This is very interesting. I have blood type A negative. I have been told that the negative type blood comes originally from the Spanish Pyrenees. It would be interesting to know if the Whitney line had origins in Spain. Ruthie

All, At 02:51 PM 1/29/01 -0500, Lorgriff@aol.com wrote: >Dear Whitney Research Group, > >I have been a subscriber to this list for about two months and wish to add >some info, as well as ask a few questions. > >I am seeking information on Patty WATKINS, the wife of Fisher WHITNEY (Jason, >Mark, Benjamin, John), and the mother of his two children, Patty Watkins >WHITNEY >GRISWOLD, born 1800, and James Watkins WHITNEY, born 1803. Fisher was born >on 2 Jan 1775 in Natick, MA, married Patty in June 1797 in Italy, Yates Co., >NY, and died on 19 Dec 1805 in Italy, Yates Co., NY. Patty WATKINS was born >in 1780 in Peru, NY and died in 1849 in MA? After the death of Fisher, she >married Elias LEE and had eight children with him. She is supposed to be >buried next to Fisher WHITNEY in Italy, Yates Co., NY. Our records show that Fisher WHITNEY "of Middleton, N.Y." and Patty WATKINS published their intentions of marriage 19 Jun 1799 in Peru, Berkshire Co., MA. Then Fisher WHITNEY and Patty WATKINS "of Partridgefield" were married 28 Jul 1799 in Natick, Middlesex Co., MA. According to the Mormons' IGI, Patty WATKINS was herself a WHITNEY descendant, being daughter of James and Esther (WHITNEY) WATKINS, b. ca. 1778, Peru, MA. This was Esther-4 WHITNEY (Mark-3, Benjamin-2, John-1), b. 3 Oct 1742, Hopkinton, MA. Be aware that this source is not a reliable one, however!! Regards, Robert Robert L. Ward WHITNEY Research Group <http://www.whitneygen.org/>

Dear Cousins, The University of Utah has a big genetics research project because of all genealogy based here. They might be interested. Also, what about publishing a CD book like Pierce did in 1890's with tons of Whitneys. this would be mostly a matter of dumping what we have on computer onto a CD-ROM. These can be duplicated in quantity for around a dollar. Can sell for a slight profit for the "cause". Also members can add photos biographies. a lot of non listers would buy too. Gary Wallace

Mike, I don't think that this is a discussion of "jumping on the bandwagon" to prove something to ourselves. I think the fact that we have documented evidence of descent from one couple can provide valuable information for genetics research such as Greg Cote confirmed. Yes it is expensive, but if it is being done by a researcher then the cost would most likely be carried by the institution funding the research. Certainly an interesting concept. Jo Hogle

Hi all, My Whitney relatives are light complected with light hair and eyes and slightly built. My dad was 5'9" and his brother was a jockey (which tells you how slight HE was). I am blood type O positive, which I think is the same as what my dad had. I agree with the comments that stated that the Whitney blood would be so diluted among us that there is probably no statisically significant difference between all of us and the general population. I am a civil engineer, but I work with a bunch of biologists who are into geneotyping of salmon (endangered species here in California). The tests are expensive. To make them less expensive when looking at a large sample population, the geneticists generally look for a marker so that they don't have to type the entire chromosome. As I understand it, that also means that the results just give you a probability of a specific outcome for the population (ie we are all related) rather than a certainty for specific individuals. Vicky in California Babseeb@aol.com wrote: > The DNA Discussion Is interesting. > I would like to see some comparison of the size/other features and > occupations. My Whitneys were small or short in stature. The picture I have > of my ggrandfather shows a fine featured aesthetic man. He was a professor > and many of his 8 sons were lawyers. > Most all of the young people today are of larger size than during the > 1800s. Nutrition today is so much improved. Many more are attending the > Universities than even in my generation. There are so many more fields in > the study of the sciences and Math. > Barbara Black in Sacramento

