I went to the WRG website and found the Reed article, but cannot locate the one by Jacobus. Any hints on where to find it? On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 ALLAGREEN@aol.com wrote: > Dear WRG: > > Apropos Merry's question, I would suggest that anyone interested visit the > WRG website (http://www.whitneygen.org) and read the two articles that may be > found there that address this question. One was written back in the 1930's > by Donald Lines Jacobus, one of the grand old men of American Genealogy, and > one whose work is very highly respected. There is also another article by a > current professional researcher from Salt Lake City (I think that's where he > lives) named Paul Reed, who picks up Jacobus article and carries it further, > probably based on some material that may not have been available earlier. > He, too, demonstrates that it is highly unlikely that Thomas is the son of > the particular Robert Whitney that would make him the grandson of Sir Robert > and Sybil, but it is difficult to "prove" a negative. His case is based on > Thomas's age and estimated birth year, and the customs and patterns of > inheritance that shows that Thomas could not be the first or second son, and > if I don't stop speaking from memory, I'll get it all muddled up. Go to the > website and look them up, and I think that you will come to the same > conclusion that I have, this link from Melville is flawed, and we need to > find another line for Thomas' connection to the Hereford Whitneys. > > As to what Robert Ward thinks of this, he did publish a speculation several > years ago that questioned the solidity of John--1's connection to Thomas and > Mary Bray Whitney. However, there is enough to satisfy me (barring, of > course, further information being found) in the connections to the Merchant > Tailor's Company for John and his younger brother, Robert, whom he in turn > took as an apprentice that fits with (and again I speak from memory, but it > is 5:16 in the morning) some kind of relationship for Mary Bray's father, > John Bray, and the same Merchant Tailor's Company. > > I'll let Robert speak for himself on all this. > > This is not a good week for me to dig back into my paper records for material > I collected quite a few years ago, what with all the activities of Holy Week > and guests coming for the upcoming weekend. Write to me again in a couple of > weeks, and I'll dig around and see if I can come up with actual documents > that I can cite. > > Happy Hunting. > > Allan E. Green > > Karl Schwerin SnailMail: Dept. of Anthropology Univ. of New Mexico Albuquerque, NM 87131 e-mail: schwerin@unm.edu Cultural anthropology...is valuable because it is constantly rediscovering the normal. Edward Sapir (1949:151)

Hi everyone, Last night I checked my sources and found that I don't have what I thought I had - a complete line back from Mary Bray- but I did find an outline of the male line back about ten generations. Having read all the messages posted, it seems most probably Mary was John's mother, but not 100%, it would seem that researching her line would be of interest, starting with her father Sir John. Adrian B. Burke, Assistant to: Daniel B. Graves, Managing Director Elizabeth A. Chang, Vice President GIB - Media Group 130 Liberty Street, 28th Floor New York, N.Y. 10006 Phone: (212) 250-4195 Fax: (212) 669-6022 -- This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.

I have still not been able to find to much information on my John Whitney. Every census I have found with him on it has him born MA. On a piece of paper written by one of his children it says Deerfield, MA. He was born in 1784 and died 2/20/1871 in Coles County, IL. The family moved around a lot. He was married to Polly Gibbs from CT, a few of their children were born in Broome County, NY, they eventually went to Waukesha County, WI where Polly died, then on to Coles County, Illinois. Can anyone give some advice? Thank you in advance. John Whitney has been my brick wall for a couple of years. Janet Whitney Duffield

Dear WRG: That's what comes from checking ones mail at 4:45 AM. I answered before getting to Robert's excellent response. What he said. Happy Hunting. Allan

