Ahoy, all you Williams and Harris researchers of both colonial Virginia and early North Carolina. There is some thought by other subscribers that Duke Williams and Marmaduke Williams of Caswell Co. NC (formed 1777 from Orange Co., NC) are the same persons. I beg to disagree. I hope you can hang in here to read the following. (Cut and paste it into an e-mail to yourself, print it out, and study it, and then argue back and forth on the internet--that is how we learn.) Better documentation of these persons and their dates will be appreciated by all who want to join in. I have used mainly the abstracts of Katherine Kerr Kendall, who so helpfully abstracted so many records of Caswell Co., NC. See a list of her books on <A HREF="www.familysearch.org">www.familysearch.org</A> by using the online catalog. Please send corrections to me at hdanw@aol.com DUKE WILLIAMS (b. ca. 1765-d. after 1810). As indicated in the will of his father Col. John Williams (1740-1804) of Caswell Co., Duke Williams is his son. (This will was quoted in a previous e-mail. Search the Archives.) How Duke Williams is related to Marmaduke Williams of Caswell Co., or whether he even is, is unknown. They were known to each other, as demonstrated in one of the cited documents. Certainly Marmaduke is not named in the will of [Col.] John Williams of Caswell Co., NC, as is Duke Williams. Colonel John Williams of Caswell Co. is allegedly son of of an older Nathaniel Williams (reportedly born ca 1716, probably in Henrico Co, VA - date and place of death unknown). Col John Williams is father of Duke Williams. Duke Williams was married to Ede Harris. Marmaduke Williams, on the other hand, was married to a woman named Agnes, as noted in Caswell Co. DB Q-153-4, cited below. Marmaduke married Agnes Harris nee Payne on or about 16 Oct 1798.+ She is said to be widow of Robert Harris, who appears as witness in one of the cited documents. (To further complicate family matters, Robert Harris is said to have been son of Tyree Harris [1725 VA-ca 1786 NC] of Caswell Co., whose second wife was Mary Ann Simpson, sister of Richard Simpson. Simpson is the husband of Henrietta Williams, Henrietta being daughter of Col. John Williams.) Father [Col.] John Williams's will was written 31 May 1798 and was proved in Caswell Co. court ... 1805. It names John's wife Betsy (aka Elizabeth, whose maiden name is reportedly Williamson); children Duke Williams; daughter Betsy, wife of Azariah Graves; daughter Henrietta, wife of Richard Simpson the younger. Several grandchildren are named. This is a quotation from e-mail of a contributor today to this discussion re the will of Col. John Williams:       1. Various, Website: Graves Family Organization (Electronic; ), http://www.gravesfa.org and  http://www.gravesfa.org/gen169.htm."        719. Azariah Graves, b. 29 Oct. 1768, m. Elizabeth Williams, 3 June 1790, d. 1 March 1850." (Comment 1: An Azariah Graves was later married to Penelope Simpson, Caswell Co. 16 May 1809; William Simpson, bondsman. This probably was the marriage of a younger Azariah Graves, but this not known at this point. This may have been a second marriage of Azariah Graves; Penelope is NOT, as far as known, a daughter of Richard Simpson, the elder, of Caswell Co. Comment 2: Azariah Graves, however, may be somehow related to the Williams family of Goochland Co. and of Granville Co., NC and of Southside Virginia through the marriage of Henry Graves [died, it is said, in Hanover Co.] to Mary Williams [d. in Mecklenburg Co., VA after 1765], and further, Azariah was married to the daughter of Col. John Williams of Caswell Co., NC. Relationship of the various Graves families of VA and NC is unknown to this writer.) Confusion About Identities Indication in deeds and the will of Col. John Williams is that Duke's mother was Elizabeth Williams of Caswell Co. Later it is said that Duke Williams had migrated to Tennessee (not confirmed, but see website given below.) Caswell Co. DB E-294 Edward Haggard of CC to Duke Williams, for 162 pds., 162 A on both sides Country Line Cr adj John Williams, Parker. 