Hi, My dad was taught German and Latin by age eight or nine. His mother wanted him to be a priest and his father wanted him to become a surgeon or a lawyer. He was an alter boy until age eighteen. He was drafted into World War II. He drew short straw and was sent to the front lines of Germany. He was not expected to return and he married my mother on a weekend pass, so someone would be waiting for him, should he return. He was leading his troops into a Victory battle when a bomb landed near him and buried him alive. A young man we do not know went back to see if my dad was still alive and hand dug him out. By this time my father was pumped with adrenalin and raced ahead and led his men into the victory battle. My dad was of thin build, but muscular. Blue eyes and reddish blond hair.Maybe about 5' 10 or 11 inches. He could use both hands left and right. He played golf and baseball left handed. He could write with both hands. A lawyer, a doctor, no not for my dad. He had to go to the front lines and try to help stop the war against Hitler. In later years he graduated from college and went into the counseling profession to counsel on how to keep families together. He always wanted me to become a lawyer. I would have liked it, but I went to Nursing school. My dad use to read about twenty books a week. We use to say he had shares in the town Library. When I think of the name Whitney I think dark hair, I do not know why. Maureen ----- Original Message ----- From: <Babseeb@aol.com> To: <WHITNEY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [WHITNEY-L] DNA/or- other characteistics in past generations > The DNA Discussion Is interesting. > I would like to see some comparison of the size/other features and > occupations. My Whitneys were small or short in stature. The picture I have > of my ggrandfather shows a fine featured aesthetic man. He was a professor > and many of his 8 sons were lawyers. > Most all of the young people today are of larger size than during the > 1800s. Nutrition today is so much improved. Many more are attending the > Universities than even in my generation. There are so many more fields in > the study of the sciences and Math. > Barbara Black in Sacramento > >

I'm a biochemist, but do not specialize in genetics/molecular biology. However, a conversation with my colleagues at lunch today concluded that Jo Hogle is correct. We have so many genes, and so many ancestors from the era of John & Elinor Whitney that it would be extremely difficult to associate any particular marker with descent from that couple. However, the fact that such a large group as the WRG has documented its descent from a single couple could aid genetic researchers in developing a database that could eventually be used for this kind of research. Greg Cote to: IN:dnk@mail.escapees.com cc: IN:whitney-L@rootsweb.org

It is improbable that there is any one blood type that distiguishes the Whitney kindred. Certainly, it is unlikely that any type in the ABO/Rhesus system will be adequate to define the kindred. Type O is the most common of the blood types and it can be expected that most members of the family will have this, but A, B, and AB types should show up in about the same proportions as found in the general population. Since none of us are likely to have high proportions of Whitney blood in us (especially if we are discussing kindreds descending from the early 1600s), most of the blood types will be influenced by the marriage partners of the Whitney line. While there are regional variations--northern European vs Mediterranean, for instance--these should not materially affect the distribution of types in the Whitney kindred. Likewise Rhesus types are about 85 percent positive in the United States and it is unlikely that the Whitney kindred varies from this norm. If one considers the minor blood types: Duffy, Lutheran, etc., etc., the probablility of a distinctive type becomes even smaller. Alas, the only sure clue to descent is good genealogical research. DNA, while fascinating, is exceedingly expensive to examine and which type should one look at and which marker would one use? This is one band wagon that it is fun to speculate about and totally impractical to jump on. Mike Poston Rockville, Maryland

The DNA Discussion Is interesting. I would like to see some comparison of the size/other features and occupations. My Whitneys were small or short in stature. The picture I have of my ggrandfather shows a fine featured aesthetic man. He was a professor and many of his 8 sons were lawyers. Most all of the young people today are of larger size than during the 1800s. Nutrition today is so much improved. Many more are attending the Universities than even in my generation. There are so many more fields in the study of the sciences and Math. Barbara Black in Sacramento

