Someone kindly shared a partial listing of the sale of the estate of Ebenezer Henry Rowe from 1879 which has a number of names of individuals from the Kilmore, County Wexford area.. I have copied most of the names and do have a plat map of where the leases were that Iwould be willing to share. The names I have gleaned are: >From Rickardstown, Barony of Bargy James RASFORD (probably derived from Rochford somewhere along the line after reading some of Jane Lyon's info on brogues, etc.) This lease was from 1834 for the life of his son Richard RASHFORD. John COLFER, lease date 1834 for life of son John Joseph BROWN rep for Catherine ROSSITER 1834 lease for life of son Thomas ROSSITER Richard KEATING (my ggrandfather) rep for Patrick FURLONG, lease 1863 and also rep for Patrick SINNOTT (another gggrandfather) lease dated 1834 for life of Michael SINNOTT (ggrandfather) >From Sarshill Nicholas KEATING, 1863 lease Martin FARDY, rep of Mary FARDY--year to year tenancy Martin Kehoe rep of Wm. Keogho dated 1863 John RADFORD rep of James RADFORD Elizabeth BARRY Nicholas FURLONG, rep of John FURLONG Eliza BUBER rep of John STAFFORD Thomas POWER, Michael DUNN and James PRENDERGAST, rep of Stephen PRENDERGAST Anastatia PARELL, rep of Richard JORDAN and lease read for the life of Francis PARLE, son of Michael PARLE of Clongaddy James MORAN rep of Joseph MORAN, John GOFF, rep of James HEELAN James DAKE AND Richard KEHOE rep of JAMES SINNOTT, 1863 (somehow I believe James could be related to my above Peter since the properties leased were adjoining. I do not have James connected in anyway at this time except we have that first name in the family). John WHEELOCK rep of John POWER and from Mountcross area leases held by William HARPER, Nicholas DEVEREUX, and John JEFFARES Hope these names might be of value to others on our list. Cathy Rossing

Can any fellow lister give me a description of the location of Ballybrennan Cemetery in County Wexford. I know it's near my HARRISON ancestors old home in Hardyglass, which is just a few kilometers north of Lake Tacumshin, but I've not been to the cemetery and would like to know the location or address and how to get there. I want to see what gravestones of my ancestors are there, including the HARRISON's of Hardyglass. Any and all responses much appreciated. With all good wishes, Jim Carey Washington, DC

