Greetings- In reference to Jackie Weeden's papers "Six Men Named Theophilus" and "Theophilus' Daughter Joanne", does anyone have any information about Theophilus Whaley of Manhattan, mentioned in Rev. Samuel Whaley's book (quoted below), compared to Theophilus Whaley, son of Samuel Whaley? Combining the letter below from Rev. Samuel Whaley's book, Jackie's research, and some other circumstantial evidence has so far led to a set of hints pointing in the same direction - that Theophilus of Manhattan was the son of Lawrence (son of Joanne, daughter of Theophilus), and that the Theophilus of Eastern New York and Vermont of the mid-to-late 18th century was the son of Samuel. There don't appear to be any more Theophilus Whaleys to go around in the timeframe of interest. Theophilus of Manhattan, Text from Rev. Samuel Whaley's Book, p. 100 ==================================================== "Hon. R.V. Whaley, member of the 39th Congress from West Virginia, writes in a letter from Washington, D.C., dated June 11, 1866 thus: According to the tradition of our family we sprang from Theophilus, who lived on Manhattan Island, N.Y. One of his sons went to Virginia and raised a large family. Another son went to Connecticut, where my grandfather was born. The Hon. William Whaley, an eminent lawyer of Charleston, S.C., is said to be a descendant of our family. I know nothing further of him. Our family have been remarkable for strength and activity - especially the latter, and generally lived to a very great age, seldom having hereditary diseases." Analysis of Text ============ First, who was R.V. Whaley? Well, "R." was definitely a misprint, as West Virginia was represented in the 39th Congress by Kellian V. Whaley, born 1821 according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/39th_United_States_Congress <BLOCKED::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/39th_United_States_Congress> ). According to the IGI, Kellian V. Whaley was born in Onondaga County, NY, on 6 May 1821 to David W. Whaley and Mary Polly Wickham. Next, it turns out the name Kellian Whaley has some interesting connections relative to Jackie's research. Two other unique 19th century Kellian Whaleys in the IGI have the middle names "VanRensselaer" and "Van", suggesting the name Kellian is connected to the Whaleys of Petersburg, Rensselaer County, NY found there in 1800. This county was named after the VanRensselaer family, and Jackie's research gives some hints and circumstantial evidence indicating the Rensselaer County Whaleys of 1800 may possibly have been descendants of Lawrence. So, perhaps Kellian V. Whaley was descended from Lawrence, which based on the letter above would mean Theophilus of Manhattan may have been Lawrence's son. To get a handle on Theophilus of Manhattan's birth timeframe, we can assume 20-30 year generations, and by subtracting 20-30 year ranges, we derive that Theophilus of Manhattan was born 1705-1735. (Derivation: Kellian V. Whaley was born 1821, the IGI shows Kellian's father David W. was born 1795, K.V's grandfather mentioned in the letter above as born in CT was therefore born 1765-1775, so the son of Theophilus of Manhattan who went to CT per K.V. Whaley's letter above was born 1735-1755, so Theophilus of Manhattan was born 1705-1735). The birth timeframe of 1705-1735 places Theophilus of Manhattan squarely in range to be one of only two possible people (below). The other Theophilus Whaleys (see Jackie's paper) were born significantly later than 1735. - He may have been the son of Lawrence(3)Joanne(2)Theophilus(1). Lawrence was born about 1692 according to Stiles' interviews/estimates. Although Stiles stated that Lawrence had no children, Jackie's research of Rhode Island Public Records notes a Theophilus born to a Lawrence, year unknown due to fire-damage records, see Jackie's papers. Stiles also wrote that Lawrence went "towards Hudson's River", which certainly makes Manhattan Island a possibility. - He may also have been the son of Samuel(2)Theophilus(1). It seems clearly established Samuel had a son Theophilus b. 1718. If we take The Hon. Kellian V. Whaley's letter as true, it would seem to indicate the Theophilus "who lived on Manhattan Island" was distinct from the Theophilus found in the area of upstate New York (Beekman Patent, etc.) and Vermont (land records, see Jackie's research) in the mid-18th century. The upstate New York/Vermont Theophilus left a lot of tracks, and is found near people with Harrington/Hopkins/Spencer type names (for example, he is found a few times with an Isaac, and Patience Harrington's father was named Isaac, see Jackie's papers). In addition, the area of the Beekman Patent near Pawling, Dutchess County, NY, where a Theophels and Isaac Whaley signed some documents in the 1760's, has Whaleys in the 1790 Census with first names matching some of Samuel's younger sons. All of this points to the upstate New York/Vermont Theophilus being descended from Samuel, and migrating to the area of the Beekman Patent with some of Samuel's other sons, and later heading north. So the hints of evidence, indirect though they are, seem to point to Theophilus of Manhattan being the son of Lawrence, and Theophilus of upstate New York/Vermont being the son of Samuel. There don't appear to be any more Theophilus Whaleys to go around with the birth timeframe of the early 18th century. This must be called speculation, as it places a lot of weight on many pieces of indirect and circumstantial evidence: 1. The indirect information in Hon. Kellian V. Whaley's letter above, citing family tradition that he had a Theophilus as an ancestor 2. Derivation of Kellian's ancestor Theophilus' birthrange of 1705-1735 (assuming a 20-30 year-old father for three generations in a row) 3. The rather unique nature of the name Kellian V. Whaley and its possible linkage to the VanRensselaer family 4. The unproven possibility that the Rennsealaer County Whaleys were descendants of Lawrence 5. Circumstantial evidence of names (specifically Isaac, but there are other examples as well) linked with the Samuel Whaley/Harrington/Hopkins clan frequently being co-located with the upstate New York / Vermont Theophilus in the timeframe in question. Thanks in advance for any information that could serve to further strengthen or to disprove this theory. Bob Hart Vienna, VA Theophilus -> Samuel -> Theophilus (unproven->) Isaac (unproven->) David W. -> Cyrenus -> Lucy -> ...non-Whaleys.... -> Bob Hart

On Jul 14, 2006, at 9:17 PM, Hart Bob - Global IT wrote: > Theophilus of Manhattan > was the son of Lawrence (son of Joanne, daughter of Theophilus) Bob, Am I missing something here? Did Joanne Whaley, daughter of Theophilus Whaley, marry a Whaley? If not, then her son, Lawrence, would not be a Whaley, but have Joanne's husband's last name, wouldn't he? Hmmmmmmmmmm. C. Carolyn Whaley Vosburg Houston, TX