Does the following sound familiar to anyone? : Sir Thomas White, English merchant; born. Reading, England, 1492 died Oxford, February 12th, 1567.He engaged in business as a clothier, from 1523 and in 1525 was Master of the Merchant Taylors Company. Increasingly prosperous, he made large loans to Coventry and Bristol, and held Civic office as Alderman (1544) and Sheriff of London (1547).In 1533 he helped to promote the Muscovey Company, and in the same year was elected Lord Mayor, in which office he was of assistance to Mary Stuart on her accession to the throne. Thomas was deeply interested in education. He was one of the founders of the Merchant Taylors School, and in 1560 he founded ST. Johns college, Oxford. This would have been my Maternal ancester, many "G's" back. 73 Paul Plasters On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:56:51 -0500 "Barry Wetherington" <[email protected]> writes: > "Gov. John WHITE, who was the Grandfather to Virginia DARE, was born > May 12, > 1540 in Chelmsford, Essex, England and died sometime after February > 4, > 1592/1593 in Newtowne, in Kylmore, Galway, Ireland." > (see below) > > "I have just completed the line of Virginia Dare ancestors > back to > approximately 1087, thru her Grandfather Gov. John White. If anyone > is > interested, please post to this site"? [Chuck Gleason - See messages > below]. > > Hi White Lists, > > The original of this msg didn't seem to reach the White Lists, > > Barry > > QUERY!!!: Is this (below) THE Chuck Gleason (II) [The Old Roots > Searcher] > who had the White ancestryship information, and left us this message: > "I have just completed the line of Virginia Dare ancestors > back to > approximately 1087, thru her Grandfather Gov. John White. If anyone > is > interested, please post to this site"? [See messages below]. > > If so, has someone taken over the Genealogical Quest of Mr > Gleason? Is > son "Charles H. Gleason III of Sylmar, CA. and his wife, Lee of > Albuquerque." the Genealogist? ... or taking over the what seems > very useful > research of Charles (Chuck) H.Gleason II? : > > "Charles H.Gleason II, 86, a resident of Albuquerque passed > away on > August 3, 2003. He was born Feb 17, 1917 in Scotts Bluff, Nebraska to > Charles Herbert Gleason and Hazel Pauline Martin Gleason. A graduate > of USC > University of Southern Cal and served with the Dept of the Navy > during the > war. For many years Mr. Gleason owned and operated saw mills and > lumber > mills in Washington and Oregon states. Charles was an avid and > accomplished > sailor and spent many years on the water. Charles is survived by one > son, > Charles H. Gleason III of Sylmar, CA. and by his wife, Lee of > Albuquerque. > Cremation will occur and scattering of the ashes will take place in > California later this year." > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GLEASON/2003-08/1060574732 > > Barry Wetherington > [email protected] & [email protected] > Birmingham MI 48009 > > =================== > Hi Kim Power & Syd Satchfield; (& Chuck Gleason) (This is a large > msg - > hope > it fits in the size constraints of Rootweb) > > Re: Robert Satchfeild & John Dare (s/o Ananias Dare b/o VA Dare d/o > Eleanor White w/o John White leader of the Lost Colony 1587) > (discussed by > Chuck Gleason - see at the bottom) ; > Va Dare 1587 d/o Ananias b/o John Dare/Satchfield Gov White > Ancestors > > (& Chuck Gleason [[email protected]] - VERY MUCH > like your > VA > Dare ancestors - very important for our Dare-L Rootsweb List, see > our > Archives (FREE) at: > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/d/dare.html) > > ===================== > > Re: Robert Satchfeild & John Dare (s/o Ananias Dare b/o VA Dare d/o > Eleanor > White w/o John White leader of the Lost Colony (discussed by Chuck > Gleason - > see at the bottom) > > Kim, Thank you for your thorough reply. You will make me work, > but this > is potentially important and interesting. > > Barry Wetherington, > Birmingham Michigan 48009 > PS: If anyone can fwd this on to Chuck Gleason, please do so w/my > enthusiastic 'THANKS". > > ====================== > Message Just Received Follows - > > Re: Va Dare 1587 d/o Ananias, b/o John Dare/Satchfield/Satchfeild > (note 2 > possible spellings. bw) > Posted by: Kim Power (ID *****8834) Date: November 07, 2003 at > 18:10:51 > In Reply to: Va Dare 1587 d/o Ananias, b/o John Dare by Barry > Wetherington > of 312 > http://genforum.genealogy.com/dare/messages/312.html > > Syd Satchfield and myself, (my grandmother was a Satchfield), are > tracing our english Satchfield line. Syd has traced a lot of the > early > information and we have got back as far as the late 1600's with a > possible > link to Gilbert Satchfield (about 1527 - 1576). > ~~~~~~~~~~ > [Insert by Barry bw 11/8/03 - Important New UK research resources > have just > come online - go here: > -You can now download Free more data from the The National (UK) > Archives, more than a million documents, from UK databases - to > include, as > ONE EXAMPLE of many, search and on DocumentsOnline download all > Prerogative > Court of Canterbury wills. They cover the period from 1384 to 1858. > Searching the index is free and you can search by first and last > name, > place, occupation and date. It costs UK £3 to download a digital > image of a > will in PDF format. (This is not an intuitive site to use, and the > Link URL > is weird looking: > > > http://64.4.8.