The various Civil Registration Districts of the General Registrar's Office (GRO) are what used to be called the Poor Law Unions (PLU's). So - if you came from this PLU then any descendants will be found (maybe ) in the Civil Registration District of the same name I've being asked this again and again in all those mails I've received over the last few days - have you any pointers or clues as to where I should look next - how do I find this family or that, where they came from - be it a county or just somewhere in Ireland. In a way - this is a repeat of what I've said so many times over the last few years - but with bits added from what I've learned since I first began with my 'geography' and homing in on 'bulls eyes' on a dart board bits and pieces. We learn from experience, and when I made my first post back early in 1998 I think it was re the usefulness of the Irish Birth Marriage and Death indices in finding ancestors - I was only brushing the top of the pile. So many of you search for 20 years or more - and from what I read you're just going around picking up evreyone of that surname from the whole country. Anything I say here is really not going to apply to those common names for the whole country, it won't really apply either to those common names for a county - it's if you have an uncommon name or a reasonably uncommon one from the same place - then you can home in on somewhere at least. and remember these are only ideas and pointers - no matter what I say you will fnd most names somewhere in Ireland even if it's only one or two people in a whole county - that might be where your family came from and not anywhere you'll end up because of listening to me or any others. They came from Ireland and you haven't got a clue where from, and/or everyone tells you the surname is not Irish......and on top of that they left this country way back then - when there were no Civil Records - pre 1845 or 1864..... and you spend your timne reading through Parish records for everywhere and anywhere looking for some reference to that name. Or, they came from a county and you haven't got aclue what part....... There are a few things you can do. 1. You can go to one of the free look up groups on the net and ask them if someone could check the surname on a Griffiths CD...or you can buy the CD. Yes, I'm critical of the CD - the places names can be wrong - usually the county is right, sometimes the parish is listed as being in another county - but if you check out that parish you find that it spreads across two county borders...*but* if they find the surname or a variation on it - then this gives you a pointer of a place or places to begin searching to see if there are any parish records available....or now i see that the Tithe records are on CD....someone will eventually begin to offer look ups on that - have a check done as well..... The best thing though - is once you have that placename for your surname - go check out the Tithes yourself on the films wherever you are in the world.....and find out what Civil parishes were around the one you are interested in - if they spread into another county or are even in the county next door - check those as well. These people moved about - they may have lived in one parish for the Griffiths but their family may have come from the parish next door.....Civil Parishes. They may have been of a religion other than catholic, their closest church may have been in the next county - a different county, different ecclesiastical parish, different ecclesiastical Diocese. and again - they may not have leased or owned land when the Griffiths and Tithes were carried out - the bit of land they did own may bot have fitted into the categories for either valuation - so they may have been missed out. Some of you just know htat your family owned land in this place or that and have and still do since time began - and say how the Griffiths is wrong - but this may be the reason - 'outside' the terms for Griffiths. and then what do you do if they are not in griffiths - whether they should or shouldn't be....they will only have been if they had land and do any of you realise how many other occupations there were in this country - how many other people lived and worked and died here? and for no. 2 'died' is the operative word....if it can be called that. Almost everyone who left - they had family still living here, regardless of whether or not in the same place as they came from nad regardless of the fact that they moved - someone willl have lived close by.... and maybe just maybe you will be one of the lucky ones whose families actually registered a death, marriage or birth in those early years. even if the person died n the workhouse - then you are so much luckier than so many others - because workhouses - they made sure to obey the law and register those deaths! I find the GRO registers - Births,Marriages and Deaths to be the handiest things on earth to home in on an area - doesn't matter when Tom or John left.......so long as the surname is not O'Brien/Ryan/Murphy/Sullivan or a few others from Ireland the register indices will point you to somewhere - even if it is a whole county - that's smaller than the whole country.... A bull's eye on a dart board - where to begin that search - the rest of the places you find the surname - they are the other rings on the dartboard. And even with a surname which you find in a few places in Ireland - take a look at how it is spelled in the early registers - for lots of them you find that in one registration district it's spelled one way and in the other another.....and those two districts, you'll find that they are counties apart..maybe even provinces - and why are the names spelled differently? Because of phonetics and how the name was pronounced. Me - I'd home in on the place that the name was spelled same was as my original ancestor wrote it down - or whoever else heard that first person say it.....that's where I'd go - or as close to that first spelling. because - as the years go by if you are looking through all those registers you eventually begin to notice that the surnames take on a common spelling through the whole country no matter what district they are