Dear WRG: Apropos Merry's question, I would suggest that anyone interested visit the WRG website (http://www.whitneygen.org) and read the two articles that may be found there that address this question. One was written back in the 1930's by Donald Lines Jacobus, one of the grand old men of American Genealogy, and one whose work is very highly respected. There is also another article by a current professional researcher from Salt Lake City (I think that's where he lives) named Paul Reed, who picks up Jacobus article and carries it further, probably based on some material that may not have been available earlier. He, too, demonstrates that it is highly unlikely that Thomas is the son of the particular Robert Whitney that would make him the grandson of Sir Robert and Sybil, but it is difficult to "prove" a negative. His case is based on Thomas's age and estimated birth year, and the customs and patterns of inheritance that shows that Thomas could not be the first or second son, and if I don't stop speaking from memory, I'll get it all muddled up. Go to the website and look them up, and I think that you will come to the same conclusion that I have, this link from Melville is flawed, and we need to find another line for Thomas' connection to the Hereford Whitneys. As to what Robert Ward thinks of this, he did publish a speculation several years ago that questioned the solidity of John--1's connection to Thomas and Mary Bray Whitney. However, there is enough to satisfy me (barring, of course, further information being found) in the connections to the Merchant Tailor's Company for John and his younger brother, Robert, whom he in turn took as an apprentice that fits with (and again I speak from memory, but it is 5:16 in the morning) some kind of relationship for Mary Bray's father, John Bray, and the same Merchant Tailor's Company. I'll let Robert speak for himself on all this. This is not a good week for me to dig back into my paper records for material I collected quite a few years ago, what with all the activities of Holy Week and guests coming for the upcoming weekend. Write to me again in a couple of weeks, and I'll dig around and see if I can come up with actual documents that I can cite. Happy Hunting. Allan E. Green

Dear Whitneys, I was browsing some of the unclaimed property listings sites, and the list of Whitneys is very, very long. I used a site called "Foundmoney.com" which provides full names and locations, but you then have to pay a (relatively small, about $20) fee for needed information. However, I think the National Unclaimed Property database (www.unclaimed-property.com) is free, and is supposed to have as much if not more information. The amounts seem to vary from very little to thousands of dollars, and a simple claim to the relevant state is all that's required. Happy hunting, all :) Merry

Dear WRG: At 05:20 PM 4/9/01 -0400, MerryJWhit@aol.com wrote: >Carolyn Whitney Branagan wrote: > >"This is a question for Robert Ward and Allan Green. I will be anxious >to see what they have to say on this topic, but I was not aware >there was a royal connection through Mary Bray. And it doesn't seem >to be all that clear to me that Thomas was the father of John. >Robert and Allan, do we have enough evidence to make that claim?" This is the first I have heard of an alleged royal ancestry through Mary BRAY. Do you have details and sources for this? For a discussion of the evidence, see the following web pages: <http://www.whitneygen.org/families/johnw/ancestry.html> <http://www.whitneygen.org/families/johnw/doubts.html> The case is not as strong as one would like, but it seems quite likely that John WHITNEY of Isleworth, co. Middlesex, and St. Mary Aldermary, London, was the same as John-1 WHITNEY of Watertown. >Is there not some way, though, to confirm or refute whether this Thomas, if >we do know he was the father of John-1, was also the grandson of the Sir >Robert Whitney (died England Aug. 5, 1567) who married Sybil Baskerville, and >great-grandson of the Robert Whitney (died May or June, 1541) who married >Margaret Wye? The refutation comes from the chronology. See these two articles: <http://www.whitneygen.org/archives/extracts/jacobus.html> <http://www.whitneygen.org/archives/extracts/reed.html> Reed says, "It is argued that, though Sir James Whitney died on 31 May 1587, aged forty-two, his younger brother, Robert (supposed father of Thomas Whitney of Westminster), could have been born about 1548-9 (given ten- to fifteen-month birth intervals). His alleged son, Thomas Whitney of Westminster, married Mary Bray on 12 May 1583. Assuming that both Robert and Thomas were about seventeen when they married, the connection still seemed chronologically possible, even if unlikely." Then he shows that Thomas must have been *at least* 21 at marriage, not 17, forcing his alleged father to have been *at most* 13 at marriage. This is impossible. Actually, the chronology is even worse than this, since it assumes that Thomas was the first son of Robert, born very soon after marriage, even though the existing pedigrees list him as the *third* son, and not necessarily the third child! It also assumes that the three eldest sons of Sir Robert were consecutive children, with no daughters coming between them, for which there is no evidence. Intervening daughters would stretch the chronology even more! The conclusion is that Thomas, 3rd son of Robert, 3rd son of Sir Robert, could not be the Thomas WHITNEY of Westminster who m. Mary BRAY, because he was too young. Unfortunately we do not know what happened to that Thomas, because we have not examined the right records, if they still exist. We do not even know where his father Robert lived. Additionally, we do not know the parentage of Thomas WHITNEY of Westminster, for the same reason, despite a fair (but not exhaustive) effort searching for it. Much information about various WHITNEY individuals in England has been gathered, but much of it pertains to people not definitely connected to either of the two main WHITNEY gentle families, one of Herefordshire, one of Cheshire. See, for instance, <http://www.whitneygen.org/archives/extracts/memoranda.html>, <http://www.whitneygen.org/archives/vitals/england/index.html>. None of it identifies any relatives of Thomas WHITNEY of Westminster. Clearly, the WHITNEY family was distributed over a large portion of England by the time of Thomas WHITNEY's birth. I'm sorry if this isn't very satisfying. Regards, Robert Robert L. Ward WHITNEY Research Group <http://www.whitneygen.org/home2.html>

I was doing a search on on Ancetry .com and came across this .Database: Saratoga County, New York, Cemetery Records, Volume I Combined Matches: 2 Cemetery Records of Saratoga County, New York Volume I Name: Sarah Ann Whitney Andrews Birth Date: 1839 Death Date: 1928 <A HREF="http://data.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=saranycemells&ti=0&gs=whitney&query=whitney&submit=search&databaseid=5540&title=saratoga+county%2c+new+york%2c+cemetery+records%2c+volume+i&databasename=saranycemells&searchengine=sse.dll&server=data&type=f&ct=2255">Click to view full context</A> Cemetery Records of Saratoga County, New York Volume I Name: Sarah Ann Whitney Andrews Birth Date: 1839 Death Date: 1927 <A HREF="http://data.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=saranycemells&ti=0&gs=whitney&query=whitney&submit=search&databaseid=5540&title=saratoga+county%2c+new+york%2c+cemetery+records%2c+volume+i&databasename=saranycemells&searchengine=sse.dll&server=data&type=f&ct=2256">Click to view full context</A> I veiw the context and it didnt show anything else. Must be the same person since the name and birth date are the same. I thought id pass this along Carol Trembley Clute

Carolyn Whitney Branagan wrote: "This is a question for Robert Ward and Allan Green.  I will  be anxious  to see what they have   to say  on this topic,  but I  was not aware  there was a   royal connection through Mary Bray.  And  it doesn't seem to be all that clear to me that Thomas  was the father of John. Robert and Allan,  do we have enough evidence to  make  that claim?"     My two cents observes the circumstantial evidence that John's and Elinor's oldest child, born 1619 (died young) was named "Mary" (Yes, I'm being facetious). I had asked a few weeks ago about the certainty, or not, of whether we knew that Thomas was the father of John, and I'm quite certain that Robert and Allan both responded in the affirmative. I've got it on disk somewhere (at least with the old hard copy files, I knew exactly where to look by just following the alphabet). Is there not some way, though, to confirm or refute whether this Thomas, if we do know he was the father of John-1, was also the grandson of the Sir Robert Whitney (died England Aug. 5, 1567) who married Sybil Baskerville, and great-grandson of the Robert Whitney (died May or June, 1541) who married Margaret Wye? Merry Whitney, MerryJWhit@aol.com

This is a question for Robert Ward and Allan Green. I will be anxious to see what they have to say on this topic, but I was not aware there was a royal connection through Mary Bray. And it doesn't seem to be all that clear to me that Thomas was the father of John. Robert and Allan, do we have enough evidence to make that claim? from Carolyn Whitney Branagan Adrian Burke wrote: > Hey everyone I was just wondering, it seems more or less clear that John's father was Thomas, so even if this Thomas was not directly descended from the Whitneys of Whitney, doesn't that give John and his descendants the noble line back through his mother Mary Bray? > > > > Adrian B. Burke, Assistant to: > Daniel B. Graves, Managing Director > Elizabeth A. Chang, Vice President > GIB - Media Group > 130 Liberty Street, 28th Floor > New York, N.Y. 10006 > Phone: (212) 250-4195 > Fax: (212) 669-6022 > > > -- > > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. > > >

Hey everyone I was just wondering, it seems more or less clear that John's father was Thomas, so even if this Thomas was not directly descended from the Whitneys of Whitney, doesn't that give John and his descendants the noble line back through his mother Mary Bray? Adrian B. Burke, Assistant to: Daniel B. Graves, Managing Director Elizabeth A. Chang, Vice President GIB - Media Group 130 Liberty Street, 28th Floor New York, N.Y. 10006 Phone: (212) 250-4195 Fax: (212) 669-6022 -- This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.

Hi folks! I'm back from a little hiatus. For those of you that might have joined since I've been gone and to update the rest. I am looking for William D. Whitney's ancestors. He was born in 1821 in Ohio. His parents are listed in all the census records as: father from Mass. and mother from Ohio. This is all I know about them. This has been my 26 year brick wall. William D. Whitney married Emily French (her first name is different in all records from Emily to Amealia) on 1 April 1841 in Athens County, Ohio. Emily or Amealia was born in August of 1823 in Ohio. So far I have found eight children born to this marriage: John Whitney, 1842 Ohio, Miriam Whitney, 1845 Ohio, Henry L. Whitney, April 1848 Ohio, Michael between 1849 and 1854, Charles between 1849 - 1854, David Case Whitney, 23 August 1855 Indiana, Sarah Anna Whitney, July 1859 in Athens County, Ohio and James Whitney 1861 Ohio. They had married in Athens county but no record of them living there. From census records they lived in Van Wert County, Ohio (near a Charles Whitney), Logan County, Ohio. From Ohio they moved into Illinois where I believe he died. Any and all suggestion and comments are gladly accepted. I always said I'd break this brick wall before I turned 40, well, I didn't make it, maybe before I hit 50? Thank you for your time, Laurie Ann Whitney Skillern Cabot, Arkansas

The surname of the first wife of Ebenezer LELAND (1658-1742) has not been found, so I cannot give a definitive answer. My records are show that Ebenezer LELAND (1658-1742) married 3 times: - 1st to Deborah (--?--) circa 1678, Middlesex County, Mass.. They had 5 children between 1679 and 1690. (Ancestral File records list her name as Deborah PRESCOTT, but I have found no records to prove that surname) Children: Deborah, Ebenezer, Timothy, James and Susannah. (Notice no son named Richard and no daughter named Martha.) - 2nd to Patience RICE circa 1694, Sherborn, Middlesex County, Mass., widow of (--?--) HOLBROOK, and dau. of Matthew RICE and Martha LAWSON. She was born in Sudbury, Mass. 5 Mar 1671 and died 1 Jun 1720 in Sherborn. They had 5 children born between 1695 and 1710: Patience, Martha, Isaac, Sybil and Amaziah. (The Martha in this family was probably named after Patience (Rice) Leland's sister, Martha Rice; as was the son Isaac prob. named after Patience's brother, Isaac Rice.) - 3rd to Mary WILLARD on 29 Aug 1721, widow of Isaac HUNT, and dau. of Henry WILLARD and Mary LAKIN. She was born in Groton, Mass. 3 Aug 1680. (also per Ancestral File) I do not know whether Mary had children by either husband. Ebenezer LELAND died intestate 30 Jun 1742 and the settlement of his estate began on 18 Oct 1742 and ended in 1753. An extract of that settlement appears on this web page: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~leland/hlpg15.html None of his wives survived him, it appears from the above, since only children and grandchildren are named in the administration. Deborah WHITNEY, dau. of Richard and Martha (COLDAM/COLDHAM) WHITNEY, b. 12 Oct 1658, would have been of the right age to marry the above Ebenezer LELAND, but my resources do not name her as his wife. The marriage is not recorded in Medfield, where Ebenezer was born. Deborah (--?--) LELAND, his first wife, probably died in Sherborn, where all of Ebenezer's children were born, but I do not own a copy of the Sherburn VRs. A more indepth study of Middlesex County records might yield more information to help with this puzzle. I wish I could help more! Jeanne (Whitney) Muse jwmuse@compuserve.com ------------------------------------------ Major Surnames I am researching: GOLDSMITH, HARDING, MUSE, REED, REGNIER, WHITNEY http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jwmuse/roots.htm ----------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <MzCortez@aol.com> To: <WHITNEY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 9:14 AM Subject: [WHITNEY-L] Deborah Whitney b. 1658 Watertown Dear Whitney Researchers, Would like to find information on DEBORAH WHITNEY, dau of RICHARD and MARTHA (COLDAM) WHITNEY. Most data banks do not tell what happened to her. One persistant LELAND researcher believes that she may have married EBENEZER LELAND. Any definitive information would be very appreciated. Phoebe in CA also Searching: NY: Orange Co. Carpenter/Coe, Wisner/Jayne, Jayne/Woodhull Onondaga Co. Carpenter/Wisner, Carpenter/Munro,Perry,Redman,Reed Ontario/Wayne Co. Melvin/Wisner Chautaqua Co. Melvin/Wisner/Risley and Melvin/Lockwood MI: Branch Co. Melvin, Wisner, Pitt, Lockwood MA: Leland, Warren, Fiske, Stearns, Upson, Learned, Hartwell, Wheeler, Brooks, Meriam and old pretty well researched names like that!

WRG: In 1992 an historical account of the settlement of Strong, Franklin Co., Maine was published by Brackley and Lisherness under the auspices of the Strong Historical Society. On page nine of that work is an account of what is purported to be the beginning of the modern Republican Party of the United States in Strong in August of 1854. It describes a General Convention of a number of political parties being formed, and the Republican Platform was concieved. Three secretaries are listed for that convention, and one of them was G.W. Whitney. Does anyone in the group know the identity of this Whitney? Ken Whitney Silver Spring, MD

Dear Whitney Researchers, Would like to find information on DEBORAH WHITNEY, dau of RICHARD and MARTHA (COLDAM) WHITNEY. Most data banks do not tell what happened to her. One persistant LELAND researcher believes that she may have married EBENEZER LELAND. Any definitive information would be very appreciated. Phoebe in CA also Searching: NY: Orange Co. Carpenter/Coe, Wisner/Jayne, Jayne/Woodhull Onondaga Co. Carpenter/Wisner, Carpenter/Munro,Perry,Redman,Reed Ontario/Wayne Co. Melvin/Wisner Chautaqua Co. Melvin/Wisner/Risley and Melvin/Lockwood MI: Branch Co. Melvin, Wisner, Pitt, Lockwood MA: Leland, Warren, Fiske, Stearns, Upson, Learned, Hartwell, Wheeler, Brooks, Meriam and old pretty well researched names like that!

" GENEALOGIST'S  POX " WARNING: Very contagious to adults. SYMPTOMS: Continual complaint as to need for names, dates, and places. Patient has a blank expression, sometimes deaf to spouse and children. Has no taste for work of any kind, except feverishly looking through records at libraries and courthouses.  Has compulsion to write letters. Swears at mailman when he doesn't leave mail. Frequents places such as cemeteries; ruins; and remote, desolate country areas. Makes secret night calls, hides phone bills from spouse, and mumbles to self.  Has a strange, faraway look in eyes.   NO KNOWN CURE. TREATMENT: Medication is useless. Disease is not fatal, but gets progressively worse. Patient should attend genealogy workshops, subscribe to genealogical magazines, and be given a quiet corner in the house where he or  she can be alone. REMARKS: The unusual nature of this disease is -- the sicker the patient gets, the more he or she enjoys it!   --Author Unknown _______ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Chris Branagan wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have never found any reference to John and Elinor being > particularly active in the church, beyond the statement they had to > make before boarding the Elizabeth and Ann that they (at least > John) were members of the Church of England. I have always > assumed they came seeking better economic opportunities. In this, > they were certainly successful! > from, Carolyn Whitney Branagan > > PS. Don't forget to check out the Whitney Clan My family.com site > to add your vote as to when in summer 2002 the WRG reunion > should take place. > > MerryJWhit@aol.com <mailto:MerryJWhit@aol.com> wrote: > >> Gary Wallace wrote >> >> "Dear cousins, >> Was watching Snoopys Charlie Brown Thanksgiving and the Mayflower the >> other day (actually fairly accurate) Got to wondering about John and Elinor >> who came in 1635 (?) were they Pilgrim Puritans -came for religious reasons >> or just regular colonists? Or do we know. . . " >> >> I don't know, of course, but prior to finding WRG, when I assumed my old >> "tree" was accurate with its references to Henry VIII and Queens Mary and >> Elizabeth I, I had sort of conjectured that political changes in England >> after 1609 might have made it seem like a good time to broaden the family >> horizons. >> >> But even if John and Elinor did not come from parents whose political >> connections might have begun to seem more a liability than an asset, general >> turmoil and uncertainty in England in the 1620's and 1630's probably helped >> magnify the attraction of crossing the pond. :) >> >> Merry >> >> >> >

Gary Wallace wrote "Dear cousins,     Was watching Snoopys Charlie Brown Thanksgiving and the Mayflower the other day (actually fairly accurate)  Got to wondering about John and Elinor who came in 1635 (?)  were they Pilgrim Puritans -came for religious reasons or just regular colonists? Or do we know. . . " I don't know, of course, but prior to finding WRG, when I assumed my old "tree" was accurate with its references to Henry VIII and Queens Mary and Elizabeth I, I had sort of conjectured that political changes in England after 1609 might have made it seem like a good time to broaden the family horizons. But even if John and Elinor did not come from parents whose political connections might have begun to seem more a liability than an asset, general turmoil and uncertainty in England in the 1620's and 1630's probably helped magnify the attraction of crossing the pond. :) Merry

Dear cousins, Was watching Snoopys Charlie Brown Thanksgiving and the Mayflower the other day (actually fairly accurate) Got to wondering about John and Elinor who came in 1635 (?) were they Pilgrim Puritans -came for religious reasons or just regular colonists? Or do we know. . . Gary Wallace

Here's a Whitney from the "Boardman Genealogy 1525 - 1895" by Charlotte Goldthwaite: #440 "John, b. May 15th, 1751 ; m. Rachel _____ ; said to have settled at Chenango with his brothers, but removed after 1812 to Rochester, N.Y., where he d." This is John 6 (Thomas 5 / William 4 / William 3 / Joshua 2 / John 1), whose mother was Elizabeth Boardman. He's #1408 in Pierce: http://www.whitneygen.org/archives/extracts/pierce/p111-115.htm Cutter and Pierce are silent as to his fate. Has anyone run across him in researching Rochester Whitneys? Thanks and cheers, Ron Kyser