The term "Black Dutch" has come to be associated with Melungeons, but it originally refered to a swarthy ethnic group from the Netherlands who had no connection with them. Holland was a Hapsburg possesion for a couple of hundred years during which time, Spanish soldiers and sailors were stationed there and there was much commerce between the two countries. Naturally there was intermarriage between the native Germanic peoples and the Spanish which eventually produced a swarthy ethnic strain in the Netherlands. When they migrated to America, they were called "Black Dutch". Edwin L. "Boe" Williams ----- Original Message ----- From: "paul williams" <bossman9@gmail.com> To: "Joyce Leo" <joyceleo@wildblue.net>; <williams-dna@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [WILLIAMS-DNA] Family Tree DNA - we do genetic testsforyourgenealogy questions! > I remember my father and grandfather talking about there being "black Dutch" > in our ancestry. I think this was more to do with the Click family (G-GF > Williams married a Click - an Americanization of the German Gluck) than the > Williams. I don't think black Dutch is necessarily the same thing as > Melungeon (more like German gypsies), but both have come to be sort of > umbrella terms for folks up in the hills who may have someone in their > bloodline who was less than lily-white. I've read that there were both negro > and Turkish slaves who escaped and hid as far up in the hills as they could > get and married into Indian tribes. Once they began to breed with whites, > the tendency was to try and marry whiter and whiter to obscure the > non-European ancestry, partially out of fear that their land would be taken > away if they were designated as mulatto. Columbus not only employed Turkish > and Moorish sailors, he wrote on his fourth voyage of seeing a strange > people on a ship that reminded him of the Moorish galleys he'd seen in the > Mediterranean. The women were wearing veils. It's not outside of the realm > of possibility that Muslims were here before he was. I thought this article > was interesting: > http://geocities.com/Paris/5121/melungeon.htm > I do have the "Melungeon bump" on the back of my head... > > > On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Joyce Leo <joyceleo@wildblue.net> wrote: > > > The Cherokee intermarried all the time, and from an early time in > > the history of the meetings of Cherokee maidens and white men who > > came into their territory. Even Nancy Ward, the great and last > > "Beloved Woman" of the Cherokee married a white man, and she was > > no traitor to her people or their "constitution", which by the > > way I don't think they had. Sequoyah introduced the Cherokee > > alphabet to the entire Cherokee tribe in the 1820's and they had > > their first printing press and publications in the late 1820's > > and early 1830's, just as Andrew Jackson was drawing up expulsion > > papers to rid the entire area of all the Indians. The > > intermarriages took place in the 1600's, 1700's, 1800's and still > > are taking place. The descendants of these intermarriages are > > very plentiful today all over the country, "constitution" or no > > constitution. I have plenty of Cherokee blood running in my > > Williams line. > > > > Joyce Williams Leo > > > -- > "All the world's a stooge" > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WILLIAMS-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 12:00 AM > >

Interest dialog concerning the Black Dutch. I had not heard of them until about four years ago when a neighbor told me of his Indian blood lines. He told me his Grandmothers were census listed as Black Dutch because they lived in Mississippi where they could not legally live as Indians. I just comfirmed with him the story. One of his grandmothers is 1/4 Cherokee and 1/4 Blackfoot, the other is 1/2 Cherokee, that is his full blooded Cherokee great grandmother is the daughter of a full blooded Cherokee Chief. Both of his grandmothers were listed as Black Dutch so they would not be arrested and shipped elsewhere. Woodrow "Woody" A. Williams Quoting Boe Williams <ccshoes@bellsouth.net>: > The term "Black Dutch" has come to be associated with Melungeons, but > it > originally refered to a swarthy ethnic group from the Netherlands who > had no > connection with them. > > Holland was a Hapsburg possesion for a couple of hundred years during > which > time, Spanish soldiers and sailors were stationed there and there was > much > commerce between the two countries. Naturally there was intermarriage > between the native Germanic peoples and the Spanish which eventually > produced a swarthy ethnic strain in the Netherlands. When they migrated > to > America, they were called "Black Dutch". > > Edwin L. "Boe" Williams > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "paul williams" <bossman9@gmail.com> > To: "Joyce Leo" <joyceleo@wildblue.net>; <williams-dna@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 1:25 PM > Subject: Re: [WILLIAMS-DNA] Family Tree DNA - we do genetic > testsforyourgenealogy questions! > > > > I remember my father and grandfather talking about there being "black > Dutch" > > in our ancestry. I think this was more to do with the Click family > (G-GF > > Williams married a Click - an Americanization of the German Gluck) > than > the > > Williams. I don't think black Dutch is necessarily the same thing as > > Melungeon (more like German gypsies), but both have come to be sort > of > > umbrella terms for folks up in the hills who may have someone in > their > > bloodline who was less than lily-white. I've read that there were > both > negro > > and Turkish slaves who escaped and hid as far up in the hills as they > could > > get and married into Indian tribes. Once they began to breed with > whites, > > the tendency was to try and marry whiter and whiter to obscure the > > non-European ancestry, partially out of fear that their land would be > taken > > away if they were designated as mulatto. Columbus not only employed > Turkish > > and Moorish sailors, he wrote on his fourth voyage of seeing a > strange > > people on a ship that reminded him of the Moorish galleys he'd seen in > the > > Mediterranean. The women were wearing veils. It's not outside of the > realm > > of possibility that Muslims were here before he was. I thought this > article > > was interesting: > > http://geocities.com/Paris/5121/melungeon.htm > > I do have the "Melungeon bump" on the back of my head... > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Joyce Leo <joyceleo@wildblue.net> > wrote: > > > > > The Cherokee intermarried all the time, and from an early time in > > > the history of the meetings of Cherokee maidens and white men who > > > came into their territory. Even Nancy Ward, the great and last > > > "Beloved Woman" of the Cherokee married a white man, and she was > > > no traitor to her people or their "constitution", which by the > > > way I don't think they had. Sequoyah introduced the Cherokee > > > alphabet to the entire Cherokee tribe in the 1820's and they had > > > their first printing press and publications in the late 1820's > > > and early 1830's, just as Andrew Jackson was drawing up expulsion > > > papers to rid the entire area of all the Indians. The > > > intermarriages took place in the 1600's, 1700's, 1800's and still > > > are taking place. The descendants of these intermarriages are > > > very plentiful today all over the country, "constitution" or no > > > constitution. I have plenty of Cherokee blood running in my > > > Williams line. > > > > > > Joyce Williams Leo > > > > > > -- > > "All the world's a stooge" > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WILLIAMS-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 > 12:00 > AM > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WILLIAMS-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Boe, any idea when the Germans were in Holland and the Spanish soldier joined them. Creating a Black Dutch people, before 1640, after 1740 ??? When & where might they have gone in the American colonies? Kay C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Boe Williams To: williams-dna@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [WILLIAMS-DNA] Family Tree DNA - we do genetictestsforyourgenealogy questions! The term "Black Dutch" has come to be associated with Melungeons, but it originally refered to a swarthy ethnic group from the Netherlands who had no connection with them. Holland was a Hapsburg possesion for a couple of hundred years during which time, Spanish soldiers and sailors were stationed there and there was much commerce between the two countries. Naturally there was intermarriage between the native Germanic peoples and the Spanish which eventually produced a swarthy ethnic strain in the Netherlands. When they migrated to America, they were called "Black Dutch". Edwin L. "Boe" Williams ----- Original Message ----- From: "paul williams" <bossman9@gmail.com> To: "Joyce Leo" <joyceleo@wildblue.net>; <williams-dna@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [WILLIAMS-DNA] Family Tree DNA - we do genetic testsforyourgenealogy questions! > I remember my father and grandfather talking about there being "black Dutch" > in our ancestry. I think this was more to do with the Click family (G-GF > Williams married a Click - an Americanization of the German Gluck) than the > Williams. I don't think black Dutch is necessarily the same thing as > Melungeon (more like German gypsies), but both have come to be sort of > umbrella terms for folks up in the hills who may have someone in their > bloodline who was less than lily-white. I've read that there were both negro > and Turkish slaves who escaped and hid as far up in the hills as they could > get and married into Indian tribes. Once they began to breed with whites, > the tendency was to try and marry whiter and whiter to obscure the > non-European ancestry, partially out of fear that their land would be taken > away if they were designated as mulatto. Columbus not only employed Turkish > and Moorish sailors, he wrote on his fourth voyage of seeing a strange > people on a ship that reminded him of the Moorish galleys he'd seen in the > Mediterranean. The women were wearing veils. It's not outside of the realm > of possibility that Muslims were here before he was. I thought this article > was interesting: > http://geocities.com/Paris/5121/melungeon.htm > I do have the "Melungeon bump" on the back of my head... > > > On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Joyce Leo <joyceleo@wildblue.net> wrote: > > > The Cherokee intermarried all the time, and from an early time in > > the history of the meetings of Cherokee maidens and white men who > > came into their territory. Even Nancy Ward, the great and last > > "Beloved Woman" of the Cherokee married a white man, and she was > > no traitor to her people or their "constitution", which by the > > way I don't think they had. Sequoyah introduced the Cherokee > > alphabet to the entire Cherokee tribe in the 1820's and they had > > their first printing press and publications in the late 1820's > > and early 1830's, just as Andrew Jackson was drawing up expulsion > > papers to rid the entire area of all the Indians. The > > intermarriages took place in the 1600's, 1700's, 1800's and still > > are taking place. The descendants of these intermarriages are > > very plentiful today all over the country, "constitution" or no > > constitution. I have plenty of Cherokee blood running in my > > Williams line. > > > > Joyce Williams Leo > > > -- > "All the world's a stooge" > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WILLIAMS-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7 - Release Date: 3/8/2008 12:00 AM > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WILLIAMS-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message