I am trying to work through some information sent to me about John Wynn /Sidney Gerard, and their son Robert... Is it confirmed that Robert Wynn son of John Wynn/Sidney Gerard and Robert Wynne who married Frances Wattmer are not the same people? Does anyone have the father of Robert Wynne who married Frances Wattmer? Myles Johnson, one of our WINN-L guru's... says the following.. Robert Wynne, (born ca.1560 in Shrewsbury; d.1609 Canterbury) was not from the Gwydir line, meaning that of John->Morus->Sir John John Wynn of Gwydir, according to the Caernarvonshire pedigrees by J.E. Griffith, as well as current historians, esp. J. Gwynfor Jones (The Wynn Family of Gwydir - 1995). The fact that Robert was born in Shrewsbury, in the Welsh border county of Shropshire, does seem to suggest a link somehow with the numerous progeny of Meredith ap Evan (d.1525). Griffith begins his chart on the Gwydir line with Owain Gwynedd thru son Rhodri (d.after 1188) so one could say that if Robert could claim descent from any of the many previous generations in that line, he was linked to the Gwydir line. But, so far as I know, no one has identified the parents or previous ancestry of Robert of Shrewsbury. So we don't know how he is connected altho it seems likely he that he is. One possible link is the neighboring Montgomeryshire Wynne family of Nicholas Wynne (d.1594) whose line also disappears into thin air before him. Nicholas' family did claim a connection --- never spelled out --- to the prominent Gwydir line.Their claim to the Gwydir arms (3 eaglets in fesse) was not recognized by the College of Arms but that still leaves lots of room for some kind of connection. Use of the arms was limited to desc. of 1st born sons. This Montgomershire line is the one represented in Anne Fremantle's "The Wynne Diaries". For now, one has to accept the fact that the line stops at Robert. This question of his ancestry should be answerable for someone with the ability to access Shropshire records but so far no one has tackled it. Any takers? And Cuz Connie Cole, GramereC@aol.com, says: The librarian in Canterbury who refers to them selves as Area Librarian offers to Rowe Wynn 1711S. 74th E. Avenue, Tulsa Oklahoma 74112, United States of America, an article "The Mayor of Canterbury: William Watmer, The Children Friend" by Dorothy Gardiner, F.S.A., published by the Kent Archaeological Society Vol LXI for 1948, this in 1981. I was provided with this reference and a family sheet compiled by Deloris Wynne-Riley 103 Hunters Branch South, San Antonio, TX 7823, September 25, 1978. On September 4th 1609 when Thomas Wynne was 17 Robert Wynne his father died, two days later his mother Frances died. They were buried together on the 8th at St. George's Church. Some three weeks later it was confirmed as Plague. William Watmer removed the five orphaned children from the home. The children's names are reported as Thomas, Peter, John, Elizabeth, and Anne Wynne. Sara Effield the orphan daughter of Christopher Effield brewer was also in residence with the five Wynne children. Watmer himself was also mayor of Canterbury 1608-1609 and also in 1629. Many of the merchants in the area contributed clothing for the children. Peter and John Wynne were sent to board with Rowland Dixon the Tailor. Watmer took Elizabeth and Anne Wynne as well as Sara Effield into his home. On July 14th 1612 Thomas Wynne who would now be 21 took over the care and charge of his sisters. Elizabeth Wynne married Paul Maye a vintner St. Andrews Parish on May 18th 1616. Nothing more is known of Anne. Mr. Daniell Marsh took Thomas as a grocer's apprentice. John and Peter attended King's School while Roger Ravens was headmaster. An additional article Reprinted from Arcaeologia Cantiana CII (1985) sheds further light on things. Watmer was not from Canterbury but rather from Shropshire, and he was a farmer's son. Descendants of his nephews and wards settled in the America Colonies. In an application for arms William Watmer applied for the arms of a distant kinsman Francis Watmough of Lancashire. Watmer was claiming to descend from William Watmere and Margaret daughter of Thomas Sparkes of Scotedon Salop, and ultimately from John Watmough of Eccleston Lancashire. In 1590 Watmer set of to Canterbury for legal