Greetings- For those interested in biographical information about Theophilus Whaley, it appears that one of the visitors from Boston who called on the Willet home and apparently made a point of speaking with Theophilus was Samuel Sewall, a member of the Massachusetts Bay Colony's Governing Council under Lt. Gov William Stoughton, and a leading Puritan of the day. This is shown below through comparison of information in Samuel Sewall's diaries with information in Ezra Stiles' book, A History of the Three Judges. This comparison confirms the childhood memory of Francis Willet as related by Stiles, that the leading members of the Massachusetts Puritan government knew of and were interested in Theophilus. Samuel Sewall was one of the judges at the Salem Witch Trials of 1692 (Stoughton was the prosecutor). Sewall's diaries reveal that Sewall moved in pretty high circles in Massachusetts Puritan society, as would be expected of a member of the Governor's Council. One of his peers was Cotton Mather, for example. Interestingly, Sewall's diaries indicate he also socialized with several Walleys in the Boston area. Other than the Stiles reference to Theophilus being a First Day Baptist, this is the first connection to the New England Puritan community I have encountered for Theophilus. As none of the Theophilus Whaley websites out there mention this, and my collection of printed material is small, I'm not sure if this connection has been explored elsewhere or not, so I would appreciate any insight anyone has to offer. Thanks. -Bob Hart Vienna, VA Theophilus -> Samuel -> Theophilus (unproven -> ) Isaac (unproven ->) David -> Cyrenus -> Lucy -> ... non Whaleys ... -> Bob Hart From Ezra Stiles, A History of the Three Judges, pp. 342-343 ============================================ (NOTE: These anecdotes were told to the author, Ezra Stiles, by Francis Willet, upon whose father's land Theophilus resided in Narragansett. Historical sources show that Francis, born in 1693, was the son of Captain Andrew Willet, and the grandson of Captain Thomas Willet. Captain Thomas Willet was the man who took over leadership of the Plymouth Colony's militia from Miles Standish, and subsequently became the first governor of New York City. His son, Captain Andrew Willet, settled in Narragansett. Thus it seems Theophilus was residing with a family in pretty high standing.) "When he was a boy, he [Francis Willet] said, several Boston gentlemen used once a year to make an excursion and visit at his father's house. As soon as they came they always enquired eagerly after the welfare of the good old man: and his father used to send him, when a boy, to call him to come and spend the evening at his house, As soon as Mr. Whale came in the gentlemen embraced him with great ardour and affection, and expressed great joy at seeing him, and treated him with great friendship and respect. They spent the evening together with the most endearing familiarity, so that the Colonel said, he never saw any gentlemen treat one another with such apparently heart-felt cordiality and respect. He used to wonder at it, and could not account for it. They kept shut up in a room by themselves, and there seemed to be an air of secrecy about the matter. Their interviews were in the evening only, and continued late in the night. Just before they broke up, he used to observe that one of the gentlemen would take Mr. Whale by the hand, and they walked out into the lot, and returning, another took him out, and so all the others singly and by themselves. He did not know for what reason this was done. But when the gentlemen were all gone, Whale always had plenty of money. And the Colonel [Francis Willet] told me that he did not doubt but that they all gave him money in this private and secret matter. He frequently mentioned the names of the gentlemen, and they were some of the first characters in Boston about the beginning of this century [book published 1794]. The Secretary was one, and Judge Sewall another." From the Diaries of Samuel Sewall, 15 September 1699 ======================================== These diaries can be found at the bottom of this page: http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebrandt/NEReligiousHistory/NERel igiousHistory.cfm "Septr 15. Mr. Newton and I ride to Newport, see aged Joan Savage, (now Earl), by the way. Her husband, Ralph Earl, was born 1606. and his wife was 10. or 11years older than he. So she is esteemed to be one hun-dred and five years old. I pass over the ferry to Narra-ganset; by the time landed, twas almost quite dark. Got to Capt. Willet's, and lodg'd there. Satterday 7r 16 -- went to Tho Hazard's, and with him to Niles's Mill, from thence to Point Judith. Find his son gon to Block-Island. So I went back, to go to Newport, lodg'd at Joseph Morey's on Canonicut.". Observations: 1. Francis would have been 6 years old in 1699, so this diary entry checks out with Francis remembering being a boy when Judge Sewall visited. 2. Samuel Sewall, a member of the Governor's Council of Massachusetts at this time, definitely counted as a "first character" in Boston, so this is consistent with Willet's recollections as related by Stiles 3. Stiles described the Willet farm as "a tract extending from Narraganset ferry northward perhaps one mile and an half in length, on the Bay, and about one mile or more east and west from the Bay, across to the oblong pond called Petequamscot....At the north end of this pond and on the Willet farm, was settled Theophilus Whaley or Theophilus Whale...." You can look at Narragansett, RI on mapquest (zoom in twice) and see quite clearly that Samuel Sewall's diary of his travels on Sept. 15 match perfectly with the description of the location of Willet's farm quoted from Stiles. 4. Numerous sources indicate Andrew Willet, Francis Willet's father, held the rank of Captain, which checks with the Sewall diary entry. Thus it seems we can confirm Francis Willet's childhood memory, and positively identify the Judge Sewall who was one of the men who visited Willet's farm and who, with other "first characters" of Boston, conversed with Theophilus about serious matters, and who perhaps gave him money. (Stiles noted that these annual visits were connected with the estates and business interests of the Boston men.) Question: Who was "the Secretary" mentioned by Francis Willet who visited along with Judge Sewall? Since Sewall's diaries are filled with references to "Mr. Secretary", and Sewall was a member of Massachusetts Bay Colony's Governing Council, it would seem that "the Secretary" would have to have been Isaac Addington, Secretary of the Massachusetts Bay Colony from 1692 - 1714. There does not seem to be much posted about him. The next question is, since Samuel Sewall was part of the Puritan leadership of Massachussets, and it seems fairly clear this leadership in years previous was at least complicit in helping to hide Edward Whaley and John Goffe (and some sources say actually played an active role in helping these fellow Puritans) did Samuel Sewall have any connections to the Reverend John Russell, who hid Edward Whaley and John Goffe in the cellar of his house in Hadley? The answer to the question is yes, at least in passing acquaintance, based on the diary entry below. From the Diaries of Samuel Sewall, 25 June 1685 (Rev. Russel gave a sermon in Boston that Samuel Sewall attended) ======================================================================== ============== "Mr. Russel of Hadley preacheth the Lecture from Zech. 7.5. Did ye at all fast unto me, even to me?" Evidently Sewall did not feel the need to further identify "Mr. Russel" except to say he was from Hadley. Interestingly, the Russell family seems to have been strongly connected with the First Baptist Church (Theophilus was a First Day Baptist, according to Stiles' interview of Samuel Hopkins, grandson of Theophilus). See paragraph starting with John, Charlestown 1640 at http://www.usgennet.org/usa/topic/newengland/savage/bk3/russell-ryland.h tm The last question that strikes me is: Why didn't Samuel Sewall mention Theophilus in his diaries? Given Francis Willet's description of their meeting(s) as related in Stiles, one would think conversing with Theophilus would have been worthy of at least a brief note such as "Saw Theophilus Whaley". Perhaps Samuel Sewall thought it indiscreet to write anything about Theophilus in a diary, given the rumors swirling about that he was one of the Regicides.

