I also ordered the TAG issue with the Whitney article, and I haven't received it either. However, my most recent bank statement indicates that they have cashed my check, so there is hope. Maybe they were overwhelmed by requests! Esther Whitney Mott ----- Original Message ----- From: whitney-request@rootsweb.com To: whitney@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 7:28 AM Subject: WHITNEY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 137 Today's Topics: 1. Ancestors in England of John Whitney of Watertown, Mass. (Farns10th@aol.com) 2. Re: Ancestors in England of John Whitney of Watertown, Mass. (Farns10th@aol.com) 3. Whitney Samplers (adrian brisee) 4. Re: Ancestors in England of John Whitney of Watertown, Mass. (Robert L. Ward) 5. Re: Whitney Samplers (Tim Doyle) 6. Re: Ancestors in England of John Whitney of Watertown, Mass. (Jonathan Whitney) 7. Re: Ancestors in England of John Whitney of Watertown, Mass. (Lowell Whitney) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 21:55:13 EDT From: Farns10th@aol.com Subject: [WHITNEY] Ancestors in England of John Whitney of Watertown, Mass. To: GenMassachusetts-L@rootsweb.com Cc: whitney@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <ce4.17370873.33e3e501@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" This transcription with the full transcription of the Whitney family of Watertownl, Mass. sent on request to me, personally. - Janice Farnsworth Subject: WHITNEY. Source: Genealogical & Personal Memoirs Relating to the Families of the State of Massachusetts by William Richard Cutter, William Frederick Adams MASSACHUSETTS. p.1 The surname Whitney was originally a place name. The parish from which the family takes its name is located in County Hereford, England, upon the extreme western border, adjoining Wales and is traversed by the lovely Wye river. The name of the place doubtless comes from the appearance of the river, meaning in Saxon, white water, from hecit, white, and ey, water. The coat of arms of the Whitney family of Whitney is: Azure, a cross chequy or and gules. Crest: A bull's head couped sable, armed argent, the points gules. The English ancestry of John Whitney, the immigrant who settled at Watertown, Massachusetts, has been established by Henry Melville and presented in an exquisi- tely printed and illustrated volume. Very few Amerian families have their English genealogy in such well authenticated and satisfactory form. An abstract of the English ancestry is given below. (I) Turstin, "the Fleming," otherwise known as Turstin de Wigmore, probably also as Turstin, son of Rolf, and Turstin "the White," was a follower of William the Conqueror. He was mentioned in the Domesday book as an extensive land holder in herefordshire and the Marches of Wales. He married Agnes, daughter of Alured de Merleberge, a Norman baron of Ewias Castle, in the Marches of Wales. (II) Eustace, son of Turstin, was a benefactor of the monastery of St. Peter, in Gloucester, England. He or one of his immediate descendants took the surname De Whitney from Whitney on the Wye, in the Marches of Wales, where his principal castle was located. The estate comprised over two thousand acres, and remained in the family until 1893, when it was sold, there being no member of the family to hold it. The castle has entirely disappeared, but it is believed to be in ruins under the Wye, which has in the course of years changed its path. The castle was probably built on an artificial mound, surrounded by a moat fed by the river, which gradually undermined the castle, which was at last disintegrated. (III) Sir Robert de Whitney, a direct descendant of Eustace, was living in 1242 and was mentioned in the "Testa de Nevill." Three or four intervening generations cannot be stated with certainty. (IV) Sir Eustace de Whitney, son of Sir Robert, gave deed to the monastery of St. Peter in 1280, referring to and confirming the deed of his ancestors above ment- ioned. He was Lord of Pencombe, Little Cowarn and Whitney in 1281; was granted free warren by Edward I in 1284; summoned to wars beyond the seas in 1297; tenant of part of the manor of Huntington in 1299; in Scotch war in 1301. He was possibly grandson instead of son of Sir Robert. (V) Sir Eustace de Whitney, son of Sir Eustace, was knighted by Edward I in 1306 and was a member of Parliament for