Many thanks, Mary, for your very helpful info below. All this throws valuable light on early Milwaukee settlement patterns. And maybe other listers might have some added input on all this. By process of elimination, I conclude that what you're also saying below, Mary, is that, in the 1850s and 1860s at least, a large proportion of new German Catholic settlers in Milwaukee tended to gravitate to the old 8th Ward. Is this correct? The 8th Ward appears to have been detached about 1856 from the older 5th Ward to the east (Walker's Point). In 1858 at least, the 8th Ward was apparently bounded on the EAST by modern South 6th St. (formerly known as "Monroe St."-- and also "First Avenue"), on the NORTH by the Menomonee River, on the WEST by modern 35th St., and on the SOUTH by modern Lincoln Ave. In 1858, 35th St. and Lincoln Ave. seem to have demarcated, respectively, the west and south boundaries of the City of Milwaukee. I have no idea whether the present 8th Ward boundaries are similar to old 1858 8th Ward boundaries. My guess is that early immigrants from Eastern Europe also tended to settle especially in the old 8th Ward. Is this also correct? And was this Eastern European settlement primarily Polish initially? Many thanks .........John (in Chicago) ____________________________________________________________ << Subj: Re: [WiMilwau] Change in neighborhood Date: 9/30/01 8:05:24 PM Central Daylight Time From: busia@mindspring.com (Mary Popovich) Reply-to: WIMILWAU-L@rootsweb.com To: WIMILWAU-L@rootsweb.com Checking my copy of parishes from the 1865 City Directory, I would have to conclude that the North Side German population was largely Protestant. St. Joseph's was the only German Catholic parish west of the Milwaukee River, and Old St. Mary's the only German parish east of it. In the Walker's point area, there was only Holy Trinity. German Lutheran churches that would have served this area near Vliet Street included: First Evangelical (Tamarack & 5th) St. John's (Prairie & 4th) St. Paul's (5th between Prairie & Tamarack) The Evangelical parishes in this area were: Evangelical Trinity (Sherman & 6th) Zion Evangelical (Cedar & 4th). Finally, there was also: German Methodist Church (5th between Prairie & Tamarack) German Reformed (4th & Cherry) Cedar, Tamarack and Prairie are now Kilbourn, Highland and State; Sherman was a block north of Walnut. A total of FIVE German Protestant churches were concentrated in a SIX SQUARE BLOCK area of the old Second Ward! Two more churches were in the 6th Ward. It also would appear that some of these churches moved west and north along with the population. My 1910 City Directory has: St. John's at 8th & Vliet St. Paul's at 7th & Galena Zion Evangelical at 11th & Harmon First German M.E. at Prairie & 21st Incidentally, by 1910 there were 5 German M.E. churches, 2 German Baptist churches and 1 German Presbyterian church in Milwaukee. There was also a group of German 7th Day Adventists and a German Spiritualist Church. Mary Popovich Busia's Roots, Genealogy >> ____________________________________________________________ << Subj: Change in neighborhood Date: 9/30/01 4:10:42 AM Central Daylight Time From: JQMagie To: For some time, I've wondered why the adjoining east-west streets of VLIET plus (just to the north) Cherry, Galena, and Walnut-- where all four intersect with 12th Street-- marked what looks to me to be the most densely populated section of Milwaukee in 1858, as suggested by my copies of sections of Henry F. Walling's detailed 1858 map of Milwaukee. This seems to be so, even though this area was over a mile NW of Milwaukee's downtown center (then and now): at about Water St. and Wisconsin Ave. The SE corner of Ward 9 in 1858 was the intersection of Vliet and 7th streets-- so that most of this densely populated area was within Ward 9-- and to a much lesser extent within older Ward 2 to the south...... I've just confirmed my impression above by checking some US Census population summaries that I forgot I had. While Ward 9 was apparently not created until about 1856, by 1860 it had already become Milwaukee's most populous ward-- with 6594 residents. And by 1870 Ward 9 had become Milwaukee's largest ward by far, with 11537 residents)-- followed by Ward 5 (Walker's Point on Milwaukee's