From Rootsweb personnel: To retrieve a digest send a new email to the list digest request address LISTNAME-D-request@rootsweb.com (replace the word LISTNAME with the actual name of the list). For the subject put: archive and for the message body type in: get volume06/20 (that's just an example. The 06 represents the YEAR--2006 and the 20 is the actual digest number--you have to know the number of the digest you want to retrieve. ------------------------------------------------------via webmail---- Tim Stowell tstowell@chattanooga.net

> Thanks, Tim for #67 and 68. I still need 64, 65, 66, 69. > When I get these Digests, I highlight the material, and go to edit > and hit copy and go to write and hit paste in the body of a letter. > Then I go through the Digest and black out and then delete the > material that is repeated over and over again, so as to save paper and > ink. Then I make a copy for myself and send the edited copy to > Weeden. We have YEARS of Digests on file and she can refer to > an article in them at the drop of your hat. Amazing. > I don't know why my address is jumping around. Another lady tried to > send them to me and was not successful, either. Please try again. > Ruby rlnsd@aol.com Ruby and all, Lest you think I didn't try to send the missing ones to you - I tried twice but AOL rejected them saying your address was unavailable, although it gladly sent 67 and 68 twice. I looked to see if there was a size issue, but that didn't seem to be the case. So, I'm asking around to see if we can't go another route. ------------------------------------------------------via webmail---- Tim Stowell tstowell@chattanooga.net

Thanks, Tim for #67 and 68. I still need 64, 65, 66, 69. When I get these Digests, I highlight the material, and go to edit and hit copy and go to write and hit paste in the body of a letter. Then I go through the Digest and black out and then delete the material that is repeated over and over again, so as to save paper and ink. Then I make a copy for myself and send the edited copy to Weeden. We have YEARS of Digests on file and she can refer to an article in them at the drop of your hat. Amazing. I don't know why my address is jumping around. Another lady tried to send them to me and was not successful, either. Please try again. Ruby rlnsd@aol.com