11 Sept 1787. Wit: Betsy Williams, John Williams. (Katherine Kerr Kendall, Caswell Co., NC Deeds, p. 103) Witnesses Betsy and John Williams probably are children of Duke Williams. However, Betsy may have been Duke Williams's sister. Duke Simpson occasionally served as witness for the deeds of others, but particularly those who were related to him, mainly through marriage to his sisters. DB F-195-6 David Burton of CC to Richard Simpson of same, for 150 pds., 300 A n fork Stoney Cr a branch of Haw R adj William Swift, formerly Tyree Harris, Richard Simpson. 27 Sept 1788. Wit: Robert Harris, DK Williams [probably Duke]. (Kendall, p. 111) Richard Simpson, the younger, was brother-in-law of Duke Williams, having married Henrietta Williams. Robert Harris is probably son of Tyree Harris, possibly by Harris's second wife, Mary Ann Simpson, but this is not proved. Ede Harris is said to have been the daughter of Tyree Harris and his second wife Mary Ann Simpson, older sister of Richard Simpson the younger. (On the other hand, Robert Harris, first husband of Agnes Payne, was son of Tyree Harris. Whether Robert's mother was Mary Ann Simpson is unknown to this writer. ) + + DB H-351-2 Cornelius Dabney of CC to Duke Williams of same, for 100 pds., 140 A on Horsley's Creek adj David Poyner. 30 Jan 1794. Wit: Samuel Williams. (Kendall, p. 151) The relationship of Samuel Williams to Duke Williams is unknown. DB H-432-3 Duke Williams of CC to John Lenox of Rockingham Co., NC, for 120 pds., 140 A on Horseley's Cr. adj David Pyner. /s/ DK Williams. 28 Apr 1795 (Kendall, p. 155) Duke in the above deed has sold the property he earlier bought from Cornelius Dabney. (The Dabney family and the Harris family were closely associated in Virginia, and some marriages between the two families occurred in Virginia and perhaps in North Carolina.) In 1799, Duke Williams was witness to a deed wherein his brother-in-law Azariah Graves was grantee. The grantor may have been the father of Duke and father-in-law of Azariah, but this cannot be determined from the abstract. DB L-139 John Williams of CC to Azariah Graves of same, for $1000 pds., 243 A on Country Line & Horsley's Creeks adj. Goodlow & Robt. Brown. 28 Feb 1799. Wit: John Yancey, Duke Williams. DB N-41-2 Duke Williams of CC to George Williamson of same, for 60 pds 27 A on Country Line Cr adj Nathan Williamson. 24 Jan 1803. Wit: Walter Fairfax, MDuke Mitchell. (Kendall, p. 240) DB O-141 Duke Williams of CC to Azariah Graves, for 50 pds., 6 A on Country Line Cr adj land Graves purchased of Nathaniel Hart. 17 Jan 1806. Wit: George Foote Junr., Francis Rice. (Kendall, p. 265) (Comment: George Foote is believed to be related to the wife of the elder Richard Simpson family of Caswell Co., originally of Fairfax Co., VA.) For information on the burial place of Duke Williams, check this website: <A HREF="www.henderson-lea.hc.k12tn.net/donahue/gm/gm2-13.htm">www.henderson-lea.hc.k12tn.net/donahue/gm/gm2-13.htm</A> To continue - to try to differentiate Duke Williams and Marmaduke Williams: Duke Williams and Marmaduke Williams Both Duke Williams and Marmaduke Williams of Caswell Co. had wives who were named Harris. In Caswell Co. Duke Williams married Edy Harris, 19 Oct, 1790, Robert Williams bondsman. Duke Williams was an associate of Tyree Harris as seen in the following deed; Edy Harris is believed to have been the daughter of Tyree Harris. Tyree's father was Robert Harris of Albemarle and Louisa Cos., VA. Harris's first wife is reportedly Elizabeth Chapman. Whether there were