Hi, The Presentments of Nuisances for 1828 have now been started. There are two draft presentments, 1828b & 1828c, ready tonight. These can be found in the Miscellaneous Section at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/ Regards, Keith.

Dear Ian, Thanks for that. I'll have to ask my friend, another Wendy Jones about Tomos the Islandman. Her grandparents looked after the lighthouse there. I always think there's something like Irish people in the people from Pen Llyn. Perhaps the agriculture, going with the seasons, rather than the quarries, going with the clock..Wendy Jones ----- Original Message ----- From: "I Thompson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 10:30 AM Subject: [CAE] Printing Press > A uselful URL for anyone in NW Wales is the Carreg Gwalch Press at > http://www.carreg-gwalch.co.uk > > I recently bought their titles "LLyn" by Elfed Gruffydd and "Tomos the > Islandman" by Jennie Jones, both of which I would heartily recommend. The > island in question is Bardsey (Enlli) and the second book is a fascinating > and funny read for an idea of island (and, I suppose, to some extent > mainland life) around the turn of the 20th century. > > Ian > London SW9 > > _________________________________________________________________ > It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

A uselful URL for anyone in NW Wales is the Carreg Gwalch Press at http://www.carreg-gwalch.co.uk I recently bought their titles "LLyn" by Elfed Gruffydd and "Tomos the Islandman" by Jennie Jones, both of which I would heartily recommend. The island in question is Bardsey (Enlli) and the second book is a fascinating and funny read for an idea of island (and, I suppose, to some extent mainland life) around the turn of the 20th century. Ian London SW9 _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Hi, Just to recap. My first impression was that this name should be CILCENNIN, Cennin meaning leeks, but then it was pointed out that the name was actually CILCENNIS. In the meantime Allen Powell phoned the owner of the farm named so, but was told that the spelling was CILCENNUS which does make a difference. This now makes sense to a farmer and would translate as RETREAT OF THE SCALY CHAFF or SCALY CHAFF RETREAT. CIL meaning RETREAT, US meaning CHAFF and CEN meaning SCALE or SCURF. Now when a syllable is added to the word CEN it necessitates the doubling of the letter N as in CENNU (To Scale) or CENNOG (Scaly), therefore as in all the other names of what are called "townships" CILCENNUS makes sense in Welsh. Looking up these words in a reputable Welsh dictionary will confirm this. The trouble here is that a non Welsh speaker cannot pronounce the Welsh U and to his ear both CILCENNIS and CILCENNUS sound the same, which they are not. Regards, T. Meirion Hughes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Thomas" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [CAE] Cilcennis > Something about the name Cilcennis, in the original query, drew my > attention. Cilcennis is the name of an ancient town previously in > Denbighshire and, now, in Conwy, Caernarfonshire, Wales. On searching the > internet, a particular site drew my attention to a church that seemed > "eerily familiar", though I have never visited the UK. > > "The ancient parish of Llanrwst was of great extent. It comprised the > township of Gwydir, in Caernarfonshire; and a number of townships in > Denbighshire. These townships were "Cilcennis", Tre'r Dre Isaf, Tre'r Dre > Uchaf, Garthgyfannedd, Mathebrwd, Tybrith Isaf, Tybrith Uchaf, and Garth > Garmon. > > The church was founded in the sixth century by St. Grwst, and has been on > its present site since the thirteenth century. It was restored in 1884. The > church was in Denbighshire until 1974; and in Gwynedd from 1974 until 1996. > > It is now in Conwy County Borough." > > REFERENCE : www.clwydfhs.org.uk/churches/Llanrwst/ > > So, indeed, this town's name may have some connection with 6th century Saint > Grwst. Is there any research & documentation available on Celtic St. Grwst? > Could this be the Saint's home or final resting place {i.e.: Monk's > Retreat}? > > Grwst of the 6th century was given Sainthood in the 7th century by the > Catholic Church and the Welsh holiday of December 1st, St. Grwst's Feastday, > serves his remembrance. Per Catholic calendar, St. Grwst was a Welsh saint > honored at Llanrwst, Clwyd, Wales. > > Historically, how does "Clwyd" relate