Hello, I have never wrote to the list befre, although I have been a member for a long time now. I was gone for the weekend and was amazed at the activity on this list when I got back home. Was horrified though when I read what had took place while I was camping. Since Kristi was removed from the mailing list I won't even reply to her here, she will not be able to see the message anyway. I do have a question that I would like to ask though, I don't want to start a war because of my question though. A member of the mailing list and now I can remember who it was and I can't jog between this letter and the one in question, but the sender, someone who responded to Kristi's attack, made the comment that the website doesn't have much. I forget exactly how she worded it, but it was a female and she did mention that it may not have much useful information on it but that Kristi's shouldn't e-mail to Debi that way. Now for my question, I was wondering if you have really seen Debi's pages? I know at first I didn't think Sheboygan county had much information on it either, but that was because I didn't properly read what the links were for. There is a link that says Sheboygan county fun stuff or something like that. This is where everything is. I think the sender of that letter really need to go back and look again. It doesn't matter what amount who paid to get what, but I am tired of people saying there isn't anything there when the set-up is loaded. If people can't find anything on the web, then maybe it is because they are either in the wrong county or perhaps it is because their ancestor didn't leave a paper trail. I have an ancestor like that, they didn't like filling out anything that might have to do with the government, It was very hard to find them on a census or any of the vital records, no newspaper, nothing. I finally found where in a letter from one family to someone else, they actually mentioned my ancestor as being their neighbor. I e-mailed to Debi and asked her for help. She dug and dug and dug and actually found much more info then I ever dreamed of and since I live 90 minutes from Sheboygan I have been there and looking. I went to the research center and the courthouse and library. The research center is where I found the letter. Debi actually contacted some church or churches, spent her time looking and looking and finally came up with a goldmine for me. Debi, I changed e-mail addresses since then, but I think you will remember who I am. I still haven't and never will forget that. To the perosn who made that comment, either e-mail me in private or answer to the list, but would you explain how you feel there may not be much on-line, please? Thank you for reading my letter, DeeDee Smith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Hello Members, I have hit a major dead end in my search for some information on the PANGIER's of Sheboygan. I'm particularly, looking for some death information on Annie Pangier who was shot by her husband, George after 1908. Annie and George had a son named Elmer in 1908. He ended up living with an uncle after his mother's death. Unfortunately, Elmer never talked about his parents or the uncle who raised him from a young age. I was unable to locate any of this Pangier family in the 1910 Sheboygan County Census. I'm assuming Annie died by that time, but am not positive. I have contacted the Sheboygan County Court House and they were unable to help me since I had no date and the State has a pretty spendy search charge. Anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do? Thanks in advance, Paula

Hey Listers, Here is a good bit of e-mail for you after this week. I have managed to pinpoint the location of the virus, I contacted the person I believed it was coming from, explained I didn't think they were aware they were infected and they wrote back this morning apologizing (which wasn't necessary) and we are all good to go again. It is safe to e-mail the list and please always remember in the future as long as you don't execute a file, you can not be infected. Everyone have a great Sunday and even better week, Debie

To All The People on the Sheboygan County Mailing List, Well, I just finished reading Kristi's latest missive... Is this a joke? I have one or two things I'd like to say to Kristi: Let me just start by saying that I am not related to Debi nor has she paid me anything. For that matter, I have never paid her anything either... It is my understanding that people can send Debi money so she can pay the Sheboygan County Courthouse fees for copying the information. Do you feel Debie should pay this out of her pocket? I know she has in the past, as well as pay postage to mail information to people with no thought of asking to be repaid. You are upset that people who don't know you are judging you? What are you doing to Deb? Hellloooooo! You are upset that people are cutting you down? Helloooooo! What are you doing to Deb? Hey, Kristi, Amy left - Get Over It! I don't know why she left, do you? Kristi, the object of the Sheboygan County web site is not to GIVE you all the information on a birth certificate or marriage certificate or death certificate. The object of the Sheboygan County web site is to let you know that the certificate is at the courthouse, so you can go there yourself or write to them and get a copy of it. Information taken off the internet should always be checked personally, but I'm sure you already know that since you've been doing genealogy for so long.... Kristi, people who were born after 1912 might not want their information posted on a website. There is a privacy issue involved. I'm sure you already know that though because you've been involved with genealogy for so long. Kristi, the purpose of putting unidentified pictures on a website is so that someone else, with as much experience as you have, might be able to identify the people. Kristi, last time I looked, adoption records were sealed. I'm sure you know that, though. If you know of a site where adoption records are posted, please let me know because I'd be very interested. Kristi, I do have a question for you though...Could you give me the URL's of all these websites that have all this information posted? I'm sure it would be a great help to many people. Kristi, have you actually been to the Sheboygan County website? Last time I was there, I saw a number of cemeteries listed. There are 11 cemeteries with information listed on the website. Hey, Kristi, maybe you could take a quick run through some of the other Sheboygan County cemeteries and write down the info on the stones. That would be a big help! Kristi, if you want to help Debi improve her web site, why not volunteer to type some of the information for her, or better yet, go to the Sheboygan County courthouse or the historical society and copy information you would like to see and type it up and send it to Debi? That would help a lot. And, I'm sure they'd probably give it to you for free, so that way, we wouldn't have to help you by sending money. Kristi, I can't tell you how many people have written to me and asked for more information because of an obituary or marriage that Debi has posted on her web site. It's got to be well over 50 and maybe even more. Those people were grateful that Debi had this information posted there. It gives them a place to do further research, which is the whole idea behind these websites, Kristi. Kristi, maybe you need to ask your parents to tell you the difference between being obnoxious and rude and being truthful. Saying the things you said about her mother is obnoxious and rude, not truthful! Saying the website sucks, is obnoxious and rude, not truthful. Personally attacking Debi is obnoxious and rude, not truthful. Criticizing Debi and the website doesn't help anything. Why not volunteer to type something or copy something. How much time have you spent in your many years of genealogy experience helping other people find information on their ancestors? Kristi, in my 20 plus years of doing genealogy research, I have spent hundreds of hours helping other people. It's a nice feeling. Try it, you might like it Kay R reitstuf@wi.rr.com