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=6040994ab1b3a5d4913a478fe2e c3355&lat=1068238714&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2edocumentsonline%2epro %2egov%2euk%2fdefault%2easp > > (remember to insure the entire Link is pasted into the Window - or > double > click directly on this Link above) > *** Persevere & you will be rewarded!. > & > perhaps just as important and much easier, the 2d UK site: > NO!!http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/FamHist.htm NO!!! > A2A has a new URL! Please use http://www.a2a.org.uk next time you > visit!] > 2 catalogues were found to match satchfield > Shown below are catalogues 1 to 2 (of 2) > Search Satchfield: > * Devon Record Office: Sowton Parish 1639-1963 > 2 > hit(s) > * Devon Record Office: Withycombe Raleigh Parish 1657-1860 1 > hit(s) > > http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/doclist.asp?nb=0&com=1&keyword=satchfield > (zero for 'Satchfeild' here) > > ====================== > "the Dare-White marriage at St. Bride's ... October 1587" > . . . . . . . . > Ananias Dare of St. Bride Parish, after an absence of seven years, > was > legally declared to have died overseas. A number of twentieth century > sources name St. Bride's as being the site of the marriage of > Ananias Dare > and Elinor White, future parents of Virginia Dare, the first English > child > born in America. This notion apparently is based on THE PHOENIX OF > FLEET > STREET, 2000 YEARS OF ST. BRIDE'S a book published in 1973 by the > then > rector of the parish. Since the Probate Acts naming Ananias as a > parishoner > had come to light in the late 1950's, the "American Connection" no > doubt > stimulating a bit of interest and excitement, the Dare-White > marriage at St. > Bride's would seem to represent a leap of faith rather than a known > fact. > Entries in the St. Bride's Parish Register at the Guildhall in > London beain > eaith October 1587. Therefore, it is not possible that the marriage > is > documented therein since Ananias and > Elinor had been on Roanoke for seven months by that time and indeed, > Virginia Dare had been born in August. A register pre-dating the one > currently kept at the Guildhall is not known to exist and a record > of the > Dare-White union has not been found in other parish registers or in > London > marriage indexes. While it is possible that the marriage took place > at St. > Bride's, our current research casts more than a reasonable doubt on > the > probability. It is far more likely that the marriage took place at > the > bride's church or perhaps at a country home, which according to > other parish > and marriage records, seemed to be the prevailing custom of the day. > . . . . . . > ..."grants of arms to the colony's Governor John White " (I have > these > arms. bw 11/10/03) > Ananias Dare in the Grant of Arms to the City of Raleigh: When Sir > Walter > Raleigh, acting under the charter granted him by the Queen on 25 > March 1584, > incorporated the Governor and Assistants of the City of Raleigh in > Virginia, > he procured from William Dethick, Garter Principal King of Arms a > grant of > arms for his new city. Within this grant were incorporated > individual grants > of arms to the colony's Governor John White and to his Asssistants, > one of > whom was his son-in-lava Ananias Dare. The actual grant has > disappeared but > three drafts survive - thanks to William Dethick whose custom it was > to make > several drafts of his grants. Two of the surviving drafts are owned > by the > College of Arms in London and one by Queen's College, oxford. > Whether or not > the grant was actually made is not known but it seems highly > probable that > it was. Since three drafts survive, at least that number were > prepared, each > more definitive than the last, fees ,-muld have been paid and > therefore, a > firm intention to grant had existed. > > The heraldry contained therein is ambiguous and leaves many > questions > unanswered. From the College of Arms Vincent Manuscript, Volume 157, > Folio > 397: > ' . . . . Ananyas Dare (a feelde gules') his heires offspring and > posterity > forever, these Armes or Ensignes of Honor following: Viz. a feelde > gules, A > cross engrailed between Four Fusils Argent." > > The fusils argent on a field gules which appear on the Governor's > [White] > and all the Assistant's arms are an unmistakable reference to the > arms of > Sir Walter Raleigh. However, study of individual arms clearly depict > heraldic charges > not based on the Raleigh arms. For example, the arms of Simon > Fernando > contain an obvious reference to his profession of mariner, two bars > wavy > azure. It would therefore seem