with Denbighshire in the 7th Century? > And, does the town of Cilcennis still exist today? > > > Sam Thomas > Roswell, Georgia > 770-643-8880 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Berwyn Williams" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 9:11 AM > Subject: [CAE] Re:Cilcennis > > > > Hellos listers > > Is it possible that Cilcennis is the Welsh parallel of Kilenny, Kildrummy, > > Kildonan et alia; place names in Ireland and Scotland derived from Gaelic. > > The word Kil indicating a cell or retreat of a monk of the old Celtic > > christian church. My Welsh Dictionary gives the meaning of Cil as corner > or > > retreat. If this is correct, then Cennis may have been particular > religous > > individual. > > Berwyn > > Aberdeenshire > > [email protected] > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Allen Powell" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 12:01 AM > > Subject: Re: re:[CAE]1841 census > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Thomas Hughes" PM > > > Subject: Re: re:[CAE]1841 census > > > > > > > > > . . . . . . . . . . .CILCENNIS is the only one that is unclear to me > and > > > even though another person informs us that there is such a place it > makes > > no > > > sense in Welsh. . . . . . . . That is why it is so important that > > > researchers do take care with the spellings. > > > > > > 1. I'm sure the vast majority of researchers do take care with their > > > spellings - it was the original recorder who made the mistakes, as > anyone > > > who has done any transcribing will confirm ! > > > 2. The present spelling is CILCENNUS; I spoke to the present owners of > the > > > farm this evening. Their daughter did some research some years ago and > > found > > > a record in Latin in the national Library at Aberystwyth which mentioned > > the > > > name, but she failed to find anyone who could translate it ! Another > > > researcher had found the name associated with a 'Court', but had not > > managed > > > to get any further. > > > All the best, > > > Allen (Criccieth). > > > > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > > > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > > English are welcome > > > > > > ============================== > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > http://www.archiveshub.ac.uk/inst/uwbangor.shtml > > Bangor University Archives > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > http://www.archiveshub.ac.uk/inst/uwbangor.shtml > Bangor University Archives > > ============================== > You can manage your RootsWeb-Review subscription from > http://newsletters.rootsweb.com/ > >

Hellos listers Is it possible that Cilcennis is the Welsh parallel of Kilenny, Kildrummy, Kildonan et alia; place names in Ireland and Scotland derived from Gaelic. The word Kil indicating a cell or retreat of a monk of the old Celtic christian church. My Welsh Dictionary gives the meaning of Cil as corner or retreat. If this is correct, then Cennis may have been particular religous individual. Berwyn Aberdeenshire [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Powell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 12:01 AM Subject: Re: re:[CAE]1841 census > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Hughes" PM > Subject: Re: re:[CAE]1841 census > > > . . . . . . . . . . .CILCENNIS is the only one that is unclear to me and > even though another person informs us that there is such a place it makes no > sense in Welsh. . . . . . . . That is why it is so important that > researchers do take care with the spellings. > > 1. I'm sure the vast majority of researchers do take care with their > spellings - it was the original recorder who made the mistakes, as anyone > who has done any transcribing will confirm ! > 2. The present spelling is CILCENNUS; I spoke to the present owners of the > farm this evening. Their daughter did some research some years ago and found > a record in Latin in the national Library at Aberystwyth which mentioned the > name, but she failed to find anyone who could translate it ! Another > researcher had found the name associated with a 'Court', but had not managed > to get any further. > All the best, > Allen (Criccieth). > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Hi Allen, Many thanks for the explanation. I do not think that the change of vowel from I to U makes any difference in this instance and I agree entirely that many