Dear Whitney Research Group, I have been a subscriber to this list for about two months and wish to add some info, as well as ask a few questions. I am seeking information on Patty WATKINS, the wife of Fisher WHITNEY (Jason, Mark, Benjamin, John), and the mother of his two children, Patty Watkins WHITNEY GRISWOLD, born 1800, and James Watkins WHITNEY, born 1803. Fisher was born on 2 Jan 1775 in Natick, MA, married Patty in June 1797 in Italy, Yates Co., NY, and died on 19 Dec 1805 in Italy, Yates Co., NY. Patty WATKINS was born in 1780 in Peru, NY and died in 1849 in MA? After the death of Fisher, she married Elias LEE and had eight children with him. She is supposed to be buried next to Fisher WHITNEY in Italy, Yates Co., NY. I have a transcript of a conversation held on 14 April 1895 by my paternal gr-gr-gr-grandmother Rhoda TYLER WATERS HENION HILL LAMPKINS, 1806 - 1897, (Lorrie Darrah Griffin - me, Gordon T. Darrah, Garnett Hoot Darrah, Nellie Waters Hoot, Albert Waters, Rhoda), daughter of Nathan TYLER and Keziah RICHARDSON, in which she describes her siblings, her children and the family of her first husband, Calvin WATERS (my ancestor). Of interest to fellow members of this forum, I hope, is the mention Rhoda makes of her stepmother, Patty WATKINS WHITNEY LEE TYLER. Part of her conversation is as follows: “When Father was a young married man he moved to York State...” Rhoda then lists the names and dates of birth of her siblings, the youngest of which was Lavinia, born 8 Feb 1818. “Lavinia was about 6 years old when Mother died [ca 1824]. Father married again about a year after Mother’s death to a widow named Patty LEE. She had buried two husbands previous to her marriage to Father and had two children by her first husband, whose name was Fisher WHITNEY. The children were Patty and James. Her second husband, Elias LEE, died and left her with eight children: Betsy, the oldest, Silas, Esther, William, Polly, Dedema, Rodney, and Peda, who died when young.” Do any WHITNEY researchers have any information regarding the marriage between my ancestor Nathan TYLER and Patty WATKINS WHITNEY LEE, which occurred ca 1825-26, probably in Yates Co., NY, as well as death/burial info on Nathan TYLER? I have found a Nathan TYLER in the 1830, 1835 and 1840 censuses for Italy, Yates Co., NY which I am assuming is “my” Nathan TYLER. On the Yates Co., NY GenWeb site, under “Estates,” I found an entry for a “Patty TYLER” filed in 1849, which includes James WHITNEY and Patty WHITNEY GRISWOLD and some of her LEE children, which makes me certain that this is the Patty I am seeking information on. If members of the WRG would like a full transcript of Rhoda’s 1895 conversation, please let me know and I shall happily send a copy (which would then be a part of the archives). I have found that Rhoda's information has been "right on" and has led me to finding a lot of info on her siblings and her children. Thank you in advance. I look forward to hearing from anyone who might be able to assist me. Sincerely, Lorrie Darrah Griffin - lorgriff@aol.com Muskegon Co., MI

My local genealogy society joined many other societies last Nov. to draw blood from its membership. The samples will be used to chart the migration patterns of the human race across Asia, Europe and where ever it takes them. This charting has already begun and will be done over a 50 year time frame. Contact your state or county genealogy groups. Hope this helps, Karen Childs Oregon

I could not resist this, but a heck of a lot of skeletons might appear if someone does this. Sandra

A couple of members have mentioned having "O" blood types: My husband's blood type was "O" and our daughter's blood type is "O." Both of our sons have my blood type, AB+, and I do not believe any of my immediate Whitneys (father, brother, sister) had "O." Merry Whitney