Herefordshire in 1313 and 1352. (VI) Sir Robert de Whitney, son of Sir Eusatce, was one of two hundred gentlemen who went to Milan in the retinue of the Duke of Clarence on occasion of the latter's marriage in 1368. He was a member of parliament for Herefordshire in 1377, 1379 and 1380 and Sheriff in 1377. (VII) Sir Robert Whitney, son of Sir Robert, was sent abroad to negotiate treaty with the Count of Flanders in 1388; a member of Parliament for Herefordshire in 1391. He was sent to France to deliver the castle and town of Cherbourg to the King of Navarre in 1393; was knight marshal in the Court of Richard II; sent on King's business with his brother and most of his relatives, at the battle of Pilleth, 1402. (VIII) Sir Robert Whitney, son of Sir Robert, was granted the castle of Clifford and lordship of Clifford and Glasbury by Henry IV in 1404, on account of the services of his father. He was Sheriff of Herfordshire 1416-1422. He fought in the French war under Henry V, and was Captain of the castle and town of Vire in 1420. He was named as one of the five knights in Hereforshire in 1433, and died March 12, 1441. p.2 (IX) Sir Eustace de Whitney, son of Sir Robert, was born in 1411. He was head of a commission sent to Wales by Henry VI in 1455 and was a member of parliament for Herefordshire in 1468. He married Jenett Russell; he m. (2) Jane Clifford. (X) Robert Whitney, son of Sir Eustace (9) was probably a knight and was an active participant in the War of the Roses, and was attainted as a Yorkist in 1459. He was probably at the battle of Mortimer's Cross in 1461. He was the subject of a poem by Lewis Glyn Cothi, on the occasion of his marriage to Alice, the great- granddaughter of Sir David Gam. He married first, Alice daughter of Thomas Vaughan; second, Constance Touchett, who was the mother of his sons. She was decended from William the Conqueror, through the second wife of Edward I, King of England. (XI) James Whitney, son of Robert, was appointed receiver of Newport, part of the estate of the Duke of Buckingham, confiscated by Henry VII in 1522. He married Blanche, daughter and an heir of Simon Milbourne. (XII) Robert Whitney, son of James Whitney was of Icomb and in charge of other consfiscated estates. He was Sheriff of Gloucestershire, 1527, 1528, 1529 and 1530. He was nominated Knight of the Bath by Henry VIII at the coronation of Anne Boleyn in 1531; was granted part of income of monastery of Brewern in 1535; furn- ished forty men to put down the rebellion in 1536. He was named to attend upon the King's person. He died in 1541, and his Will was proved June 11, 1541. He married Margaret Wye. (XIII) Sir Robert Whitney, son of Robert, was knighted in October, 1553. He was summoned before the Privy Council in 1555 and 1559. He was a member of Parliament for Herefordshire in 1559, and died August 5, 1567. He married Sybil Baskerville, a descendant of William the Conqueror through the first wife of Edward I. (XIV) Robert Whitney son of Sir Robert, was mentioned in the Will of his father, and also in an inquisition taken after the latter's death. He married Elizabeth, daughter of Morgan Guillims, or Duglim. (XV) Thomas Whitney, son of Robert, was of Westminster, Gentleman. He was buried at St. Margaret's, April 14, 1637. He married Mary, the daughter of John Bray of Westminster; she was buried at St. Margaret's September 25, 1629. Children: 1. John Whitney, the American emigrant, settled at Watertown, Massachusetts. 2. Nicholas Whitney. 3. William Whitney. 4. Richard Whitney 5. Margaret Whitney. 6. Anne Whitney. End. Transcribed by Janice Farnsworth This file together with John Whitney, Bond's Watertown - sent on request to me personally. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 23:48:43 EDT From: Farns10th@aol.com Subject: Re: [WHITNEY] Ancestors in England of John Whitney of Watertown, Mass. To: Robert@RLWard.com, whitney@rootsweb.com, GenMassachusetts-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <bc4.1731e53b.33e3ff9b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 8/2/2007 9:42:17 PM Mountain Daylight Time, Robert@RLWard.com writes: The link was finally disproven by Paul C. Reed in 1994. Both articles are in _The American Genealogist_. Yes, now that you mention that I recall P. C. Reed in 1994 and the big debate. I just type them, I dont research them. Janice Farnsworth ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 21:30:13 -0700 (PDT) From: adrian brisee <abrisee@yahoo.com> Subject: [WHITNEY] Whitney Samplers To: whitney@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <538160.32501.