words have been changed over the years due to the ignorance of the language by careless recorders. The CILCENN- is definitely Welsh in its origin and I do not feel that this has any Latin connection, CIL as in CIL ISAF or CIL UCHAF which are common names and the NN is also something that is peculiar to the Welsh Language and is a source of worry to many learners i.e. when to double the N and when not to. ANNIBYNNWR and ANNIBYNWYR {Independant(s)} being prime examples (The W in the first word being a vowel and the W in the second being a semi consonant). On the other hand there is a Welsh word CENNU which is a verb meaning To Scale or To Scurf and the adjective CENNOG meaning scaly or scurfy, but this again would not make sense. I find the suggestion re something assosciated with "COURT" interesting. The Welsh Word for Court is LLYS and the US sound in CILCENNUS is exactly the same as the YS in in LLYS. I have even seen the word for Will (EWYLLYS) incorrectly spelt with a U in the last syllable. The permutations of what has gone wrong seem unending. Many thanks for your interest. Regards, Meirion ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Powell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 12:01 AM Subject: Re: re:[CAE]1841 census > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Hughes" PM > Subject: Re: re:[CAE]1841 census > > > . . . . . . . . . . .CILCENNIS is the only one that is unclear to me and > even though another person informs us that there is such a place it makes no > sense in Welsh. . . . . . . . That is why it is so important that > researchers do take care with the spellings. > > 1. I'm sure the vast majority of researchers do take care with their > spellings - it was the original recorder who made the mistakes, as anyone > who has done any transcribing will confirm ! > 2. The present spelling is CILCENNUS; I spoke to the present owners of the > farm this evening. Their daughter did some research some years ago and found > a record in Latin in the national Library at Aberystwyth which mentioned the > name, but she failed to find anyone who could translate it ! Another > researcher had found the name associated with a 'Court', but had not managed > to get any further. > All the best, > Allen (Criccieth). > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Something about the name Cilcennis, in the original query, drew my attention. Cilcennis is the name of an ancient town previously in Denbighshire and, now, in Conwy, Caernarfonshire, Wales. On searching the internet, a particular site drew my attention to a church that seemed "eerily familiar", though I have never visited the UK. "The ancient parish of Llanrwst was of great extent. It comprised the township of Gwydir, in Caernarfonshire; and a number of townships in Denbighshire. These townships were "Cilcennis", Tre'r Dre Isaf, Tre'r Dre Uchaf, Garthgyfannedd, Mathebrwd, Tybrith Isaf, Tybrith Uchaf, and Garth Garmon. The church was founded in the sixth century by St. Grwst, and has been on its present site since the thirteenth century. It was restored in 1884. The church was in Denbighshire until 1974; and in Gwynedd from 1974 until 1996. It is now in Conwy County Borough." REFERENCE : www.clwydfhs.org.uk/churches/Llanrwst/ So, indeed, this town's name may have some connection with 6th century Saint Grwst. Is there any research & documentation available on Celtic St. Grwst? Could this be the Saint's home or final resting place {i.e.: Monk's Retreat}? Grwst of the 6th century was given Sainthood in the 7th century by the Catholic Church and the Welsh holiday of December 1st, St. Grwst's Feastday, serves his remembrance. Per Catholic calendar, St. Grwst was a Welsh saint honored at Llanrwst, Clwyd, Wales. Historically, how does "Clwyd" relate with Denbighshire in the 7th Century? And, does the town of Cilcennis still exist today? Sam Thomas Roswell, Georgia 770-643-8880 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berwyn Williams" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 9:11 AM Subject: [CAE] Re:Cilcennis > Hellos listers > Is it possible that Cilcennis is the Welsh parallel of Kilenny, Kildrummy, > Kildonan et alia; place names in Ireland and Scotland derived from Gaelic. > The word Kil indicating a cell or retreat of a monk of the old Celtic > christian church. My Welsh Dictionary gives the meaning of Cil as corner or > retreat. If this is correct, then Cennis may have been