Carolyn- I can't vouch for the Hitchinbrooke birth location, but I absolutely stand by the information I submitted concerning the various Richards. Perhaps someone else may have documentation on Hitchinbrooke. Robert Whaley Carolyn Vosburg wrote: > > On Jul 16, 2006, at 10:17 AM, Frank Whalley wrote: > >> Richard WHALLEY >> b. ca 1544 Hinchinbrooke, Huntingdonshire, England >> >> Father: Thomas WHALLEY >> Mother: Elizabeth Hatfield >> >> md. Frances CROMWELL ca. 1573 > > > Frank & Bob, > > This info was extracted from a submission to the Latter Day Saints' > website without > any documentation to back it up by the submitter! You can see it by > doing a > search for Richard WHALLEY md. Frances CROMWELL. So, I don't have a clue > as to where they came up with the Hinchinbrooke reference to Richard's > birthplace. > > Carolyn > > > > http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp > > > It may be worth mentioning that Hinchingbrooke was not a village or > town, but a country house and estate. It is currently used as a > school, a there is a lot of info on this site: > > http://www.hinchhouse.org.uk/ > > It was formerly the site of a Priory, which was dissolved by Henry > VIII and given to Richard Cromwell, ancestory of Oliver Cromwell, the > Lord Protector. > > What I find puzzling is why Richard Whalley who married Frances > Cromwell, Oliver's aunt, should be born at Hinchingbrooke, since the > Whalleys at that time lived at Screveton in Nottinghamshire. > > Brown's History of Nottinghamshire, on this site: > > http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/Brown1896/screveton.htm > > shows a picture of a Whalley monument iin Screveton church, and the > quotation which appears in Rev. Sam. Whaley's book. The monument was > erected to a Richard Whalley who died in 1584 by his widow. The text > it says that this Richard was the grandfather of the Richard Whalley > who married Frances Cromwell. > > Frank Whalley > Penarth, nr Cardiff, Wales, UK > > > > > > > > ==== WHALEY Mailing List ==== > Whaley Oldest Ancestors List: now online at: http://whaley.phpbbnow.com > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

At 04:45 PM 7/16/06 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 7/16/2006 3:36:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >tstowell@chattanooga.net writes: > >missing Digests 64-69, please let me know and I can shoot them > > > >I don't have any, and what atr the digests? Kathryn kfernding@aol.com Most list members receive the messages to the list in List mode - this one. List mode means that when a member posts to the list, everyone subscribed to the list in List mode gets a copy of the email immediately. However, if a list member so desires to get messages to the list batched together by some time frame or size determined by the list adminstrator, then messages to the list are held until either the time frame passes or the digest size is reached. Under Digest mode list members get fewer messages but each message is larger since it contains 1 or more individual messages. If you are only subscribed in List mode, you'll never see a Digest message unless a Digest subscriber replies to one of the Digest mode messages - like this: Subject: [WSP] Re: WHALEY-D Digest V05 #24 Hope this helps you understand the difference between list and digest modes. Tim

On Jul 16, 2006, at 10:17 AM, Frank Whalley wrote: > Richard WHALLEY > b. ca 1544 Hinchinbrooke, Huntingdonshire, England > > Father: Thomas WHALLEY > Mother: Elizabeth Hatfield > > md. Frances CROMWELL ca. 1573 Frank & Bob, This info was extracted from a submission to the Latter Day Saints' website without any documentation to back it up by the submitter! You can see it by doing a search for Richard WHALLEY md. Frances CROMWELL. So, I don't have a clue as to where they came up with the Hinchinbrooke reference to Richard's birthplace. Carolyn http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp It may be worth mentioning that Hinchingbrooke was not a village or town, but a country house and estate. It is currently used as a school, a there is a lot of info on this site: http://www.hinchhouse.org.uk/ It was formerly the site of a Priory, which was dissolved by Henry VIII and given to Richard Cromwell, ancestory of Oliver Cromwell, the Lord Protector. What I find puzzling is why Richard Whalley who married Frances Cromwell, Oliver's aunt, should be born at Hinchingbrooke, since the Whalleys at that time lived at Screveton in Nottinghamshire. Brown's History of Nottinghamshire, on this site: http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/Brown1896/screveton.htm shows a picture of a Whalley monument iin Screveton church, and the quotation which appears in Rev. Sam. Whaley's book. The monument was erected to a Richard Whalley who died in 1584 by his widow. The text it says that this Richard was the grandfather of the Richard Whalley who married Frances Cromwell. Frank Whalley Penarth, nr Cardiff, Wales, UK

