In a message dated 7/10/2010 3:29:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, winn-request@rootsweb.com writes: I gather that the author of this is stephwm1, but as there is no signature I wonder who this is. Earl Ferguson Message: 1 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 17:35:12 -0000 From: "gc-gateway@rootsweb.com" <gc-gateway@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [WINN] George Winn of London, Draper 1634 To: <WINN-L@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <1278696912.475285@rootsweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: stephwm1 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.winn/1661.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Robert, Thank you for your recollection of a bible and other records used to construct the Winn descendant chart in "Ancestors and Descendants of John Quarles Winn and his wife Mary Liscome Jarvis, Baltimore." Your response led me to review the sources cited by the authors in that volume. Forgive me if it seems a bit redundant, but I would like to comment on the descendant chart in the context of those sources. Looking at page 147 of that volume, the authors listed Richard Winn of Middlesex County as First Generation. The christening records of Christ's Church, Middlesex County, were cited to establish the names and birth dates of Richard Winn's children (including an infant son Richard born in 1701 and an infant son John born in 1705). The names provided by the christening records establish that persons with those names were christened in Middlesex County, but the records provide no information about where those individuals later lived or died. The children of Richard Win! n could have remained in Middlesex, returned to England, or moved to any number of counties surrounding Middlesex. On page 147, the authors of "Winn/Jarvis" listed John Winn (m. Mary Pledger) and Richard Winn (m. Mrs. Phoebe Pledger) of Chickahominy Swamp in Hanover County as Second Generation, sons of Richard Winn of Middlesex County. No sources were cited, and no proof or explanation was offered as to why the authors thought John Winn and Richard Winn of Hanover County were the same persons as the infant sons born to Richard Winn in Middlesex County. By current standards of genealogy it is not enough to plug in names that match, and especially if those names are common given names and those names also occur in different counties. The parents of John Winn and Richard Winn of Hanover County were not established by the authors of "Winn/Jarvis." On pages 147-148, the authors listed John Winn (Second Generation) and wife, Mary Pledger, with a family of children (Third Generation). The source for the children's names was cited as an "Opinion" by Chief Justice Marshall on the resettlement of John Winn's estate "at one time in the possession of John Farmer Winn of Richmond, but now lost." It stands to reason that information from the Marshall opinion was passed down in the Winn family, and the authors' use of that information may have been substantially accurate. It's possible that a record of the opinion may still be extant amongst Justice Marshall's papers. Page 148 includes a citation of a bible record that contributed to the authors' documentation of Generation III. The bible appears to have been a Bowles Family Bible, as it listed the births of Thomas Bowles' two daughters who intermarried with two sons of John Winn and Mary Pledger. The source was cited simply as "(Bible)." Some of this may not be of particular interest to you, Robert, but for descendants of the Group K in the Winn DNA Project it is imperative to examine the validity of the premise that Richard Winn of Middlesex County was the proven ancestor of any individuals in Group K. For Group K, the earliest proven family groupings are Minor Winn/m. Margaret Conner, Richard Winn/m. Mrs. Phebe Pledger, John Winn/m. Mary Pledger, Daniel Winn/m. Sarah, and John Winn/m. Ann Stone. The original topic of George Winn, Draper, and your responses on the topic are all interesting. I have read the entire thread and always enjoy learning about earlier EWynne/Wynn/Winn families in England and Wales. Early records and the lapses in those records pose many pitfalls for our Wynne/Wynn/Winn research. Thanks again for your comments.