found in. and whether or not the person handing in the information could spell and read or write is irrelevant - it's how the person who writes the official registration either spells the name or hears it that counted back then. Your family came from Ireland pre the dates for civil registration - 1845 for Protestant marriages and 1864 for birhts deaths and marriages of all others.....and so you never bother with those civil indices..they're of no use to you. *But* they are, I always go for the deaths index for 1864 and the few years afterwards when I'm looking for someone. The deaths index gives the age of the person who died - and if I find that more older people died in one registration district than young people for the same surname - then I go looking for parish registers for that area. If it's all children - then that area is not my bulls eye but one of those outer rings.....the families probably moved in there from somewhere else - somewhere around there...... ----------------- If you know they came from this or that county but don't know where in the county - then the GRO indices may tell you what part. There are usually pockets of names - districts where a suname turns up more than others - and each county has more than one district associated with it. Every county has it's main district - the one you immediately think of as you run through the registers......but what about those registration districts which border counties , spread from one over to the other....... Strabane in Donegal and Tyrone - most people immediately only think of Tyrone Limerick in Clare and Limerick Carlow in Laois and carlow Ballyshannon in Leitrim, Donegal and fermanagh Lismore in Cork and Waterford Youghal in Waterford and Cork Shillelagh in Wexford and Wicklow Naas in Wicklow and Kildare i could be going through the lot for the rest of the day picking out what is common to one or more counties and that we ignore those registrations becasue we don't think of that spread from county to county in general. Using the registration indices - we can home in on a registration district, we can find out what ecclesiastical parish recrods exist for that district, we can begin to check out those. Then, we can find pocket sof the surname in different registers.....and so it works its way from there. --------------------- now - if you have two surnames from Ireland and they went to whatever part of the world together and you either don't know what part of the country or what part of a county...and you're not sure of the spelling because it is different in different documents. then even if one of those surnames is a common one - O'Brien/Ryan/Murphy from Ireland - you forget that name for the moment and home in on the not so common surname - that's what will point you to somewhere and then you try to find all those other people of the common surname in that area. if you have that unusual name - USE it You don't go to these records that I'm talking about and just because you have Tobias Sullivan - take all the info only for someone of the name Tobias - you take all the references to anyone of that surname and you list them all down, whether you are interested in the whole country or just a county. You take all people of that surname from the Death indices, the Marriage indices and the Birth indices for the first few years after they began being written up. if you have two surnames - you do the same thing with the second. Then, you sit down and look at all these peoples names, and place names that you have - the registration districts. and you look at a map of Ireland and you work out counties if you can, and if you have a decent map - then you'll see the way the counties connect...... and with one surname you begin by looking for anything you can find on the place where you have most references for. if you have two surnames - people who are supposed to have met in Ireland - then you cross off all those people who come from districts that you have only found the one surname mentioned - but before you do, you take a look at whatever map you ahve and make a guess as to whether distric A might be beside District B and if so - then these districts become the ring ourside your bulls eye - which is the district that you've found both surnames in. Now - very many of you will never find that place of origin - when you are only beginning with a surname from Ireland or a county. You will find lots of people with the same names and surnames born about the same time as the person you are looking for - and it is up to yourselve to decide whether or not to believe or adopt that person as your ancestor.....there will never be any proof either way that they were or weren't..... That sounds awful to say but it is the truth - your best bet then is to find a county where the surname was common and from there find out as much about the lives of those people as you can...... Maybe some day you will come across a reference to a really unusual first name in your lineage and maybe some day that first name will turn up somwhere that you have begun to learn about - or someone will say something like if I had a Fintan in my family tree from the mid 1800's - then county Laois is where I would home in on - regardless of where else you think that common surname is from - 'Fintan's' - they're almost all from Laois.... All small things in the jig saw puzzle which is genealogy. Lots and lots of work, little return - ah, but when you find that something, that link no matter how long you have been looking - that makes it worthwhile. Some day - someone will work their way through all the penders' 1659 survey , and the COI 1766 'census' and that shows surname distribution as well, someone else they will combine that and Griffiths and the Tithes and all the graveyard transcriptions for the whole of Ireland and all else that there is - and then we'll know more about surnames and where they were during different periods..... But until someone sits down and does all that - the rest of the someones are left wandering hither and thither around Ireland looking for those elsusive ancestors......and we'll all be someones ancestor by the time the other someone sits down Jane