I think that Kristi has gotten the picture by now and although I agree, there is no use putting the lady in front of a firing squad. Just let her know what she can volunteer to do and be done with it. I enjoy the site as I do with many in Wisconsin and Minnesota. I really get the most from the mailing lists though. In general people are very friendly and helpful. For that I am grateful. Not living in the area it is kind of difficult for the rest of us to do much in the way of contributing because we don't have much in the way of sources to contribute. If a package of work was to arrive in my mail box I wouldn't turn it down and I don't think Kristi would either. Thank you Debbie and all for all that you are contributing, with you your support it would be slim pickings. Mary

Hi ya'll, I just couldn't resist.....my 2 cents worth. I'm researching the WAGNER and FISCHBACH families that came to Manitowoc County, but they also bordered Sheboygan County, and some of their records are located there. Some were destroyed in a church fire in Sheboygan County... making research difficult, however not impossible! I just had someone write to me (not a relative) about someone who did have the information I was seeking, and have since made contact with this person and will be receiving his book in the near future, containing all my long sought after connections! (At least 15 years of searching!) I started researching 35-36 years ago. Without the help of many many people, most of whom I've never met personally, I would have nothing to show for my efforts except a very small amount of data (by comparison) that I've gleaned out of court house records, microfilms of newspapers, trips to archives and historical societies, etc. When I started this project, there were no computers, no data bases, no Sheboygan County or any other county lists to look to. All we had were a few publications like "Genealogical Helper". An ad I placed there in 1986 or 87 still brings me snail-mail on my query, regularly! The internet, and it's volunteer system of free Genealogy is THE BEST thing I've seen! I've only been online a year, and let me say that things have changed drastically from the days when each of us had to travel for every little tidbit of information, hundreds of miles, and walk cemeteries, etc. (Its still fun tho!) Hats off to all the volunteers! Debie--You're the best! Patti