particular religous > individual. > Berwyn > Aberdeenshire > [email protected] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Allen Powell" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 12:01 AM > Subject: Re: re:[CAE]1841 census > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Thomas Hughes" PM > > Subject: Re: re:[CAE]1841 census > > > > > > . . . . . . . . . . .CILCENNIS is the only one that is unclear to me and > > even though another person informs us that there is such a place it makes > no > > sense in Welsh. . . . . . . . That is why it is so important that > > researchers do take care with the spellings. > > > > 1. I'm sure the vast majority of researchers do take care with their > > spellings - it was the original recorder who made the mistakes, as anyone > > who has done any transcribing will confirm ! > > 2. The present spelling is CILCENNUS; I spoke to the present owners of the > > farm this evening. Their daughter did some research some years ago and > found > > a record in Latin in the national Library at Aberystwyth which mentioned > the > > name, but she failed to find anyone who could translate it ! Another > > researcher had found the name associated with a 'Court', but had not > managed > > to get any further. > > All the best, > > Allen (Criccieth). > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > English are welcome > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > http://www.archiveshub.ac.uk/inst/uwbangor.shtml > Bangor University Archives > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Hughes" PM Subject: Re: re:[CAE]1841 census . . . . . . . . . . .CILCENNIS is the only one that is unclear to me and even though another person informs us that there is such a place it makes no sense in Welsh. . . . . . . . That is why it is so important that researchers do take care with the spellings. 1. I'm sure the vast majority of researchers do take care with their spellings - it was the original recorder who made the mistakes, as anyone who has done any transcribing will confirm ! 2. The present spelling is CILCENNUS; I spoke to the present owners of the farm this evening. Their daughter did some research some years ago and found a record in Latin in the national Library at Aberystwyth which mentioned the name, but she failed to find anyone who could translate it ! Another researcher had found the name associated with a 'Court', but had not managed to get any further. All the best, Allen (Criccieth).

Hi, Two new items today. The War Memorial: On the 60th. anniversary of the D-Day landings, an opportune moment to remember those from Carnarvon who fell in both World Wars. Some of the images are rather large and for those with a dial-up connection the images will take a while to download. Morgan Lloyd: On Wednesday 2nd. of June, the Morgan Lloyd Vaults was severely damaged by fire. A short report, and a very brief history!! Both of these can be found in the Miscellaneous Section at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsccaer/ Regards, Keith.

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Hi Jenn, Yes, that's where I got the date from and so assumed it was them. Would you know how to order certificates without doing that change to sterling thing? That is an expensive way to go. Are there any sites that you could order by credit card??? Thanks so much for your time & look-ups. I really appreciate it! Thanks Jane Ellen ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [CAE] Lloyd, from Wales to the U.S.A. > Jane, > Did find a marriage of a Mary Hughes to Richard Lloyd in Llanwrst in Sept. > 1882 in the free bmd is that what you had? > > Surname First name(s) District Vol Page > Marriages Sep 1882 > > Hughes Mary Llanrwst 11b465 > Lloyd Richard Llanrwst 11b465 > > Found a birth of Owen Robert Lloyd but it was in 1883. > > Jennifer > > In a message dated 6/3/2004 3:05:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > Hi Jenn, > > Thank you so much for checking, but this isn't my Lloyds. > Richard and Mary (my greatgrandparents) were married in Wales and came here > about 1885 with atleast one child, Owen, under a year old at the time. > They resided in Ashley, Pa. and Richard died 1895, the result of a coal mine > accident. Mary lived in in Ashley and then in Wilkes-Barre, until she died. > > I do not know where they came from for sure (just that it was Wales) as per > the census info for PA. I found some info and think