In a message dated 7/16/2006 3:36:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tstowell@chattanooga.net writes: missing Digests 64-69, please let me know and I can shoot them I don't have any, and what atr the digests? Kathryn kfernding@aol.com

It may be worth mentioning that Hinchingbrooke was not a village or town, but a country house and estate. It is currently used as a school, a there is a lot of info on this site: http://www.hinchhouse.org.uk/ It was formerly the site of a Priory, which was dissolved by Henry VIII and given to Richard Cromwell, ancestory of Oliver Cromwell, the Lord Protector. What I find puzzling is why Richard Whalley who married Frances Cromwell, Oliver's aunt, should be born at Hinchingbrooke, since the Whalleys at that time lived at Screveton in Nottinghamshire. Brown's History of Nottinghamshire, on this site: http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/Brown1896/screveton.htm shows a picture of a Whalley monument iin Screveton church, and the quotation which appears in Rev. Sam. Whaley's book. The monument was erected to a Richard Whalley who died in 1584 by his widow. The text it says that this Richard was the grandfather of the Richard Whalley who married Frances Cromwell. Frank Whalley Penarth, nr Cardiff, Wales, UK ----Original Message Follows---- From: Carolyn Vosburg <lynvos@sbcglobal.net> Reply-To: WHALEY-L@rootsweb.com To: WHALEY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [WSP] Richard WHALLEY md. Frances CROMWELL, attempt #2!!! Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 20:30:21 -0500 Okay, if at first you don't succeed . . . . . Richard WHALLEY b. ca 1544 Hinchinbrooke, Huntingdonshire, England Father: Thomas WHALLEY Mother: Elizabeth Hatfield md. Frances CROMWELL ca. 1573 It appears to me that this Thomas would be your oldest ancestor, Angela! C. ==== WHALEY Mailing List ==== To Unsubscribe from this list - send email to - whaley-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word - unsubscribe in the body of the email. If you are subscribed in Digest mode use the same address but change the -L- to -D-. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

If anyone is missing Digests 64-69, please let me know and I can shoot them to you. Ruby asked for such but her email address is bouncing this afternoon. Tim

Frank and Angela- Below are some informational anecdotes concerning the Whalley line credited to one, Geoffrey Jaggar. Mr. Jaggar was an academic and has supplied copious footnotes with the following information which convinces me that this information is probably accurate. The architect of the original Whalley family fortune was Richard Whalley, 'the elder' (1489-1583), great grandfather of Edward Whalley, the regicide. Said Richard was descended from an earlier Richard, of Darlaston, Staffordshire. This Darlaston Richard Whalley was the husband of Elizabeth Leak; Ms. Leak was heir to the ancient family seat of the Leaks - Kirkton Hall in Screveton, Nottinghamshire, which then became property of the Whalley family. Richard the elder was a rather corrupt fellow, but a very astute and opportunistic administrator. Whalley was employed by Thomas Cromwell in the desolution of monestaries during the religious upheavals of the early 16th century. Whalley was granted Welbeck Abbey, Bellers Grange, Hurst Grange and Gledthorpe Grange. A few years later Whalley, acquired the chantry of Sibthorpe. Whalley, in his capacity as Crown Receiver for Yorkshire, was later accused and convicted of appropriating Crown funds for his own use. Whalley also spent two periods imprisoned as a result of his many political intrigues surrounding the Duke of Somerset and was finally released from the Tower in 1552 and fined heavily. This was not to be his final imprisonment, however. He was imprisoned in September 1552 for illegal alchemical activities through and employee named Richard Eden. A quarrel erupted after Eden's unsuccessful search for the elusive philosopher's stone, Eden then betrayed his former employer and Whalley was imprisoned and fined heavily once again. He was forced to give up Welbeck and other substantial properties as a result. At Mary's accession, Richard successfully repaired his damaged reputation and reacquired massive wealth and extensive properties. Richard's third wife, Barbara, erected the tomb to his memory in the Screveton church. Thomas Whalley, his eldest son, predeceased Richard the elder in death in 1582. Thus Richard Whalley, Richard the elder's grandson and father of Edward the regicide, inherited the Whalley estates. This father of Edward is considered Richard, 'the younger'. Robert Whaley Rochester, NY Frank Whalley wrote: > It may be worth mentioning that Hinchingbrooke was not a village or > town, but a country house and estate. It is currently used as a > school, a there is a lot of info on this site: > > http://www.hinchhouse.org.uk/ > > It was formerly the site of a Priory, which was dissolved by Henry > VIII and given to Richard Cromwell, ancestory of Oliver Cromwell, the > Lord Protector. > > What I find puzzling is why Richard Whalley who married Frances > Cromwell, Oliver's aunt, should be born at Hinchingbrooke, since the > Whalleys at that time lived at Screveton in Nottinghamshire. > > Brown's History of Nottinghamshire, on this site: > > http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/Brown1896/screveton.htm > > shows a picture of a Whalley monument iin Screveton church, and the > quotation which appears in Rev. Sam. Whaley's book. The monument was > erected to a Richard Whalley who died in 1584 by his widow. The text > it says that this Richard was the grandfather of the Richard Whalley > who married Frances Cromwell. > > Frank Whalley > Penarth, nr Cardiff, Wales, UK > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Carolyn Vosburg <lynvos@sbcglobal.net> > Reply-To: WHALEY-L@rootsweb.com > To: WHALEY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [WSP] Richard WHALLEY md. Frances CROMWELL, attempt #2!!! > Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 20:30:21 -0500 > > Okay, if at first you don't succeed . . . . . > > Richard WHALLEY > b. ca 1544 Hinchinbrooke, Huntingdonshire, England > > Father: Thomas WHALLEY > Mother: Elizabeth Hatfield > > md. Frances CROMWELL ca. 1573 > > It appears to me that this Thomas would be your oldest ancestor, Angela! > > > C. > > > ==== WHALEY Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe from this list - send email to - > whaley-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word - unsubscribe in > the body of the email. If you are subscribed in Digest mode use the > same address but change the -L- to -D-. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > ==== WHALEY Mailing List ==== > Wish to post from more than one address? Contact list administrator at > whaley-admin@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