Kristi, There is a word for you but I am to polite to say it. Normally I do not get involved with this kind of mail but once in a while someone like you really makes me angry. If you think that Debie's site is so awful why don't you check out some of the other counties like Marinette or Door County. There are only a few sites in Wisconsin I like going to and one of them is Sheboygan. I will agree there are some problems but obviously you are not a true genealogist or you would be ecstatic over even a little tidbit of information. At least if you find a name you yourself could contact the Courthouse to get more if you wanted to. Is it the fact that you want everything on a silver platter that makes you act the way you do? You seem to be asking a lot of questions, do you have a personal grudge against Debie?? The reason why Amy left is really not any of your business nor mine for that matter. Maybe she got tired of putting up with people like you and didn't say anything on the list because she didn't want the NICE people to take offense. If you think her site is so bad why don't YOU VOLUNTEER and maybe you could make it easier on her or is that BENEATH you!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the way, I am not related to Debie nor have I ever met her. She has not sent me any money and I have not sent her any. I personally don't think anyone has cut you down but has tried to tell you how they feel. If you take it as an insult that is YOUR PROBLEM!!!! Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: Kristi Albiston <mykristi@mail.com> To: <WISHEBOY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:14 AM Subject: Are you all done now? > Hello once more, > Are all of you done or just taking a break for some hand lotion? First I > really need to know something, its been bugging me more and more with each > letter and there have been about 13 so far. My first question is this, how > much is Debbie paying you people to rub her ego? Let me think a minute, the > mere 13 who replied to me are related to her, right? Perhaps I went about > this wrong, I should have rubbed her ego like you did and then maybe I would > have received some useful information, is that how she is paying all of you? > She puts crap on-line and if you rub her fragile ego enough she sends you > the useful information? I hope the information she sent was at least worth > the brown nosing I have seen here. > Let me ask this, if her site is so great, then why doesn't she have any > awards? The mere good sites at least receive awards. I noticed Fond du Lac > has an award, yet I noticed Debbie has nothing. Is it maybe that her site > really does suck? I was also boldly told that she is giving free information > to us users. HEELLOOOO!!!!! If this info is so free, why are so many people > talking about paying her? How much is she charging you and how does she go > about demanding your money? Sounds to me like she has a really good scam > going here and some people are stupid enough to pay for free information. > You people judge me, you don't even know me. How dare you cut me down and > tell me I am snotty. Where do you people come from that you feel it is all > right to cut me down like that? Maybe because what I said was the truth and > we all know that the truth hurts now don't we? Allow me to show you snotty. > If this female and the other people you yelled at me about are so wonderful, > then why isn't this site loaded? I remember Amy and I also know she left. > HHHmmmm.... don't you wonder if it was because her and Debi didn't see eye > to eye on what should be put on the web site. I seem to remember Debi > announcing Amy was leaving, but we never heard a word from Amy as to why. > Come to think of it, Amy never posted to the mailing list again. Was she > removed from the mailing list perhaps? How do we know Debbie didn't shove > her out because Amy was getting all the ego rubbing. Could it be that Debi > no longer wanted to share the wealth? You talk about all the info that is > there. I see a bunch of useless pictures of the City of Sheboygan, we are > looking for the past, not what the city looks like now. She is even stupid > enough to put pictures on-line that no one seems to know. What good is that? > A picture isn't to great when you don't even know who the people are. > If she is looking at each record and adding the parents names, and she is oh > so wonderful here now according to 13 people, why isn't she adding > everything on the record? Why stop at parent names, why not birth locations, > certainly there has to be more on the birth records then just the babies > name and the parents names, how about a location where this birth happened, > what about the birth location of the parents? Look at the marriages, why > doesn't she put the location of the marriage, the church, the matron of > honor and best man, why isn't she adding there names? See, this is what I > mean by useless. I have looked and looked and the most recent birth I was > able to find is 1912 and only a few at best and the marriages don't seem to > go much further then that. If she is adding the vital index to her oh so > useful site, why isn't she adding the full slate of index. > HHEEELLLLOOOOO!!!!! Anyone awake here, it is 2001 last time I checked, not > 1912 and I am pretty sure that people got married past 1912 and I am also > pretty sure that there has been a baby born there since 1912. See, once > again totally useless. What about adopted people looking for their parents? > She has no provision on her oh so useful site for those people. Let me > guess, no one has paid her for that section or rubbed her ego the right way > yet, right? I understand, no one from the entire county of Sheboygan was > ever adopted, right? A truly good site would make provisions for the adopted > children to locate their birth parents. Why don't all of you wake up and > smell the coffee, she isn't God or even the Mother of God. > Speaking of mothers, someone mentioned she was working on the site even > though her mother died. Well since when did the world stop just because this > woman's mother bought the farm? I never heard of her mother, so she must not > have been all that. Does anyone know what her mother died from? I bet I > know, she died from shame when she found out what her daughter was calling > useful. It was also stated that someone thought she didn't get any sleep, > well now I know why the site lacks, she is sleeping while putting half of > this stuff on the internet. Now I get it. > I have been doing research for almost 5 years now and say what you will, her > site stinks, she has a poor ego that needs rubbing and I think that there > are more then 13 people signed up to this mailing list. If there are only 13 > people signed onto this mailing list, then that does show this site really > is useless. A good web site has a bunch of people signed onto the mailing > list and the mailing list is active. The only mail I ever receive from this > list is from her and all she ever does is to tell us about all the almost > complete, but not