Hi All, I actually sent this report several days ago but apparently made an addressing error. Sorry. Hope it is useful. Hi All, The following is my summary of recent research in Westmoreland Co. & the LVA on this man. John Winn of Westmoreland Co.,Va. My goal here was to see what Westmoreland co. records do exist for John Winn, his alleged marriage to Elizabeth Minor, and for any children. The records on "John Winn" are meager. At Montross, the county seat of Westmoreland, the Westmld.Hist.Soc. has a little museum and an excellent research library, just across from the CH. This county has a continuous series of Order Books from 1653, as well as Wills, etc. 1657 - 'Jno. Winn' is one of 40 headrights claimed by Robert Vaulx, Merchant, for 2000 ac. of land in Westmoreland co. [Nugent, Cavaliers & Pioneers, v.1:366]. >From Order Books 1653-1721, transcribed by John F. Dorman: 1669 - John Winn is a witness for the sale of patent of George & Eliz. Richmond to Thomas Barrett. [Deeds & Pat. 1665-1677, Pt. 1:78]. 1670 - "Mr. Winn" is on a list of men whose debts were not paid to Mr. Henry Brett. [Ibid, Pt. II:5]. 1718 - John Winn, with others, is ordered to answer charges made by the Grand Jury. [Apparently for failing to attend church or otherwise offending some propriety]. [Order Bk 1705-1721, Pt. VII:74,77}. That's it. Dorman's series of transcriptions end in 1721 and doubtless more data could be gleaned from the later books available in the CH. These items seem to refer to the same man from 1657 to 1670 but the gap to 1718 seems to great to be the same man. Possible but unlikely. The almost complete absence of entries reflecting any service - ie.: on juries and involvement in court suits - suggests he was a small farmer. There is no will or estate administration; no marriage bond; no sign (except the 1718 item) of children. Many accounts of John Winn say he died in 1694. There is no sign of what this is based on but is not unreasonable, if he truly arrived in Virginia in 1657 or a few years before. There was no sign of a parish register or vestry book for Cople parish but the LVA does have a history publ. 1999 which I have not seen. But this John Winn surely could not have married Elizabeth Minor, the youngest daughter of John Minor (1652-1698). John Minor was a prominent and wealthy land-owner, tavern keeper, and public official (Under-sheriff; Jailor). Many record entries reflect his involvement with the largest land-owners. His will [Deeds & Wills No.2, p. 182] was written on 30 March 1698 and probated on 22 Feb. 1699. He names four children; Elizabeth Minor, the youngest, receives 200 ac "next adjacent to her sister Frances Minor's land". Her mother, "Ellenor" married again right away, in 1700, usually a sign that she had children to care for and no married child to live with. Nicholas Minor, John Minor's eldest, does not appear in county records until 1708 but is cited frequently thereafter. My estimate is that John & Ellenor Minor married abt. 1670-80, and that Elizabeth, the fourth, was born in the 1680's. Even if John Winn did not die in 1694, it is most unlikely for him to have become the husband of Elizabeth Minor. Age, social status, a total absence of any record of marriage --- nothing supports the idea. Many have cited William Avery Miner's " Descendants of John Minor" who traces both the Minor and Winn lines, beginning with this alleged marriage. But probably few have noted that Miner clearly states "Thus far there is no documentary proof of this marriage, but it is believed to be correct since John Winn is known to have married an Elizabeth Minor in Westmoreland county, Va., at that time". [Miner 1983, p.1]. Later, buried at the end among other sources is a note that he got much of the information about this marriage and its descendants from Dennis R. Wynn as FGS's for which "Sources of data are not given …" and the reader is referred to Mr. Wynn for any questions. 'Nuff said. The most likely propagator of this alleged marriage and a set of children is the well-intentioned but confused Dr. W.W. Smith, who is given as a source of this info by Dean F. Winn in his "Notes on the Winn Family …" (ca.1953), p.13. Dean Winn elected to start his account with Minor Winn as the first for whom a documentary record could be found. Good idea. Dennis Wynn sent me a xerox copy of Dean Winn's book. So the circle is complete. I'll be happy to discuss any aspect of this. Myles Johnson