On a side note: When David took a job at the University of R.I. in 1960, we purchased a house not far from Narragansett in Peace Dale from Whaley Realty! Such fun to know we were living in Whaley territory even though it wasn't linked to our James Whaley of Virginia branch! C. Carolyn Whaley Vosburg Houston, TX On Jul 15, 2006, at 9:04 AM, Hart Bob - Global IT wrote: > Carol- > > Joane Whaley was not married. From Stiles, History of the Judges of > King > Charles I, p. 349: > > (The context of the paragraph below includes Stiles citing a Miss Nelly > Hazleton, living in 1793, who listed Samuel Whaley's children, and > indicated that from these children all the Whaleys in Narragansett and > Connecticut were descended; Stiles then goes on below to show that > Samuel was not the only possible ancestor of these Whaleys. The Judge > Hopkins mentioned was Samuel Hopkins, grandson of Theophilus Whaley by > his daughter Martha and her husband Joseph Hopkins) > > "There was indeed another Whale from Theophilus, but not from Samuel. > Joane, the eldest daughter of old Theophilus never was married: yet had > two children, who went by the name of Whale, Lawrence Whale and Mary > Whale. Lawrence lived many years in Narragansett, and afterwards went > away towards Hudson's river. Judge Hopkins did not know his birth, but > if then living in 1785, he judged he would be aged 95, or certainly 12 > or 15 years older than Judge Hopkins was, and so his birth about 1690. > Doctor Torry, who was born October 19, 1707, was well acquainted with > Lawrence, and judged him 15 years older than himself, which would bring > his birth 1692...." > > -Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carolyn Vosburg [mailto:lynvos@sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 8:48 AM > To: WHALEY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [WSP] Theophilus Whaley of Manhattan (son of Lawrence?), > b. > about 1705-1735, and Theophilus Whaley, son of Samuel, b. 1718 > > > On Jul 14, 2006, at 9:17 PM, Hart Bob - Global IT wrote: > >> Theophilus of Manhattan >> was the son of Lawrence (son of Joanne, daughter of Theophilus) > > Bob, > > Am I missing something here? Did Joanne Whaley, daughter of Theophilus > Whaley, marry a Whaley? If not, then her son, Lawrence, would not be a > Whaley, but have Joanne's husband's last name, wouldn't he? > Hmmmmmmmmmm. > > > C. > > > > Carolyn Whaley Vosburg > Houston, TX > > > ==== WHALEY Mailing List ==== > Whaley Oldest Ancestors List: now online at: > http://whaley.phpbbnow.com > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > ==== WHALEY Mailing List ==== > Having problems with your subscription? Contact list administrator at > whaley-admin@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

Carol- Joane Whaley was not married. From Stiles, History of the Judges of King Charles I, p. 349: (The context of the paragraph below includes Stiles citing a Miss Nelly Hazleton, living in 1793, who listed Samuel Whaley's children, and indicated that from these children all the Whaleys in Narragansett and Connecticut were descended; Stiles then goes on below to show that Samuel was not the only possible ancestor of these Whaleys. The Judge Hopkins mentioned was Samuel Hopkins, grandson of Theophilus Whaley by his daughter Martha and her husband Joseph Hopkins) "There was indeed another Whale from Theophilus, but not from Samuel. Joane, the eldest daughter of old Theophilus never was married: yet had two children, who went by the name of Whale, Lawrence Whale and Mary Whale. Lawrence lived many years in Narragansett, and afterwards went away towards Hudson's river. Judge Hopkins did not know his birth, but if then living in 1785, he judged he would be aged 95, or certainly 12 or 15 years older than Judge Hopkins was, and so his birth about 1690. Doctor Torry, who was born October 19, 1707, was well acquainted with Lawrence, and judged him 15 years older than himself, which would bring his birth 1692...." -Bob -----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Vosburg [mailto:lynvos@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 8:48 AM To: WHALEY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WSP] Theophilus Whaley of Manhattan (son of Lawrence?), b. about 1705-1735, and Theophilus Whaley, son of Samuel, b. 1718 On Jul 14, 2006, at 9:17 PM, Hart Bob - Global IT wrote: > Theophilus of Manhattan > was the son of Lawrence (son of Joanne, daughter of Theophilus) Bob, Am I missing something here? Did Joanne Whaley, daughter of Theophilus Whaley, marry a Whaley? If not, then her son, Lawrence, would not be a Whaley, but have Joanne's husband's last name, wouldn't he? Hmmmmmmmmmm. C. Carolyn Whaley Vosburg Houston, TX ==== WHALEY Mailing List ==== Whaley Oldest Ancestors List: now online at: http://whaley.phpbbnow.com ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

On Jul 14, 2006, at 9:17 PM, Hart Bob - Global IT wrote: > Theophilus of Manhattan > was the son of Lawrence (son of Joanne, daughter of Theophilus) Bob, Am I missing something here? Did Joanne Whaley, daughter of Theophilus Whaley, marry a Whaley? If not, then her son, Lawrence, would not be a Whaley, but have Joanne's husband's last name, wouldn't he? Hmmmmmmmmmm. C. Carolyn Whaley Vosburg Houston, TX

