Mary, A most interesting story. I wonder if one could make friends with one of the clerks in the office where the adoption records are...and over time, sigh a lot over the questions still in the mind of the last surviving child of your great-grandmother. And so on. Good grief, do you mean we on the list have to wait till 2015 as well as you to know what happened?! I do hope she and you and all of us can hang in there till then. My (newly discovered) great uncle will be 94 next week, and is doing well. Best wishes, Ashley Mary Popovich wrote: > Guardianship and adoption are two different issues. The usual case of > guardianship occurs when a parent dies and a guardian is appointed by the > parent's will (or by the court if the person died intestate), it's part of > the probate record, and these are not private records. In these cases, the > child generally remains in the same family, with guardianship passing to the > other parent or to an aunt or uncle. For instance, I have a guardianship > order from a Florida probate file that appointed a woman's HUSBAND as her > guardian. The woman was still a minor and her mother's will governed. Note: > This occurred in 1889! > > (Until the 20th century, many states did not even allow women to be > appointed guardians of their own children, since women had no legal rights > to govern their own lives, much less the lives of their children. A male - > sometimes non-member of the family - would be appointed guardian. He would > make decisions regarding their discipline, education, marriage, etc.) > > Adoption records in Wisconsin - as in most states - are governed by > different laws. Wisconsin places a 99-year "seal" on adoption records. After > the 99 years - and presumably when everyone involved in the adoption is > deceased - the records may be unsealed. The laws were designed to protect > against custodial interference in cases where children were forcibly taken > from an "unfit" parent, and to protect the child against stigma in cases of > illegitimacy. Actually, even in cases where a child was legitimate, there > was a stigma attached to adoption, especially if the child came from a lower > social class than the adopting family. There was a feeling that "Blood will > tell." > > I was told by a clerk in Marinette County that in 2015 I could find out what > exactly happened when 8 of my g-grandmother's 9 children (the youngest was > still nursing) were taken from her by the State of Wisconsin in 1916 after > her husband abandoned the family. Presumably she was judged "unfit" because > she didn't have financial resources and didn't even speak English yet. > Unfortunately, my search was at the request of the youngest child, born in > 1915, who will probably be dead by then. She would like to know what went on > in court, since there was no interpreter provided for my g-grandmother. > > Note that any person who signs a legal document has the right to a copy of > that document. So, the parties who relinquished custody and who accepted > custody would have had copies of the adoption papers. How long they kept > their copies is a genealogical problem. . . . > > Mary Popovich > > ============================== > Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp > Search over 2500 databases with one easy query!

Is there a map anywhere that would list the enumeration districts and wards for Milwaukee addresses for the 1880 census. I am looking for a place to start looking for: 611 3rd 982 Booth 1004 Hadley 1071 6th I was able to locate these in the 1900 census but don't know where to start without wading through all of the records. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jane Richards Barker

I just got my newsletter from the Wisconsin Historical Society, and learned that they are posting on their internet site 41,000 local history stories from between 1870 (or 1860 according to the website) and 1940. To reach this visit: http://www.shsw.wisc.edu/wlhba/index.asp They also offer the chance to order _on-line_ copies of birth, marriage and death certificates. To reach this visit: http://www.shsw.wisc.edu/genealogy/ogrs/index.html This website already offers the rosters of Wisconsin vets of the Civil War (War of the Rebellion) on-line. Sincerely, Catherine Rose Schmid Milwaukee, Wisconsin Researching Wasielewski/Wasilewski, Freitag, Turzynski/Turzinski, Czarkowski

Maybe this was an area where unbaptized and other 'questionable' persons were buried, i.e. persons who committed suicide. I'm not sure, though. If you call the Archdiocese of Milwaukee Archives, they may know. Hope this helps in some way... Catherine Rose Schmid Milwaukee, Wisconsin Researching Wasielewski/Wasilewski, Freitag, Turzynski/Turzinski, Czarkowski -----Original Message----- From: Cheryl Barnett [mailto:clbarnett_99@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 5:26 PM To: WIMILWAU-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [WiMilwau] Polish Union - unblessed section I stopped by St. Adelbert's cemetery on my way home from work tonight to ask about my great-great-grandfather's grave. The lady who helped me showed me his index card- it contains no location other than 'unblessed section'. She had no idea what that meant. Has anyone else run across this? Cheryl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB

I stopped by St. Adelbert's cemetery on my way home from work tonight to ask about my great-great-grandfather's grave. The lady who helped me showed me his index card- it contains no location other than 'unblessed section'. She had no idea what that meant. Has anyone else run across this? Cheryl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Does anyone have information on this family: Conrade Mayer b. December 19, 1810, Germany; d. October 18, 1892, Milwaukee, Wisconsin; m. Johanna I believe he was a grocer. Children: 1. Daniel Thomas Mayer b. November 24, 1844, New York City, NY; d. January 28, 1928, Milwaukee; m. Louise Schlafer October 14, 1880 2. Dr. John Mayer b. abt. 1847, New York; d. ?; m. Isabel Ivester 3. Conrade Mayer b. abt. 1849, Wisconsin d. ? Died at a young age Children of Daniel and Louise are: 1. Warren George Mayer b. July 22, 1881, Milwaukee; d. May 30, 1951, Milwaukee; m. Mary Grace "Mayme" Cummisford September 12, 1912 2. Erva Mayer b. March 20, 1883; d. 1944 3. Perry Mayer b. March 2, 1886; d. 1954; m. Margaret Ryan; I believe he was a drugest. 4. Edna Mayer b. October 13, 1889; d. 1966; m. Allen Martell Children of Dr. John Mayer and Isabell Ivester are: 1. Everett Mayer 2. William Mayer 3. Wallace Mayer Can anyone help me with information about this family? Other surnames of interest to me are: DAVEY, SCHNEIDER, CUMMISFORD, SCHLAFER, ALDENDERFER, VOCHT, KEALEY, HOCHWEBER, BERRYMAN, METHERELL Thank you for any help you can give me. Barbara in North Carolina

Guardianship and adoption are two different issues. The usual case of guardianship occurs when a parent dies and a guardian is appointed by the parent's will (or by the court if the person died intestate), it's part of the probate record, and these are not private records. In these cases, the child generally remains in the same family, with guardianship passing to the other parent or to an aunt or uncle. For instance, I have a guardianship order from a Florida probate file that appointed a woman's HUSBAND as her guardian. The woman was still a minor and her mother's will governed. Note: This occurred in 1889! (Until the 20th century, many states did not even allow women to be appointed guardians of their own children, since women had no legal rights to govern their own lives, much less the lives of their children. A male - sometimes non-member of the family - would be appointed guardian. He would make decisions regarding their discipline, education, marriage, etc.) Adoption records in Wisconsin - as in most states - are governed by different laws. Wisconsin places a 99-year "seal" on adoption records. After the 99 years - and presumably when everyone involved in the adoption is deceased - the records may be unsealed. The laws were designed to protect against custodial interference in cases where children were forcibly taken from an "unfit" parent, and to protect the child against stigma in cases of illegitimacy. Actually, even in cases where a child was legitimate, there was a stigma attached to adoption, especially if the child came from a lower social class than the adopting family. There was a feeling that "Blood will tell." I was told by a clerk in Marinette County that in 2015 I could find out what exactly happened when 8 of my g-grandmother's 9 children (the youngest was still nursing) were taken from her by the State of Wisconsin in 1916 after her husband abandoned the family. Presumably she was judged "unfit" because she didn't have financial resources and didn't even speak English yet. Unfortunately, my search was at the request of the youngest child, born in 1915, who will probably be dead by then. She would like to know what went on in court, since there was no interpreter provided for my g-grandmother. Note that any person who signs a legal document has the right to a copy of that document. So, the parties who relinquished custody and who accepted custody would have had copies of the adoption papers. How long they kept their copies is a genealogical problem. . . . Mary Popovich

Does anyone know if there is a place to get information about adoptions or guardianship?? I've called 3 different offices at the county Vital records and nobody seems to be able to help me with information or phone numbers. . .the probate court suggested that that information is private and not allowed out. . .does anyone know how else to find out what happened to my grandmother or do I just go by what's on the birth certificate?? Thanks for any help!! Pam ______________________________________________________ "Changing the World, One Book at a Time. . . . Invest in Our World's Future with FUN books for all ages. . . .. Check out www.UBAH.com/R0094, or www.makereadingfun.com, or www.usborne.com/quicklinks

Just wanted to give an extra special thank you to Linda and Mary and Bob for your WONDERFUL help!! I am just amazed at the progress I am making in tracking down my mysterious relatives, thanks to all, Pam ______________________________________________________ "Changing the World, One Book at a Time. . . . Invest in Our World's Future with FUN books for all ages. . . .. Check out www.UBAH.com/R0094, or www.makereadingfun.com, or www.usborne.com/quicklinks