Dear Jane: How would someone who lives in Canada be able to access the cemetery transcripts of Wexford which were completed by Brian Cantwell? Fifteen years ago when we were in Ireland we attempted to find the gravestones of my GOODALL and FRAYNE ancestors in the Church of Ireland graveyard at CASTLEBRIDGE. I say attempted, because all but two stones on the outer edge were completely overgrown by huge bramble bushes. There was no one at the church, and people in the general store next door could only refer us to a contact in Wexford Town, who unfortunately was away and would not return before we had to leave. Various commercial researchers, while promising to get us the information, are never heard from again. We would be very pleased if someone could tell us whether this particular cemetery was recorded and where we could obtain a copy of the transcript. Many thanks, Marjorie. Ive noticed a discussion on the Tyrone newsgroup re the value of 'Tombstones of the Omey' - value may be the wrong word - it's more is it worth buying re information....... <snip> A few counties have been done completely. Wexford, Wicklow , older graveyards in Dublin, some of Meath, Westmeath - and published. The various Heritgae centres around the country 'claim' to have transcriptions.......... Few of the people who have ever done transcribing have had funding. Brian cantwell did and it took him something like ten years to do Co. Wexford. his works were not really published - printed, bound and copies given to various Irish archival institutes - maybe a few sold to larger libraries. no great money making venture I'd guess......but he was a dedicated man.

I have been pondering this for a while. Did McCarthy's move from other counties to Wexford in order to build ships and work on the docks. Most are listed in the Peter Robinson 1825 story but not what part of Ireland they were from. Thomas McCarthy, John McCarthy a ship builder, Daniel McCarthy a boat builder. They all ended up at Sorel, Quebec. I have James Breen m Catherine Fitzsimmons and his son Peter Breen b 1814, from County Wexford, who married Johanna McCarthy 1844 in Quebec, Canada. If any of these look familiar please contact me. Beverly buckfam@thegrid.net

Andy, Regarding ROGERS surname from Ireland, if you go back to Casey Roger/s you might find something at this website. The name changed in some areas to Roger Caissie and other variations. http://www.caissy.com Carol Magee

REGISTRY OF DEEDs: DUBLIN: ABSTRACTS OF WILLS The Irish Registry of Deeds was created in 1708, any deed not registered was considered null and void. Wills registered replace some of those destroyed in the Public Records office in 1922. The wills and deeds held at the Registry office were abstracted and transcribed by P. Beryl Eustace and resulted in publication of three volumes titled Registry of Deeds, Dublin: Abstracts of Wills: Vol. 1: covering those or 1708-1745 Vol II: 1746-1785 Vol III: 1786-mid 1800's (exact date ??) In order to find the wills for the first volume alone it was necessary to read through the two entire Index of grantors series covering references to over 83,000 recorded deeds of all kinds! Wills are recorded at the Registry of Deeds in one of three ways: Full: one which was registered in the testator's own words. Narrate: recorded in the third person singular. In these wills relationships may be difficult to follow. Precis: theoretically short , but not always. The will/deed may also be referred to as the 'Memorial' All three forms usually have the name and address of the testator, the witnesses - those who signed and sealed the memorial. Transcripts may be seen at the Registry of Deeds in Dublin on payment of a fee. 18th century transcripts are on vellum, thereafter on vellum or good parchment, they are bound in large heavy books. Original memorials signed and sealed are stored in a fireproof vault. The abstracts for these volumes were made in most cases from the transcripts, any doubtful entries were checked against the original memorials. Abstracts are number in chronological order of registration, following the name and address of the testator and his occupation - if mentioned. After the date of signing comes the type and length of the memorial, plus the date of registration. All dates in volume I follow the Old Style official year which began on the 25th of March. The relatives are listed next as they are described by the testator. As mentioned wills written in third person (narrative) can be difficult to follow as to relationships. Following the relations come the names and addresses of all other legatees, trustees, executors and any outstanding legacy of general interest. Bequests to churches are included. The lands listed by the testator are then listed and the name and address of any tenants mentioned. The names of Grantors are always mentioned in those instances where it is not exactly clear where the land was located therefore, a search under the names of these grantors in the names index of Grantors in the Registry of Deeds may show more information. These are then followed by the names of Witnesses to the signing of the memorial, followed by the names of those who witness the registration of the memorial after the testators death. The number given at the end of each memorial is that of the Book, page and memorial and a certified copy of the will from which the abstract was made can be obtained if this number is quoted to the Registrar of Deeds in Dublin.