children by Elizabeth Chapman is unknown. This information about the marriage of Marmaduke Williams: Marmaduke's wife was Agness Harris. They were married in Caswell Co. 26 Oct 1798 (bond); Alex Murphey witness. (Reportedly, Agness Harris is a widow. See below.) Caswell Co. DB F-193-94 Cornelius Dabney of CC to Robert Harris of same, for 160 pds, 200 A on Hoster's Cr. [Horseley Cr.] 18 July 1789. Wit: Duke Williams, Tyree Harris. (Comment: Robert Harris is said to be the son of Tyree Harris, but this has not been confirmed. Cornelius Dabney may have been related to the first wife, Mary Dabney, of another brother of Tyree Harris, Christopher Harris of Albemarle Co., later of Madison Co., KY.) Another deed in Caswell Co., NC, in which both Williams men were grantors was as follows: DB Q-153-4 Duke Williams, MDuke Williams and Agness [nee Harris] his wife of CC to Alexander Walker of same, for $800, 319 A on Horsley's Cr being tract where MDuke Williams lived & part of the Shannon tract adj Thomas Poyner. 24 Dec 1809. Wit: Thomas Poyner, Larkin Baldwin, John White, Thos. Humphreys. Reference to this last conveyance is found in DB Q-220, a dispute between grantee and grantors which was settled by commissioners, 10 Apr 1810. Duke Williams, son of Col. John Williams, was associated with the Rices and also Jere Williamson and Tyree Harris, all of whom lived near Country Line Creek in Caswell Co. In Jul 1789, Duke Williams and Tyree Harris [his probable father-in-law] were witnesses to DB F-193-4, Cornelius Dabney to Robert Harris, for 160 pds., 200 A on Hoster's Creek [Horsley Cr]. (Comment: "Cornelius Dabney," a common name in the Dabney family, is a name mentioned in the will of Christopher Harris of Madison Co., KY. Christopher Harris's first wife and mother of his older children was reportedly Mary Dabney, whose father is unidentified. Harris's first children, several of Christopher's 19 children, were to be provided for as specified in Cornelius Dabney's will, so stated in Christopher Harris's will, made in Madison Co., KY.) Earlier, in Sep 1788 (DB F-195-6), "DK" Williams and Robert Harris were witnesses to a deed David Burton to Richard Simpson, land on Stoney Cr. (As indicated by the will of Duke's father, John Williams, Richard Simpson is Duke's brother-in-law, married to Henrietta Williams.) Richard Simpson is the second of that name in Caswell Co. He is the son of the elder Richard Simpson (wife Mary Kincheloe), formerly of Fairfax Co., VA. Later, DB H-351-352, Cornelius Dabney granted 140 A on Horsley's Creek adj. David Poyner to Duke Williams, 30 Jan 1794. In Apr 1795, Duke Williams sold this land: DB H-432-3 Duke Williams to John Lenox of Rockingham Co., NC for 120 pds., 140 A on Horsley's Cr. adj. David Poyner. /s/ DK Williams. Wit: Asa Thomas. In July 1795, Duke Williams was one of the commissioners to divide the land (estate) of Waddy Tate, decd to legatees, all named. (DB J-172-173). Williams continued to serve as witness to various deeds of neighbors on Country Line & Horsley's Creeks. DB H-41-42 Duke Williams of CC to George Williamson of same for 60 pds. 27 A on Country Line Cr adj Nathan Williamson. 24 Jan 1803. Wit: Walter Fairfax, MDuke Mitchell. DB N-162-164, 1804, indicates Duke Williams was a neighbor of Col David Hart, decd, whose land was being divided. Williams was selling some of his land in 1806: DB O-141 Duke Willimas of CC to Azariah Graves, for 50 pds., 6 A on Country Line adj land Graves purchased of Nathaniel Hart. 17 Jan 1806. Wit: George Foote Jun., Francis Rice. (The 1798 will of father John Williams indicates Azariah Graves, the executor, is husband of Betsy Williams Graves.) DB O-144 Duke Williams of CC to David Barker of same, for $25, 9 2/3 A between Country Line Cr and Rocky Br, 27 Jan 1806. Wit: John Barker, MDuke Mitchell. In 1811, Duke Williams was still witnessing deeds. Also DB R-115 shows he sold to Hezekiah Boswell for $1500 a negro man London, his wife Winny and children Peter and Agnes; also livestock. 7 May 1811. In 1810, Duke Williams sold a great part of his land. DB R-299 Duke Williams of CC to Azariah Graves of same, for $10,000 845 1/2 A on Horsley Cr to Hart's Rd, adj Mrs. Hart's field to Country Line Cr, Cotten Matkins. 28 Mar 1810. Wit: MDuke Mitchell, John W. Graves. DB R-370-371, 5 Nov 1816, Elizabeth Williams to daughter in law Edy Williams wife of Duke Williams loan of 2 negroes .. these to go to her children by Duke Williams ..." It is unclear whether Duke Williams was still living, although the following deed by the sheriff seems to indicate Duke MAY have been deceased. Edy may have remarried. In Jan 1817, the sheriff was selling "by court order" to Azariah Graves Sen. the undivided interest of Duke Williams to slaves [named], including some left to Elizabeth Williams, Elizabeth probably the mother of Duke and mother-in-law of Graves. (DB R-406 is a listing of the slaves and the prices paid.) Again, there was reference to this last action. DB R-406 George Williamson sheriff to Azariah Graves Sen. of CC - by court order the undivided interest of Duke Williams to negroes [15 named plus Jenny & ? left to Elizabeth Williams]. The sums paid for the individual slaves were given. 15 Jan 1817. Wit: Azariah Graves, Alex Murphey. There are no further references to Duke Williams in the abstracted deeds, which end with Book R. However, refer to biography of his wife Ede Harris. She died 1817 in Shelbyville, TN, having recently removed there from Caswell Co., according to her obituary. Duke Williams was bondsmen for several marriages which took place in Caswell Co., which will not be listed here. + AGNESS HARRIS NEE PAYNE. According to a long-ago query, 1896, in VIRGINIA MAGAZINE OF HISTORY AND BIOGRAPHY, v. 3, concerning the Williams family, Hon. Marmaduke Williams (see Wheeler's HISTORY OF NORTH CAROLINA, PART II, p. 78), "a great-grandson of the emigrant above [John Williams I and wife Mary,] married Mrs. Agnes Harris nee Payne, the widow of Robert Harris (son of Tyra Harris and Mary Ann Simpson). She was a cousin of Mrs. Dolly Payne Madison. They had, among other children, one named Madison Williams and one named Dolly Payne Williams (the writer's grandmother). Can any one give exact relationship to Mrs. Madison, names of Agnes (Payne) Williams' parents, and sources for a full account of the Payne family?" /s/ Descendant." Supposition is that this unidentified query was submitted by Thomas McAdory Owen, former archivist (deceased 1920) of Alabama State Archives, who was conducting much research of the "Hanover Co." Williams family during this time period. Rather recently some of Owen's notes on Granville Co. (but not Caswell Co.) residents have been published by Southern Historical Press. His compilation is entitled History and Genealogies of Old Granville County, North Carolina 1746-1800. Maud Carter Clement in THE HISTORY OF PITTSYLVANIA COUNTY, VIRGINIA [Lynchburg, VA: J. P. Bell, Inc., 1929) has a footnote on page 144 concerning the Payne family. Agnes Payne was one of several children of Robert Payne whose will was probated at Pittsylvania Courthouse 19 Dec 1785. His wife was Anne Burton of Goochland Co. The info does not state the date of marriage of Agnes to Marmaduke Williams, and it provides no info re Marmaduke Williams. + +Richard Simpson the elder (wife Mary Kincheloe) had many daughters, but only one son, at least only one who survived to maturity--Richard Simpson who married Henrietta Williams. Several of the daughters, with their husbands, removed to Kentucky. Richard Simpson the younger eventually moved to Madison Co., KY. Submitted by E.W.Wallace