Caution- Use of old forms at NARA Customer Services Center(inquire@nara.gov) no longer accepted! ----------------------------- Dear Customer:Recently NARA announced changes in the fees charged for copies of records, effective Nov. 13,2000. The NATF-80 series of reference forms that you have ordered have been redesigned to reflect the new prices and procedures, as well as to make them compatible with our order processing system. Until further notice, there is a limit of five (5) forms of any one type per individual request. Enclosed are the forms you ordere3d, subject to this limit. If you ordered NATF Form 80(Order for Copies of Veterans Records), please note that this form has been replaced by two new forms, the NATF Form 85 for pension records and the NATF Form 86 for military service records. After November 13, 2000, we can no longer accept reference requests on previous editions of NATF 80-series(80, 81, 82, 83, and 84). Please recycle or destroy all remaining copies of the obsolete forms. ----------------------------- I got this back from the NARA. It is a fee increase in the cost of requests. Of course I expect the turn around time will shorten. Yeah, and pigs will fly too! James E. Whitney, II

Find DNA discussion interesting. Maureen I am also re neg type O. Lois Whitney Bauman

I agree with John Fischer regarding the value of assisting with DNA research. Yes they can go back many generations. I believe (but I am not positive) that although they could not prove the descent of all of us from John and Elinor (or Henry or whomever), without a sample of their DNA, they can find a genetic link that would link us all together, and with the genealogy research to back up the proof, it would be fairly indisputable. This type of research was done in England a couple of years ago. However they did have a bone sample apparently. No, we don't need this evidence for our genealogy. But, as John mentioned, DNA and genetic research such as this is truly still in the infant stages, and a large group such as we have (including our extended families) would give a researcher an incredible database for such study. So it would be done for science rather than our genealogical needs. Someone mentioned skeletons in the closet. Most assuredly they are there, and that is a risk we would be taking. We would all have to ask ourselves what happens if we discover that our firm link is very shaky due to some apparent infidelity 8 or 9 generations back. I know what my personal response would be to that, and it would not change my own personal view on being a Whitney. I firmly believe that blood is not always thicker than water. Someone raised as a Whitney by a Whitney IS a Whitney, or whatever the surname may be. Yes, some will argue this, but I have my reasons for this viewpoint. It may not be absolute genealogy, but family is more important than blood in my book. Okay - that went off on a tangent. Anyway, my former husband is a biochemist and researcher at Harvard. he doesn't work with DNA, but I would bet he can point us in the right direction to someone who does. I will send him a note and ask his opinion on this. Just for the halibut! Jo Hogle

Thanks for the information, Ken. It seems the Whitneys (who numbered nearly 10,000 a century ago) have been both prolific and ubiquituous. On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Kenneth Whitney wrote: > Hello Karl, > There is at least one and probably more black Whitney families in > Washington, D.C. and environs. Basketball fans will remember Charles > "Hawkeye" Whitney, a product of D.C. who went on to star in the Atlantic > Coast Conference, where he played basketball, I believe for N.C. State. > > Ken Whitney > Silver Spring, MD > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: karl h schwerin <schwerin@unm.edu> > To: <WHITNEY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 8:44 AM > Subject: Re: [WHITNEY-L] Question > > > > Alonzo B. Whitney, who was white (he is pictured in "Family Treasures" by > > David D. Whitney. Lancaster, PA: The Jaques Cattell Press, see no. 4, p. > > 18), was Capt. of a company of negros. He was shot 12 December 1864 by a > > negro on the picket line near New Orleans. > > > > Apparently white officers were appointed to lead negro or "Colored" > > troops. This is not to say that there may not be (and probably are) some > > Black Whitneys. In this case, however, my guess would be that since these > > were officers, they were _not_ colored. > > > > On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, W. WHITNEY wrote: > > > > > On pages 1006 and 1007 in Phoenix, some of the > > > male children of Bennet Whitney and Susan Curtis > > > are officers in the "U.S. Colored Troops". Does this > > > mean that they were colored themselves or were > > > officers of the day all white. > > > > > > If they were colored, with whom did this line start ? > > > > > > No offense meant, just curious. > > > > > > Bill Whitney > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karl Schwerin SnailMail: Dept. of Anthropology > > Univ. of New Mexico Albuquerque, NM 87131 > > e-mail: schwerin@unm.edu > > > > Cultural anthropology...is valuable because it is constantly rediscovering > > the normal. Edward Sapir (1949:151) > > > > ______________________________ > > Karl Schwerin SnailMail: Dept. of Anthropology Univ. of New Mexico Albuquerque, NM 87131 e-mail: schwerin@unm.edu Cultural anthropology...is valuable because it is constantly rediscovering the normal. Edward Sapir (1949:151)