I am currently researching my wife's family tree. The core names are COOKMAN ROGERS DAVIS all of whom live / lived in the Wexford area. I am particularly looking for info on the following people; DAVIS, ABRAHAM GRUBB (late 1800's) DAVIS, THOMAS JESSOP (late 1800's) COOKMAN, NATHANIEL NARCISSUS (1827 - 17 mar 1908), married WALTER, LAURA EMMA ( ?? - 1861) son of COOKMAN, EDWARD ROGERS (?? - 1865) married HUSON, MARY ELIZABETH son of COOKMAN, NATHANIEL (?? - ??) married ELIZABETH ROGERS (?? - ??) {daughter of EDWARD ROGERS, Monart House,Enniscorthy) son of COOKMAN, EDWARD (??-1774) married to ELIZABETH BAYLEY any information would be gratefully received. Regards Andy

Maybe changed a bit from my original posting on this - Wills and Deeds: Wills are important sources of genealogical information even at times for those whose ancestors did not write a will. Every will had witnesses and at times these witnesses were simply yeomen or servants of the testator. For the person who is familiar with general surname distribution in Ireland the surnames of the witnesses and the counties in which the testator owned land can point to places where a witness as possibly from. Putting sets of wills made by people of the same surname together can possibly build up a picture of familial relationships, cousins, siblings, parents, uncles and aunts. Wills can tell such stories about the people who wrote them, the good deeds done by landlords, that not all were terrible people, the marital breakdown, the disinherited children, the attachment to servants. They can tell of the way of life of the people, the movement around the country, or, they can tell nothing more than just a few names. Not everything went up in smoke in the fire at the Four Courts in 1922, a lot did - but not everything...too much for one mail There were two types of 'Court' dealing with wills and administrations. The Consistorial and the Prerogative Courts. The Consistorial court dealt with 'local' wills and deeds - that is those which referred to property/land within the boundary of that diocese only. The Prerogative Court on the other hand dealt with a will or administration bond if it involved property which had a value of more than £5 in a second diocese. So - the wills and Administrations of the Prerogative court in general would have been those of people who were relatively wealthy and who owned property in two Dioceses or more. Pre 1858: Wills & Administrations of the Consistorial Courts. Before 1857, the Church of Ireland as the Established Church was responsible for all testamentary affairs. Each Diocese had a Consistorial Court which was responsible for granting probate to a will. Probate is the legal authentification of a will and confers on the administrators the power to administer the estate. These courts also had the power to grant letters of Administration to the next of kin or the main creditor on the estates of those who died intestate (without making a will. Each Court was responsible for it's own Diocese, but if the person owned property valued at more than £5 in another diocese then the responsibility for the will or the administration passed on to the Prerogative Court. The Prerogative Court was under the responsibility of the Archbishop of Armagh. The Wills and Administrations of each Consistorial Court were held locally until the abolition of the testamentary authority of the church in 1857. After 1857 - the Pro began to collect these from the local courts and transcribe them into Will and grant Books, these were then indexed. All the original wills were destroyed in the fire of 1922 and most of the Will and Grant Books - the Will Books for the Dioceses of Down (1850-58) ; Connor (1818-20, 1853-58) survived. Also the Grant books for the Dioceses of cashel (1840-45) ; Derry and Raphoe (1818-21) and Ossory (1848-58) survived. As did a very few original documents. The indices were not destroyed although some are badly damaged and difficult to read - pages have been repaired as best as possible. Wills are indexed alphabetically - information : the testator's address, year of probate and sometimes occupation. Administration Bonds - indexed by year and under the initial letter of the person's surname. Information: full name, sometimes address and sometimes occupation. The Prerogative Court The court which dealt with property spread over two or more Dioceses. Up to 1816 it was not held in a 'fixed' location - usually the house of the presiding Judge. From 1816 on - it was held in the King's Inn Building. Records pre 1816 can be thought of as being incomplete - it is not known if all were collected and sent to this one central place for indexing. Again, as for the records of the Consistorial Court, all original documents were transferred to the Public Records Office after 1857 and the original Wills and Grants of Administration were transcribed into Will and Grant books. These were then indexed. The originals and most of the indices were also destroyed in the fire of 1922. Post 1857 The probate Act of 1857 took away the testamentary authority of the Church of Ireland. Now - there was a Principal Registry in Dublin and eleven District Registries. The rules and administration remained something the same. The Principal Registry was the equivalent of the Prerogative Court (but it also covered Dublin and a large area around it). Again with these documents - transcripts were made of the originals. A 'Calandar of Wills and Administrations' was produced for each year, arranged alphabetically. In these 'Calandars' are found the name and address of the deceased person, where and when they died, the value of the estate, the place of Probate and the name and address of the person to whom probate was granted..the relationship of this person is also mentioned if they are related. Copies of these Calandars survive and while these date from 1858 forward it is possible to find records of those who died prior to 1858. There is a consolidated index to the period from 1858 -1877. These are to be found on the shelves in the National Archives in Dublin and the Public Records Office in Belfast. After the fire in 1922 the Public Records Office made an attempt to put together something of that which had been lost. To this effect, they requested copies of originals from anyone who would or could supply these, lawyers, families, researchers and so managed to save some of the past. There is a card index in the National Archives in Dublin - alphabetical listing material recovered. Separate card indices exist for those abstracts taken by researchers such as Thrift, Jennings, Crossley and miscellaneous donations and bequests since that time. Currently - Ancestry.com have one of their ten day freely accessible databases: this is an index to those documents.

