Hi Fred, Yes, that's the line as I have it. Not only Thomas (the plumber) moved from Hungerford to the Cookham area, but his brother James who married Nancy Medden did also. James and Nancy had a son William Westall, b. 1796 (one who you can't find in the 1841 and ff. censuses, by the way: was he deported?). How I got into the Hungerford Westalls was that I was looking for the family of William Wastell who married Agatha Whalley in 1822 at St. Pancras, London. The reason I looked at the Cookham Westells is that Thomas's son John, a physician, is listed as a Wastell in the 1881 census, retired and living next door in Cookham to Agatha Wastell, who was by then the 45- year widow of William Wastell, the proprietor of the Hoxton Madhouse. Some have thought because of John and Agatha's proximity in this census (it seems unlikely that it would be a coincidence) that they were related. I know other Wastell seekers of this particular William Wastell who have felt the same. John Wastell (so-called in the 1881 census) is called John Westall or Westell everywhere else. I wondered whether James and Nancy's William Westall, b. 1796 could be my William Wastell, a cousin of John's. So I went back and did the genealogy back to William and Mary Chilvester, which you have seen, Fred, and you said it pretty much agreed with yours. Another researcher thought that another William Westall, chr. 10 Aug. 1788, Hungerford (son of Edward Westall and Ann Burch, Edward being another brother of Thomas Westall the plumber). This William Westall is closer to the age of my William Wastell, but he married a Caroline ? from Bath, Somerset, and they are in the early censuses, by which time my William Wastell had died. So this is not correct. (My William Wastell married first Louisa Miles, daughter of Sir Jonathan Miles, but she died, and then he married Agatha.) Eventually I contacted descendants of William Madhouse Wastell and found his death announcement in the Times, giving his age. So he was born about 1789 and died in 1836 at age 47. He is not directly related to the Hungerford Westalls it seems to me. He probably belongs to my clan of Wastells (John Wastell and Ann Mayhew) who were silkweavers in Spitalfields. There are two William Wastells b. c. 1788 unaccounted for in that clan. The other possibility is that he came from up north. There was an older William Wastell from Yorkshire living in London, and hho died about the right time and his son and heir was a William Wastell. I have done just about all I can on this, and it's still at the stage of not proven. I also looked at Richard and William Westall the artists for a number of reasons. William Westall went to Australia as ship's artist on The Independent with Matthew Flinders. The ship foundered on the coast of Aus., and he ended up going to China and other places. Three of William and Agatha's sons emigrated to Australia. You see how we chase up all these possible links! A small item maybe not of much interest is that William McGrath, the artist, was boarding in London with the daur-in-law of William and Agatha (Augustus's wife) in the 1881 census. Also William Westall and his wife Ann were having their children in St. Pancras around this time. You feel there are connections, but they don't quite gel. The Wastells came with William the Conqueror from Normandy in the 1100s. They settled in Westmorland, but spread throughout the country with pockets in many counties. I have traced much of the genealogy of the Wastells of London, Kent, and Shropshire. Others have looked at Yorkshire. Someone has followed the Coventry Wastells. In the mid to late 1400s John Wastell the Master stonemason was born, someone says in Kent (but no proof); he seems to have lived in Bury St. Edmunds. He spread his genius in many churches where he worked. In the 1600s the Wastells reached their zenith in John Wastell of Scorton (moved from Westmorland to Yorkshire), who was in the rump parliament of Cromwell. Until then the Wastells married nobility. The Westmorland Wastells owned land in Dunstable and Northampton. John Wastell and Simon Wastell (the headmaster of the Free School at Northampton) were there in the 1500s. Both came from Westmorland but were probably not closely related (i.e., not