they were married > in Llanwrst, but not sure if it's them. > > So what I need is anything at all but mostly Wales info. > > Jane Ellen > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [CAE] Lloyd, from Wales to the U.S.A. > > > > HIello Jane, > > > > I found a Richard 59, Mary 56 and son James 21 in the 1920 US census, in > PA.v > > Emigrated 1870 and 1885. Don't fret the ages being off, they often were in > > the censuses. Richard is a coal miner. I'll keep looking. Do you know if > they > > were married before they came over? any idea when they came over? > > > > LLOYD, RICHARD (1920 U.S. Census) > > Pennsylvania , LUZERNE, WD-7 EDWARDSVILLE, Age 59, Male, Race: White, > > Born: WALE > > Series: T625 Roll: 1591 Page: 217 > > > > Jenn > > > > . n a message dated 6/2/2004 5:50:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Hello, > > > > Am looking for Richard Lloyd, born approximately 1860 and married > > Mary Hughes, also born 1860(?). I believe they were married in Llanwrst. > > I know they definitely ended up in the USA, Ashley, Pennsylvania. > > > > If anyone can help in any way at all, I would sincerely appreciate it. > > > > Thank you > > Jane Ellen > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > PeoplePC Online > > A better way to Internet > > http://www.peoplepc.com > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > > English are welcome > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > http://www.welshmariners.org.uk/ > > Morwyr Cymru Welsh Mariners > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Rhagorol - online Gwynedd Archive > http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/adrannau/addysg/archifau/Rhagorol/cgi-bin/browse_archive.pl > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Thank you, again! ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [CAE] Lloyd, from Wales to the U.S.A. > Jane Ellen, > Don't know if you have this, but here she is in the 1910 says she's 60 > however, but everything else seems to match. She has some grandchildren. > > Mary Head 60 wid 10 births/ 5living Emig'd 1885 Washwoman private > family > Mary (Gallagher) dau 23 wid 2birtihs/2 living Works in stocking mill > Richard grandson 1 6/12 > Jennie dau 17 > Thomas son 15 Drive coal mine > William son 14 Doortender coal mine > Bertha granddaughter 5 > > Looks like the enunmerator got mixed up with Mary's age and Bertha's > birthplaces. > Will send image. > > Jennifer > > > > In a message dated 6/3/2004 3:05:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > Hi Jenn, > > Thank you so much for checking, but this isn't my Lloyds. > Richard and Mary (my greatgrandparents) were married in Wales and came here > about 1885 with atleast one child, Owen, under a year old at the time. > They resided in Ashley, Pa. and Richard died 1895, the result of a coal mine > accident. Mary lived in in Ashley and then in Wilkes-Barre, until she died. > > I do not know where they came from for sure (just that it was Wales) as per > the census info for PA. I found some info and think they were married > in Llanwrst, but not sure if it's them. > > So what I need is anything at all but mostly Wales info. > > Jane Ellen > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [CAE] Lloyd, from Wales to the U.S.A. > > > > HIello Jane, > > > > I found a Richard 59, Mary 56 and son James 21 in the 1920 US census, in > PA.v > > Emigrated 1870 and 1885. Don't fret the ages being off, they often were in > > the censuses. Richard is a coal miner. I'll keep looking. Do you know if > they > > were married before they came over? any idea when they came over? > > > > LLOYD, RICHARD (1920 U.S. Census) > > Pennsylvania , LUZERNE, WD-7 EDWARDSVILLE, Age 59, Male, Race: White, > > Born: WALE > > Series: T625 Roll: 1591 Page: 217 > > > > Jenn > > > > . n a message dated 6/2/2004 5:50:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > Hello, > > > > Am looking for Richard Lloyd, born approximately 1860 and married > > Mary Hughes, also born 1860(?). I believe they were married in Llanwrst. > > I know they definitely ended up in the USA, Ashley, Pennsylvania. > > > > If anyone can help in any way at all, I would sincerely appreciate it. > > > > Thank you > > Jane Ellen > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > PeoplePC Online > > A better way to Internet > > http://www.peoplepc.com > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > > English are welcome > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > > http://www.welshmariners.org.uk/ > > Morwyr Cymru Welsh Mariners > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930 > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Hello Hywyn, Wonderful!! one really knew where a body fitted into the scheme of things, (I must have missed the item or it appeared before I became a member) Sounds a bit like yards feet & inches, or rod, pole or perch. We often hear that Henry 8th had 6 wives but how often that there were only three million people in the country at the time. (I dislike the word subjects) A great many of us have traced our families to 1800, there were only NINE million people in the whole of England & Wales at that date. Makes one think !!! regards, Dorothy Lloyd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mymailbox" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 8:19 PM Subject: Re: re:[CAE]1841 census > Hello Dorothy > > Re what a constitutes a 'township' > > The following was in the Daily Mail in August 1995 and subsequently > disseminated to GFHS membersa via Gwreiddiau Gwynedd Roots. > It refers to what makes up a mediaeval ' Hundred' > > One homestead equals four acres (i.e four strips of land held by one farmer) > One shareland equalled four homestead ( 16 acres) > One holding equalled four sharelands ( 64 acres) > One vill( township) equalled four holdings ( 256 acres) > One Maenor (Manor) equalled four vills ( 1024 acres) > One Commote equalled 12 Maenor and 2 vills or 50 vills. > One hundred equalled 100 vills or 2 Commotes ( 25,600 acres) >

Is anyone researching PRITCHARD of Llanwryst? I would be interested if anyone has information on William PRITCHARD b 1824/25 Llanwryst. Married Elizabeth HUGHES b 1827/28 Llandudno. As far as I know they had one child Mary Elizabeth b Feb 1857 Llandudno. I have found William on the 1871 Census living in Mostyn St., Llandudno Occupation: Plasterer. I would like to try and find out Williams parents. Regards Karol Brisbane Australia --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.

Jane, Did find a marriage of a Mary Hughes to Richard Lloyd in Llanwrst in Sept. 1882 in the free bmd is that what you had? Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Marriages Sep 1882 Hughes Mary Llanrwst 11b465 Lloyd Richard Llanrwst 11b465 Found a birth of Owen Robert Lloyd but it was in 1883. Jennifer In a message dated 6/3/2004 3:05:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Jenn, Thank you so much for checking, but this isn't my Lloyds. Richard and Mary (my greatgrandparents) were married in Wales and came here about 1885 with atleast one child, Owen, under a year old at the time. They resided in Ashley, Pa. and Richard died 1895, the result of a coal mine accident. Mary lived in in Ashley and then in Wilkes-Barre, until she died. I do not know where they came from for sure (just that it was Wales) as per the census info for PA. I found some info and think they were married in Llanwrst, but not sure if it's them. So what I need is anything at all but mostly Wales info. Jane Ellen ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [CAE] Lloyd, from Wales to the U.S.A. > HIello Jane, > > I found a Richard 59, Mary 56 and son James 21 in the 1920 US census, in PA.v > Emigrated 1870 and 1885. Don't fret the ages being off, they often were in > the censuses. Richard is a coal miner. I'll keep looking. Do you know if they > were married before they came over? any idea when they came over? > > LLOYD, RICHARD (1920 U.S. Census) > Pennsylvania , LUZERNE, WD-7 EDWARDSVILLE, Age 59, Male, Race: White, > Born: WALE > Series: T625 Roll: 1591 Page: 217 > > Jenn > > . n a message dated 6/2/2004 5:50:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Hello, > > Am looking for Richard Lloyd, born approximately 1860 and married > Mary Hughes, also born 1860(?). I believe they were married in Llanwrst. > I know they definitely ended up in the USA, Ashley, Pennsylvania. > > If anyone can help in any way at all, I would sincerely appreciate it. > > Thank you > Jane Ellen > > > > ________________________________________ > PeoplePC Online > A better way to Internet > http://www.peoplepc.com > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > http://www.welshmariners.org.uk/ > Morwyr Cymru Welsh Mariners > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and English are welcome ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Jane