My grandfather William John MANLEY was, we believe, born in Castleknock, County Dublin in 1862. We have, however, not been able to locate him in parish registers. His parents were John and Bridget. John died in July 1889 at Castleknock (we think), and Bridget lived on at 5 East James Street, Dublin. Any links out there? Brian Manley

Hi, I'm new to the list. My name is Sheryl. I live in Stockton, California. My great-grandmother, Elizabeth Harriet Windross was born in Wexford in 1864. Her parents were George and Frances (Williams) Windross. George died 10 Nov. 1886 and Frances died 22 Aug. 1892. Haven't had any luck on finding much more about this family. They probably weren't too popular with the neighbors -- I believe that George was a tax collector for the crown. If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them. I am planning a trip to Ireland in about 4 years when I retire, so any suggestions on things to do when I get there would also be appreciated. Thank you.

Dear Jane, I just recently signed on to the Co Wexford Digest after almost a year on the Co Cork Digest accumulating all the "Gazillion" Aherns. I have signed on to Wexford to find some record on my Great Grandfather's family FLAHERTY or O'FLAHERTY in Wexford, where in Wexford?? I read what you have been doing on the Cemeteries . HOW WONDERFUL of you, a labor of love I'd say. I do hope you realize some financial gain for all your work. Cheers From: WEXFORD-D-request@rootsweb.com Reply-To: WEXFORD-L@rootsweb.com To: WEXFORD-D@rootsweb.com Subject: WEXFORD-D Digest V99 #119 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:20:57 -0700 (PDT) << message2.txt >> << message4.txt >> << message6.txt >> << message8.txt >> << message10.txt >> << message12.txt >> << message14.txt >> << message16.txt >> << message18.txt >> Sharon from Montana ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Over the few years I have been on the net and posting as Jane O'Brien I have had occasion to rant and rave and let fly at people on newsgroups.....I'vet let fly because they don't say thanks, I've let fly because they criticise those who would share through the lists, I've let fly because I was called a name or two. I've gotten on peoples nerves, made genealogical posts, posts re history, poetry, fairies....I've defended priests, landlords, I've told of good and bad in Ireland and that we can't judge any one group by what we've heard about them in general. I've been thrown off lists, asked not to post to lists, stretched the patience of listowners... and I've always had an awful lot of mail as a reponse to what I've posted... For all that I've ever done and said on any newsgroup nothing can compare to what has been coming in to my mailbox over the last 24 hours.....personally and through the newsgroups I've mentioned the word 'gobsmacked' on the Armagh list - and been asked its meaning - basically it means words fail me, I can't think of anything to say..... except Thank You to everyone. To those of you who have tried to offer me money - I can't accept - I'm not insulted, it was very nice of you. But - there are authorities here who should have some responsibility for funding gravestone transcriptions....and once my neck is thick enough, should they refuse me I will make an awful lot of noise <g> To those of you who have mentioned setting up a web site in order that others can find what I have, and buy it from me at a reasonable cost to themselves....I have thought of that option, but it would only be in the end - when I know i have everything there is to have currently on any surname in the county. There's no point in half doing something. To those of you who have suggested I go the CD route - again that is another option but again I would only think it viable when I have completely finishished all graveyards in the county I am working, the same as for a web site. I made a post yesterday to the Armagh newsgroup re Ireland and CD's.......while 'books' on video and CD are common in other countries around the world - we haven't progressed there yet - regardless of being the European base for many IT businesses. To those of you who suggested 'sharing' through some group or other - sorry - the 'vultures' out there would take what I would give and charge others for that.....I've had too many do that to me in the past when I was making look up offers. To anyone who has asked if I am an Angel - I think the last sentence above shows that I'm not :-) To all of you who have asked re transcriptions for particular counties - much work has been done by others, some of it by Heritage centres who keep what they have guarded as they do with all other material. There is a lot to be had in the literature. I do have references for papers published in the various journals, some I already have in my indices to what these journals contain - some I haven't....so I can check those and begin to make composite lists per county and post those. I won't guarantee that whatI post will be complete though. Any I give reference to can be obtained through inter-library loan. To those who have picked up on the surname Lyons - my family comes from Galway and before that - Cork and Kerry - while I have glanced through each post I haven't noticed any links...most of what I have seen would suggest that the Lyons mentioned came from the northern counties. I will try to get back to anyone who has asked me anything - in time. But - generally - thank you to everyone who contacted me, I never expected a response such as I have had and it really is going to have me gobsmacked and quiet for a long time. Jane