quite info she herself has put on-line to help us. Let me > guess, after that then all 13 of you write to rub her ego and tell her how > great she is and how she is right up there with God. Wow, maybe I should bow > my head, she could be the next Mother Teresa, right? Listen folks, you can > bad mouth me all you want, but if you read what you wrote, all of you stated > it in one way or another, she does this for attention, free information is > being paid for and at the first sound of her leaving, 13 people run after > her and beg her to stay. What a joke! Why not let her leave, maybe we can > get Amy back and then something of use or at least complete will go on-line. > Not only does she NOT have a life, but neither do you. Someone else stated I > have no idea what is involved in information on the internet. Excuse me, > have you looked around, it can't be that hard with so many different web > sites out there. I am no computer geek, but her site isn't as fancy as > others, so where is her time and YOUR money going? > Well, she can maybe blast 13 of you into a dream world, but I am not the > only one who sees through her lies. Not everyone agrees with you. This guy > wrote to me and said he had enough and even wanted off of her mailing list > and she wouldn't let him off. Here, maybe if I post his e-mail to the > mailing list then perhaps he will be removed. He wrote and asked me to > remove him from the Sheboygan mailing list. Now isn't that pathetic. Here > Mrs. Ever-so-wonderful please remove this guy from your list, he has had > enough of your useless site and ego rubbing and even dumber updates of > incomplete information. BnanaSmurf@aol.com wants to get off of this dumb > list. Are you smart enough to remove him or does he need to pay you to > remove him or perhaps he needs to beg and plead to have this done. Maybe you > won't even do it because that would mean even less people on your mailing > list. Isn't there a minimum number of people needed to be signed up in order > to have a mailing list. Getting pretty low there, aren't you? > Most of you blew this way out of proportion, all I wanted to do was to help > her have a site she could be proud of, maybe if I would have wrote sooner, > even her momma wouldn't have died of shame. > Why don't all of you mighty mouth people ask yourself a few questions. Ask > yourself if the census information, I believe she called it an index, has > been useful to you? Where are the cemeteries? Have you ever heard of a > genealogy web site with no cemeteries on it? She has a newspaper article > section, where are they? Have any of you found this to be useful? How many > people used the vital indexes and found something you didn't already have, > especially with no parent names listed? She has a veterans memorial listed, > how many people found something useful from there? Let's face it, if you > didn't know your ancestor already died in a war, what information that she > has listed has been of help to you? There are no parent names, death dates, > location of death, events surrounding the death or even a stinking ID number > to even help a researcher to look for more information. > I stated last night I didn't mean to sound like a snot, I was trying to > point out where her site lacks and let's face it everyone, that is all her > site does is lack. It lacks the information needed to be of use to the > researcher. You still have to go elsewhere, look someplace else or pay > someone else for this information. Her site isn't useful to a serious > researcher. Maybe to a new person this site is God's gift to researchers, > but to a person who has been doing this for as many years as I have, there > is nothing of use there. Go back and read the letters that I received, go > past the nastiness and read what was said. She gives you a little bit, you > still need to pay someone else for the useful stuff. Someone mentioned a > research center, if Sheboygan has one, why isn't she going like her head is > on fire to this research center and doing her copying there and putting this > information on-line? Read what was written, it was said over and over, > people are paying her and then having to go elsewhere to pay more to someone > else for something they can use. Without trying to blast me into your dream > world, would someone please explain how this is useful? Can all 13 of you > people or anyone else, if there is anyone else on this mailing list share a > success with us? Can anyone on this mailing list write and honestly say that > they went onto her pile of bits and pieces site and found something they had > been looking and looking for? Has anyone ever been able to use this > haphazard site and say to us that they managed to get over or around the > brick wall they have hit by something she has on this site? If so, please I > would love to know it, also let us know how long you have been researching. > Like I said to a new person, this site could be the cat's meow. > Despite what 13 of you thought, I never meant to make it sound like I wanted > Debbie to give up her site, she sure turned it into that though, didn't she? > I just wanted to point out to her that she needs to add something we can > use. I am getting tired of waiting to find something useful on this site. > I have several brick walls in Sheboygan and have been waiting and hoping > that she would someday add something I could use to even nick those bricks, > but there is nothing there. If this is her site, why are so many of you > having to add your information to make it "Great"? > I am done trying to help her and all of you to have a site that is of use. I > tried to be nice in my last letter and all of you were rude and nasty. I > think Debbie knows I speak the truth, if you noticed, she didn't tell me to > go fly or that I was full of it, she almost seemed to be trying to convince > me of the greatness in this site. If I was so full of it, then why didn't > Debbi blast me like all of the ego rubbers did? Yes, you must be right, her > site is just awesome. NOT! > > By the way, this letter was meant to be snotty, so how do you like it? I > guess my parents were right when they told me that if you speak the truth > you will have people jumping all over you because not many can accept the > truth. They told me I would someday be surprised as to how much the truth > can really hurt. My parents were right as always and it sure does show here, > now doesn't it? > > Maybe I was wrong in writing my last letter, I guess I assumed more then > just one guy would be brave enough to try to get something we could use on > this site, I never thought poor Debie had to be treated like glass so her > little ego didn't break. Please forgive me for rocking her boat. > > > ______________________________________________ > FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com > Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > > > ============================== > Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate > your heritage! > http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog > >

My goodness, I think a certain someone displayed her true colors, which I think just about said it all. By the way, I've been doing genealogy for 4 1/2 years now, which must make me a professional, right? :) And that's the last I'll say publicly on this little matter. Anyway, on with genealogy. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the state birth indexes are all messed up, so I was unable to find birth records on a g-grandfather and his siblings. Well, Debie's site had the index information in an easy-to-read fashion, which allowed me to find the birth records. It turns out the information was in the state birth indexes, but in a different section than expected. I likely would have never found it on my own. I do wish the vital information went up to today, but I think Wisconsin law prevents that, doesn't it? Plus, I think there's a privacy issue involved. I also found out the hard way that the Sheboygan County Registar of Deeds will charge $14 for each record if you don't have the vol and page information ($7 if you do), which Debie's site provides. I have a particular line and a lot of collateral lines who lived in Sheboygan County, so every little bit of information helps. I think the second most useful part of the site for me has been the marriage newspaper writeups. It has helped me connect people in my database as well as see what happened to some of the children of people I already do have. Plus, the newspaper information has covered later years that the vital indexes can't. I would suggest the USGenWeb sister site (would that be the proper term for it?) at http://www.rootsweb.com/~wisheboy/ as a complement to Debie's site, especially the obituary section (over 900 are posted right now). Going back and forth between the marriage writeups and the obits has helped me a lot. I would also recommend the Sheboygan County Historical Research Center (http://www.schrc.org/), assuming you can afford the $15/hour charge. I unexpectedly received emigration papers on a Prussian ancestor, though it was in the old German script; the Center was kind enough to charge only $15 to have it translated for me. I would highly recommend checking with them to see if they have emigration and naturalization information on your ancestor. They will send you cemetery listings if you give them a family name. They also have obits and marriage write-ups, though you should check to see if the two Sheboygan sites have that information first. They have all kinds of books and tons of other records that are too numerous to mention. If I ever get a chance to visit Wisconsin for a genealogy field trip, that's one of the places I would definitely visit. So, does anyone else wish to share what has been most useful to them on Debie's site? How about other Sheboygan resources? -- Dana in MD