I recieved this from another list and thought it would be of interest. Ashley forwarded message: > I got this from another list and thought it might prove interesting and > possibly helpful to some of you out there. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Subject: Ancestry's 1920 Census > > Last evening I subscribed to the 1920 census on Ancestry.com. After access > to the census I discovered that there is no index of individuals. When I > called Ancestry this morning to request a refund I was informed that there > is > no refunds for their online services. So it is another case of buyer > beware. > I was shocked to find that Ancestry had such a policy. Every other > genealogical company that I have dealt with has a return policy and is more > than happy to issue a refund. > > I will never deal with Ancestry again. Once burned, well you know the > rest. > > Best Regards, > S S -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Ancestry's 1920 Census Thanks for the warning Sandy. Genealogy.com has the complete 1900 census online, and it is indexed by head of household. It is a subscriber database, and I believe that it is cheaper than Ancestry's census subscription. I have yet to have any problems with genealogy.com. Warm Regards, S D

Yes, Polish Union Cemetery is now part of Holy-Trinity/St. Adalbert's. Mary Popovich

On my great-great-grandfather's death certificate it states he is buried at 'Polish Union' cemetery. This would be in 1908. I called Union cemetery and the lady said that he is not buried there, Polish Union cemetery is different than Union cemetery, and she had no idea where Polish Union cemetery would have been. Does anyone know where Polish Union cemetery was in 1908 and what it's called today? Is it a part of St. Adelbert's now? Cheryl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

I forgot to add-the research is free! Catherine

Hi Cheryl! The process has been to call 414.278.4003 and to ask for an appointment to do genealogical research. They have 2 times available for research-8am-12, and 12-4pm. (Verify this to be sure. It's been a while since I did this.) They'll check availability and let you know when the next opening is. You are allowed one appointment per month. You must present a valid ID when you arrive. They request you use pencils to make notes on the paper you bring. You can view the all the indexes there, and all the original records from before 1931. (This is so neat!) Anything after 1931 must be requested with what they call 'pulls'. You are allowed 9 'pulls' per visit. They are divided into births, deaths, and marriages. If they don't give you one automatically, ask for the 'pull' form. You must be careful when filling out the form. There are 3 columns (births, marriages, deaths). You can do all of one or any mixture, but be sure to identify what you want CLEARLY. When you've found what you want in the index, you write down the name, year, certificate #, etc, that you found in the index. They like it when the requests are arranged chronologically. You also don't get any second chances. If you put a marriage in the death column and get the wrong certificate, you must wait until your next visit to re-request the info. The people there can be very nice and very helpful; tell them you are new at this and ask for their guidelines. However, if you don't follow them, you're pretty much out of luck. Again, please verify this when you call or go down there. It's really exciting and fun! Good luck! Catherine Rose Schmid Milwaukee, Wisconsin Researching Wasielewski/Wasilewski, Freitag, Turzynski/Turzinski, Czarkowski -----Original Message----- From: Cheryl Barnett [mailto:clbarnett_99@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 1:29 PM To: WIMILWAU-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WiMilwau] Marriage lookups --- Jim and Tricia Thompson <jlthompson@mcn.net> wrote: > Hi Listers, > > If anyone goes to the Milwaukee County Courthouse, > I'd sure appreciate > three marriage lookups. I have the index > information already: <snip> I hope this isn't a dumb question, but I'm relatively new at this and have to learn somewhere. HOW do you do a lookup at the County Courthouse? I know how to go to the vital statistics room and request a birth/marriage/death certificate, but that costs the same as mailing in for it, so it's not worth my time to research that way. I guess I have four specific questions: 1. Tricia already had the index information on her marriage requests (Volume and page number). How do I get that information? 2. Where in the Milwaukee County Courthouse do I go with the index information? 3. Do I need an appointment? 4. How much does it cost? I hope someone can help me out, because I work just a mile from the courthouse and I don't mind doing occasional lookups. Anyone out there on the list interested in showing me the ropes? Cheryl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB

I am interested in this information on lookups as well. > I hope this isn't a dumb question, but I'm relatively > new at this and have to learn somewhere. HOW do you do > a lookup at the County Courthouse? I know how to go > to the vital statistics room and request a > birth/marriage/death certificate, but that costs the > same as mailing in for it, so it's not worth my time > to research that way. > > I guess I have four specific questions: > 1. Tricia already had the index information on her > marriage requests (Volume and page number). How do I > get that information? > 2. Where in the Milwaukee County Courthouse do I go > with the index information? > 3. Do I need an appointment? > 4. How much does it cost? > > I hope someone can help me out, because I work just a > mile from the courthouse and I don't mind doing > occasional lookups. Anyone out there on the list > interested in showing me the ropes? > Cheryl > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB

The indexes to the Milwaukee vital records are available on microfilm at various locations. The Salt Lake library has them and can send them to any FHC anywhere in the country. I believe they're also available at one or more of the following local Milwaukee locations: public library (downtown), Historical Society, UW-M. Once you've got your index information, you can go to the Register of Deeds Office at the Courthouse and do the actual lookup. However, you do need to make an appointment. You may handwrite all the notes you want while you're there, but I don't think they allow photocopying. The only charge is if you want them to give you a copy of the record, and then you pay the regular fee. I would suggest that you do as much of your index work before you go to the courthouse, because you're limited as to a half-day per appointment, and I think they also limit people to one appointment per month. (Of course, you almost certainly will find something interesting on one of the actual certificates that will send you back to the index again!) Mary Popovich

--- Jim and Tricia Thompson <jlthompson@mcn.net> wrote: > Hi Listers, > > If anyone goes to the Milwaukee County Courthouse, > I'd sure appreciate > three marriage lookups. I have the index > information already: <snip> I hope this isn't a dumb question, but I'm relatively new at this and have to learn somewhere. HOW do you do a lookup at the County Courthouse? I know how to go to the vital statistics room and request a birth/marriage/death certificate, but that costs the same as mailing in for it, so it's not worth my time to research that way. I guess I have four specific questions: 1. Tricia already had the index information on her marriage requests (Volume and page number). How do I get that information? 2. Where in the Milwaukee County Courthouse do I go with the index information? 3. Do I need an appointment? 4. How much does it cost? I hope someone can help me out, because I work just a mile from the courthouse and I don't mind doing occasional lookups. Anyone out there on the list interested in showing me the ropes? Cheryl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Hi Listers, If anyone goes to the Milwaukee County Courthouse, I'd sure appreciate three marriage lookups. I have the index information already: 1. Edward L. Hanley 29 June 1915 Vol. 254, p. 256. 2. Edward L. Hanley 17 March 1916 Vol. 259, p. 491. 3. James Hanley 30 Sept. 1916 Vol. 265, p. 500. I sincerely thank you for your time on my behalf. Tricia Montana

Just for everyone's information, I have already been in contact with Robert Gartz at Forest Home Cemetery to do lookups for me re my Lieber family. He has been an 'absolute dream' helping me with my research and I would like to make his life as easy as possible! <smile> Please do not forward my posting to Bob. My apologies to the list and Mr. Gartz. Cristy in Washington State On Sun, 8 Jul 2001 22:12:16 -0700 Robert W Cole <cculp2@juno.com> writes: > Hello List: > > I am new to the list and researching the following Lieber family > from > Greenfield, Hales Corner and Franklin in Milwaukee County. > > Elizabeth Lieber, born 1777(unknown where, possibly in Germany), > died > 1864 and Anton Lieber, unknown place of birth and death. Elizabeth > is > buried in Forest Home Cemetery in Milwaukee. > > Henry Lieber SR, born Hannover, Germany, circa 1814/1815. Possibly > married to Louise Scherf(?) and Paulina Wilhelmina (unk. last name). > > Henry died December 27, 1890 in Greenfield and was survived by his > wife > (Wilhelmina) and nine grown children. Some of the children are: > William, > Charles, Louise, Henry JR. (b. about 1845 in Milwaukee County), > Elizabeth, Sophia and Rosaline. Henry SR, Wilhelmina, Louise, > Rosaline > and other family members are all buried in Forest Home Cemetery in > Milwaukee in the Lieber family plot. There is also a connection to > the > STROTHMANN family of the same areas in Milwaukee County. > > Any information would be helpful!!!!! > > Cristy in Washington State > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > ============================== > Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp > Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Hi Christy, Saw your post this morning. Could I ask you, in the future, to do one thing - please mention that you have been in contact with me if you mention Forest Home Cemetery. I just know that I am going to be getting about ten e-mails today telling me to check out your message, that maybe I could help you. As you know, genealogists try to be helpful so they will want me to help you by writing to me. Thanks! All it means is that I have to do a lot of deleting. It would save me and the people who remind to look at your post some time. Bob