In a message dated 12/11/2001 11:28:58 AM Central Standard Time, jensen6@pacbell.net writes: > I'm searching for some information about my GGGgrandfather Morgan James who > lived in Waukesha Co. (Ottawa Township) in 1850, moved to Waushara Co. > (Springwater) by 1860, and then returned to Waukesha before he died. I have > been able to assemble this information about him. He was born in Wales > about 1797, came to the US in August of 1846. He married Ann ??, also born > in Wales. Their children all born in Wales were Ann (my GG)b. 1825 who > married John Carlin, twins Mary and Richard b. 1833, Thomas b. 1835 and > Catherine (Cate) b. 1837. In 1850, Mary, Richard and Thomas were working > and living at neighboring farms. Both sons died in the Civil War. The > Waukesha Historical Society and Museum sent me his probate record dated > 12-24-1869 in which he names wife Ann, and daughters Ann, Mary and Cate. His > will was executed on 4-25-1866 (does this mean he died in 1866 or 1869?) > The Museum also sent this information James R. Morgan (I think they reversed > the names) born 1789, died June 27, 1869, buried Jerusalem Cemetery. I > believe some of the conflicting birth date information is because there was > another Morgan James in Waukesha. Does anyone have access to obits, death > records, or cemetery lists who could help me figure out the correct date of > death for my Morgan. I am also interested in finding what happened to Mary > and Cate - who they married and info on their descendants. Is anyone > familiar with this family? > Thank You > Leslie Jensen > Leslie I think I can clear up the confusing information for you. The date the will was executed in 1866 was the day it was signed. It has nothing to do with his date of death. You can sign a will the same day as you die (if you are competent) or you can sign one years before you die. Valid wills do not expire although a change in the testator's (writer of the will) circumstances can cause the provisions of the will to have a different effect or even no effect. For example, a marriage with subsequent children of the marriage can invalidate a previously valid will. Thats probably more than you wanted to know but who knows you may someday use it. The probate record dated 12/24/1869 was mostly likely the day someone filed the will with Waukesha County Probate Court together with a petition to the Court asking that the will be admitted to probate and a personal representative of the estate ( or executor ) be appointed. The pers. rep. then administers the estate by collecting the deceased's assets, paying his or her creditors, and distributing the remainder of the estate as provided in the will. The date that administration is started has nothing to do with the date of death although it can only occur after the date of death. Prior to that time, a will has no effect. I would guess that the date given to you of June 27, 1869 for the date of death is probably accurate. It can take some time to begin probate today and probably took long in the 19th century. The purpose of probate is to transfer the deceased's assets according to his wishes but not to the exclusion of any creditors. You may want to get a copy of the will and the details of the probate record. Wills have very interesting information in them as the traditional estate plan is to pass one's estate to the objects of one's bounty, close family members. Also if a child is excluded the reason for the exclusion could be in the will. The probate record itself will identify the decedent's heirs at law and everyone mentioned in the will together with their addresses. For a married person in the 19th century, his or her heirs would be spouse, if any, and living children. If there were any deceased children with children then living, those grandchildren of the deceased would also be named as heirs. The probate file will also contain an inventory of the deceased's assets and the value of the individual assets. You can obtain legal descriptions of real estate through these inventories. I hope this info answers some of your questions. Sorry for the length. Susan

