SW of Holywell, 6077 acres, population 1257. Garneddwen, hamlet, Ysceifiog parish, in county and 5 1/2 miles SW of Flint. Hopes this helps. Arlene Berta > Thomas, > I have studied your reply regarding the enumerators for the > census of 1881, 1891, and 1901. I was rather puzzled to understand if you > were implying that it was the same enumerator for each census over the > twenty year period, or that on three occasions the enumerators were unable > to give the correct spelling. > I was also surprised to see your comment that knowing nothing of the Welsh > language was quite common in Caernarfonshire in those days. I would have > thought that it was a prime requirement to have some knowledge of Welsh to > be able to extract census information from the many who were not > bilingual. > My main area of research is in the Garneddwen township of Ysceifiog, in > Flintshire. In the years from 1550 to 1920 I have found thirty five > variations for spelling Ysceifiog, and eleven for Garneddwen. All of these > are from documents produced in Wales, and include legal documents, wills > etc. As far as I am aware all were written by people from North Wales. > > David Lister. > > > Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Hughes" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 11:20 PM > Subject: Re: [CAE] Place Name > > >> Hi Alun, >> >> It is quite obvious to me that the enumerator knew nothing at all about > the >> Welsh Language, which was quite common in those days. It was custom to >> employ someone who was at least semi literate in the English Language >> immaterial as to whether he had any knowledge of Welsh. In this case I > would >> imagine that the address should read PEN Y BRAICH, which does not > translate >> well and it was never meant to, but the literal translation is HEAD (or > TOP) >> OF THE ARM. >> >> In Caernarfonshire it is likely that there are several farms/small > holdings >> named PEN Y BRAICH and it would help if you were to indicate the area >> in >> Caernarfonshire your grandparents lived, otherwise you are likely to be > sent >> on wild goose chases by well meaning individuals. >> >> Regards, > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >

Hi List, Could some really kind person look up a marriage certificate for me at Pwllheli. :-)) I would like to know what there is on the cert. DAVID ROBERTS Llanfihangel m ANN HUGHES born Nevin I'm hoping this is 'my Ann' Father of DAVID should be EVAN ROBERTS. It is the brides family that I am interested in.The poor lady hasn't a family name Marriage Dec.1875 volume 11b page 813 Thanking you in Anticipation Kathy Northants ROBERTS,EDWARDS,WILLIAMS, JONES Caernarvonshire

Hi, Transcripts of the 1821 Presentments of Nuisances for the Town of Carnarvon are now ready. The latest update contains five secondary presentments, which are labelled 1821b to 1821f. They can be found in the Miscellaneous Section at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/ Regards, Keith.

Thomas, I have studied your reply regarding the enumerators for the census of 1881, 1891, and 1901. I was rather puzzled to understand if you were implying that it was the same enumerator for each census over the twenty year period, or that on three occasions the enumerators were unable to give the correct spelling. I was also surprised to see your comment that knowing nothing of the Welsh language was quite common in Caernarfonshire in those days. I would have thought that it was a prime requirement to have some knowledge of Welsh to be able to extract census information from the many who were not bilingual. My main area of research is in the Garneddwen township of Ysceifiog, in Flintshire. In the years from 1550 to 1920 I have found thirty five variations for spelling Ysceifiog, and eleven for Garneddwen. All of these are from documents produced in Wales, and include legal documents, wills etc. As far as I am aware all were written by people from North Wales. David Lister. Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Hughes" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [CAE] Place Name > Hi Alun, > > It is quite obvious to me that the enumerator knew nothing at all about the > Welsh Language, which was quite common in those days. It was custom to > employ someone who was at least semi literate in the English Language > immaterial as to whether he had any knowledge of Welsh. In this case I would > imagine that the address should read PEN Y BRAICH, which does not translate > well and it was never meant to, but the literal translation is HEAD (or TOP) > OF THE ARM. > > In Caernarfonshire it is likely that there are several farms/small holdings > named PEN Y BRAICH and it would help if you were to indicate the area in > Caernarfonshire your grandparents lived, otherwise you are likely to be sent > on wild goose chases by well meaning individuals. > > Regards,

Good evening. I am still trying to locate an Elizabeth Ann Owens aged 7yrs-9yrs in the 1891 censusThought the family she might be living with either Morris Owen[ father or grandfather] or maybe a Pritchard familyI n fact any family who has a Elizabeth Ann of the correct yrs. Thankyou Alun.

I would have thought that a simple transcription error could easily turn Penbraich into Pentraich. As for Pen Y Braich, Pencaerau in Llyn is variously Pencaerau, Penycaerau, Pen y Caerau and variations on that theme. Maybe the error occured in 1901 by the enumerator who, as TM Hughes says, may not have been Welsh or Welsh-speaking. Ian London SW9 PS For London members, much better than the SOG library for reference texts for Wales is the library of the International Historical Research Society at Senate House, University of London, Bloomsbury. Highly recommended. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo

Hi Alun, It is quite obvious to me that the enumerator knew nothing at all about the Welsh Language, which was quite common in those days. It was custom to employ someone who was at least semi literate in the English Language immaterial as to whether he had any knowledge of Welsh. In this case I would imagine that the address should read PEN Y BRAICH, which does not translate well and it was never meant to, but the literal translation is HEAD (or TOP) OF THE ARM. In Caernarfonshire it is likely that there are several farms/small holdings named PEN Y BRAICH and it would help if you were to indicate the area in Caernarfonshire your grandparents lived, otherwise you are likely to be sent on wild goose chases by well meaning individuals. Regards, . T Meirion Hughes. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 9:22 PM Subject: [CAE] Place Name > Name Request . I have from the census the name of my grandparents address > [a] Penny-Y-Braich in the 1881 census > [b] Peny-Y-Braich in the 1891 census > [c] Pentraich in the 1901 census > Does everyone agree that these three places are the same. > Thank you Alun. > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Would Cwm Penmachno be listed under Penmachno in the 1901 census? It's a school, so I imagine it's in Penmachno. It's located 6 miles SW of Llanrwst in the 1893 Gazetteer. Good luck, Arlene Berta Not sure it's JUST a school... I think it's a part of Penmachno. SUSAN

Name Request . I have from the census the name of my grandparents address [a] Penny-Y-Braich in the 1881 census [b] Peny-Y-Braich in the 1891 census [c] Pentraich in the 1901 census Does everyone agree that these three places are the same. Thank you Alun.

Hi, Transcripts of the 1829 & 1832 Presentments of Nuisances for the Town of Carnarvon are now ready and can be found in the Miscellaneous Section at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/ Regards, Keith.

It's a school, so I imagine it's in Penmachno. It's located 6 miles SW of Llanrwst in the 1893 Gazetteer. Good luck, Arlene Berta > Would Cwm Penmachno be listed under Penmachno in the 1901 census? > > > > Eirian Evans > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru The National Library of Wales. Aberystwyth. > www.llgc.org.uk/ > [email protected] > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >

Would Cwm Penmachno be listed under Penmachno in the 1901 census? Eirian Evans

Hi Glyn, I hope this is what you're looking for :-) 1851. HO107/2519 Folio 27. Page 9 38. Tyddyn Du. Richard Jones, Head, Married, age 55, Farmer of 22 acres employing 4 men, born Dwygyfylchi. Gwen Jones, Wife, Married, age 54, born Capel Garmon, Denbigh. John Jones, Son, Unmarried, age 30, Farmer's son, born Dwygyfylchi. William Jones, Son, Unmarried, age 21, Farmer's son, born Dwygyfylchi. Elinor Jones, Daughter, Unmarried, age 19, Farmer's Daughter, born Dwygyfylchi. Richard Jones, Son, Unmarried, age 17, Farmer's son, born Dwygyfylchi. Robert Jones, Son, Unmarried, age 13, Scholar, born Dwygyfylchi. Just a thought, but could Jane's husband Thomas be Richard & Gwen's son? That could account for Jane's address at marriage being Tyddyn Du. I did check the 1841 Census as well, but a large part of it was unreadable, and I couldn't find Tyddyn Du on the bits that I could read. Sorry! Regards, Keith. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 10:49 PM Subject: [CAE] Wrong Jane Williams, Help! > I wonder if any kind listers could help me out with an error in my tree which > came to light on Saturday. > > Jane Williams married Thomas Jones on Nov 17 1837 in Dwygyfylchi. The > daughter of Robert Williams, a labourer, she is given as being resident of Tyddyn Du. > (Her first and second children with Thomas, Richard and Jane are also > recorded as being born at Tyddyn Du in 1838 and 1839 respectively. The third child, > Thomas was born at Treforis as were all subsequent children. > > Census returns for the family indicate Jane Williams to be born in Caerhun > approximately 1817. I therefore naturally searched the Caerhun Bapstism Register > and duly found a Jane, daughter of Robert and Ellin of Tyddyn Du baptised on > 23 August 1816. Bingo I thought! I then searched through the burial register > and found Robert and Ellins' burials. I also found the family on the 1841 and > 1851 census. Armed with this information I paid a visit to the churchyard of > Caerhun on saturday and found their gravestone and here comes my problem. The > stone also records the death of a child, Elen, aged 4 to parents Jane and John > Roberts, also of Tyddyn Du. I have a very strong feeling that this is the Jane > I found in the Register of Baptisms..........drat! > I quickly pulled out my notes and re-read them.......the 1851 census records > a Jane, daughter, living with the family, aged 30 and married.....at the same > time as "my" Jane had already had 6 children by Thomas, with no. 7 on the way > and had been firmly ensconssed at Treforis for some years! Definately not the > right family then! > I was wrestling this in my head all last night until, whilst looking on the > old maps site, i noticed their to be a Tyddyn Du in between Dwygyfylchi and > Penmaenmawr - Salvation? but also a problem.....I can't near Llandudno library or > any other repository of the 1841 or 1851 census for the area for at least 4 > weeks - (I will go gaga!) - and therefore, after much long winded preamble, > would anyone who has access to either of these census', be so good as to have a > look for afore said Tyddyn Du in Dwygyfylchi Parish and let me know who lives > their....you may just stop me going bald with worry! > > many, many thanks in anticipation..... > Glyn > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi, Enumeration District No. 1 (R.G. 12/4660. Folios 3 - 17) of the 1891 census for the Parish of Llanbeblig has now been completed, and can be found in the Census Section at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/ Regards, Keith.