Ellen, Here she is in the 1920 living with her dau Jennie who is married. Albert W. Brown head 20 marr PA PA PAWagon driver feed wagon Jennie " wife 26 marr PA WALES WALES Mary Lloyd mother in law 60 wid WAL WAL WAL Thomas H. brother in law 25 sin Laborer Coal miner PA WAL WAL Richard D. nephew 11 sing PA PA PA Will send image. Jenn In a message dated 6/3/2004 3:05:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Jenn, Thank you so much for checking, but this isn't my Lloyds. Richard and Mary (my greatgrandparents) were married in Wales and came here about 1885 with atleast one child, Owen, under a year old at the time. They resided in Ashley, Pa. and Richard died 1895, the result of a coal mine accident. Mary lived in in Ashley and then in Wilkes-Barre, until she died. I do not know where they came from for sure (just that it was Wales) as per the census info for PA. I found some info and think they were married in Llanwrst, but not sure if it's them. So what I need is anything at all but mostly Wales info. Jane Ellen ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [CAE] Lloyd, from Wales to the U.S.A. > HIello Jane, > > I found a Richard 59, Mary 56 and son James 21 in the 1920 US census, in PA.v > Emigrated 1870 and 1885. Don't fret the ages being off, they often were in > the censuses. Richard is a coal miner. I'll keep looking. Do you know if they > were married before they came over? any idea when they came over? > > LLOYD, RICHARD (1920 U.S. Census) > Pennsylvania , LUZERNE, WD-7 EDWARDSVILLE, Age 59, Male, Race: White, > Born: WALE > Series: T625 Roll: 1591 Page: 217 > > Jenn > > . n a message dated 6/2/2004 5:50:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Hello, > > Am looking for Richard Lloyd, born approximately 1860 and married > Mary Hughes, also born 1860(?). I believe they were married in Llanwrst. > I know they definitely ended up in the USA, Ashley, Pennsylvania. > > If anyone can help in any way at all, I would sincerely appreciate it. > > Thank you > Jane Ellen > > > > ________________________________________ > PeoplePC Online > A better way to Internet > http://www.peoplepc.com > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > http://www.welshmariners.org.uk/ > Morwyr Cymru Welsh Mariners > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and English are welcome ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930

Jane Ellen, Don't know if you have this, but here she is in the 1910 says she's 60 however, but everything else seems to match. She has some grandchildren. Mary Head 60 wid 10 births/ 5living Emig'd 1885 Washwoman private family Mary (Gallagher) dau 23 wid 2birtihs/2 living Works in stocking mill Richard grandson 1 6/12 Jennie dau 17 Thomas son 15 Drive coal mine William son 14 Doortender coal mine Bertha granddaughter 5 Looks like the enunmerator got mixed up with Mary's age and Bertha's birthplaces. Will send image. Jennifer In a message dated 6/3/2004 3:05:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Jenn, Thank you so much for checking, but this isn't my Lloyds. Richard and Mary (my greatgrandparents) were married in Wales and came here about 1885 with atleast one child, Owen, under a year old at the time. They resided in Ashley, Pa. and Richard died 1895, the result of a coal mine accident. Mary lived in in Ashley and then in Wilkes-Barre, until she died. I do not know where they came from for sure (just that it was Wales) as per the census info for PA. I found some info and think they were married in Llanwrst, but not sure if it's them. So what I need is anything at all but mostly Wales info. Jane Ellen ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [CAE] Lloyd, from Wales to the U.S.A. > HIello Jane, > > I found a Richard 59, Mary 56 and son James 21 in the 1920 US census, in PA.v > Emigrated 1870 and 1885. Don't fret the ages being off, they often were in > the censuses. Richard is a coal miner. I'll keep looking. Do you know if they > were married before they came over? any idea when they came over? > > LLOYD, RICHARD (1920 U.S. Census) > Pennsylvania , LUZERNE, WD-7 EDWARDSVILLE, Age 59, Male, Race: White, > Born: WALE > Series: T625 Roll: 1591 Page: 217 > > Jenn > > . n a message dated 6/2/2004 5:50:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Hello, > > Am looking for Richard Lloyd, born approximately 1860 and married > Mary Hughes, also born 1860(?). I believe they were married in