Greetings- In reference to Jackie Weeden's papers "Six Men Named Theophilus" and "Theophilus' Daughter Joanne", does anyone have any information about Theophilus Whaley of Manhattan, mentioned in Rev. Samuel Whaley's book (quoted below), compared to Theophilus Whaley, son of Samuel Whaley? Combining the letter below from Rev. Samuel Whaley's book, Jackie's research, and some other circumstantial evidence has so far led to a set of hints pointing in the same direction - that Theophilus of Manhattan was the son of Lawrence (son of Joanne, daughter of Theophilus), and that the Theophilus of Eastern New York and Vermont of the mid-to-late 18th century was the son of Samuel. There don't appear to be any more Theophilus Whaleys to go around in the timeframe of interest. Theophilus of Manhattan, Text from Rev. Samuel Whaley's Book, p. 100 ==================================================== "Hon. R.V. Whaley, member of the 39th Congress from West Virginia, writes in a letter from Washington, D.C., dated June 11, 1866 thus: According to the tradition of our family we sprang from Theophilus, who lived on Manhattan Island, N.Y. One of his sons went to Virginia and raised a large family. Another son went to Connecticut, where my grandfather was born. The Hon. William Whaley, an eminent lawyer of Charleston, S.C., is said to be a descendant of our family. I know nothing further of him. Our family have been remarkable for strength and activity - especially the latter, and generally lived to a very great age, seldom having hereditary diseases." Analysis of Text ============ First, who was R.V. Whaley? Well, "R." was definitely a misprint, as West Virginia was represented in the 39th Congress by Kellian V. Whaley, born 1821 according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/39th_United_States_Congress <BLOCKED::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/39th_United_States_Congress> ). According to the IGI, Kellian V. Whaley was born in Onondaga County, NY, on 6 May 1821 to David W. Whaley and Mary Polly Wickham. Next, it turns out the name Kellian Whaley has some interesting connections relative to Jackie's research. Two other unique 19th century Kellian Whaleys in the IGI have the middle names "VanRensselaer" and "Van", suggesting the name Kellian is connected to the Whaleys of Petersburg, Rensselaer County, NY found there in 1800. This county was named after the VanRensselaer family, and Jackie's research gives some hints and circumstantial evidence indicating the Rensselaer County Whaleys of 1800 may possibly have been descendants of Lawrence. So, perhaps Kellian V. Whaley was descended from Lawrence, which based on the letter above would mean Theophilus of Manhattan may have been Lawrence's son. To get a handle on Theophilus of Manhattan's birth timeframe, we can assume 20-30 year generations, and by subtracting 20-30 year ranges, we derive that Theophilus of Manhattan was born 1705-1735. (Derivation: Kellian V. Whaley was born 1821, the IGI shows Kellian's father David W. was born 1795, K.V's grandfather mentioned in the letter above as born in CT was therefore born 1765-1775, so the son of Theophilus of Manhattan who went to CT per K.V. Whaley's letter above was born 1735-1755, so Theophilus of Manhattan was born 1705-1735). The birth timeframe of 1705-1735 places Theophilus of Manhattan squarely in range to be one of only two possible people (below). The other Theophilus Whaleys (see Jackie's paper) were born significantly later than 1735. - He may have been the son of Lawrence(3)Joanne(2)Theophilus(1). Lawrence was born about 1692 according to Stiles' interviews/estimates. Although Stiles stated that Lawrence had no children, Jackie's research of Rhode Island Public Records notes a Theophilus born to a Lawrence, year unknown due to fire-damage records, see Jackie's papers. Stiles also wrote that Lawrence went "towards Hudson's River", which certainly makes Manhattan Island a possibility. - He may also have been the son of Samuel(2)Theophilus(1). It seems clearly established Samuel had a son Theophilus b. 1718. If we take The Hon. Kellian V. Whaley's letter as true, it would seem to indicate the Theophilus "who lived on Manhattan Island" was distinct from the Theophilus found in the area of upstate New York (Beekman Patent, etc.) and Vermont (land records, see Jackie's research) in the mid-18th century. The upstate New York/Vermont Theophilus left a lot of tracks, and is found near people with Harrington/Hopkins/Spencer type names (for example, he is found a few times with an Isaac, and Patience Harrington's father was named Isaac, see Jackie's papers). In addition, the area of the Beekman Patent near Pawling, Dutchess County, NY, where a Theophels and Isaac Whaley signed some documents in the 1760's, has Whaleys in the 1790 Census with first names matching some of Samuel's younger sons. All of this points to the upstate New York/Vermont Theophilus being descended from Samuel, and migrating to the area of the Beekman Patent with some of Samuel's other sons, and later heading north. So the hints of evidence, indirect though they are, seem to point to Theophilus of Manhattan being the son of Lawrence, and Theophilus of upstate New York/Vermont being the son of Samuel. There don't appear to be any more Theophilus Whaleys to go around with the birth timeframe of the early 18th century. This must be called speculation, as it places a lot of weight on many pieces of indirect and circumstantial evidence: 1. The indirect information in Hon. Kellian V. Whaley's letter above, citing family tradition that he had a Theophilus as an ancestor 2. Derivation of Kellian's ancestor Theophilus' birthrange of 1705-1735 (assuming a 20-30 year-old father for three generations in a row) 3. The rather unique nature of the name Kellian V. Whaley and its possible linkage to the VanRensselaer family 4. The unproven possibility that the Rennsealaer County Whaleys were descendants of Lawrence 5. Circumstantial evidence of names (specifically Isaac, but there are other examples as well) linked with the Samuel Whaley/Harrington/Hopkins clan frequently being co-located with the upstate New York / Vermont Theophilus in the timeframe in question. Thanks in advance for any information that could serve to further strengthen or to disprove this theory. Bob Hart Vienna, VA Theophilus -> Samuel -> Theophilus (unproven->) Isaac (unproven->) David W. -> Cyrenus -> Lucy -> ...non-Whaleys.... -> Bob Hart

I am editing and printing the recent Digests and sending copies to Weeden. I am missing Digests 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69. I have Digests 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76. Could I please be sent the missing ones for my records??? rlnsd@aol.com Am I using the incorrect address???