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 There are two Whitney samplers being offered on a live auction on ebay. The item number is 110155314683 and the live auction will be August 9th. But for those of us who can't afford them, (the two start at $150.00) they provided excellent pictures of the items. The following were copied from the ad. Family Record George W Martin dec 17. 1887 Agnes W Hutchinson jan 22. 1891 married jan 29. 1916 Amy Temberton [could be Pemberton] jan 24. 1917 Julia Whitney dec 4. 1916 [or 1918] Agnes Wharton dec 30. 1922 George Whitney jan 25. 1926 Fanny Alice june 5. 1981 Family Record Warham Whitney born. April 27 1786 ? Nancy Whitney born. Feb 2 1792 ? _______________Married June 30 1811 ? Caroline Whitney born. August 28 1812 ? Olive Whitney born. June 19 1814 ? Lois Ann Whitney born. Oct 8 1816 ? George Whitney born. Jan 26 1819 ? James M Whitney born. Feb 24 1821 ? Laura Jane Whitney born. Jan 16 1824 Nelson W Whitney born. Feb 26 1826 ? ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 23:41:40 -0400 From: "Robert L. Ward" <Robert@RLWard.com> Subject: Re: [WHITNEY] Ancestors in England of John Whitney of Watertown, Mass. To: whitney@rootsweb.com, GenMassachusetts-L@rootsweb.com, Farns10th@aol.com Message-ID: <0JM6009S8IAB99B3@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Janice and others, At 09:55 PM 8/2/2007, Farns10th@aol.com wrote: >This transcription with the full transcription of the Whitney family of >Watertown, Mass. sent on request >to me, personally. - Janice Farnsworth > >Subject: WHITNEY. >Source: Genealogical & Personal Memoirs Relating to the Families of the >State of >Massachusetts by William Richard Cutter, William Frederick Adams The lineage given is wrong, despite Melville's book saying it is so. The Robert Whitney of generation (XIV) was not the same as Robert, son of Sir Robert Whitney of generation (XIII). Doubt was cast on this connection by Jacobus in 1933, on chronological grounds. The link was finally disproven by Paul C. Reed in 1994. Both articles are in _The American Genealogist_. An alternate theory of the Whitney ancestry just came out. See: Robert Leigh Ward and Tim Doyle, "The Whitney Lineage of John-1 Whitney of Watertown, Massachusetts," _The American Genealogist_, vol. 81, no. 4 (Oct 2006), pp. 249-262. It makes (XV) Thomas Whitney a possible second cousin, not a grandson, of (XIII) Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney. See also the Whitney Research Group website at http://wiki.whitneygen.org The parts of Bond's _Watertown_ dealing with the Whitney family can also be found on the same website, at http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Archive:Early_Settlers_of_Watertown%2C_Massachusetts Regards, Robert Mr. Robert L. Ward http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/User:Rlward ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 07:30:10 -0500 From: "Tim Doyle" <tim@greenscourt.com> Subject: Re: [WHITNEY] Whitney Samplers To: <whitney@rootsweb.com> Cc: jjensen@wilmington.net Message-ID: <000201c7d5ca$09623690$5901a8c0@outburst.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The second sampler related to the family of Warham-7 Whitney (John-6, Joshua-5, Nathaniel-4, Nathaniel-3, John-2, John-1). For more information, see: http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/Family:Whitney%2C_Warham_%281786-18 40%29 The closest relative we have on file is a direct descendant, Susan T. Jensen. Other close relatives include Janet Kral, Victoria & Doug Smith, Candace Klomann, Elizabeth White, Clifford Dale Whitney, Stuart Pyper, Karen Bree, Carol Logan, David Norcutt, Kim Holeton, Matthew R. Whitney, and "Effie15" on the WRG website. Tim -----Original Message----- From: whitney-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:whitney-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of adrian brisee Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 11:30 PM To: whitney@rootsweb.com Subject: [WHITNEY] Whitney Samplers There are two Whitney samplers being offered on a live auction on ebay. The item number is 110155314683 and the live auction will be August 9th. But for those of us who can't afford them, (the two start at $150.00) they provided excellent pictures of the items. The following were copied from the ad. Family Record George W Martin dec 17. 1887 Agnes W Hutchinson jan 22. 1891 married jan 29. 1916 Amy Temberton [could be Pemberton] jan 24. 1917 Julia Whitney dec 4. 1916 [or 1918] Agnes Wharton dec 30. 1922 George Whitney jan 25. 1926 Fanny Alice june 5. 1981 Family Record Warham Whitney born. April 27 1786 ? Nancy Whitney born. Feb 2 1792 ? _______________Married June 30 1811 ? Caroline Whitney born. August 28 1812 ? Olive Whitney born. June 19 1814 ? Lois Ann Whitney born. Oct 8 1816 ? George Whitney born. Jan 26 1819 ? James M Whitney born. Feb 24 1821 ? Laura Jane Whitney born. Jan 16 1824 Nelson W Whitney born. Feb 26 1826 ? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WHITNEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 09:16:05 -0500 From: Jonathan Whitney <ccreview@grics.net> Subject: Re: [WHITNEY] Ancestors in England of John Whitney of Watertown, Mass. To: whitney@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <94C8D0FD-EC24-48CB-A6F7-3BE4E9AA1243@grics.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Robert, Is there some way the WRG can solve the problem of this erroneous information continually "popping up" and confusing many, particularly those who are just beginning. I know that when I first started the quest of finding my Whitney "roots", I found Melville and was elated. Another cousin and I looked carefully at the chronological order and thought something was wrong, but didn't do anything because this had been so eloquently "proven". For me, it happened in the late 1970s. Then, I managed to get the data into my computer in the early 1980s. And, it still keeps popping up. I think I've got it out, but I'm not 100 percent sure. I guess it would be nice if we were able to either block the info from discussion on the Whitney site, or in the interest of preserving free speech, always flag it with a caveat. It's so easy for someone to grab this, believe it to be the gospel and perpetuate the myth. Just some thoughts. On another issue, I placed an order (with my check) for yours and Tim's article in the American Genealogist, vol. 81, no. 4, Octl 2006, pp. 249-262, re the Whitney Lineage of John Whitney of Watertown, Massachusetts on July 14, but have not received it. Do you know if others are having the same problem? Jon Whitney On Aug 2, 2007, at 10:41 PM, Robert L. Ward wrote: > Janice and others, > > At 09:55 PM 8/2/2007, Farns10th@aol.com wrote: >> This transcription with the full transcription of the Whitney >> family of >> Watertown, Mass. sent on request >> to me, personally. - Janice Farnsworth >> >> Subject: WHITNEY. >> Source: Genealogical & Personal Memoirs Relating to the Families >> of the >> State of >> Massachusetts by William Richard Cutter, William Frederick Adams > > The lineage given is wrong, despite Melville's book saying it is > so. The Robert Whitney of generation (XIV) was not the same as > Robert, son of Sir Robert Whitney of generation (XIII). Doubt was > cast on this connection by Jacobus in 1933, on chronological > grounds. The link was finally disproven by Paul C. Reed in > 1994. Both articles are in _The American Genealogist_. > > An alternate theory of the Whitney ancestry just came out. See: > > Robert Leigh Ward and Tim Doyle, "The Whitney Lineage of > John-1 Whitney > of Watertown, Massachusetts," _The American Genealogist_, > vol. 81, no. 4 > (Oct 2006), pp. 249-262. > > It makes (XV) Thomas Whitney a possible second cousin, not a > grandson, of (XIII) Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney. See also the > Whitney Research Group website at > > http://wiki.whitneygen.org > > The parts of Bond's _Watertown_ dealing with the Whitney family can > also be found on the same website, at > > http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/ > Archive:Early_Settlers_of_Watertown%2C_Massachusetts > > Regards, > > Robert > > Mr. Robert L. Ward > http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/User:Rlward > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WHITNEY- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:30:27 -0600 From: "Lowell Whitney" <lowell.whitney@quoinindustrial.com> Subject: Re: [WHITNEY] Ancestors in England of John Whitney of Watertown, Mass. To: <whitney@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <DIENIKAAMACMOJKOHJBPAENIDBAA.lowell.whitney@quoinindustrial.