Dear Cuz's, This was written by our Cuz Myles from this e-mail list, and displayed on my website. This also was written back in Jan. 2000, I would love for Myles to rewrite it to include his recent information. Thanks again goes to Myles for writing this and for Roy for sharing it with the group. Cuz Becky Thill ttg-inc@attbi.com http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ttg13/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy" <ddmr@xcelco.on.ca> To: <WINN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 1:06 AM Subject: [WINN] Some information on the GWYNN /WYNNE name...interesting Rev. Jan., 2000 WYNN/WYNNES IN EARLY VIRGINIA I. What We Know Is NOT True: Some errors commonly found in genealogies. a. That Peter, Thomas, Edmund, and Owen Wynne/Winne came to Va. among the earliest settlers. Each of the above appear in the Records of the Virginia Company but Captain Peter Winne is the only one of these known to have arrived in Va. He came in September 1608 and died in the Spring of 1609, with no known issue. His family in England has not been established. [Brown, Genesis of the U.S., p.1055] Thomas Wynne appears as "Captaine Thomas Winne" on a List of Adventurerers to Va., in 1620 having paid o25, but this means only that he was an investor, as were hundreds of other men. The identity of this Thomas Wynne is not known with certainty but his title of Captain suggests that he was the Sir Thomas Winne who was killed in the seige of Breda in 1625. [Kingsbury, Records of the Va. Company v.III.] Edmund Winne, also appearing as an adventurer, is the only Wynne recorded as having received a patent for land [Kingsbury,v.I:632] but while he was still in England; there is no record of him living in Va.. Brown identitfies him as a "merchant-tailor" and the son of a George Wynne [Brown, Genesis - p.1055]. His patent was in the Southampton Hundred (Charles City Co. area). George Wynne was servant & Draper to Queen Elizabeth I and Edmund was involved in several of the overseas trading ventures of the time. [Robert Wynne, "A London Wynne and The Virginia Company", Wynne News No.7 (March 1999).] Owen Winne, or "Captaine Owen Winne", is also in the Va. Company List of Adventurers, but again there is no record of his coming to Va. It is possible that he was Owen Wynn, the son of Sir John Wynn of Gwydir, since Owen was in London about 1620 and could have invested in the new Va. project, but he is more likely associated with one the varius other Wynn/Wynne families of the time. His title of Captain suggests he was not Sir John's son, as that Owen had no such title. [Kingsbury, v.III]. b. That Sir Owen Wynne (or Gwynn), son of Sir John Wynn, came to Va. and left issue in Virginia. This is the most frequently published error. There is no record of an Owen Wynne or Gwynn in Virginia. Sir John's son, Owen, spent his life managing the Gwydir properties for his father, then for his older brother, Sir Richard, who preferred life in London, and finally on his own after he became the 4th Baronet of Gwydir in 1649. He had only two children: a daughter who died early and a son, Richard Wynne, who succeeded him as the 5th Bart. [There are several recent historical accounts of Owen and of the family of Gwydir, esp. J. G. Jones, The Wynn Family of Gwydir (1995)]. Several standard published accounts say Owen came to Va., had issue, and returned to Wales on becoming the 4th Bart.. His issue are sometimes given as Hugh Gwynn, the settler of Gwynn's Island, and sometime as John Winn, found later in Westmoreland Co. See the accounts on these below. One frequently cited "source" is F. Virkus, Compendium of American Genealogies, which is composed of individually submitted, unverified, amateur genealogies. As might be expected, of any undocumented compilation, it is a mixture of fact and fantasy. c. That a Winn/Wynne family of Va. descends from Sir John Wynn of Gwydir. Sir John Wynn (d.1626, aet 73) is famous as the author of 'The History of the Gwydir Family' and one of the most prominent Welshmen of his day. Althou gh he had twelve children - ten of whom were sons - his line ended with a grandson, Sir John Wynn (d.1719) who had no issue. No child or grandchild of this family ever emigrated to Va. Due to the prominence of Sir John Wynn, the common assumption was that any "Wynn/Wynne" had to be connected to him. In fact, there were a plethora of Wynn lines in Wales and England (usually 'Wynne' in England) by the early 1600's. [See Griffith, Pedigrees.] II. What We DO Know About Winn/Wynnes in Virginia. a. Why the surname appears in various spellings. In the 1500's and into the 1600's, the Welsh culture increasingly