Llanwrst. > I know they definitely ended up in the USA, Ashley, Pennsylvania. > > If anyone can help in any way at all, I would sincerely appreciate it. > > Thank you > Jane Ellen > > > > ________________________________________ > PeoplePC Online > A better way to Internet > http://www.peoplepc.com > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon > This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and > English are welcome > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > http://www.welshmariners.org.uk/ > Morwyr Cymru Welsh Mariners > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== Cewch ddanfon negeseuon Cymraeg neu Saesneg i'r rhestr hon This list covers a bilingual area, in which messages in both Welsh and English are welcome ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930

Hi Jane Ellen, Here is Mary in the 1900 with Owen and other children. She came over in 1885 with Owen. The rest were born in PA. LLOYD, MARY (1900 U.S. Census) Pennsylvania , LUZERNE, 2-WD ASHLEY BORO, Age 35, Female, Race: White, Born: WALE Series: T623 Roll: 1430 Page: 27 Image not really clear can't read all months/birthyears Mary 35 Wid. 10 births/6 living Wash woman Owen 15 ??? picker Mary 13 works in stocking factory Jennie 8 Thomas 6 William 5 I'll send image in case you don't have it. Jennifer In a message dated 6/3/2004 3:05:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Jenn, Thank you so much for checking, but this isn't my Lloyds. Richard and Mary (my greatgrandparents) were married in Wales and came here about 1885 with atleast one child, Owen, under a year old at the time. They resided in Ashley, Pa. and Richard died 1895, the result of a coal mine accident. Mary lived in in Ashley and then in Wilkes-Barre, until she died. I do not know where they came from for sure (just that it was Wales) as per the census info for PA. I found some info and think they were married in Llanwrst, but not sure if it's them. So what I need is anything at all but mostly Wales info. Jane Ellen

Hello Dorothy Re what a constitutes a 'township' The following was in the Daily Mail in August 1995 and subsequently disseminated to GFHS membersa via Gwreiddiau Gwynedd Roots. It refers to what makes up a mediaeval ' Hundred' One homestead equals four acres (i.e four strips of land held by one farmer) One shareland equalled four homestead ( 16 acres) One holding equalled four sharelands ( 64 acres) One vill( township) equalled four holdings ( 256 acres) One Maenor (Manor) equalled four vills ( 1024 acres) One Commote equalled 12 Maenor and 2 vills or 50 vills. One hundred equalled 100 vills or 2 Commotes ( 25,600 acres) It seems to me that a number of the parishes contain quite a few 'townships' that are either now long forgotten or are parts of much larger,modern farms Hope it helps Hywyn Williams ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy Lloyd" <[email protected]> > Hello Thomas, > Thanks for your reply, it is all very interesting to see how placenames are > spelt at different times, and by different persons.. > The 'townships' (which I did a copy & paste on) puzzled me, so many in > Llanrwst, I wonder how many dwellings would constitute a township?. > regards, > Dorothy Lloyd > >

I'm sorry, I do not not a thing about "Townships", but I do know a llittle about the Welsh Language and the meaning of words. i.e. Tybrith Isaf means LOWER MOTTLED HOUSE and Tybrith Uchaf HIGHER MOTTLED HOUSE, CILCENNIS is the only one that is unclear to me and even though another person informs us that there is such a place it makes no sense in Welsh. Probably another name that has been bastardised somewhere along the line, and believe me there are hundreds of them. That is why it is so important that researchers do take care with the spellings. Regards, TMH. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy Lloyd" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 11:49 AM Subject: Re: re:[CAE]1841 census > Hello Thomas, > Thanks for your reply, it is all very interesting to see how placenames are > spelt at different times, and by different persons.. > The 'townships' (which I did a copy & paste on) puzzled me, so many in > Llanrwst, I wonder how many dwellings would constitute a township?. > regards, > Dorothy Lloyd > > > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Gwynedd Family History Society > www.gwynedd.fsbusiness.co.uk/ > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >