Subject: Re: [WHITNEY-L] No Evidence of Elinor's Maiden Name Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:07:20 -0500 To: <[email protected]> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would call your attention to the article "A Civil Institution: Marriage in 17th-Century New England" in New England Ancestors, Spring 2005 (vol. 6, No. 2), New Eng. Historic Genealogical Society. The process began with parental consent or, if the couple were independent, the consent of a magistrate. Then the marriage intention (or bann) was published three times. There followed a ritual variously known as pre-contract, betrothal or espousal. This was similar to what we would regard as a wedding; however, before 1686, Massachusetts law recognized marriage primarily as a civil contract; therefore, only after the espousal ceremony and a waiting period (I don't see any indication of how long) the couple would register their marriage with the town government and finally be legally married (pp. 36-37). The author of the article, Lynn Betlock, says that in spite of the hurdles including court disputes during this process, "most New Englanders did actually take the final step and ! marry." Carol wrote: ...BTW, has anyone seen my Anne (or Sarah Anne) Whitney (b. abot 1740) who married Thomas Whitcomb in Littleton, MA in the early 1760s? She was from Stow, MA. Understand they married "by intention." Would really like to know her parents, etc. Carol ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.nexet.net

I won second prize in a chili cookoff once. Does that count? Never won anything else unless I ran unopposed. frances oxoxo --- Christopher Branagan <[email protected]> wrote: > What about me?? I'm currently serving in the > state legislature!! A > second termer. Maybe lowly state representatives > don't count! > > from, > Representative Carolyn Whitney Branagan (R) > Franklin-1 District, Vermont House of > Representatives > > PS. Greg: the National Council of State > Legislators (NCSL) is meeting > in Seattle next August. Do you have an official > function there? It > would be fun to meet you! My line is > John, John, John, John, > Samuel, Benjamin, John, Benjamin, John > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Nickels" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 1:28 AM > Subject: Re: [WHITNEY-L] Re: Gov. Robert Whitney > WATERMAN > > > > Wait just a minute! Whitney's can't win elections? > > > > I am a great-great grandson of Eliza Ann Whitney > (Nathan, Nathan, > > Jonathon, Jonathon, Jonathon, Benjamin, John) and > have won five > > elections, currently serving as Mayor of Seattle, > Washington. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: R R Kyser > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:30 PM > > Subject: [WHITNEY-L] Re: Gov. Robert Whitney > WATERMAN > > > > > > Nice work by Robert, but I could have saved him > the trouble. A more > > immediate clue that Gov. Waterman was not a > Whitney is that he ran for > > office-- and won. Whitneys do not have the best > record on the stump! > > > > However, the Governor can claim other notable > relatives. Gen. Benedict > > Arnold's mother was a Waterman, and the General > and the Governor are > > second cousins thrice removed. > > > > Cheers, > > Ron Kyser > > > > > > On Thursday, April 28, 2005, at 06:18 PM, Robert > L. Ward wrote: > > > > > Dear WRG, > > > > > > I have found that one of the early governors of > California was Robert > > > Whitney WATERMAN (1824-1891). I investigated > his ancestry to try to > > > find the source of his middle name. His > Ahnentafel looks like this: > > > > > > 1. Robert Whitney-8 WATERMAN (1824-1891) > > > 2. John Dean-7 WATERMAN (1785-1837) > > > 3. Mary Graves-6 WALDO (1787-1843), m. 1810 > > > 4. Gladding-6 WATERMAN (1757-1834) > > > 5. Charlotte DEAN (1764-1841), m. 1782 > > > 6. Calvin-5 WALDO (1759-1815) > > > 7. Judith-5 GRAVES (1764-1808), m. 1777 > > > 8. William-5 WATERMAN (1724-1793) > > > 9. Rebecca-4 GLADDING (1734- ) > > > 10. John DEAN (ca1725- ) > > > 11. Thankful-4 (PARSONS) ASHLEY (1723- ), m. > 1753 > > > 12. Shubael-4 WALDO (1707-1776) > > > 13. Abigail-5 ALLEN (1712-1799), m. 1730 > > > 14. Moses-4 GRAVES (1700-1785) > > > 15. Catherine ----- (ca1704- ), m. 1760 > > > 16. John-4 WATERMAN (1694-aft1740) > > > 17. Ann-4 HYDE (1697-1766), m. 1715 > > > 18. Nathaniel-3 GLADDING () > > > 19. (), m. > > > 20. ----- DEAN > > > 21. ----- ----- > > > 22. Noah-3 PARSONS (1692-1779) > > > 23. Mindwell-3 EDWARDS (1694-1775), m. 1712 > > > 24. Edward-3 WALDO (1684-1767) > > > 25. Thankful-3 DIMMOCK (1684-1757), m. 1706 > > > 26. Samuel-4 ALLEN (ca1690- ) > > > 27. Mary-3 ALDEN (ca1690- ), m. ca1700 > > > 28. Jonathan-3 GRAVES (1666-1737) > > > 29. Sarah-4 PARSONS (ca1679-1710), m. ca1698 > > > 30. ----- ----- > > > 31. ----- ----- > > > > > > This is enough to conclude that Gov. WATERMAN > had no direct WHITNEY > > > ancestors. > > > Then I realized that his maternal grandfather, > Calvin WALDO had married > > > secondly, > > > Clarissa (DWIGHT) WHITNEY, widow of Abel > WHITNEY of Northampton, MA. > > > It must be > > > from that connection that his middle name was > derived. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > Mr. Robert L. Ward > > > [email protected] > > > http://www.whitneygen.org/home.html > > > > > > >

Have been reading with interest the discussion regarding the mystery of "what was John Whitney's wife's name". It just occurred to me that possibly her middle name was Elinor/Ellen....or she could have been called that by the family in honor of someone near and dear. BTW, has anyone seen my Anne (or Sarah Anne) Whitney (b. abot 1740) who married Thomas Whitcomb in Littleton, MA in the early 1760s? She was from Stow, MA. Understand they married "by intention." Would really like to know her parents, etc. Carol

All, We all know that the immigrant John-1 WHITNEY married a first wife whose name is variously recorded as Elinor, Ellin, and Ellen. Their oldest child was baptized in 1619 at Isleworth, co. Middlesex, England, so one guesses that the marriage may have occurred about 1617. John was, of course, baptized in 1592 at St. Margaret's, Westminster, London. The age of Elinor is allegedly given in her death record in the Watertown First Church records as aged 60 in 1659 (see Pierce, pp. 19-20), so her birth would be about 1599. There are 17 entries in the LDS International Genealogical Index, and 19 in the LDS Pedigree Resource File, which say that Elinor's maiden name was BRAY, and that she had been born or baptized at St. Margaret's, Westminster. As part of the Mormon (LDS) International Genealogical Index, there is something called their Extraction Program. They are extracting from microfilms of parish registers all the christenings and marriages. St. Margaret's Westminster is one of those they have done. The christenings 1539-1675 are in batch number P001601, and the marriages 1538-1681 in M001601. Now I trust the LDS extractors quite a lot. Each entry is read by two workers, both carefully trained in reading these old records, the results independently recorded, and then compared. If they agree, the item is entered in the IGI. If they disagree, a committee of experts review the entry and come to a decision, and then their decision is entered in the IGI. Frankly, I can't imagine any way that a more accurate extraction could be made. The only shortcoming is that only the names, dates, and relationships are transcribed, and no extra information which might appear in the original. Notice that burials have not been extracted. There are 21 christenings and one birth: Ann BRAY, chr. 17 Feb 1539 Robert BRAY, chr. 26 Feb 1540 Margaret BRAY, chr. 10 Apr 1542 Elsabeth BRAY, chr. 8 Nov 1544 John BRAY, chr. 4 Aug 1548 Henry BRAY, chr. 15 Feb 1551 Nycholas BRAY, chr. -- Mar 1552 Mary BRAYE, chr. -- Jan 1554 John BRAY, chr. -- Dec 1554 William BRAY, chr. 30 Dec 1554 Helen BRAY, chr. 30 Jun 1555 Helen BRAY, chr. 5 Aug 1555 Margaret BRAY, chr. -- Feb 1557 Lawrens BREY, chr. 11 Oct 1558 Margery BREY, chr. -- Oct 1560 Lydda BREY, chr. -- Aug 1561 Thomas BREY, chr. 29 Nov 1562 Mary BRAYE, dau. of John, chr. -- Dec 1564 Henry BRAYE, son of John, chr. 6 Oct 1566 Henry BRAYE, son of John, chr. -- Feb 1568 Alys BRAYE, dau. of William, chr. 5 Jun 1569 John BRAY, son of Nicholas and Sarah, b. 26 Mar 1654 The early christenings don't give the parents' names. There were 13 marriages: Margaret BRAY, m. William BYCE, 20 Jan 1543 Symon BRAY, m. Elsabeth FARRER, 31 Aug 1546 John BRAY, m. Margaret HASLONDE, 13 Aug 1553 Roger BRAY, m. Jone CURTESSE, 29 May 1554 Thomas BRAIE, m. Jane HENSON, 30 Jun 1572 Robert BRAY, m. Christian HOLT, 30 Nov 1581 Mary BRAY, m. Thomas WHITENEY, 12 May 1583 Thomas BRAY, m. Elizabeth TEGMODOR, 11 Nov 1583 Henry BRAIE, m. Jone CROOCH, 7 Sep 1584 John BRAYE, m. Alice PARKER, 27 May 1588 Elizabeth BRAY, m. Howell GRIFFYN, 24 Apr 1598 Elizabeth BRAY, m. John HIBBOLS, 8 Jul 1643 Robert BRAY, m. Mary COOPER, 13 May 1644 Among these records we find the marriage of John BRAY and Margaret HASLONDE, the christenings of their children, and the marriage of their daughter Mary BRAY to Thomas WHITENEY (i.e., WHITNEY). We do have another reference on this BRAY family. See http://www.whitneygen.org/archives/extracts/kempton.html#551 There we see that the authors have seen and extracted the burials of the wife and other children of John and Margaret (HASLONDE) BRAY. Note that there is no Ellen/Ellin/Elinor/Eleanor BRAY recorded in these records in the appropriate time frame, so it is quite certain that there is no such person christened at St. Margaret's between 1556 and 1675. If one believes that Elinor (-----) WHITNEY, wife of John-1, was baptized at St. Margaret's, under some unknown maiden name, the extracted records can be searched for that. Here is a list of all 85 Elinor/Eleanor/Ellen/Ellin/Helen/etc. girls christened there from 1590 to 1609: Ellinor ADAMS, chr. 14 Jan 1590 Ellenor JONES, chr. -- Jun 1590 Ellen SEAWELL, chr. 13 Sep 1590 Ellen HOLYMAN, chr. -- Oct 1590 Ellin AUSTINE, chr. -- Dec 1590 Eleanor HARRISON, chr. -- May 1592 Ellen EVANS, chr. 25 May 1592 Ellen YORKE, chr. 16 Aug 1592 Ellen EGLESTONE, chr. 29 Dec 1592 Eleanor WYLD, chr. 24 Feb 1593 Eleanor BROWN, chr. 22 Aug 1593 Ellen DAVIES, chr. Oct 1593 Ellen SEWELL, chr. 11 Dec 1593 Eleanor AUSTEN, chr. 14 Apr 1594 Ellen GARRETT, chr. -- Sep 1594 Ellen SWALLOWE, chr. -- Nov 1594 Ellen BOND, chr. -- Dec 1594 Ellen EDMILL, chr. -- Nov 1595 Eleanor BIGGES, chr. 26 Nov 1595 Ellen EDWARDS, chr. -- Dec 1595 Ellen MARBEWRY, chr. 1 Sep 1596 Eleanor CHAMBERS, chr. -- Oct 1596 Ellen DAVIS, chr. -- Dec 1596 Ellen DAVIS, chr. 02 Apr 1597 Ellen WILLIAMS, chr. 9 Jan 1598 Ellen WILLIAMS, chr. 18 Jan 1598 Ellen COLLINS, chr. 17 Feb 1599 Eleanor GREEN, chr. -- Apr 1599 Eleanor OSBORNE, chr. 17 Oct 1599 Ellen EATON, chr. -- Nov 1599 Ellen NEWSON, chr. 3 Dec 1599 Ellen WATERTON, chr. -- Apr 1600 Ellen PAYNTER, chr. -- Apr 1600 Ellen DARLOW, chr. 22 May 1600 Ellen MORRIS, chr. -- Jun 1600 Ellen DANNE, chr. -- Aug 1600 Eleanor FLING, chr. -- Aug 1600 Eleanor GODHURT, chr. -- Oct 1600 Ellen FLOOD, chr. 17 Nov 1600 Eleanor WRIGHT, chr. 20 Jan 1601 Ellen GRAY, chr. -- Jun 1601 Ellen JOHNSON, chr. -- Aug 1601 Eleanor COTTON, chr. 19 Aug 1601 Elline PERWICK, chr. -- Oct 1601 Ellen SEVERY, chr. -- Nov 1601 Ellen SALTER, chr. 8 Jun 1602 Ellen BRYDGES, chr. -- Oct 1602 Eleanor PALMER, chr. 13 Dec 1602 Ellen RATLYFFE, chr. 29 Jan 1603 Eleanor FOSTER, chr. -- Mar 1603 Ellen HARRIS, chr. 17 Apr 1603 Ellen EWER, chr. 17 May 1603 Ellen GLORYE, chr. -- Jun 1603 Ellen SMALL, chr. 24 Aug 1603 Ellen SMYTH, chr. -- Sep 1603 Ellen JUDSON, chr. 26 Dec 1603 Ellen ASHBROOKE, chr. -- Jan 1605 Ellen NELSON, chr. -- Mar 1605 Ellen BETTERTON, chr. -- Mar 1605 Eleanor WALLIN, chr. 26 Apr 1605 Ellen LEE, chr. -- May 1605 Eleanor STRAHAN, chr. 4 Aug 1605 Ellen ROBERTS, chr. 28 Aug 1605 Ellen DOBSON, chr. -- Jun 1606 Ellen FRANCKLYN, chr. 4 Jun 1606 Eleanor ROWE, chr. -- Aug 1606 Eleanor DEANE, chr. 2 Sep 1606 Ellen CUTLER, chr. -- Nov 1606 Ellen GARDNER, chr. 6 Feb 1607 Ellen LAWRENCE, chr. 11 Feb 1607 Ellen CLEMENTE, chr. 21 Mar 1607 Ellen AUDRELL, chr. -- Jun 1607 Ellen MOORE, chr. 5 Aug 1607 Eleanor WHITT, chr. 6 Sep 1607 Ellen WELSBORNE, chr. Oct 1607 Eleanor NICKOLLS, chr. -- Nov 1607 Ellen RIGNELL, chr. 21 Dec 1607 Ellen JONES, chr. -- Jan 1608 Ellen JONES, chr. -- Nov 1608 Ellen COOPER, chr. -- Mar 1609 Ellen GILES, chr. -- May 1609 Ellen MORRIS, chr. -- Jun 1609 Ellen ARNOLLE, chr. -- Sep 1609 Eleanor ORRELL, chr. -- Nov 1609 Ellen BOOEN, chr. 16 Dec 1609 You can see that there are quite a few possibilities! It would be a difficult investigation to try either to eliminate or to establish one of them as John-1 WHITNEY's wife. Nevertheless, this is a possible avenue of research which, I believe, has never been pursued. Of course, it is also possible that Elinor was from Isleworth. That parish register has not been extracted, but the original has been filmed. That film number is #585395. One could do a similar search in that register for girls named Elinor/etc. christened there in the appropriate time frame, and try to eliminate or establish one of them as John-1 WHITNEY's wife. That would be made more difficult by the absence of early Middlesex wills. So far, I have seen no credible evidence giving any maiden name to Elinor, wife of John-1 WHITNEY of Watertown. Regards, Robert Mr. Robert L. Ward [email protected] http://www.whitneygen.org/home.html

This is fascinating! Kudos to both of you, Mayor Nickels and Rep Branagan. This also works well with a question I've been pondering. I have been reading a book by Alexandra Robbins called "Secrets of the Tomb: Skull and Bones, the Ivy League, and the Hidden Paths of Power" in which she states that one of the founding Yale families was Whitney. Which Whitney was involved in the early days of Yale? Kess (Thomas, John, Benjamin, Nathaniel, Nathan, Nathan, Nathan, Elmira Whitney, Ephraim Reynolds, etc (Reynolds, Reynolds, Reynolds, Graff) On 4/29/05, Christopher Branagan <[email protected]> wrote: > What about me?? I'm currently serving in the state legislature!! A > second termer. Maybe lowly state representatives don't count! > > from, > Representative Carolyn Whitney Branagan (R) > Franklin-1 District, Vermont House of Representatives > > PS. Greg: the National Council of State Legislators (NCSL) is meeting > in Seattle next August. Do you have an official function there? It > would be fun to meet you! My line is John, John, John, John, > Samuel, Benjamin, John, Benjamin, John > > ----- Original Message ----- > Wrom: IJJPHSCRTNHGSWZIDREXCAXZOWCONEUQZAAFXI > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 1:28 AM > Subject: Re: [WHITNEY-L] Re: Gov. Robert Whitney WATERMAN > > > Wait just a minute! Whitney's can't win elections? > > > > I am a great-great grandson of Eliza Ann Whitney (Nathan, Nathan, > > Jonathon, Jonathon, Jonathon, Benjamin, John) and have won five > > elections, currently serving as Mayor of Seattle, Washington.

What about me?? I'm currently serving in the state legislature!! A second termer. Maybe lowly state representatives don't count! from, Representative Carolyn Whitney Branagan (R) Franklin-1 District, Vermont House of Representatives PS. Greg: the National Council of State Legislators (NCSL) is meeting in Seattle next August. Do you have an official function there? It would be fun to meet you! My line is John, John, John, John, Samuel, Benjamin, John, Benjamin, John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Nickels" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 1:28 AM Subject: Re: [WHITNEY-L] Re: Gov. Robert Whitney WATERMAN > Wait just a minute! Whitney's can't win elections? > > I am a great-great grandson of Eliza Ann Whitney (Nathan, Nathan, > Jonathon, Jonathon, Jonathon, Benjamin, John) and have won five > elections, currently serving as Mayor of Seattle, Washington. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: R R Kyser > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:30 PM > Subject: [WHITNEY-L] Re: Gov. Robert Whitney WATERMAN > > > Nice work by Robert, but I could have saved him the trouble. A more > immediate clue that Gov. Waterman was not a Whitney is that he ran for > office-- and won. Whitneys do not have the best record on the stump! > > However, the Governor can claim other notable relatives. Gen. Benedict > Arnold's mother was a Waterman, and the General and the Governor are > second cousins thrice removed. > > Cheers, > Ron Kyser > > > On Thursday, April 28, 2005, at 06:18 PM, Robert L. Ward wrote: > > > Dear WRG, > > > > I have found that one of the early governors of California was Robert > > Whitney WATERMAN (1824-1891). I investigated his ancestry to try to > > find the source of his middle name. His Ahnentafel looks like this: > > > > 1. Robert Whitney-8 WATERMAN (1824-1891) > > 2. John Dean-7 WATERMAN (1785-1837) > > 3. Mary Graves-6 WALDO (1787-1843), m. 1810 > > 4. Gladding-6 WATERMAN (1757-1834) > > 5. Charlotte DEAN (1764-1841), m. 1782 > > 6. Calvin-5 WALDO (1759-1815) > > 7. Judith-5 GRAVES (1764-1808), m. 1777 > > 8. William-5 WATERMAN (1724-1793) > > 9. Rebecca-4 GLADDING (1734- ) > > 10. John DEAN (ca1725- ) > > 11. Thankful-4 (PARSONS) ASHLEY (1723- ), m. 1753 > > 12. Shubael-4 WALDO (1707-1776) > > 13. Abigail-5 ALLEN (1712-1799), m. 1730 > > 14. Moses-4 GRAVES (1700-1785) > > 15. Catherine ----- (ca1704- ), m. 1760 > > 16. John-4 WATERMAN (1694-aft1740) > > 17. Ann-4 HYDE (1697-1766), m. 1715 > > 18. Nathaniel-3 GLADDING () > > 19. (), m. > > 20. ----- DEAN > > 21. ----- ----- > > 22. Noah-3 PARSONS (1692-1779) > > 23. Mindwell-3 EDWARDS (1694-1775), m. 1712 > > 24. Edward-3 WALDO (1684-1767) > > 25. Thankful-3 DIMMOCK (1684-1757), m. 1706 > > 26. Samuel-4 ALLEN (ca1690- ) > > 27. Mary-3 ALDEN (ca1690- ), m. ca1700 > > 28. Jonathan-3 GRAVES (1666-1737) > > 29. Sarah-4 PARSONS (ca1679-1710), m. ca1698 > > 30. ----- ----- > > 31. ----- ----- > > > > This is enough to conclude that Gov. WATERMAN had no direct WHITNEY > > ancestors. > > Then I realized that his maternal grandfather, Calvin WALDO had married > > secondly, > > Clarissa (DWIGHT) WHITNEY, widow of Abel WHITNEY of Northampton, MA. > > It must be > > from that connection that his middle name was derived. > > > > Regards, > > > > Robert > > > > Mr. Robert L. Ward > > [email protected] > > http://www.whitneygen.org/home.html > >

Wait just a minute! Whitney's can't win elections? I am a great-great grandson of Eliza Ann Whitney (Nathan, Nathan, Jonathon, Jonathon, Jonathon, Benjamin, John) and have won five elections, currently serving as Mayor of Seattle, Washington. ----- Original Message ----- From: R R Kyser To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:30 PM Subject: [WHITNEY-L] Re: Gov. Robert Whitney WATERMAN Nice work by Robert, but I could have saved him the trouble. A more immediate clue that Gov. Waterman was not a Whitney is that he ran for office-- and won. Whitneys do not have the best record on the stump! However, the Governor can claim other notable relatives. Gen. Benedict Arnold's mother was a Waterman, and the General and the Governor are second cousins thrice removed. Cheers, Ron Kyser On Thursday, April 28, 2005, at 06:18 PM, Robert L. Ward wrote: > Dear WRG, > > I have found that one of the early governors of California was Robert > Whitney WATERMAN (1824-1891). I investigated his ancestry to try to > find the source of his middle name. His Ahnentafel looks like this: > > 1. Robert Whitney-8 WATERMAN (1824-1891) > 2. John Dean-7 WATERMAN (1785-1837) > 3. Mary Graves-6 WALDO (1787-1843), m. 1810 > 4. Gladding-6 WATERMAN (1757-1834) > 5. Charlotte DEAN (1764-1841), m. 1782 > 6. Calvin-5 WALDO (1759-1815) > 7. Judith-5 GRAVES (1764-1808), m. 1777 > 8. William-5 WATERMAN (1724-1793) > 9. Rebecca-4 GLADDING (1734- ) > 10. John DEAN (ca1725- ) > 11. Thankful-4 (PARSONS) ASHLEY (1723- ), m. 1753 > 12. Shubael-4 WALDO (1707-1776) > 13. Abigail-5 ALLEN (1712-1799), m. 1730 > 14. Moses-4 GRAVES (1700-1785) > 15. Catherine ----- (ca1704- ), m. 1760 > 16. John-4 WATERMAN (1694-aft1740) > 17. Ann-4 HYDE (1697-1766), m. 1715 > 18. Nathaniel-3 GLADDING () > 19. (), m. > 20. ----- DEAN > 21. ----- ----- > 22. Noah-3 PARSONS (1692-1779) > 23. Mindwell-3 EDWARDS (1694-1775), m. 1712 > 24. Edward-3 WALDO (1684-1767) > 25. Thankful-3 DIMMOCK (1684-1757), m. 1706 > 26. Samuel-4 ALLEN (ca1690- ) > 27. Mary-3 ALDEN (ca1690- ), m. ca1700 > 28. Jonathan-3 GRAVES (1666-1737) > 29. Sarah-4 PARSONS (ca1679-1710), m. ca1698 > 30. ----- ----- > 31. ----- ----- > > This is enough to conclude that Gov. WATERMAN had no direct WHITNEY > ancestors. > Then I realized that his maternal grandfather, Calvin WALDO had married > secondly, > Clarissa (DWIGHT) WHITNEY, widow of Abel WHITNEY of Northampton, MA. > It must be > from that connection that his middle name was derived. > > Regards, > > Robert > > Mr. Robert L. Ward > [email protected] > http://www.whitneygen.org/home.html

Nice work by Robert, but I could have saved him the trouble. A more immediate clue that Gov. Waterman was not a Whitney is that he ran for office-- and won. Whitneys do not have the best record on the stump! However, the Governor can claim other notable relatives. Gen. Benedict Arnold's mother was a Waterman, and the General and the Governor are second cousins thrice removed. Cheers, Ron Kyser On Thursday, April 28, 2005, at 06:18 PM, Robert L. Ward wrote: > Dear WRG, > > I have found that one of the early governors of California was Robert > Whitney WATERMAN (1824-1891). I investigated his ancestry to try to > find the source of his middle name. His Ahnentafel looks like this: > > 1. Robert Whitney-8 WATERMAN (1824-1891) > 2. John Dean-7 WATERMAN (1785-1837) > 3. Mary Graves-6 WALDO (1787-1843), m. 1810 > 4. Gladding-6 WATERMAN (1757-1834) > 5. Charlotte DEAN (1764-1841), m. 1782 > 6. Calvin-5 WALDO (1759-1815) > 7. Judith-5 GRAVES (1764-1808), m. 1777 > 8. William-5 WATERMAN (1724-1793) > 9. Rebecca-4 GLADDING (1734- ) > 10. John DEAN (ca1725- ) > 11. Thankful-4 (PARSONS) ASHLEY (1723- ), m. 1753 > 12. Shubael-4 WALDO (1707-1776) > 13. Abigail-5 ALLEN (1712-1799), m. 1730 > 14. Moses-4 GRAVES (1700-1785) > 15. Catherine ----- (ca1704- ), m. 1760 > 16. John-4 WATERMAN (1694-aft1740) > 17. Ann-4 HYDE (1697-1766), m. 1715 > 18. Nathaniel-3 GLADDING () > 19. (), m. > 20. ----- DEAN > 21. ----- ----- > 22. Noah-3 PARSONS (1692-1779) > 23. Mindwell-3 EDWARDS (1694-1775), m. 1712 > 24. Edward-3 WALDO (1684-1767) > 25. Thankful-3 DIMMOCK (1684-1757), m. 1706 > 26. Samuel-4 ALLEN (ca1690- ) > 27. Mary-3 ALDEN (ca1690- ), m. ca1700 > 28. Jonathan-3 GRAVES (1666-1737) > 29. Sarah-4 PARSONS (ca1679-1710), m. ca1698 > 30. ----- ----- > 31. ----- ----- > > This is enough to conclude that Gov. WATERMAN had no direct WHITNEY > ancestors. > Then I realized that his maternal grandfather, Calvin WALDO had married > secondly, > Clarissa (DWIGHT) WHITNEY, widow of Abel WHITNEY of Northampton, MA. > It must be > from that connection that his middle name was derived. > > Regards, > > Robert > > Mr. Robert L. Ward > [email protected] > http://www.whitneygen.org/home.html

Dear WRG, I have found that one of the early governors of California was Robert Whitney WATERMAN (1824-1891). I investigated his ancestry to try to find the source of his middle name. His Ahnentafel looks like this: 1. Robert Whitney-8 WATERMAN (1824-1891) 2. John Dean-7 WATERMAN (1785-1837) 3. Mary Graves-6 WALDO (1787-1843), m. 1810 4. Gladding-6 WATERMAN (1757-1834) 5. Charlotte DEAN (1764-1841), m. 1782 6. Calvin-5 WALDO (1759-1815) 7. Judith-5 GRAVES (1764-1808), m. 1777 8. William-5 WATERMAN (1724-1793) 9. Rebecca-4 GLADDING (1734- ) 10. John DEAN (ca1725- ) 11. Thankful-4 (PARSONS) ASHLEY (1723- ), m. 1753 12. Shubael-4 WALDO (1707-1776) 13. Abigail-5 ALLEN (1712-1799), m. 1730 14. Moses-4 GRAVES (1700-1785) 15. Catherine ----- (ca1704- ), m. 1760 16. John-4 WATERMAN (1694-aft1740) 17. Ann-4 HYDE (1697-1766), m. 1715 18. Nathaniel-3 GLADDING () 19. (), m. 20. ----- DEAN 21. ----- ----- 22. Noah-3 PARSONS (1692-1779) 23. Mindwell-3 EDWARDS (1694-1775), m. 1712 24. Edward-3 WALDO (1684-1767) 25. Thankful-3 DIMMOCK (1684-1757), m. 1706 26. Samuel-4 ALLEN (ca1690- ) 27. Mary-3 ALDEN (ca1690- ), m. ca1700 28. Jonathan-3 GRAVES (1666-1737) 29. Sarah-4 PARSONS (ca1679-1710), m. ca1698 30. ----- ----- 31. ----- ----- This is enough to conclude that Gov. WATERMAN had no direct WHITNEY ancestors. Then I realized that his maternal grandfather, Calvin WALDO had married secondly, Clarissa (DWIGHT) WHITNEY, widow of Abel WHITNEY of Northampton, MA. It must be from that connection that his middle name was derived. Regards, Robert Mr. Robert L. Ward [email protected] http://www.whitneygen.org/home.html

Dear Bill: Somewhere some wires got crossed. Mary Bray is our John Whitney's mother. She married Thomas Whitney in St. Margaret's Westminster on 12 May 1583, according to the Parish Registrar for that church. I saw the originals in the library of Westminster Abbey in 1982. She and Thomas had at least nine and possibly ten children beginning with Margaret in 1584 and ending with Robert in 1605 and maybe Frances in 1615. However, I tend to think that this last female child was the daughter of Thomas Whitney (Jr.), the second child of the above couple who was born in 1587. Someone has supposedly discovered an Elinor Bray, also in St. Margaret's Westminster records, born in 1597. I cannot confirm or deny this "fact" - since I didn't copy the Bray entries while I had a chance. The reason I spoke of finding a marriage record in London (or environs) was that IF this Elinor was a Bray, then one could reasonably infer that a marriage would have been somewhere in London, if not in the records of St. Margaret's. I did search every marriage record I could find at the library of the British Society of Genealogists in London over the time of four visits to England that included at least a week working in that facility each time. I never found a marriage for a John Whitney to any Elinor, under any spelling varient that might have occurred. I hope this clarifies the matter for you. There is a lot more information available at the Whitney Research Group website at: http://www.whitneygen.org/ Allan E. Green

Thank you Allan, for all the work you have done on this. It is good to have the refresher on Elinor Bray versus Elinor Whitney debate. Most of all, you've reminded us that it is the facts we seek. Evidence is what all researchers need. thanks from Carolyn Whitney Branagan ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 2:20 AM Subject: [WHITNEY-L] Re: Marriage between John Whitney and Elinor Bray? > Dear Mr/Ms Fowler: > > The principal reason for not accepting a marriage between John Whitney and > Elinor Bray is that I have never been able to find any record of a > marriage of a > John Whitney to Elinor Anybody. It doesn't, to the best of my knowledge, > appear in the records of St. Margaret's Westminster -- I copied all the > Whitney > records for that place (from mid-1500's to after 1650) from the originals > in > the Westminster Abbey library. I have also searched Boyd's Marriage Index > for > London and all other parts of England for the > period from 1615 through 1625. I believe the marriage to have taken place > about 1618, as the first child, Mary, was born (seemingly) in Isleworth 23 > May > 1619, as were the next two, John, christened 14 Sep 1621, and Richard, > christened 6 Jan 1623/24. > > At the time I was working at the Abbey I did not try to follow the Bray > family -- I wish I had. I would very much like to hear of the birth record > for > this Elinor Bray. There certainly would be a good possibility if such a > person > were born/christened in the late 1590's. Is there someplace where the St. > Margaret's register can be seen on-line, or do you know of someone in > London who > could investigate. The complete parish register transcriptions are > certainly > in the library of the British Society of Genealogists. I have spent many, > many > hours there, and would think that if there was a marriage of a John > Whitney > to an Elinor Bray, I'd have found it when I searched all the available > London > marriage records for any John Whitney. > > At the present time, that's the best answer I can furnish to you. I would > be > very much delighted if you or any other researcher can find the answer to > this puzzling question. > > Happy Hunting! > > Allan E. Green > >

Dear Mr/Ms Fowler: The principal reason for not accepting a marriage between John Whitney and Elinor Bray is that I have never been able to find any record of a marriage of a John Whitney to Elinor Anybody.   It doesn't, to the best of my knowledge, appear in the records of St. Margaret's Westminster -- I copied all the Whitney records for that place (from mid-1500's to after 1650) from the originals in the Westminster Abbey library.   I have also searched Boyd's Marriage Index for London and all other parts of England for the period from 1615 through 1625.   I believe the marriage to have taken place about 1618, as the first child, Mary, was born (seemingly) in Isleworth 23 May 1619, as were the next two, John, christened 14 Sep 1621, and Richard, christened 6 Jan 1623/24. At the time I was working at the Abbey I did not try to follow the Bray family -- I wish I had.  I would very much like to hear of the birth record for this Elinor Bray.  There certainly would be a good possibility if such a person were born/christened in the late 1590's.  Is there someplace where the St. Margaret's register can be seen on-line, or do you know of someone in London who could investigate.  The complete parish register transcriptions are certainly in the library of the British Society of Genealogists.  I have spent many, many hours there, and would think that if there was a marriage of a John Whitney to an Elinor Bray, I'd have found it when I searched all the available London marriage records for any John Whitney. At the present time, that's the best answer I can furnish to you.  I would be very much delighted if you or any other researcher can find the answer to this puzzling question. Happy Hunting! Allan E. Green

Could you briefly (or at length if you prefer?) tell what's wrong with the theory that Elinor ___ was Elinor Bray born at St-Margarets, Westminster (London), England 1597? ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.nexet.net

Dear Helen: I read your response about Joshua Whitney of Groton, and have one correction to offer. John Whitney, the immigrant ancestor who came to Watertown in 1635 had a wife named Elinor _______, whose surname remains unknown despite the best efforts of dozens of researchers over the years. I, myself, spent several weeks in the library of the British Society of Genealogists trying to find some clue as to her surname and a time and place of her marriage to John Whitney. I would suggest that anyone wishing to find further information about this family and the other descendants of John and Elinor visit the Whitney Research Group website at: http://www.whitneygen.org and use the Search engine to look for individuals or the existing databases for the descendants of John and Elinor. Happy Hunting! Allan E. Green

All, At 08:07 AM 4/17/05, Janet wrote: >I recently asked about Asa Whitney buried in the Doty Cemetery in Silver >Creek, NY. Thank you so much for the guidance. There is also a Lucinda, >wife of Ira buried in the same cemetery. Does anyone know who this Ira >is? I believe he may be the same Ira that is on the 1840 census for >Hanover, Chautauqua Co., NY. Asa is also on this census, along with >Jarvis Christy. I am looking for the connection of these families. I >believe my John Whitney has a connection to them somehow and this may be >the breakthrough. This Jarvis Christy is probably the husband of John >Whitney's oldest daughter Melinda. There was an Ira and Lucinda WHITNEY who had a daughter Ellen Lucinda born 2 Aug 1840 in Plymouth, Windsor Co., VT. They probably can't be the same couple, since Ira WHITNEY is listed in that town in the 1840 census, and your Ira is listed in the 1840 census of Hanover, Chautauqua Co., NY. Furthermore, in the Whitney Whistler it says that Ira WHITNEY of Plymouth was son of Granville and Jane (WILDER) WHITNEY, married on 3 Apr 1839 Lucinda HUDSON, and four children are given. That precludes Lucinda (HUDSON) WHITNEY from being the one buried in 1842 in the Doty Cemetery, Silver Creek, Chautauqua Co., NY. On the other hand, Pierce says that Ira WHITNEY who married Lucinda HUDSON was son of Daniel and Content (STILES) WHITNEY, of Ludlow, VT. He is #3045 on page 211: <http://www.whitneygen.org/archives/extracts/pierce/p211-215.htm#P1377>. There was an Ira WHITNEY, b. 13 Oct 1810, Whitney's Point, NY, who is a candidate. His lineage is Ira-8 WHITNEY [John-7, Joshua-6, Thomas-5, William-4, William-3, Joshua-2, John-1]. He is #5828 on page 386 of Pierce: <http://www.whitneygen.org/archives/extracts/pierce/p386-390.htm#P3092>. There is also an Ira WHITNEY, b. 1815, NY, listed in the 1880 Census of Carpinteria, Santa Barbara Co., CA, who is a candidate. I don't know the names of his parents. I am unable to identify the ancestry of your Ira at this time. Regards, Robert Mr. Robert L. Ward [email protected] http://www.whitneygen.org/home.html

I recently asked about Asa Whitney buried in the Doty Cemetery in Silver Creek, NY. Thank you so much for the guidance. There is also a Lucinda, wife of Ira buried in the same cemetery. Does anyone know who this Ira is? I believe he may be the same Ira that is on the 1840 census for Hanover, Chautauqua Co., NY. Asa is also on this census, along with Jarvis Christy. I am looking for the connection of these families. I believe my John Whitney has a connection to them somehow and this may be the breakthrough. This Jarvis Christy is probably the husband of John Whitney's oldest daughter Melinda. Janet Whitney Duffield --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page

All, At 02:54 PM 4/16/05, [email protected] wrote: >The Asa Whitney of this Digest may be #1494 in Pierce, but the descent is >incorrect! This Asa's line, as Robert Ward noted, is John-1, Joshua-2, >WILLIAM-3, >Joshua-4, etc. and NOT John-1, Joshua-2, DAVID-3, Joshua-4, Joshua-5 etc. >The Joshuas who came down from DAVID-3, never named children Asa. >#1495, following Asa, also is incorrect in descent, and is from WILLIAM-3, >not David-3. >We can go on down the list of those Pierce shows with David in the third >position, and find that most of them belong to WILLIAM-3. Nancy makes a good point. I have now inserted links on all the pages in our transcription of Pierce where the lineage is wrong (and of which I am aware), and they lead to the error file, where it explains the errors. I hope this makes everything clearer. Regards, Robert Mr. Robert L. Ward [email protected] http://www.whitneygen.org/home.html

The Asa Whitney of this Digest may be #1494 in Pierce, but the descent is incorrect! This Asa's line, as Robert Ward noted, is John-1, Joshua-2, WILLIAM-3, Joshua-4, etc. and NOT John-1, Joshua-2, DAVID-3, Joshua-4, Joshua-5 etc. The Joshuas who came down from DAVID-3, never named children Asa. #1495, following Asa, also is incorrect in descent, and is from WILLIAM-3, not David-3. We can go on down the list of those Pierce shows with David in the third position, and find that most of them belong to WILLIAM-3. Nancy Horn

Hi All I have belonger to this group for many years and now I need some help. Our basement flooded this past week and I lost all 4 copies of my Whitney Research work. I know it was foolish to have all 4 copies in same place but our basement had never flooded before (we live on the lake) but this year the lake was at its extreme and flooded us. The files were all in notebooks and on the second shelf of my bookcase in my work area - but the water went to 6 inches above the shelf.RUINED----- The question is that I went back into the Family site to copy out the pages I did before - and they are not there!!! I went to Whitney Genealogical Database 101360 I had copied all the p[ages out on 8/22/99 Starting with Nathaniel Whitney -son of Benjamin - son of John site page http://www.rootsweb.com/~gumby/cgi-bin/igmget.cgi/n=Whitney?101360 I had copied all the generations on down in my line - HELP where do I go now??? Sally Whitney Towns

All, At 05:07 AM 4/15/05, Janet wrote: >Does anyone know anything about the Asa Whitney buried in the Doty >Cemetery in Silver Creek, NY? I believe he is also the same Asa Whitney >on the 1840 census for Hanover, Chautauqua Co., NY. > >Janet Whitney Duffield This would be Asa-6 WHITNEY, son of Joshua-5 and Anna (ASHLEY) WHITNEY [Joshua-4, William-3, Joshua-2, John-1], born 23 Feb 1784, Canaan, CT, and married Betsey CHILDS. He is #1494 in Pierce: <http://www.whitneygen.org/archives/extracts/pierce/p216-221.htm#P1494>. Regards, Robert Mr. Robert L. Ward [email protected] http://www.whitneygen.org/home.html