possible that King of Arms Dethick > incorporated personal and individual charges into the arms of other > Assistants, perhaps not as immediately obvious as Fernando's, that > reflects > their respective trades, guilds or family connections. The arms of > George > Howe, Roanoke Assistant incorporates three wolves heads couped. The > will of > John Howe, Grocer of London who died in 1574, contains a marginal > sketch of > his arms incorporating three almost identical couped wolves heads. A > definite link between the Grocer and the ill-fated Roanoke Assistant > has not > been made as yet, but the similar Howe heraldry must be more than > coincidental. > > In the case of Ananias Dare, the silver fusils and red field are an > obvious > refernce to Raleigh but there are no readily discernable clues to the > Assistant's family identity or heraldic reference to his guild, the > Bricklayer-Tilers. While crosses are quite common in heraldry, only > Ananias > Dare and Roger Bailey have them incorporated into their arms, a cross > engrailed for the former and a cross pattee for the latter. Also > noteworthy > is the fact that the name of Dare always follows Bailey's in both > the Grant > of Arms and Hakluyt's listing of Assistants. Moreover, Bailey and > Dare are > the two Assistant names that always follow the name of Governor John > White. > Was the incorporation of a cross for both the Bailey and Dare arms > simply a > matter of random choice, coincidental personal preference, or was > there some > significance to the choice, perhaps and indication of an Assistant > "pecking > order." The possibility of a Dare-Bailey link is further > strengthened by the > occurence of the christian names "ANANIAS" and "SACKFEILD" in the > Bailey > line during the first quarter of the 17th century in parishes > bordering on > or close to St. Bride's. (IGI) Dare of Norfolk Arms... also > Satchfeild and > Nokes. EXPAND. > > > > Continuing in Grant of Arms: " ....consitute made and appointed > John White > of London, Gentleman, to be chief governor there and Roger Baily, > Ananyas > Dare, Christopher Cooper William Full:aood, Roger Pratt, Dyonise > Harvey, > John Nicholls, George Howe . . . . . . . . . &. . . . . . . . . . . > London, > Gentlemen to be twelve assistants there. . . " It is not known with > any > degree of certainty whether or not Ananias Dare was a "gentleman" in > the > social context of the 16th century or given the title to lend > dignity to his > role as an assistant to the governor. > ....... > > D:\DATA\DATFMMIC\PERSONAL\GENEALGY\WETHERIN\WITHER\DARE\ANANIAS2.WPD > July > 11, 2000 12:51PM > ... > ============ > "Gov. John WHITE, who was the Grandfather to Virginia DARE, he was > born May > 12, 1540 in Chelmsford, Essex, England and died sometime after > February 4, > 1592/1593 in Newtowne, in Kylmore, Galway, Ireland." > http://genforum.genealogy.com/dare/messages/236.html > > Virginia Dare 1587 - 1st American Born > Posted by: Chuck GleasonDate: March 21, 2001 at 16:21:20 of 312 > I have just completed the line of Virginia Dare ancestors back to > approximately 1087, thru her Grandfather Gov. John White. If anyone > is > interested, please post to this site. > http://genforum.genealogy.com/dare/messages/140.html > . . . . . . > Re: Virginia DARE, Born 1587 Roanoke Island > Posted by: Chuck GleasonDate: January 16, 2002 at 11:51:31 > In Reply to: Re: Virginia DARE, Born 1587 Roanoke Island by lebame > houston > of 312 > Guess I should get back to this site more often. If you are > referring to > the Gov. John WHITE, who was the Grandfather to Virginia DARE, he > was born > May 12, 1540 in Chelmsford, Essex, England and died sometime after > February > 4, 1592/1593 in Newtowne, in Kylmore, Galway, Ireland. > http://genforum.genealogy.com/dare/messages/236.html > > Re: Virginia Dare 1587 - 1st American Born > Posted by: Chuck Gleason Date: July 02, 2001 at 17:10:22 > In Reply to: Re: Virginia Dare 1587 - 1st American Born by Sheila > Corrall > of 312 > Her fathers name was Ananias DARE, born about 1563. > http://genforum.genealogy.com/dare/messages/178.html > > Re: Virginia Dare 1587 - 1st American Born > Posted by: Chuck GleasonDate: July 01, 2001 at 05:34:42 > In Reply to: Re: Virginia Dare 1587 - 1st American Born by Sheila > Corrall > of 312 > Sheila: I am sorry to say, other than her father's name that is > all I have > on the DARE family. My connection is through her mother (the WHITE) > line. > Her grandfather was Gov. John WHITE, of Virginia, who made several > voyages > to America. Wish I could have helped you more. > Sincerely, Chuck Gleason > http://genforum.genealogy.com/dare/messages/176.html > ==================== > PPS: I have the quite beautiful Images of all the Arms /Crests of > the > titled > that sailed with John White, including of White & Ananias Dare. I > can send > them email, altho they are large in electronic size. bw 11/07/03 > > > > ==== WHITE Mailing List ==== > WHITE LIST ADMINISTRATOR > <[email protected]> > > Be ye fishers of men. You catch them - He'll clean them.