cousins). John Wastell of Northampton's sons Thomas (heir) and William Wastell, a mercer (in the early 1600s) were business men and lived in London. Thomas's family were decimated by the Black Death in St Peter Cornhill in London in 1625. He lost his wife and children and married Deborah Whaley, who had lost her husband and children the same way. Thomas took over being the landlord of the Mermaid Tavern. There is a chance that the Spitalfield line of Wastells came from the Northampton line. I can make a reasoned case for it, but because of the gap in records it can never be proven, I think. Many Wastells I have met from this clan were told by relatives that these Wastells in Spitalfield were Huguenots (as so many silkweavers were), but I believe they were born in England and had been there a long time. They were from France, but centuries before the Huguenots. The Normans were Vikings of course, the smartest, most cultured people of their day (in the West). I hope this has been of interest to you. Sorry if I bored you! Gill Wastell Ford On 01/10/2008, at 6:47 PM, Fred Westall wrote: > Hi Gillian, > > It's very nice to hear from you again. It'll be good to confirm > notes with > you on this particular Westall branch. > > I have a Thomas Westall (bap. 2 Jul 1766, Hungerford) mar. Mary Heuse > (b.1775, Bisham Berks) on 5 Jun 1801 in Cookham, Berks. > I have 7 children for them, some being Westall and some being Westell. > Could this be another Westell variant? > Thomas's parents were William Westall (b.1736) and Anne Savage (b. > 1734) who > married 9 Jun 1760 in Hungerford. They had 6 children all born in > Hungerford. > William's father was Edward Westall (b. 1697, Hungerford) who married > Elizabeth? They had 9 children. > Edwards parents were Edward Westall (b.1664, Hungerford) and > Elizabeth Head > who married 4 Oct 1694 in Ashbury. > Edward's parents were William Westall and Mary Chilvester who had 5 > children. Edward's bro. was William Westall (1673, Chute) who married > Martha King on 17 Oct 1699 in Chute, Wilts. > > Your family line (Wastell) is very interesting. First you managed to > beat > all of us by transposing the 'a' and the 'e' (;o)), and secondly > didn't your > ancestors come to London via Hertfordshire and have a few artists of > their > own? The Westall artists (Richard and William) originated in Norfolk > and > then moved to Hertfordshire. I think there's a slim possibility the > famous > artists may well be connected with your branch and that your branch > may well > be connected with mine. Just a thought. I'd be proud to have you > as a > cousin ;0) > > Once the connections between the artist Westall's the Wiltshire > Westall's > and the Wastell's are established then our family tree will suddenly > expand > dramatically! Just the lancashire westall's (around Bradford/ > Oswaldwistle) > to connect and I think we've got all the UK Westall's... Just a > thought and > a challenge for all Westall's out there. > > Fred > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Gillian Ford" <gford1@bigpond.net.au> > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:01 AM > To: <westall@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Mark Westall b ca. 1705 > b.1673 >> Dear Fred: You know that Richard Westall and his brother came from >> Norwich. You and I have been in touch over the Hungerford Westalls >> two >> of whom went to Cookham/Maidenhead. Their ancestor was William >> Westall >> and Mary Chilvester. In the 1851 census, Thomas is still alive (b. >> 1766) and it says he comes from Fairford, Gloucester. Yet, he came >> from the Hungerford line of Westalls who are traceable back 200 >> years. >> It's hard to see that it could be a mistake. Did he know something we >> don't? >> >> Gill (Wastell) Ford >> >> On 01/10/2008, at 5:45 PM, Fred Westall wrote: >> >>> Hi Christine, >>> I've been in touch with a descendant of the Westall artists (Richard >>> Westall) and so far we have not found a definite link between our >>> respective >>> branches. It's possible there is a connection via William Westall >>> (b.1638) >>> who married Mary Chilvester (b.1638). Mary's parents were Edmund >>> Chilvester >>> (b.1610) and Mary Clidsdale (b. 1612) who married 29 Jul 1632 in >>> Hungerford. >>> The Westall artists line is very interesting and there are quite a >>> few >>> Reverends as well as the Wilfred Westall, the Bishop of Crediton in >>> that >>> line. In fact Bishop Wilfred Westall's line can be traced back to >>> 1066 and >>> all that! So let's hope the connection is made in due course. >>> Fred >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Christine Charles" <chris1@bigpond.net.au> >>> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 10:59 PM >>> To: <westall@rootsweb.com> >>> Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Mark Westall b ca. 1705 >>> >>>> HI again >>>> >>>> Do you think that the painter was related to us Fred? >>>> Wouldn't that be wonderful to find out >>>> >>>> He certainly didn't pas any of his talent to me though >>>> >>>> LOLL >>>> >>>> Christine >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Fred Westall" <fred_westall@msn.com> >>>> To: <westall@rootsweb.com> >>>> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:05 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Mark Westall b ca. 1705 >>>> >>>> >>>>> Eileen, >>>>> >>>>> I know Australian's are VERY pleased when they find convicts in >>>>> the >>>>> family. >>>>> It's a bit like us poms feel when we find we are related to Diana >>>>> (which >>>>> I'm >>>>> not, by the way!). >>>>> William Westall was transported to NSW for his part in the >>>>> Berkshire >>>>> 'Swing' >>>>> Riots. He was arrested in Kintbury and convicted at Reading >>>>> Assizes on 27 >>>>> Dec 1830. He got a Life sentence (one of four that day I >>>>> believe). He >>>>> sailed on the Prison Hulk, Eleanor from Portsmouth on 15 Feb 1831 >>>>> and was >>>>> finally freed on 9 Nov 1837 after serving just 7 years. It's not >>>>> clear >>>>> what happened after that but he was 20 at the time of his >>>>> deportation >>>>> which >>>>> would give him a dob of about 1810. The only William Westall I >>>>> can't >>>>> account for was the son of Thomas Westall (b.1770) and Sarah Bray >>>>> (b.1766). >>>>> William was baptised on 16 Nov 1806 in Baydon which makes him a >>>>> bit old - >>>>> but possibly still our wayward lad. This would make him my 3rd >>>>> cousin 5 >>>>> times removed. There are a couple of other possible candidates, >>>>> but this >>>>> is >>>>> the only one I can't account for after 1830. >>>>> Hope this helps. >>>>> >>>>> William Westall ARA was the brother of Richard Westall RA the >>>>> famous >>>>> painter >>>>> (who also taught Queen Victoria to paint in watercolour). >>>>> William was >>>>> on >>>>> the pioneering Flinders expedition to map Australia and he painted >>>>> the >>>>> first >>>>> landscape pictures of the continent. There is even a Mount >>>>> Westall named >>>>> after him situated on the north-eastern side of Shoalwater Bay in >>>>> Queensland. I'm told it's a very remote place but if we design a >>>>> special >>>>> Westall flag do you think you could please pop up there to plant >>>>> it? >>>>> ... >>>>> just kidding! ^_^ >>>>> >>>>> Fred >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "J & E Armstrong" <ellmay1@bigpond.com> >>>>> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 2:51 AM >>>>> To: <westall@rootsweb.com> >>>>> Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Mark Westall b ca. 1705 >>>>> >>>>>> Bob >>>>>> I have Sarah b 1733, Charity b 1738 and Mary b 1740 as Appleford >>>>>> sisters >>>>>> of >>>>>> Jane Appleford married to Richard Westall b 1730. >>>>>> I wish there weren't so many duplications of christian names in >>>>>> large >>>>>> Westall families. >>>>>> Whilst I am here I have two transported Westalls to offer.... 1 >>>>>> William >>>>>> Westall aboard the "Eleanor" in 1831 to Sydney and also Richard >>>>>> Westall >>>>>> in >>>>>> 1835 aboard the "Lord William Bentwick" to Tasmania. >>>>>> Both committed crimes associated with the farmworkers riots in >>>>>> that >>>>>> era.. >>>>>> I have not been able to locate family for them , or Henry Westall >>>>>> either. >>>>>> Henry doesn't feature in muJohn Appleford Westall family. >>>>>> >>>>>> Eileen >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>> the >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>> the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message