Hello.... I've just recently been told my Gr. Gr. Grandfather, John O'Neill/Neill married Mary Byrne, the Parish Priest's housekeeper in Camolin, Co. Wexford. Does anyone know if Camolin is a Townland or Parish or a Barony? Am I even spelling it correctly? Any help you can give me is appreciated. Peggy Leonard/NYC

Jane, You always have so much to share. This week I saw a listing for a course, day length, on how to publish your own whatever. Couldn't help thinking of that and you and all of us waiting to find information. I don't know whether I will be able to get to that course or not, depends on what happens here in the interim ( and something is always happening even though we are retired). Will let you know what develops or if I can contact the woman who is giving the course as I think she lives in a nearby city (to me). I have my own interest from the genealogy standpoint but also someday I am going to write a mystery story. Only problem is that I am a generalist at heart so know a little bit about a lot of things and have to figure out ways to make my main livelihood or experiences an interesting setting. As I read the information you shared, I wanted you to know that we do appreciate the work you are doing and realize how much time that collecting all those names can take. Individuals are doing that on a one by one basis in the US and also there is a major project going forward that I run across from time to time. As I understand it, most of these are volunteer efforts and hope to pool that work into a major collection of graveyard inscriptions and cemetery listings with those interred. There is also a project of mapping these cemeteries and I had hoped to be involved with that in the area where my father's family is from (Sierra County, California) as there is a major problem with these isolated gravesites in that people are stealing the markers. You can walk through the areas and notice, even if you have not been there before, that a grave marker really should be in that place and it is not. Unfortunately, there seems to be no way to protect some of these places except to keep them quiet and not share unless you are very sure of the person you give the info to. And also, unfortunately, there are often ways to by-pass the towns where inhabitants would notice strangers--you know the old back way in. Anyway, thanks Jayne ( I go back and forth on how you spell your name for some reason), keep up the good work--it is an act of faith! Cathy Rossing

To those who have mailed me already - yes, I did forget to mention that I do love working gravestones, they tell me so much about the people who went before. I've been in graveyards in Kildare where I saw graves of people I knew when a small child - and had little chats with them same for my grandparents. I've stood in front of my great Grandparents grave in Donegal and thought - wow this must be something like all those people who come to Ireland searching for their ancestors feel like....amazed that I felt that way. I've sat on Dursey island down off the cork coast looking at the graves there and wondering at the fact that the mounds had not sunk in all that time, and the fact that while what I looked at were grave markers - not stones - the people had put a marker at the top and bottom of the grave - showing the size - so that even if the mound had sunk - you'd see the chidren in a row immediately - all beside one another. I think about the people as I work usually - their lives what they did, how they lived. I see them in the literature - newspaper accounts of something during the 1800's and then I find them dead....I find them in the Tithes in all sorts of things...Not all of them - but some of them. I meet a farmer taking a break from ploughing or whatever and he'll tell me all about his family whose tomb I am sitting on, the ones who'll tell me the various local 'beliefs' about the land in front of that chapel - the bones found in the field next door, the man who was buried in the corner next to the pub because he spent his life in the pub and used to joke about how the publican could empty the guiness slops onto his grave every night so he woulnd't be without his pint. I've had it said to me that I'm crazy (considering my 'chats' I may well be <g>) - that leave the dead be - what's the point in transcribing - and my reply always is why did these people put up stones in the first place if they didn't want us to remember them and something about them. The Protestant stones are always the most elaborate and praisworthy of the person who went before. I always try to excuse what I do to those who tell me I'm mad by saying I'll publish and make some money from this - but- the fact is that for any like me it will cost us a few thousand pounds to publish that 500 volumes and the profit would only be a few thousand pounds and if you think in terms of the cost and time that goes into this work - then there's absolutely no profit in it for us....we'd be better off cleaning the streets! My original post was in response to the questions I saw re 'Tombstones of the Omey' on the Tyrone newsgroup....and whether or not it would be worth the persons while to buy it because they have very little money.....and I was trying to say something about those of us who do this work. I know that I will get the money to publish what i have done, there are a few 'possible' sources of funding -and that is a big 'possible' but I'll manage to publish eventually - beg, borrow or steal as we say. Depends on my sales pitch those of you outside Ireland do not realise how little the Irish are actually interested in family History. Unlike you, we have only a handful of family history societies....in the whole of the thirty two counties (maybe two handfuls). Gravestone works - they vary - Brian Cantwell worked stones to 1880 and any related t those he was reading - some others go to 1900 - these cut off dates being based on the fact that most RC registers which have been filmed had a cut off date of 1880....so whoever was buried by then was probably to be found if at all on film. The 1900 date is based on registers and the fact that the 1901 census is available. When I began initially - I stuck to the 1900 date except in those really small graveyards and then I began to realise the value of the more modern stones. Parish registers aren't open post 1900, and anyone who was born post 1911 would never be known to the searchers unless they already had all the names......not until the 1921 census is made available. On post 1900 stones you see who was born in 1912 and died in 1945..you get more names from a family. So, if you can get information pre 1900 on the greatgrandparents and you can find the grandparents in the 1901 or 1911 census - and you can find them dead and buried in some graveyard - you have more information. Plus, while the wifes' maiden name may not be on the stone, you can give a guess at approximate age at marriage and go hunting for a marriage entry - giving you her maiden name and then you go hunting for her family. Using gravestone information - for a whole county - you can see surname distribution, how it's changed n time, you can track them - where they came from maybe, where they went to - when a concentration of a surname happens close to a county border then you can head into th enext county and see what the distribution is like in the parish next door All a jig saw. Publishers and most others do not recognise the value of modern stones, the idea is to cut most things down to size....and let the rest of you go hunting for whatever you can in the census and registers...... Cost of publishing goes up the more you have in any volume - decreasing the number of publications - or increasing the cost to the author and the buyer. If there is a publication - it is usually on only a part of a county - a part you may not be interested in - why buy it? What I was getting at in my last post is that for any county, all publications should be of value to any researcher in that county because when you put the lot together you get the big picture..... But - to buy all costs money - and regardless of what I have said you may find nothing of value to you in it. The fewer people interested in graveyard publications - the higher the cost to us, the authors.....*But* outside ireland you have all these Family History Societies......and genealogical groups of one sort or another....and in whatever groups you are a member of you may know someone else interested in that county - maybe more than one - so - the solution would be to divide the cost of a publication between yourselves. The more interest the easier it would be for us to publish and sell......... It's not simple to say let every family history society buy each publication becasue each society has so many interests in so many counties in Ireland and so many countries in the world and there are so many publications of everything.......But to find one person as well as yourself interested - maybe more, then it can be feasible. There are also so many family surname newsgroups - and so many surnames are common to particular counties. Groups buying a publication between themselves - to share in a family newsletter..... There are solutions and these solutions would increase the 'popularity' of graveyard publications and then once that happens more and more work would be done and the value of graveyards recognised so that County Councils in ireland and Duchas and anyone else who has a responsibility for graveyards would begin to recognise them for what they are...... Antiquities which should be preserved - not talked about - not guarded and let rot - sources of genealogical and historical information. Maybe then the ones which people like me can't clean up, dig out would be unearthed and preserved.....and recorded in the future for posterity. Jane