Deb, I just have to say, you are doing a great job!! Thank YOU!! Now, let's get back to the topic we are all interested in - genealogy! Peg Peggy Rockwell Gleich Surnames searching: ROCKWELL, SPAFFORD, GLEICH, WILKINSON, FRAYN/E, GAY, DUNWIDDIE, BRUNKOW, GROSENICK, MAASCH and others. Genealogist and Family Historian Newsletter Editor of the Wilkinson Connection (for all Researchers of Wilkinson, Wilkerson, Wilkins, etc. Newsletter Editor of Cemetery Q's & A's (Queries & Anecdotes) for all those interested in genealogy and cemeteries President of the Walworth County (WI) Genealogical Society - visit our website at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~wiwalwor/ Publicity Chairman & Director, BIG WILL (British Interest Group of WI & IL) - visit our website at www.rootsweb.com/~wiilbig/ Wisconsin Genealogical Council, member Board of Directors - visit our website at: www.rootsweb.com/~wgc/ WI State Old Cemetery Society Coordinator for Walworth County WI

I think it's time to return to what this site is for, Genealogy. The same basically happened on the Prussian site a few months ago and it just took on a life of it's own with no end in sight until the web- master had to take the offending individual (German) off of the site. Hopefully, this will not happen here, but...............well, enough said. Regards, Robert Lipprandt (South Florida) Searching: Buscher <> Schulte <> Altenberger Hamann <> Town of Herman, Sheboygan Cnty.

Hi Listers, Please forgive my last two letters. I never meant for them to go through the mailing list. I didn't pay close attention to where it was being sent and didn't realize it went to the mailing list until I received a copy of them back. I am so sorry, I just want to return to genealogy, please forgive me and let's get back to what we are here for, searching for our family lines, I am sorry all of you had to receive all of this junk, If you need to discuss this further, please let's do this privately. Any other research or genealogy related question are more then welcome, Have a good weekend everyone, Debie

For Goodness Sake, I did not send a virus to you. Since you have been paying such close attention, you should have known that I have been writing to the list about this and telling everyone even if they receive this file just delete it and nothing will happen. The key to safety is to not open it. Now just stop this nonsense. It has gone more then far enough now!!

Kristi, This is enough now. I will not tolerate your abuse of the mailing list. I have removed you from the mailing list at this time. I have never done that to anyone before, but I have never seen such abuse of innocent people in my life. Telling me how you felt about my website is one thing, abusing those who replied to your letter is another and it will not be tolerated. I had taken your first letter into consideration, but now to be honest with you, I feel you are nothing more then a spoiled child. I am not even sure you deserve this response, but I don't feel it is right to leave this go unanswered. There are a few things I want to set straight with you and as hard as I tried to just ignore this, I can not. 1. I charge no one to access or use any information on the website. I never have and I never will. Since you stated you have searched the site thoroughly, then I would assume you also saw the Thank you and goal pages. You can see the amount the copies of the indexes cost. I asked for help in purchasing these copies, but I never insisted people pay or else. I wanted to place these indexes on-line to assist a researcher, no matter if they were brand new or if they have done research all of their life and I would have hand copied every single page if I needed to. 2. Don't you ever, ever talk about my mother again. You have no right to say the things you said in your letter about my mom and the only response I will say to you about this is: Someday you will have to answer to a higher power for your cruelty. 3. I feel the need to ask this question. If someone would e-mail you and tell you they have one piece of information on your family line, would you accept it because it just might help or would you reject it and turn the little bit of information away because it is not complete? If you answer, TO YOURSELF, that you would accept it because it just might help, then welcome to the Sheboygan County page. I add bits, pieces and other information because I don't know if it will help someone someday or not. 4. If you would just have e-mailed me privately or better yet, e-mailed this list and said you hit a brick wall with a couple of your lines, you would be surprised who on this list would jump in to help find an answer or suggest things to try or places to look. I am very proud of the people who have contributed to the website and of the people on this mailing list, because I know they will bend over backwards to help anyone who takes the couple of minutes to write and just ask. The key to this is asking for help, nicely. 5. As for dropping my county page, I am sorry I added that to my note, I made the mistake of typing what I was thinking for a brief moment. You would need to know me to understand that if I was holding back any of the researchers on this site, I would give it to someone who could move forward with it. I would do this in a heartbeat. The rest of your letter doesn't deserve a response from me, although I admit I would really love to let you know what I am really thinking right now, but I will never waste my time on such nonsense. Just think about one thing, the 13 people you refer to in your letter that you just alienated bigtime may have held the key to open the door to one of your brick walls. Believe me, you never know who has the key and they may not even be related, but remember it when looking for their own information. I have indeed been blessed with the people on this mailing list, many of them have remembered a line I was stuck or dead ended on and they ran across information while doing their own research and they remembered me and I know I am not alone. >Maybe I was wrong in writing my last letter, I guess I assumed more then >just one guy would be brave enough to try to get something we could use on No maybe about it, you were wrong in the way you wrote this letter.

