I guess many people also point their fingers at me. Yes, I have a website , and yes i research my materials myself. BUT !!!! When you post your information on the Internet it is in public view.Automatically downloaded into your system without your knowledge. This is where i spend hours every night going through my cache of information looking over the clues. I take your email's to this very list and attach them to a named entry in my database hoping that one day i will dig up a document to support your internet writings.You posted the information in a public forum on a public mailing list. Get real, Thats kinda stupid to post it on the internet then run around complaining because it shows up in someone elses work. This is the grey area. You said it on the internet and i located a document for it. Does this make me wrong ? Does this mean i stole your work ? Or does this mean i took the ball where you were fumbling because my research also included similar named persons with similar dates and you pop a name that fits my research and i continue to work your lead. Grey Area. I am getting hammered daily because i have so much information on my website and I claim very little except for the documents i place against the names and the complete collection of collections. I do correct errors when people are nice to me and offer the corrections. This is when some people send you the corrections in the form of a garbage file that corrupts and ruins your work and my work together. To me that is illegal on your part to be so jealous that i have more on your family than you, but then again i spend thousands of hours also researching the same families for different reasons. More importantly to me is this. I am working a large circle of families to find a single person. I know about everyone of these families more than you do and i only need your data to put it all together. You posted it, you quoted the references and all i need now is the exact same document to prove my part of the research where all the families come together. Where you may be working a straight narrow, I am working a large circle around you researching families that you do not care to have in your research. The only way to prove my family is to work your family to locate the clues. The whole genealogy community has given me a rude, raw, nasty taste in my mouth. I am ready to take my clues to my grave. That is way to selfish and I have to much time invested to just give up because your clue is copyrighted. Screw the copyright, document it, and get the document yourself, WHO cares WHO found it first ??? Are you that self centered that it makes that big a deal to you that you found you dead ancestors birthdate and you are so stupid to think that no one will ever find it too ? I find that these people want to profit from their research and this is where i draw my line in the sand. I spend thousands of dollars also, i research the clues that you toss out, I prove those first to get them out of the way. I take pride in the fact i am working my family, I take pride in the fact that i share my research for free, But i do not trust any other researchers and i only believe it when i have a document in MY hand. Then i have the proof that i need.. The difference is that i give my documents away for free and you moan and complain that someone is working your family and not giving you credit for your research. Again, WHO CARES ? If its that important to you to be so secretive, then unsubscribe from the lists, never tell anyone, never publish it in a book , never upload it to any website and eventually WHO CARES. I know that my work is a collection of mistakes, mistakes that are keeping the whole big picture from coming together. To me when i post it on MY PERSONAL WEBSITE, then it is private to me. I do not invite you to come look over my free documents that i spent my thousands of hours locating and then i post them on my site in plain view for free.. I want these documents out in the open so that eventually someone will also help locate a missing relative of mine. What the internet has done is ruin the credability of genealogy. It has ruined the profitability of genealogy. And the profiteers are those that scream the loudest and also threaten to SUE other family members for chasing a clue on the same grandfather. What a family system of sharing and working together for a common goal.. Also. Do not email a mailing list and ask a few questions hoping someone will give you that big break so that you can run and copyright it and then start sueing everyone because you are also calling this your research. You would not get that clue without one of us replying to your email. Guess this is why i am quiet on the list, i scavage the information i want, post it into a larger database full of more information that you have in yours and then i work the magic of trying to connect them all together. If they connect correctly then they must fit. You will never hear of me sueing someone because they used my information to crack a big old nasty genealogy nightmare. I encourage it and i also encourage others to post freely. Just remember if you post something, its public knowledge forever. There are websites that record your information many years down the line just because you put it on the internet.

