Larry could not post to the list so I am feeding this through Connie Robert L. Wynne [mailto:rlwynne@astound.net] Randy- Dennis Ray Wynn’s reference to J. Rives Childs article appearing in the VA Mag. of Hist. & Bio. has been completely researched and disproved. Childs was working on the assumption that the claim by Richard Wynne of Montgomeryshire and London – a very wealthy Shrewsbury woolendraper – to the arms of Gwydir and descent from Sir John Wynn of Gwydir was correct. The College of Arms had to redact Richard Wynne’s claim sometime after publication in “The Wynne Diaries” by Anne Fremantle that the claimed pedigree of this line of Wynne was disproved. That said I await confirmation one way or the other by way of Y DNA testing whether it is possible that Thomas Wynne who is known to have “lived in Virginia, married and had issue” [per a 17th C visitation] has a Y DNA match to persons bearing the Wynne surname in the US/Virginia and further may match descendants of the Royal tribe of Owain Gwynedd. Our VA line continues well nested in the Welsh Patronymics d base and is further confirmed by a positive L 21 SNP match to early Celtic Welsh DNA. Exactly how our L 21 SNP is connected to the early Welsh remains to be proven. It is theoretically possible that the claim by Richard Wynne to the arms of Gwydir is one made as a descendant to a common patriarch several generations earlier than the date when the Gwydir Wynne’s assumed the surname Wynne. For example it may be possible that both the Gwydir Wynne’s and Richard Wynne’s lineage derives from a common descent to Owain Gwynedd. This would allow for a relationship between the two families and accommodate the dis allowance of the right to bear arms by the College. I have copies of the original documents from Richard Wynne who made the claim as a funeral achievement in connection with his daughter who married Sir Abraham Reynardson, sometimes Lord Mayor of London. In this line is the famous Giustiniana Wynne whose marriage ruined the career of her husband as ambassador to the Austrian court in Venice as she could not provide her arms to accompany her husband’s in 12 quarters. In those days it was a pre requisite that both husband and wife have the right to bear arms to at least 32 quarterings in order to be heard at court. This situation is recounted on p. 312 of the “Wynne Diaries” in which Giustinian’s plea for a confirmation of arms was personally disallowed by none other than King George III though some of the family continued to perpetuate the myth of a relationship to Gwydir. This line of Richard Wynne is now maternally distincted in the line of the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos (see web site for the title and pedigree). Subsequent enquiries about this situation to the College of Arms in London confirm all of the above. This message can be forwarded to DRW if you like. Best Larry