Hi everyone, I don't see how a DNA study would benefit us. Through genealogical research, we have been able to find many of our ancestors. Perhaps a benefit in the study of a specific gene caused condition like Diabetes or Cystic Fibrosis or a chromosomal abnormality like Downs Syndrome would make it worthwhile. Do we have a high rate of these? As Jeanne mentioned , it will be interesting to see what our doctor and scientist members have to say about this. I don't know if this means anything, but I have found through private correspondence with WRG members, that many of them are tall, and their children are tall. Boys/men reaching 6'2-3" are common and many even taller at 6'4" Also I think it interesting that many of the girls in the generation below me and Jeanne, (girls now in their late teens and twenties) are pursuing careers in science. My college age daughter is a Chemistry major, Jeanne's is a microbiologist, etc......maybe just a result of the wider opportunities open to young women now. Well anyway, to do a DNA study wouldn't we have to have a lot of Whitneys gathered together in one place .......like..... say...... at a Reunion? Have a good day, from Carolyn Whitney Branagan

Hi, I actually have a sample of my mother's hair. Apparently, hair samples of toddlers often were taken and placed in family albums. My mother died when I was three years old and I have been fascinated by the possibilities of learning about her life through a DNA study of her hair. My gut feeling is that the expense is prohibitive for other than medical/forensic use at this point, but I'm quite open to the idea. I'm also concerned with protection of privacy issues. Best regards, Jim Whitney

John/Maureen: This is fascinating, and I will help coordinate this type of study with other family lines if it really works. Can you send me any of the info/links you have? It is still unclear, to me, how they can determine, with at least 99% assurance, a direct descendancy going back more than a few generations. But, sure, I would participate if I had written assurance that the data was going to be used soley for the purposes of genealogy, and then discarded. I wonder how many generations they can go back? My own direct ancestry goes to Ruth Whitney, who married John Shattuck. Ruth's parents were John Whitney and Ruth Reynolds -- and that's a loooooong time ago .... could they really determine a definite link? Could they even get samples? I suppose that knowing blood types would rule out certain individuals yet it would not prove anything for certain. We have many more links to modern Whitneys through my Wallace *cousins* in Massachusetts. The DNA breakdown is interesting and I plan to learn more about this today. I will report back to the group once I get the details. Steven ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maureen" <abc@empire.net> To: <WHITNEY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [WHITNEY-L] DNA Evidence of Descent??? > I would also participate in this study. I am O neg. blood type. This is not > enough information. They have a mouth swab test that is done now.Not > invasive at all. I hear it is very accurate. I do not have much information > on this but hear it is excellent. > Maureen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John E Fischer" <fischerj@one.net> > To: <WHITNEY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 10:04 PM > Subject: [WHITNEY-L] DNA Evidence of Descent??? > > > > WRG > > > > Has anyone in the Group considered the possibility of doing DNA > comparisons to find out if we can 'prove' descent from say John & Elinor? (I > > happen to be from the John/Elinor group but the same thing could be done > in each of the other groups.) With the good sized population we have > > who are all descendants of one pair perhaps we could be of value to > someone's study of DNA and descent. Sounds to me like it could be a win > > win study. What do you think? I for one would gladly donate a sample of > blood to compare with the group to see if relationship could be > > established. > > > > John > > > > > > > >