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" I too have sent in a check but have not recieved a copy of the American Genealogist. Lowell Whitney -----Original Message----- From: whitney-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:whitney-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Jonathan Whitney Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 8:16 AM To: whitney@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WHITNEY] Ancestors in England of John Whitney of Watertown,Mass. Robert, Is there some way the WRG can solve the problem of this erroneous information continually "popping up" and confusing many, particularly those who are just beginning. I know that when I first started the quest of finding my Whitney "roots", I found Melville and was elated. Another cousin and I looked carefully at the chronological order and thought something was wrong, but didn't do anything because this had been so eloquently "proven". For me, it happened in the late 1970s. Then, I managed to get the data into my computer in the early 1980s. And, it still keeps popping up. I think I've got it out, but I'm not 100 percent sure. I guess it would be nice if we were able to either block the info from discussion on the Whitney site, or in the interest of preserving free speech, always flag it with a caveat. It's so easy for someone to grab this, believe it to be the gospel and perpetuate the myth. Just some thoughts. On another issue, I placed an order (with my check) for yours and Tim's article in the American Genealogist, vol. 81, no. 4, Octl 2006, pp. 249-262, re the Whitney Lineage of John Whitney of Watertown, Massachusetts on July 14, but have not received it. Do you know if others are having the same problem? Jon Whitney On Aug 2, 2007, at 10:41 PM, Robert L. Ward wrote: > Janice and others, > > At 09:55 PM 8/2/2007, Farns10th@aol.com wrote: >> This transcription with the full transcription of the Whitney >> family of >> Watertown, Mass. sent on request >> to me, personally. - Janice Farnsworth >> >> Subject: WHITNEY. >> Source: Genealogical & Personal Memoirs Relating to the Families >> of the >> State of >> Massachusetts by William Richard Cutter, William Frederick Adams > > The lineage given is wrong, despite Melville's book saying it is > so. The Robert Whitney of generation (XIV) was not the same as > Robert, son of Sir Robert Whitney of generation (XIII). Doubt was > cast on this connection by Jacobus in 1933, on chronological > grounds. The link was finally disproven by Paul C. Reed in > 1994. Both articles are in _The American Genealogist_. > > An alternate theory of the Whitney ancestry just came out. See: > > Robert Leigh Ward and Tim Doyle, "The Whitney Lineage of > John-1 Whitney > of Watertown, Massachusetts," _The American Genealogist_, > vol. 81, no. 4 > (Oct 2006), pp. 249-262. > > It makes (XV) Thomas Whitney a possible second cousin, not a > grandson, of (XIII) Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney. See also the > Whitney Research Group website at > > http://wiki.whitneygen.org > > The parts of Bond's _Watertown_ dealing with the Whitney family can > also be found on the same website, at > > http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/ > Archive:Early_Settlers_of_Watertown%2C_Massachusetts > > Regards, > > Robert > > Mr. Robert L. Ward > http://wiki.whitneygen.org/wrg/index.php/User:Rlward > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WHITNEY- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WHITNEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/933 - Release Date: 8/2/2007 2:22 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/933 - Release Date: 8/2/2007 2:22 PM ------------------------------ To contact the WHITNEY list administrator, send an email to WHITNEY-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the WHITNEY mailing list, send an email to WHITNEY@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WHITNEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of WHITNEY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 137 ***************************************