I've noticed a discussion on the Tyrone newsgroup re the value of 'Tombstones of the Omey' - value may be the wrong word - it's more is it worth buying re information....... and I'd like to pass a few comments - to all the groups I am sunscribed to re transcribing gravestones and the publications which may or may not ensue....from the viewpoint of a transcriber and how I see them of value to those of you who search. I've read in the past how graveyards and the stones there in are of little genealogical value. I have to say that yes, for the most part if you are looking for information from the 1700's and early 1800's - then yes, gravestones will only be of value to those of you who had family rich enough and educated enough to put up a stone. Even then, if they did - a lot depends on the weather conditions in the area, how exposed the graveyard was and whether or not the inscription on the stone has withstood the test of time. *But* having said that - I see you all looking for gravestones in a particular area....that which your ancestors came from....way back then.....and it all boils down to what I have said since I first began posting on any newsgroup Geography - nad how you have your ancestors *penned in* nice little fences around those townlands.....keep em all there and Bob's your Uncle. They moved around, they travelled, they spread from townland to townland, parish to parish, county to county - and maybe all within a small radius but these people *moved* I am working and have worked the graveyards of Co. Laois - the earliest stone I've found is dated late 1670's 0r 80's - and only one of those. A good few 1700's but then when we get into the 1800's the numbers increase. i know the differences betwen Laois and other counties which people like myself have transcribed - and published.....Laois is not exceptional in the age of it's stone - really the bigest numbers for anywhere begin in the 1800's. You'll find earlier more like in the northern counties. What I also know and can see is how the people spread - i haven't got all that many names in my transcriptions compared to some counties where the same number of stones have been worked...it looks like our graveyards were all smaller On a stone - when the people were god enough to put place of origin on - they say late of X and then if you go to X you can see the same family there - or they may have put wife of X who is interred in Y and you go to Y and find himelf and the rest of his family. it may be 'erected by X of Y in memory of his father - so then you know where the son or daughter ended up living and can track their descendants from then on. That's just one point about looking at all graveyards. The other is that for every townland - there may have been more than one graveyard in the surrounding civil parishes.....and townland is irrelevant to where they went to be buried from what I can see......it may have to do with religion..the church in whichever parish they attended and it does not have to be the religious parish of the name of the civil parish from which they were from - or even the religious parish of the Union from which they were from. I once met a lady in a graveyard in a town in Kildare - she told me she was from Cork - had lived in this co. Kildare town for the last 40 years - but she was from cork and that's where she would be buried. The attitude of many......so while your direct ancestors may hve come from A, B or C - that's not to say that their parents actually originated there - and they may have gone home to be buried - wherever home was. Looking at Laois alone - the main graveyard for Portarlington is in co. Offaly. There is a graveyard on the borders of Co. Kilkenny which is in Co. Laois and it's full of Co. Kilkenny people - I can't remember the name off hand. Then another on the border with Co. Carlow and it's full of people from carlow and Laois... and if I was one of you - looking for someone from Portarlington, Co. Kilkenny or Carlow - it would never dawn on me to go searching thru graveyard information from Co. Laois...or thru that from co. Offaly for Laois info. At least not for the majority of you - because you don't know the geography of the area. My point being here is that you can possibly find family in any graveyard in any county - regardless of religion up to the late 1800's. There's something else to be considered also - i've asked people about parishes and parishes - civli and ecclesiastical and whether you can understand the info as published. i had intended getting back to my reply to those who replied - but I've lost all my mail again. however, the churches and graveyards, burial grounds you see on the current Discovery series OS maps - they may be medieval churches - they may have been used by catholics and Protestants alike. They may have fallen down and had a protestant church built on top of them.....the familiy mihgt have been buried there forever and so even when the religion of the church changed - they may continue to be buried there - from whereever they have spread to throughout the county/country. All that is just to add to the complications of finding your Irish ancestors and the state of our parish records..... But - to my mind - Graveyard transcriptions are very important - regardless of how many were buried in the early years. All you need is that one - the one stone which you can say - "Hey - that's one of mine" for......it can give you a driection for parish records while you search aimlessly through everything you can find on a county 'cos you just know your family came from that county. That's how important gravestones are to you the searchers. Now - then we get to the likes of me who transcribes......and there aren't very many of us in this country. The value of gravestones and graveyards is not recognised. A few counties have been done completely. Wexford, Wicklow , older graveyards in Dublin, some of Meath, Westmeath - and published. The various Heritgae centres around the country 'claim' to have transcriptions.......... Few of the people who have ever done transcribing have had funding. Brian cantwell did and it took him something like ten years to do Co. Wexford. his works were not really published - printed, bound and copies given to various Irish archival institutes - maybe a few sold to larger libraries. no great money making venture I'd guess......but he was a dedicated man. Like the rest of us are - and interested in doing the job properly or not at all. I have maybe 50 graveyards done, some with only a few stones visible, my county needs to get it's act together....gravestones and graveyards are protected - therefore let them rot rather than let someone work them or clean themup - I'm a cynic...please don't anyone say anything to me about not touching gravestones and their preservation - this is ireland and preserving means letting lie and suffer from the weather - don't say anything to me about kicking up a fuss either - we bang our heads off brick walls regularly in this country. me - I have no funding - it comes out of my own pocket. in one week alone last summer I drove 1000 miles. I worked from dawn till dusk....... and as an example - i spent 7 hours in one graveyard cleaning stones, and transcribing....a big graveyard so lots of walking from stone to stone as well. For that seven hours I had three-4 hours of tapes to type up. Each hour of tape took me a minimum of two hours typing - I ended up with approximately 300 names from that graveyard. Those three hundred names took me another 2-3 hours of typing while I indexed them....... and I still have to go back to that graveyard and check that what I have typed is correct - for each stone. and for what - the pleasure of paying a publisher to publish what I have done - or else my alternative is to go to the Archaeological/historical/genealogical Journals and say - here's a publication for you - spread it around. Where am I going to get the money to pay a publisher - I don't know. Why do I have to pay a publisher - because there's not much interest in Graveyard transcriptions....... how many publications will I be able to afford - maybe 500 if i'm lucky... and then - I will see people on the net posting the results of my work to all and sundry....yes. Will that encourage me to continue - no. Will it encourage any more who come along and may thing that this is something which is needed for any county - no. Will it help any of you in the long run - no so - we bang our heads off brick walls here in Ireland and we do so again internationally - on the net with those who search. and we don't even know we're doing it. I admire Cynithia Russell for recognising the work that has gone into production of 'Tombstones of the Omey' for recognising the value of that work - both to author and those who search. It is one thing to give information from something which is out of print but absolutely another thing to quote from that of a valid obtainable publication. Jane

Hi my name is Melinda Baker, I am searching for any information I can get on my Great Grandfather Thomas Henry Cox who was born June 26, 1832 in Wexford County, Ireland and came to the states about 185? he was naturalized in 1856 in De Kalb County Illinois. Any information would be help full as we have no information about his parents or siblings as he may have been disinherited. ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Re: Anastasia Unfortunately, this is NOT an uncommon first name for girls in nineteenth-century/early twentieth-century Co. Wexford (or, indeed, in most of Ireland) Therefore, to rely on it as a "family name" might not be sound methodology in your genealogical research. Anastasia was frequently abbreviated as Anti or Anty in parish registers. Almost every family seems to have had one ;-) My father, born in 1902, had an Aunt Anty! In this century the preferred abbreviation was/is Statia.

Anastasia is not as uncommon as you may think. There are many listings of 'Anastasia' or 'Anastatia' in the Civil Registration Death Records. My own sister's middle name was 'Anastasia' and I always wondered why until I started my research. Milli