This is all good and well, but the information I found posted was NOT previously on the Internet, nor was it my intention that it be posted since it was a working copy and not verified. Now, the information is posted in such a way as to look like fact. Since it was posted, I have made corrections and found reliable sources. The corrections have been placed on the Internet, but after reading your letter I may remove it. Many of us started our genealogy pre-internet. What this means to many is thousands of dollars spent on snail-mail, certificates, private researchers, travel etc... Should you or anyone else have a right to take for free what we have paid for? NO! And, it is people like you that are causing many of us NOT to publish on the Internet. You think because it is on the net it belongs to you? Guess what, copyright laws DO apply and you cannot legally take the information without asking the author first. I have NEVER turned down anyone who asked, even providing additional information that is not on the internet. Even if it were not against the law to take and publish others hard work, what about the moral issues? Perhaps you can sleep well at night knowing you stole something that did not belong to you, but I sure couldn't. While I agree that the information found in major sites, like Ancestry, LDS Etc... should be able to be freely used, since the author already gave it away, information from personal websites should NOT be used without the authors permission. Just my humble opinion. Robin At 07:54 PM 10/28/02 -0500, James Shivers wrote: >I guess many people also point their fingers at me. Yes, I have a website , >and yes i research my materials myself. BUT !!!! When you post your >information on the Internet it is in public view.Automatically downloaded >into your system without your knowledge. This is where i spend hours every >night going through my cache of information looking over the clues. I take >your email's to this very list and attach them to a named entry in my >database hoping that one day i will dig up a document to support your >internet writings.You posted the information in a public forum on a public >mailing list. Get real, Thats kinda stupid to post it on the internet then >run around complaining because it shows up in someone elses work. This is >the grey area. You said it on the internet and i located a document for it. >Does this make me wrong ? Does this mean i stole your work ? Or does this >mean i took the ball where you were fumbling because my research also >included similar named persons with similar dates and you pop a name that >fits my research and i continue to work your lead. Grey Area. I am getting >hammered daily because i have so much information on my website and I claim >very little except for the documents i place against the names and the >complete collection of collections. I do correct errors when people are nice >to me and offer the corrections. This is when some people send you the >corrections in the form of a garbage file that corrupts and ruins your work >and my work together. To me that is illegal on your part to be so jealous >that i have more on your family than you, but then again i spend thousands >of hours also researching the same families for different reasons. > >More importantly to me is this. I am working a large circle of families to >find a single person. I know about everyone of these families more than you >do and i only need your data to put it all together. You posted it, you >quoted the references and all i need now is the exact same document to prove >my part of the research where all the families come together. Where you may >be working a straight narrow, I am working a large circle around you >researching families that you do not care to have in your research. The only >way to prove my family is to work your family to locate the clues. > >The whole genealogy community has given me a rude, raw, nasty taste in my >mouth. I am ready to take my clues to my grave. That is way to selfish and I >have to much time invested to just give up because your clue is copyrighted. >Screw the copyright, document it, and get the document yourself, WHO cares >WHO found it first ??? Are you that self centered that it makes that big a >deal to you that you found you dead ancestors birthdate and you are so >stupid to think that no one will ever find it too ? I find that these people >want to profit from their research and this is where i draw my line in the >sand. I spend thousands of dollars also, i research the clues that you toss >out, I prove those first to get them out of the way. > >I take pride in the fact i am working my family, I take pride in the fact >that i share my research for free, But i do not trust any other researchers >and i only believe it when i have a document in MY hand. Then i have the >proof that i need.. The difference is that i give my documents away for >free and you moan and complain that someone is working your family and not >giving you credit for your research. Again, WHO CARES ? If its that >important to you to be so secretive, then unsubscribe from the lists, never >tell anyone, never publish it in a book , never upload it to any website and >eventually WHO CARES. > >I know that my work is a collection of mistakes, mistakes that are keeping >the whole big picture from coming together. To me when i post it on MY >PERSONAL WEBSITE, then it is private to me. I do not invite you to come look >over my free documents that i spent my thousands of hours locating and then >i post them on my site in plain view for free.. I want these documents out >in the open so that eventually someone will also help locate a missing >relative of mine. > >What the internet has done is ruin the credability of genealogy. It has >ruined the profitability of genealogy. And the profiteers are those that >scream the loudest and also threaten to SUE other family members for chasing >a clue on the same grandfather. What a family system of sharing and working >together for a common goal.. > > >Also. Do not email a mailing list and ask a few questions hoping someone >will give you that big break so that you can run and copyright it and then >start sueing everyone because you are also calling this your research. You >would not get that clue without one of us replying to your email. Guess this >is why i am quiet on the list, i scavage the information i want, post it >into a larger database full of more information that you have in yours and >then i work the magic of trying to connect them all together. If they >connect correctly then they must fit. > > >You will never hear of me sueing someone because they used my information to >crack a big old nasty genealogy nightmare. I encourage it and i also >encourage others to post freely. Just remember if you post something, its >public knowledge forever. There are websites that record your information >many years down the line just because you put it on the internet. > > >==== WILLIAMS Mailing List ==== >List web page: http://www2.netdoor.com/~cch/lists/WILLIAMS.htm >Your WILLIAMS listowner - Carol C-H <cch@netdoor.com> http://www2.netdoor.com/~cch/ > > >