In a message dated 12/29/2003 7:06:57 AM Central Standard Time, avkadams@yahoo.com writes: > I still have not checked on Gloucester and Sarah very much, just wondering > how the conclusion was reached that Sarah was Pamunkey? Ken, I have not been able to verify if it is Gloucester or Sarah who is Pamunkey or perhaps neither. Here is what I know for sure and quandries I have about the spotty information. 1. Gloucester and Sarah were land owners (if Gloucester was Native Amercian could he be a land owner? Conversely could women own land during this period of time? Helen Roundtree in,"Pocahontas's People", refer to Gloucester and Sarah as white land owners (if this conjecture on her part?) Roundtree also says that daughter Nancy and Oney appear later as wives of Pamunkey's (I have not been able to locate the marriage certificate she refers to) Could Sarah have been a Winn who owned land and she married a NA and they used her name rather than his Native name. Could he have picked up the name of an interpreter (I understand Thomas was an interpreter for the Pamunkeys)? If Gloucester is the white Winn who owned land why have I reached a dead end with him? Where did he come from? 2. One of there sons was William (my ggg grandfather).William served in the Revolutionary war (I have a copy of his application for pension). Would a full blooded native American have served and be eligible for a Pension? Would it make a difference if he was 1/2 NA? 3. When Williams son, Ferdinand, filed a claim with the Civil War Commission he stated (in trying to prove he was not a southern sympathizer) that his father William was Native American. This should mean that William was at least 1/2 which would mean that Gloucester or Sarah would have to be NA. 4. Theodore Stern wrote in "Chickahominy: A Virginia Community Indian": "There are lines in which the Indians themselves assert to descent from white ancestor .... among the Chickahominy, the Winn family claim as ancestor a man who is said to have passed through the country during the Revolutionary War in George Wahington's train. He seemed to have settled at Pamunkey, for his descendant in the early nineteenth century is noted as a fisher from that band." Later on in the article he writes "In the Wynn line enters one of the most unualy individuals. As relate above (refers to George Washington troops).... He seems to have settled at Pamunkey, for the earliest link in the geology is described as a fisherman from that band. He moved to the vicinity of Mt. Olivet Church near the head of Rumley Marsh and far to the the North of of the Chickahominy River. Here is 1837 a son, Ferdinand, was born" It sounds like the individual in George Washingtons' troops would be William since we know he was in the Revolutionary War. Gloucester and Sarahs land was in King William County "8 miles west of the Courthouse." What is the location of the land mentioned above to the Glousester land? As you can see I have much that needs to be filled in. Any response to my questions would be appreciated. I would dearly love to see a copy of the marriage certificate Roundtree refers too. If you happen to come across this please let me know. Her is what she wrote in her book: "Gloucester Wynne (d 1802) and his wife and children appear as white land landowners being taxed in the county land books. Two daughters had names (Nancy and Oney) which appear later as Wynn wives of Pamunkey men (marriage records of their children, in turn, which lists parents names). From the estimated ages of Glouster's daughters, I infer that it was a family name, and also a son Ferdinand Sr., who in turn named of his sons Glouster; these family connections are, however, conjectural in the absence of concrete evidence." Happy New Year to All, Paul Wynne

Paul, I have located the land where Gloucester lived. Actually at one time it was known as Wintown. Also, there is a church close to Pamunkey with Wynn names in the cemetery. My gggrandfather was Miles Winn, who transferred land to the other Gloucester in 1858. If Ferdinand was the father of the second Gloucester, I believe also he was the father of Miles. I think Miles and Gloucester were brothers, but cannot prove it. Hopefully one day we can talk. My phone number is 804-769-3378. I live in King William and grew up only two miles from "Wintown". I also found a deed where Ferdinand Sr, sold land to William and Mary College. That was around 1815. Any way, hope we continue to communicate. I have some old records of Winns in King William. JaPawynne@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 12/29/2003 7:06:57 AM Central Standard Time, avkadams@yahoo.com writes: > I still have not checked on Gloucester and Sarah very much, just wondering > how the conclusion was reached that Sarah was Pamunkey? Ken, I have not been able to verify if it is Gloucester or Sarah who is Pamunkey or perhaps neither. Here is what I know for sure and quandries I have about the spotty information. 1. Gloucester and Sarah were land owners (if Gloucester was Native Amercian could he be a land owner? Conversely could women own land during this period of time? Helen Roundtree in,"Pocahontas's People", refer to Gloucester and Sarah as white land owners (if this conjecture on her part?) Roundtree also says that daughter Nancy and Oney appear later as wives of Pamunkey's (I have not been able to locate the marriage certificate she refers to) Could Sarah have been a Winn who owned land and she married a NA and they used her name rather than his Native name. Could he have picked up the name of an interpreter (I understand Thomas was an interpreter for the Pamunkeys)? If Gloucester is the white Winn who owned land why have I reached a dead end with him? Where did he come from? 2. One of there sons was William (my ggg grandfather).William served in the Revolutionary war (I have a copy of his application for pension). Would a full blooded native American have served and be eligible for a Pension? Would it make a difference if he was 1/2 NA? 3. When Williams son, Ferdinand, filed a claim with the Civil War Commission he stated (in trying to prove he was not a southern sympathizer) that his father William was Native American. This should mean that William was at least 1/2 which would mean that Gloucester or Sarah would have to be NA. 4. Theodore Stern wrote in "Chickahominy: A Virginia Community Indian": "There are lines in which the Indians themselves assert to descent from white ancestor .... among the Chickahominy, the Winn family claim as ancestor a man who is said to have passed through the country during the Revolutionary War in George Wahington's train. He seemed to have settled at Pamunkey, for his descendant in the early nineteenth century is noted as a fisher from that band." Later on in the article he writes "In the Wynn line enters one of the most unualy individuals. As relate above (refers to George Washington troops).... He seems to have settled at Pamunkey, for the earliest link in the geology is described as a fisherman from that band. He moved to the vicinity of Mt. Olivet Church near the head of Rumley Marsh and far to the the North of of the Chickahominy River. Here is 1837 a son, Ferdinand, was born" It sounds like the individual in George Washingtons' troops would be William since we know he was in the Revolutionary War. Gloucester and Sarahs land was in King William County "8 miles west of the Courthouse." What is the location of the land mentioned above to the Glousester land? As you can see I have much that needs to be filled in. Any response to my questions would be appreciated. I would dearly love to see a copy of the marriage certificate Roundtree refers too. If you happen to come across this please let me know. Her is what she wrote in her book: "Gloucester Wynne (d 1802) and his wife and children appear as white land landowners being taxed in the county land books. Two daughters had names (Nancy and Oney) which appear later as Wynn wives of Pamunkey men (marriage records of their children, in turn, which lists parents names). From the estimated ages of Glouster's daughters, I infer that it was a family name, and also a son Ferdinand Sr., who in turn named of his sons Glouster; these family connections are, however, conjectural in the absence of concrete evidence." Happy New Year to All, Paul Wynne --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003