Just wanted to let you know that the virus someone tried sending me to get even because of the letter I sent to Debie didn't work. If you sent it Debie, then you are one sick woman. Other way.... I am not a dumb person, I didn't open the file, so my computer is just fine and lives on. Sorry to disappoint you. ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

Hello once more, Are all of you done or just taking a break for some hand lotion? First I really need to know something, its been bugging me more and more with each letter and there have been about 13 so far. My first question is this, how much is Debbie paying you people to rub her ego? Let me think a minute, the mere 13 who replied to me are related to her, right? Perhaps I went about this wrong, I should have rubbed her ego like you did and then maybe I would have received some useful information, is that how she is paying all of you? She puts crap on-line and if you rub her fragile ego enough she sends you the useful information? I hope the information she sent was at least worth the brown nosing I have seen here. Let me ask this, if her site is so great, then why doesn't she have any awards? The mere good sites at least receive awards. I noticed Fond du Lac has an award, yet I noticed Debbie has nothing. Is it maybe that her site really does suck? I was also boldly told that she is giving free information to us users. HEELLOOOO!!!!! If this info is so free, why are so many people talking about paying her? How much is she charging you and how does she go about demanding your money? Sounds to me like she has a really good scam going here and some people are stupid enough to pay for free information. You people judge me, you don't even know me. How dare you cut me down and tell me I am snotty. Where do you people come from that you feel it is all right to cut me down like that? Maybe because what I said was the truth and we all know that the truth hurts now don't we? Allow me to show you snotty. If this female and the other people you yelled at me about are so wonderful, then why isn't this site loaded? I remember Amy and I also know she left. HHHmmmm.... don't you wonder if it was because her and Debi didn't see eye to eye on what should be put on the web site. I seem to remember Debi announcing Amy was leaving, but we never heard a word from Amy as to why. Come to think of it, Amy never posted to the mailing list again. Was she removed from the mailing list perhaps? How do we know Debbie didn't shove her out because Amy was getting all the ego rubbing. Could it be that Debi no longer wanted to share the wealth? You talk about all the info that is there. I see a bunch of useless pictures of the City of Sheboygan, we are looking for the past, not what the city looks like now. She is even stupid enough to put pictures on-line that no one seems to know. What good is that? A picture isn't to great when you don't even know who the people are. If she is looking at each record and adding the parents names, and she is oh so wonderful here now according to 13 people, why isn't she adding everything on the record? Why stop at parent names, why not birth locations, certainly there has to be more on the birth records then just the babies name and the parents names, how about a location where this birth happened, what about the birth location of the parents? Look at the marriages, why doesn't she put the location of the marriage, the church, the matron of honor and best man, why isn't she adding there names? See, this is what I mean by useless. I have looked and looked and the most recent birth I was able to find is 1912 and only a few at best and the marriages don't seem to go much further then that. If she is adding the vital index to her oh so useful site, why isn't she adding the full slate of index. HHEEELLLLOOOOO!!!!! Anyone awake here, it is 2001 last time I checked, not 1912 and I am pretty sure that people got married past 1912 and I am also pretty sure that there has been a baby born there since 1912. See, once again totally useless. What about adopted people looking for their parents? She has no provision on her oh so useful site for those people. Let me guess, no one has paid her for that section or rubbed her ego the right way yet, right? I understand, no one from the entire county of Sheboygan was ever adopted, right? A truly good site would make provisions for the adopted children to locate their birth parents. Why don't all of you wake up and smell the coffee, she isn't God or even the Mother of God. Speaking of mothers, someone mentioned she was working on the site even though her mother died. Well since when did the world stop just because this woman's mother bought the farm? I never heard of her mother, so she must not have been all that. Does anyone know what her mother died from? I bet I know, she died from shame when she found out what her daughter was calling useful. It was also stated that someone thought she didn't get any sleep, well now I know why the site lacks, she is sleeping while putting half of this stuff on the internet. Now I get it. I have been doing research for almost 5 years now and say what you will, her site stinks, she has a poor ego that needs rubbing and I think that there are more then 13 people signed up to this mailing list. If there are only 13 people signed onto this mailing list, then that does show this site really is useless. A good web site has a bunch of people signed onto the mailing list and the mailing list is active. The only mail I ever receive from this list is from her and all she ever does is to tell us about all the almost complete, but not quite info she herself has put on-line to help us. Let me guess, after that then all 13 of you write to rub her ego and tell her how great she is and how she is right up there with God. Wow, maybe I should bow my head, she could be the next Mother Teresa, right? Listen folks, you can bad mouth me all you want, but if you read what you wrote, all of you stated it in one way or another, she does this for attention, free information is being paid for and at the first sound of her leaving, 13 people run after her and beg her to stay. What a joke! Why not let her leave, maybe we can get Amy back and then something of use or at least complete will go on-line. Not only does she NOT have a life, but neither do you. Someone else stated I have no idea what is involved in information on the internet. Excuse me, have you looked around, it can't be that hard with so many different web sites out there. I am no computer geek, but her site isn't as fancy as others, so where is her time and YOUR money going? Well, she can maybe blast 13 of you into a dream world, but I am not the only one who sees through her lies. Not everyone agrees with you. This guy wrote to me and said he had enough and even wanted off of her mailing list and she wouldn't let him off. Here, maybe if I post his e-mail to the mailing list then perhaps he will be removed. He wrote and asked me to remove him from the Sheboygan mailing list. Now isn't that pathetic. Here Mrs. Ever-so-wonderful please remove this guy from your list, he has had enough of your useless site and ego rubbing and even dumber updates of incomplete information. BnanaSmurf@aol.com wants to get off of this dumb list. Are you smart enough to remove him or does he need to pay you to remove him or perhaps he needs to beg and plead to have this done. Maybe you won't even do it because that would mean even less people on your mailing list. Isn't there a minimum number of people needed to be signed up in order to have a mailing list. Getting pretty low there, aren't you? Most of you blew this way out of proportion, all I wanted to do was to help her have a site she could be proud of, maybe if I would have wrote sooner, even her momma wouldn't have died of shame. Why don't all of you mighty mouth people ask yourself a few questions. Ask yourself if the census information, I believe she called it an index, has been useful to you? Where are the cemeteries? Have you ever heard of a genealogy web site with no cemeteries on it? She has a newspaper article section, where are they? Have any of you found this to be useful? How many people used the vital indexes and found something you didn't already have, especially with no parent names listed? She has a veterans memorial listed, how many people found something useful from there? Let's face it, if you didn't know your ancestor already died in a war, what information that she has listed has been of help to you? There are no parent names, death dates, location of death, events surrounding the death or even a stinking ID number to even help a researcher to look for more information. I stated last night I didn't mean to sound like a snot, I was trying to point out where her site lacks and let's face it everyone, that is all her site does is lack. It lacks the information needed to be of use to the researcher. You still have to go elsewhere, look someplace else or pay someone else for this information. Her site isn't useful to a serious researcher. Maybe to a new person this site is God's gift to researchers, but to a person who has been doing this for as many years as I have, there is nothing of use there. Go back and read the letters that I received, go past the nastiness and read what was said. She gives you a little bit, you still need to pay someone else for the useful stuff. Someone mentioned a research center, if Sheboygan has one, why isn't she going like her head is on fire to this research center and doing her copying there and putting this information on-line? Read what was written, it was said over and over, people are paying her and then having to go elsewhere to pay more to someone else for something they can use. Without trying to blast me into your dream world, would someone please explain how this is useful? Can all 13 of you people or anyone else, if there is anyone else on this mailing list share a success with us? Can anyone on this mailing list write and honestly say that they went onto her pile of bits and pieces site and found something they had been looking and looking for? Has anyone ever been able to use this haphazard site and say to us that they managed to get over or around the brick wall they have hit by something she has on this site? If so, please I would love to know it, also let us know how long you have been researching. Like I said to a new person, this site could be the cat's meow. Despite what 13 of you thought, I never meant to make it sound like I wanted Debbie to give up her site, she sure turned it into that though, didn't she? I just wanted to point out to her that she needs to add something we can use. I am getting tired of waiting to find something useful on this site. I have several brick walls in Sheboygan and have been waiting and hoping that she would someday add something I could use to even nick those bricks, but there is nothing there. If this is her site, why are so many of you having to add your information to make it "Great"? I am done trying to help her and all of you to have a site that is of use. I tried to be nice in my last letter and all of you were rude and nasty. I think Debbie knows I speak the truth, if you noticed, she didn't tell me to go fly or that I was full of it, she almost seemed to be trying to convince me of the greatness in this site. If I was so full of it, then why didn't Debbi blast me like all of the ego rubbers did? Yes, you must be right, her site is just awesome. NOT! By the way, this letter was meant to be snotty, so how do you like it? I guess my parents were right when they told me that if you speak the truth you will have people jumping all over you because not many can accept the truth. They told me I would someday be surprised as to how much the truth can really hurt. My parents were right as always and it sure does show here, now doesn't it? Maybe I was wrong in writing my last letter, I guess I assumed more then just one guy would be brave enough to try to get something we could use on this site, I never thought poor Debie had to be treated like glass so her little ego didn't break. Please forgive me for rocking her boat. ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