came to reflect that of England, in part because of repressive anti-Welsh laws and in part because ambitious Welshmen began to adopt English ways to gain favor at Court. The traditional naming practice, based on identifying one's father [e.g, John ap Evan], was gradually shifting to the use of a family surname. "Wynne" seems to have appeared as early as the 1300's in England but, in that case, is probably not connected to the later Welsh "Wynn" at all. "Wynn", or Gwynn, became used as a surname by several Welsh families in the 1500's. One Welsh surname authority [Morgan & Morgan, Welsh Surnames] explains the variation from 'Gwynn' to 'Wynn' as a softening in Welsh usage. Collateral lines, even members of the same line, are found using either spelling. Robert Wynn (d.1598) of Conway is recorded as using Gwynn, Wynn, and Wynne all at various, successive points in his career. Because Welsh pronounces each letter, the "Wynne" form is not used in a Welsh-speaking context. It represents an anglicization of the surname used by those either living in England or wishing to identify themselves as allied with English customs. "Winn" does not normally appear in Wales because the "y" is a particular vowel in Welsh, with a unique pronunciation; the "i" is a different sound in Welsh. "Winn" does appear later in South Wales and is still more common there. But the subtle difference in "y" would be lost in Virginia, and 'Winn' became the most common way to spell the surname in America. Only a few lines chose to retain the "Wynne" or "Gwynn" forms. b. What Wynn/Wynne immigrants to Virginia are known to have descendants? Robert Wynne, usually called Col. Robert Wynne, was born ca.1622, Canterbury, Eng. His ancestry has been traced back several generations in Canterbury. He was in Va. by 1658 when first named to the House of Burgesses from Charles City Co., which at that time included land on the south side of the James River (later, Prince George Co.). Col. Robert Wynne married Mary Frances (Sloman) Poythress, a widow, and had four children whose descendants spread south and west in Va. [See, Rubyn R. Ogburn, As I Was Told ... About the Ogburn & Wynne Family, (1958). (Website)www.home.att.net/~c.middleton - The Wynne Family, by Carol Middleton]. Hugh Gwynn arrived in Va. in 1621, settling in Charles River (later, York) Co. but by 1642 patented 1700 acres in Gloucester Co. His immediate issue are believed to include two sons, Hugh Gwynn and Rev. John Gwynn. There are several Gwynn lines that claim descent from this Gloucester/Mathews Co. family. No full accounts of this interesting family known to me. There is a short article in Wm & Mary Quarterly, v.18:60.]. Although widely published genealogies rarely get corrected, an exception is that of Stella P. Hardy, Colonial Families of the Southern States of America ,"Gwynn Family" pp.248-251, which was reviewed in the Va. Magazine of History & Biog., v.19, p.442. Anyone interested in this line should read this article. Richard Winn appears with a documented family in Middlesex Co. Christ Church records in the late 1600's. He m.(1) Sara (----)and had 7 chn. between 1698-1712 ; m.(2) Ann Cocke and had a son, Thomas. Though appearing late in the century, it is bellieved to descend from some earlier immigrant Wynne. This line has been traced and has a number of descendants today. [See, D.W. Winn, Ancestors & Desc. of John Quarles Winn (1932) Dean Winn, Notes on the Winn Family of VA, SC, & GA (1935)]. Thomas Wynne, son of a Thomas Wynne from a Montgomeryshire family, is documented as having "gone to Virginia and had issue" by the College of Arms in a pedigree of this family. [Privately held pedigree. Copy provided to writer.] Thomas was probably born in Istanbul where his father was a "Turkey merchant". He would have arrived about 1625-35. This family is the one cited in The Wynne Diaries by Anne Fremantle, although she erroneously links it to Sir John Wynn of Gwydir. We know he came but so far no record has been found to document his life or family in Virginia. Some elect to cite him as the father of John Winn (Westmoreland Co.), Richard Wynne (Middlesex Co.), or others lacking an immigrant ancestor. Sources Alexander Brown, Genesis of the United States (Russell & Russell, NYC - 1890) 2 vol. J.E. Griffith, Pedigrees of Angelsey and Caernarvonshire Families (For author - 1914). Available in many genealogical libraries. Susan M. Kingsbury, The Records of the Virginia Company of London (Gov. Printing Office, Wash. DC - 1906) 3 vols. T.J. Morgan & Pryse Morgan, Welsh Surnames (Univ of Wales Press,1985). (c) Myles Johnson Washington, DC mylesj@his.com Thanks, Roy Gwynn