south side), with 8725 people. Can anyone throw any light on why the SE section of Ward 9 became so densely populated in the 1850s and 1860s? And was this primarily a German Catholic and/or German Protestant area? Most of Milwaukee's old breweries appear to have been in this general area-- and maybe these provided ample employment to new settlers. Another explanation might stem from the fact that Vliet Street was an eastern extension of the old Watertown Plank Road, originally (1849?) a toll road, which seems to have been Milwaukee's main early link to Watertown, Madison, and points west...... The Walling map also clearly shows (to the south) the big house that my g-g-grandfather Elisha Eldred was building in 1858-59 on a large piece of land on the north side of modern Wisconsin Ave., between 14th and 15th St. (land that is now part of the Marquette University campus). This Ward 2 area was much closer to downtown Milwaukee than all of Ward 9-- and yet what is striking to me is this area was almost totally undeveloped in 1858. Perhaps this was due to the formerly rugged terrain of Wisconsin Ave. between about 5th and 20th streets. Maybe this area needed a lot of grading before it could be accommodate much housing. Does anyone know something about all this? ........John (in Chicago) >> ____________________________________________________________

The old 8th Ward did have a good sized German population. Holy Trinity Catholic Parish in that ward goes back to 1850, from the same period as Old St. Mary's Catholic parish in the old 7th Ward (east of Milwaukee River, between Wisconsin & Division [Juneau]). I've done a little bit of research in Old St. Mary's and it appeared that some of the EARLIEST families of that parish were from Bavaria or other parts of southern Germany, as well as some Swiss. Note that this is ANECDOTAL rather than hard data, and refers to Catholics only. I have not done any research in Grace Lutheran, which was just a couple blocks from Old St. Mary's. As the population increased, the German population pushed north from the 7th Ward into the 1st Ward, which lay north of Division. The family that I was following changed membership from Old St. Mary's to Holy Rosary. The earliest Polish parishes were St. Stanislaus on Mitchell Street, which dates from the 1860s, and St. Hedwig's on Brady Street. These were two separate Polish communities with very little if any contact with one another, presumably because of travel distance. Polish Catholics attended Holy Trinity until St. Stan's was founded. I did not notice any Polish names in Old St. Mary's records. As the Polish population grew north from St. Hedwig's, they founded St. Casimir, and later Czestochowa parishes. St. Stanislaus gave birth to St. Hyacinth, then St. Josaphat, and then rapid expansion west of those parishes to St. Vincent, Ss. Cyril & Methodius and St. Adalbert. Holy Trinity's first daughter parish was St. Anthony on Mitchell Street. Although largely German, there were also Poles in this parish. Early Irish families seem to have belonged to the Cathedral parish and to St. Gall's, which was originally right downtown. The St. Gall's families pushed west to around Marquette University's current campus and Gesu parish (Spencer Tracy's home parish). The original Catholic Cathedral parish was St. Peter's, which my 1865 directory notes as Bohemian. However, based on a cursory look at the St. John's Cathedral records, it appears to have had a large Irish population. Scandinavians seem to have congregated on the near South Side between what's now National Avenue & Greenfield. The Norwegian Lutheran Church was at Scott & Reed (I seem to recall that this church building was later taken over by a German parish), and the Scandinavian Lutheran Church was at 2nd Avenue & Lapham. The Dutch Reformed Church was at 10th Street & Cherry, and the Holland Presbyterian Church was at 18th & Walnut. The Walnut Street Presbyterian Church at 13th Street was also Dutch. Tabernacle Congregational Church on Jefferson between Michigan & Huron, was Welsh. Only one synagogue is listed during the early period - Bene Jeshurum - on 5th Street between Wells & Cedar. That pretty much sums up the ethnic churches through the 1860s. Mary Popovich Busia's Roots, Genealogy