Susan, thanks for all the information, this is helpful. I am now fairly certain that death date belongs to my Morgan and I will try to get a death certificate. Now, does anyone know the proper agency from which to obtain a copy of a will. I would be interested in this information for all my ancestors who died in Waukesha (or elsewhere in Wisconsin for that matter). I can't look myself as I live in CA. The Waukesha Historical Museum sent me everything they had on the Jameses and Carlins and the County website (register of deeds) doesn't specifically mention wills although I have used them for marriage and death certificates. Can anyone send me to the right place? Thanks, Leslie P.S. - if anyone has an index for Jerusalem Cemetery, I am still looking for some dates for Morgan's wife Ann James who would most likely be buried with him there (I believe she died between 1870 and 1880). Or even an address I could use to write to them. -----Original Message----- From: SAA4770@aol.com [mailto:SAA4770@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:04 PM To: WIWAUKES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WIWAUKES] Morgan James In a message dated 12/11/2001 11:28:58 AM Central Standard Time, jensen6@pacbell.net writes: > I'm searching for some information about my GGGgrandfather Morgan James who > lived in Waukesha Co. (Ottawa Township) in 1850, moved to Waushara Co. > (Springwater) by 1860, and then returned to Waukesha before he died. I have > been able to assemble this information about him. He was born in Wales > about 1797, came to the US in August of 1846. He married Ann ??, also born > in Wales. Their children all born in Wales were Ann (my GG)b. 1825 who > married John Carlin, twins Mary and Richard b. 1833, Thomas b. 1835 and > Catherine (Cate) b. 1837. In 1850, Mary, Richard and Thomas were working > and living at neighboring farms. Both sons died in the Civil War. The > Waukesha Historical Society and Museum sent me his probate record dated > 12-24-1869 in which he names wife Ann, and daughters Ann, Mary and Cate. His > will was executed on 4-25-1866 (does this mean he died in 1866 or 1869?) > The Museum also sent this information James R. Morgan (I think they reversed > the names) born 1789, died June 27, 1869, buried Jerusalem Cemetery. I > believe some of the conflicting birth date information is because there was > another Morgan James in Waukesha. Does anyone have access to obits, death > records, or cemetery lists who could help me figure out the correct date of > death for my Morgan. I am also interested in finding what happened to Mary > and Cate - who they married and info on their descendants. Is anyone > familiar with this family? > Thank You > Leslie Jensen > Leslie I think I can clear up the confusing information for you. The date the will was executed in 1866 was the day it was signed. It has nothing to do with his date of death. You can sign a will the same day as you die (if you are competent) or you can sign one years before you die. Valid wills do not expire although a change in the testator's (writer of the will) circumstances can cause the provisions of the will to have a different effect or even no effect. For example, a marriage with subsequent children of the marriage can invalidate a previously valid will. Thats probably more than you wanted to know but who knows you may someday use it. The probate record dated 12/24/1869 was mostly likely the day someone filed the will with Waukesha County Probate Court together with a petition to the Court asking that the will be admitted to probate and a personal representative of the estate ( or executor ) be appointed. The pers. rep. then administers the estate by collecting the deceased's assets, paying his or her creditors, and distributing the remainder of the estate as provided in the will. The date that administration is started has nothing to do with the date of death although it can only occur after the date of death. Prior to that time, a will has no effect. I would guess that the date given to you of June 27, 1869 for the date of death is probably accurate. It can take some time to begin probate today and probably took long in the 19th century. The purpose of probate is to transfer the deceased's assets according to his wishes but not to the exclusion of any creditors. You may want to get a copy of the will and the details of the probate record. Wills have very interesting information in them as the traditional estate plan is to pass one's estate to the objects of one's bounty, close family members. Also if a child is excluded the reason for the exclusion could be in the will. The probate record itself will identify the decedent's heirs at law and everyone mentioned in the will together with their addresses. For a married person in the 19th century, his or her heirs would be spouse, if any, and living children. If there were any deceased children with children then living, those grandchildren of the deceased would also be named as heirs. The probate file will also contain an inventory of the deceased's assets and the value of the individual assets. You can obtain legal descriptions of real estate through these inventories. I hope this info answers some of your questions. Sorry for the length. Susan ==== WIWAUKES Mailing List ==== The Waukesha County Mailing List is maintained by Jan Cortez, Waukesha County, WIGenWeb Coordinator. If you have a problems or concerns, please contact me at cristian@netonecom.net ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237