training. The strongest reason for leaving for Canterbury was a familial tie to the Wynnes of Canterbury. This Wynne family also originated in Shropshire. In Robert Wynne's will Frances Wynne is defined as William Watmers sister. Robert Wynne of Jordan's Parrish Charles City in Virginia. Son of Peter Wynne, grandson of Robert and Frances Watmer Wynne. Will July 10, 1675 proved August 15, 1678. Virginia Colonies. His estate in England To eldest son Thomas farm in Whitestaple Parish in Kent near Canterbury, named Linebett Banckes. Son Joshua then daughter Woodleif. Two houses in Canterbury St. Mildred's parish. Son Joshua on house and Oatmeal Mill in Dover Lane St. George's Canterbury. Virginia estate to sons Thomas and Joshua. Joshua plantation called George's. Grandson George Woodleif a foal. Residual estate to wife Mary Wynne also names son in law Frances Poythres. Thomas Wynne son of Robert was living in Prince George County 1707. he was then about age 50. This Thomas Wynne had a wife Agnes, and son Robert Wynne, and daughter Mary Melone as seen in Deed of transfer 1707. Joshua Wynne son of Robert Wynne with his wife deeded a transfer in 1708 land in Surry Prince George County. The above is taken from an unmarked excerpt about Merchants Hope Church the oldest Protestant Church standing in America. Watmer's third marriage was to Mary daughter of Giles Masters. She had five sisters. On of her sisters Elizabeth was married to Herbert Randolph, Edmund Randolph married Deborah Masters. Mary Masters Watmer had a son Giles Watmer. And two daughter Mary and Dorothy. Dorothy died young. Giles Watmer first cousin to Thomas Wynne Grocer in London married another of his cousins Mary the daughter of Herbert and Elizabeth in 1652. Edward Randolph the son of Edmund and Deborah Masters Randolph was instrumental in the formation and development of Massachusetts as a colony but died in Virginia. The Wynne boys Thomas, Peter, and John were the first cousins of Giles Watmer. Giles Watmer was a shared cousin between the Wynne's and the Randolph's. Thomas Wynne becomes a grocer, John a musician, Peter is a notary public. Peter is reported to be the father of Robert who has a will in America and is Speaker of the house of Burgess for twelve years. Then I have: Poythress Allied Family Information, By William D. Lindsey indsch19@ally.ios.com Overview of Wynne Family in England Most of what I am summarizing here is from two published studies by cousins of mine: Charles Arthur Wynn, Jr. and Louise Tompkins Wynn, A FAMILY HISTORY OF THE WYNNS (WINN, WYNNE) OF VIRGINIA, NORTH CAROLINA, AND GEORGIA AND OTHER RELATED LINES (712 Bluefish Dr., P.O. Box 28025, Panama City Beach, FL 32411); and Frederick Ware Huff, FOUR FAMILIES: WINN, THOMAS, WARE, GARRETT OF THE SOUTHERN UNITED STATES FROM 1600S TO 1993 (Kennesaw, GA; 1993). Charles and Louise Wynn note that much of their research on the English background of the family reproduces information in John Bennett Boddie, VIRGINIA HISTORICAL GENEALOGIES (Baltimore: Geneal. Publ. Co., 1965), 174-7. These sources say that the Wynne family is first mentioned in the records of Canterbury, England, in 1356, when John Wynne appears as a member of Parliament from Canterbury. From then to Robert Wynne, Mayor of Canterbury in 1599, the name appears often in the records of Canterbury. Robert Wynne, mayor of Canterbury, was the grandfather of Col. Robert Wynne, speaker of the House of Burgesses in VA in 1661-74. It was this Robert Wynne who m. Mrs. Mary Poythress. The Wynnes were members of the Wollendrapers Guild of Canterbury. Robert Wynne, mayor of Canterbury was buried at St. Georges in Canterbury on 6 Sept. 1609, his unnamed wife being buried two days later (Wynns, citing St. Georges Psh. Register). Thomas Wynne, his son, married Mary Wickham of Faversham, Co. Kent, at Onspringe on 20 July 1613 (citing Canterbury Marriage Licenses, 1568-1618, p. 458). On 20 July 1629, Mary Wickham was buried, and Thomas Wynne of the Almony of St. Augustine, Canterbury, married the widow of James Nichols at St. Martins in Canterbury on 26 Oct. 1629. But none of it tells us who Robert's parents are...Do you know? Becky Thill ttg-inc@attbi.com http://www.ttg-inc.net http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ttg13/