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ANWBAIB/874.1.1.2 Message Board Post: Marnie, I don't know if you're still researching or have found more info, but ... John Whaley (son of John & Julia Ann) b: c. 1838 d: before 1870 census m: Elizabeth 3 children: John W. b: Apr 1859, m: c. 1879 Adelia b: c. 1862 Julia b: c. 1865 Elizabeth m: 2nd Leonard Verity Carol

Hello! I found the attached on the rootsweb Whaley archives. I would very much be interested in any information regarding James Whaley and Sarah Gardiner/Gordonier, such as parents names, siblings, places and dates of birth, marriage, death, children's names, etc. No detail is too small! I am also willing to contribute towards the costs incurred by others to obtain this information. Below are some family history excerpts and notes. I found James Whaley listed as a landowner in Florence NY in 1814. Orange Barlow and Elizabeth Whaley are my g-g-g-grandparents. They moved to Mich abt 1833. Many thanks! Clarke Macy From: < RLNSD@aol.com> Subject: James Whaley and Sarah Gordonier Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:52:20 EDT In George's oldest known ancestor list Phyllis Stewart says "James Whaley (m Sarah Gordonier ?--1827, Oneida Co NY)" I don't know what kind of data Phyllis is looking for. I have FGSs on James and Sarah and 7 of their 11 children. If Phyllis would send me whatever info she has found on this couple and her line of descent from them as well as her sources:-family bible, public records, census, obituaries, cemetery records or whatever they were, I will then copy and send from my records whatever else she may want or need. I have MUCH data and have corresponded in 1988 and 1991 with 2 other researchers who descend from this line. Jackie Weeden (rlnsd@aol.com) Our oral family history has James m. Sarah Gardiner (Gordinier, etc). Recently we received a written history from another relative, written by Nathan Pratt Barlow of Camden NY. Here are some excerpts: "My grandfather [Nathan Barlow] had a neighbor on Florence Hill named Whaley. He died about 40 and left a family of eleven children. The fourth child in the family was a little girl named Betsy. My grandfather [Nathan Barlow] and step grandmother [widow Corey] adopted her into the family. When my father [Orange Barlow, son of Nathan Barlow, father of the author Nathan Pratt Barlow] came home from Chataqua, he married the adopted sister. She was 21 years old." ..."[Eliz Whaley] was born in Florence Hill in 1805. Her father's name was James Whaley. Her mother's name was Sarah Gardinier Whaley. When she was a little girl on the death of her father, she was adopted into the family of Nathan Barlow then living in Camden with his second wife the widow Corey. She was married to Orange Barlow on his return from Chataqua, in 1826."..."She came of a strong and vital stock, the Gardinier's (pronounced Gordnier) one of the old Dutch families of the Mohawk River Valley in the state of NY." "My grandfather Whaley [James Whaley] was a quiet peaceable little man with a small hard stony hemlock farm on Florence Hill NY where he died of fever about the age of forty years. His wife was of a different pattern. She was of one of those Dutch families who made their way up the Hudson River and up the Mohawk and were called by the Yankee settlers Mohawk River Dutch. Her maiden name was Gardnier (pronounced Gordnier). She was the Cynthia of a pair of twins Sarah and Cynthia. ..she was tall, strong and vigorous. She had eleven children, the eleventh born after her husband's death which was when he was about forty years old. She was a weaver and with her loom and the little hard farm she worked out the problem of the support of her family. She kept them all at home except my mother who was Elizabeth, or as they called her Betsy. She was taken by my grandfather Nathan Barlow and his second wife [widow Corey] and brought up in their family." Notes for Eliz Whaley Barlow: Death certificate from Ingham Co. Clerk (Mason MI) dated 13 Aug 1884. d. 21 July 1883. age 66 yr 11 mon _ days. place Onandaga MI. Killed in her house by cyclone. born in NY. Occupation: housekeeper. Parents names: James Whaley & Sally Whaley. Residence: NY ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Cemetery: Lame Cem (Onandaga burial Ground). headstone: "Elizabeth Barlow, wife of Orange. Killed by tornado 23 July 1883. Age 77 yr 10 mon 23 days" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ The date on the headstone is thought to be correct, not the age given on the death certificate, because other family notes have 1805 as the birth year. Also notice the death certificate record date, if correct, is a year after her death. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Eliz. was skilled in spinning wool and flax on a spinning wheel. James Rodney Barlow, her son, made a small bowl of wood from the spinning wheel. Now in possession of Clarke Macy (2005). I also found another person's Ancestry.com tree "Rice and Siegrist Families" that shows Hester Ann Whaley b. 11 Aug 1818 in Camden NY to James Whaley & Sarah Gordonier. She married Nathan W. Griswold on 8 Dec 1839, b. 17 Sep 1817 in Fairfield Herkimer Co NY. She died 5 Dec 1894 Waverly Lancaster NE. I have not been able to get in touch with the author Phyllis Stewart.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ANWBAIB/948 Message Board Post: Looking for Cordelia Whaley, b. abt. 1820 in TN or NC (per the 1880 Census), md. James Filyaw, Jr. in TN. Any help is appreciated. e-mail me direct at: rleehaney@aol.com

> That is very interesting Frank, thanks for telling us. Barb Whaley Marsh