Dear Myles, To round this out, could you show us a chart on what you believe John Winn's line actually is? Could this chart show a couple of generations before him an a couple after him? Cuz Becky ttg-inc@attbi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Myles Johnson" <mylesj@his.com> To: <WINN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 8:22 PM Subject: [WINN] John Winn of Westmoreland Hi All, I actually sent this report several days ago but apparently made an addressing error. Sorry. Hope it is useful. Hi All, The following is my summary of recent research in Westmoreland Co. & the LVA on this man. John Winn of Westmoreland Co.,Va. My goal here was to see what Westmoreland co. records do exist for John Winn, his alleged marriage to Elizabeth Minor, and for any children. The records on "John Winn" are meager. At Montross, the county seat of Westmoreland, the Westmld.Hist.Soc. has a little museum and an excellent research library, just across from the CH. This county has a continuous series of Order Books from 1653, as well as Wills, etc. 1657 - 'Jno. Winn' is one of 40 headrights claimed by Robert Vaulx, Merchant, for 2000 ac. of land in Westmoreland co. [Nugent, Cavaliers & Pioneers, v.1:366]. >From Order Books 1653-1721, transcribed by John F. Dorman: 1669 - John Winn is a witness for the sale of patent of George & Eliz. Richmond to Thomas Barrett. [Deeds & Pat. 1665-1677, Pt. 1:78]. 1670 - "Mr. Winn" is on a list of men whose debts were not paid to Mr. Henry Brett. [Ibid, Pt. II:5]. 1718 - John Winn, with others, is ordered to answer charges made by the Grand Jury. [Apparently for failing to attend church or otherwise offending some propriety]. [Order Bk 1705-1721, Pt. VII:74,77}. That's it. Dorman's series of transcriptions end in 1721 and doubtless more data could be gleaned from the later books available in the CH. These items seem to refer to the same man from 1657 to 1670 but the gap to 1718 seems to great to be the same man. Possible but unlikely. The almost complete absence of entries reflecting any service - ie.: on juries and involvement in court suits - suggests he was a small farmer. There is no will or estate administration; no marriage bond; no sign (except the 1718 item) of children. Many accounts of John Winn say he died in 1694. There is no sign of what this is based on but is not unreasonable, if he truly arrived in Virginia in 1657 or a few years before. There was no sign of a parish register or vestry book for Cople parish but the LVA does have a history publ. 1999 which I have not seen. But this John Winn surely could not have married Elizabeth Minor, the youngest daughter of John Minor (1652-1698). John Minor was a prominent and wealthy land-owner, tavern keeper, and public official (Under-sheriff; Jailor). Many record entries reflect his involvement with the largest land-owners. His will [Deeds & Wills No.2, p. 182] was written on 30 March 1698 and probated on 22 Feb. 1699. He names four children; Elizabeth Minor, the youngest, receives 200 ac "next adjacent to her sister Frances Minor's land". Her mother, "Ellenor" married again right away, in 1700, usually a sign that she had children to care for and no married child to live with. Nicholas Minor, John Minor's eldest, does not appear in county records until 1708 but is cited frequently thereafter. My estimate is that John & Ellenor Minor married abt. 1670-80, and that Elizabeth, the fourth, was born in the 1680's. Even if John Winn did not die in 1694, it is most unlikely for him to have become the husband of Elizabeth Minor. Age, social status, a total absence of any record of marriage --- nothing supports the idea. Many have cited William Avery Miner's " Descendants of John Minor" who traces both the Minor and Winn lines, beginning with this alleged marriage. But probably few have noted that Miner clearly states "Thus far there is no documentary proof of this marriage, but it is believed to be correct since John Winn is known to have married an Elizabeth Minor in Westmoreland county, Va., at that time". [Miner 1983, p.1]. Later, buried at the end among other sources is a note that he got much of the information about this marriage and its descendants from Dennis R. Wynn as FGS's for which "Sources of data are not given ." and the reader is referred to Mr. Wynn for any questions. 'Nuff said. The most likely propagator of this alleged marriage and a set of children is the well-intentioned but confused Dr. W.W. Smith, who is given as a source of this info by Dean F. Winn in his "Notes on the Winn Family ." (ca.1953), p.13. Dean Winn elected to start his account with Minor Winn as the first for whom a documentary record could be found. Good idea. Dennis Wynn sent me a xerox copy of Dean Winn's book. So the circle is complete. I'll be happy to discuss any aspect of this. Myles Johnson

Hi Becky, I really have no idea where this John Winn fits in. Certainly no idea of his ancestry and I don't even see any evidence sufficient to identify a family. The children assigned to him in the various and different assortments in the published genealogies were, I think, attempts to create a family that, in fact, never existed, not to deceive anyone but just because some folks thought there must have been such a family. Sorry I can't be any more help than that. Myles Johnson ********************************************************* The Thill Group Inc wrote: > > Dear Myles, > To round this out, could you show us a chart on what you believe John Winn's > line actually is? Could this chart show a couple of generations before him > an a couple after him? > Cuz Becky > ttg-inc@attbi.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Myles Johnson" <mylesj@his.com> > To: <WINN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 8:22 PM > Subject: [WINN] John Winn of Westmoreland > > Hi All, > I actually sent this report several days ago but apparently made an > addressing error. Sorry. Hope it is useful. > > Hi All, > The following is my summary of recent research in Westmoreland Co. & the > LVA on this man. > > John Winn of Westmoreland Co.,Va. > > My goal here was to see what Westmoreland co. records do exist for John > Winn, his alleged marriage to Elizabeth Minor, and for any children. The > records on "John Winn" are meager. At Montross, the county seat of > Westmoreland, the Westmld.Hist.Soc. has a little museum and an excellent > research library, just across from the CH. This county has a continuous > series of Order Books from 1653, as well as Wills, etc. > > 1657 - 'Jno. Winn' is one of 40 headrights claimed by Robert Vaulx, > Merchant, for 2000 ac. of land in Westmoreland co. [Nugent, Cavaliers & > Pioneers, v.1:366]. > > >From Order Books 1653-1721, transcribed by John F. Dorman: > 1669 - John Winn is a witness for the sale of patent of George & Eliz. > Richmond to Thomas Barrett. [Deeds & Pat. 1665-1677, Pt. > 1:78]. > > 1670 - "Mr. Winn" is on a list of men whose debts were not paid to Mr. > Henry Brett. > [Ibid, Pt. II:5]. > > 1718 - John Winn, with others, is ordered to answer charges made by the > Grand Jury. > [Apparently for failing to attend church or otherwise offending some > propriety]. > [Order Bk 1705-1721, Pt. VII:74,77}. > > That's it. Dorman's series of transcriptions end in 1721 and doubtless > more data could be gleaned from the later books available in the CH. > > These items seem to refer to the same man from 1657 to 1670 but the gap > to 1718 seems to great to be the same man. Possible but unlikely. The > almost complete absence of entries reflecting any service - ie.: on > juries and involvement in court suits - suggests he was a small farmer. > > There is no will or estate administration; no marriage bond; no sign > (except the 1718 item) of children. Many accounts of John Winn say he > died in 1694. There is no sign of what this is based on but is not > unreasonable, if he truly arrived in Virginia in 1657 or a few years > before. There was no sign of a parish register or vestry book for Cople > parish but the LVA does have a history publ. 1999 which I have not > seen. > > But this John Winn surely could not have married Elizabeth Minor, the > youngest daughter of John Minor (1652-1698). John Minor was a prominent > and wealthy land-owner, tavern keeper, and public official > (Under-sheriff; Jailor). Many record entries reflect his involvement > with the largest land-owners. His will [Deeds & Wills No.2, p. 182] was > written on 30 March 1698 and probated on 22 Feb. 1699. He names four > children; Elizabeth Minor, the youngest, receives 200 ac "next adjacent > to her sister Frances Minor's land". Her mother, "Ellenor" married again > right away, in 1700, usually a sign that she had children to care for > and no married child to live with. > > Nicholas Minor, John Minor's eldest, does not appear in county records > until 1708 but is cited frequently thereafter. My estimate is that John > & Ellenor Minor married abt. 1670-80, and that Elizabeth, the fourth, > was born in the 1680's. > > Even if John Winn did not die in 1694, it is most unlikely for him to > have become the husband of Elizabeth Minor. Age, social status, a > total absence of any record of marriage --- nothing supports the idea. > > Many have cited William Avery Miner's " Descendants of John Minor" who > traces both the Minor and Winn lines, beginning with this alleged > marriage. But probably few have noted that Miner clearly states "Thus > far there is no documentary proof of this marriage, but it is believed > to be correct since John Winn is known to have married an Elizabeth > Minor in Westmoreland county, Va., at that time". [Miner 1983, p.1]. > Later, buried at the end among other sources is a note that he got much > of the information about this marriage and its descendants from Dennis > R. Wynn as FGS's for which "Sources of data are not given ." and the > reader is referred to Mr. Wynn for any questions. 'Nuff said. > > The most likely propagator of this alleged marriage and a set of > children is the well-intentioned but confused Dr. W.W. Smith, who is > given as a source of this info by Dean F. Winn in his "Notes on the Winn > Family ." (ca.1953), p.13. Dean Winn elected to start his account with > Minor Winn as the first for whom a documentary record could be found. > Good idea. Dennis Wynn sent me a xerox copy of Dean Winn's book. So the > circle is complete. > > I'll be happy to discuss any aspect of this. > > Myles Johnson