Kritsti, You are very, very wrong! I cannot stress this enough. You were way out of line in your comments to Debie. She has done an excellent job on administering the website. You only have to visit other counties around the US to realize how well she has done and how much more information is available on this site than others. If you expect every last detail to be all laid out for you so that you don't have to do any digging yourself then you are mistaken, and do not understand this hobby. Satisfaction and a sense of accomplishment comes from the search and the efforts your put forth. Debbie has provided the basis for you to find your connections and minimized the effort it takes to locate records (especially if you can't get to the courthouse to go through the indexes yourself). You can take it from this point and order the records yourself to find the additional information you are seeking. Information is added to the site by Debie and other contributors as well. It takes a considerable amount of time, effort and money to purchase, transcribe and enter these records on the site. All of the contributors are volunteers who take their personal time to continually improve the site and make more information available to others. I haven't seen your name in the list of contributors of material or funds. I believe that you owe Debie a public apology on this. Randy Leonard

Sorry Kristi, but I for one have to take issue with your tone. Please remember that this is a site run totally by volunteers, who have lives of their own. There's nothing wrong with asking Debie the "method to her madness" so to speak, but to then declare that the site is useless because it doesn't conform to the way you think it should is going way overboard and is long past rude and arrogant. Debie has done a great job with this site (which is free remember) and is doing a great service for genealogists. As others have said, this particular site is one of the most useful free sites on the Internet. I wish other sites would do even half as much as has been done here (very few come close to even going that far). I especially like that parental information has been and is being added to the vital indexes, which is going above and beyond what others have done. In case you weren't aware of it, the state birth indexes for the counties that start with "S" are really messed up and Sheboygan's information is listed under another county. Deb's site is really useful in helping to sort that out. You want actual census records? Then go to the National Archives, or rent the rolls from the Archives through your library or the Mormon Church, or pay Ancestry.com $59.95/yr or Familytreemaker.com $99/yr for a census subscription. You don't think much about the amount of marriage information? Be patient or volunteer to help. Or you can rent the state marriage indexes through the Mormon church and find who you are looking for and then rent that microfilm. Or you can write to the Sheboygan County Registar's office and ask for who you need and pay $14 per marriage record (assuming you don't know the roll and page # beforehand). If you don't like the site the way it is, then be patient, or volunteer to help, or go do your own site the way you want it (and see how hard it is), or just don't use it and see if you can find anything else half as useful and at no cost. At the very least, please provide _constructive_ criticism, not snotty complaints. Deb, you probably don't get all the thanks you deserve for doing this. I've thanked you before privately, but I want to thank you again publicly. Don't let the non-constructive criticisms get to you. Perhaps this incident is a good thing, in that hopefully listers will respond with how much you are appreciated. -- Dana in MD

Hi Linda, No ignorance seen here at all, only ignorant question in my book is one never asked. Josiah Wright is listed on the Veterans Memorial because he was killed during the civil war. All of the people listed on the memorial for each war died as a result of that war. The Veterans Memorial is located in Sheboygan near the Memorial mall on a frontage road next to highway 23. There are pictures of the memorial on the website if you would like to see what it looks like. Hope this helped, Debie

Debie & fellow Sheboygan list members, I hope you'll forgive me for also posting to the list, but I've got to say that I've been doing genealogy for 25 years now, and being at quite a distance (California) and unable to run "a few miles" into town to do research, the Sheboygan page is one of the best, if not THE best I've come across. Under "Vital Records" so many other pages simply print an address to write to. Now THAT is disappointing! At least here I can look up my ancestor's name, and if it is listed, I know I can write for more info & it will be there. Debie, you've put not only time and effort into the site, but also of your own money, and I, for one, really appreciate all you've done. Please, keep up the good work. I wish I were closer so that I could help more. Thank you Debie, and all who have contributed to make this site what it is! Bonnie Hartmann Laguna Beach, California

I just found my great great grandfathers brothers name (Josiah Wright) listed among those in the Sheboygan County Civil War Veteran Memorial. Pardon my ignorance but can someone tell me what the Civil War Veterans Memorial is and where it is located? Linda Wright