The following new message has been added to the Williams Genealogy Forums, on the Williams DNA Project board under the existing topic of Re: Welsh naming practices... -------------------------------- Excellent stuff, Hughes!  I love how language history can also help us to figure out ancient human migrations.  I was surprised by your comment that R1b1 would not be considered Angles/Saxons.  If that is a knowledgable generalization (my assumption), can you please comment on just how general it is?  Isn't it risky to more-or-less equate very ancient migrations (Haplotypes) to relatively recent migrations (the use of the terms Angles/Saxons)? >From National Geographic's Genographic Project website: [url=http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html]www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html[/url], the "atlas" shows that Haplotype R1b1 migrated from Asia west across Prussia and Germany, all the way to Spain, beginning about 30,000 years ago.  Of course, there were branches and stops all along the route.  Haplotype I1a migrated to western Europe about 15,000 years ago from Norway/Sweden.  I assume that this atlas is very general in its attempt to clarify the extreme complexity that must be involved in tracing human migrations over such huge geography and long periods.  But wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that some of the Angles and Saxons (or other groups migrating from Continental Europe to Wales over the eons) were R1b1?  Also, do you mean to say that most Welsh (at least the R1b1) migrated to Wales from the Spanish peninsula? And are you assuming that the Angles and Saxons were mainly I1a? Please forgive my general use of current Nation names - it just reflects my limited cognitive map! Thanks