Bob, Sorry, did not mean to give you extra trouble. I had Phyllis Mary and Ure WESTALL's birth registration details already, but not from FreeBMD, as you say. Found them at Ancestry when I was a subscriber. Yes, Highbury is a sub-district of Islington. My mother went to Highbury Hill High School. My aunt Ure is still alive and kicking, so I have not published any details about her to the list, that is why I did not give her birth registration details. Jeannie Brigden WESTALL was born 1909, Phyllis Mary 1916, Ure 1925 - a gap of 16 years between first and last, as you say. No other children that I know about, future FreeBMD updates may show another one/two who died very young. Bearing in mind what I have been told about children of Arthur WESTALL and Jane Bigmore BRIGDEN, that there were 5 children born and only 2 survived, due to a specific problem, there may have been a similar problem with my grandparents - who knows now? 1921 census, I believe, took out the question about children born to the marriage.You may be interested in the following, my grandparents ran the Army and Navy, Gertrude carried on for a few years after Thomas died. London Gazette Issue 34402 published on the 28 May 1937. P 3474 THOMAS BRIGDEN WESTALL, Deceased. Pursuant to the Trustee Act, 1925. NOTICE is hereby given that all creditors and other persons having any debts claims or demands against the estate of the above named deceased late of The Army & Navy Public House Matthias Road Islington in the county of London Licensed Victualler who died on the 28th day of March 1937 and probate of whose Will was on the 18th day of May 1937 granted out of the Principal Probate Registry to Gertrude Westall the sole executrix therein named are hereby required to send particulars in writing of their debts claims or demands to the undersigned the Solicitors for the said executrix on or before the third day of August 1937 after which date the said executrix will proceed to distribute the assets of the said deceased amongst the persons entitled thereto having regard only to the debts claims and demands of which she shall then have had notice and she will not be liable for the assets of the said deceased or any part thereof so distributed to any person or persons of whose debts claims or demands she shall not then have had notice.— Dated this 27th day of May 1937. HANBURY, WHITTING and INGLE, 62, New Broad Street, London, E.C.2, Solicitors for the Executrix. His will was not very interesting, being written 4 Jul 1917, 20 years before he died. 'This is the last Will and Testament of me Thomas Brigden Westall. I leave and bequeath all that I possess to my wife Gertrude Westall and appoint her to be sole executrix of this my will.' That's it! And I paid good money for it! Gross value was £493 - 8- 3 Margaret > From: bobatbmw@cox.net > To: margaretjanew@hotmail.com > Subject: RE: Amelia Westall > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:51:29 -0500 > > Margaret, > > I have been trying to bring up both your mother and Aunt Ure in Free BMD on > Rootsweb with no success. For Ure I finally went and looked at every sheet > and found her. > > Please note the record shows Ure as being born in Islington. Is Highbury a > section of Islington? > > For Phyllis Mary Westall I did the same and finally found on the Free BMD. > It is funny that neither showed up by doing the normal search? Were there > other siblings as that is a lot of time between 3 children about 10 years or > so? > > Regards > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Margaret Wilkinson [mailto:margaretjanew@hotmail.com] > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 10:47 AM > To: bobatbmw@cox.net; westall@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: Amelia Westall > > > > Bob, Thanks for lookinfg for Amelia WESTALL for me. > > The problem with the other two Amelia's is that the year of birth is out, > and they both have middle names, which I would expect them to use when they > married as well. > > Amelia WESTALL, daughter of Thomas John WESTALL, was born Dec qtr 1872, as > you say. > Births Pancras > WESTALL Amelia > Dec qtr 1872 Vol 1b p71 > > Sorry, I got confused - I thought that Amelia was not with her parents in > 1901 census, but checking back, she is, as you say, living with parents and > single. So 1911 census is correct, but I do wonder who the other Amelia > was, who married John AVIS/DAVIS in 1893, and who is 28 yrs old in 1901. > > I no longer have access to censuses, so cannot trace this Amelia further > back. > > 1901 > John Davis, Head, Mar, M, 28, General labourer, Worker, London, Newington > Amelia Davis, Wife, Mar, F, 28, London, Boro > Elizabeth Davis, Daur, F, 3, London, Bermondsey > Martha Davis, Daur, F, 0, London, Bermondsey > Address Bermondsey > Class: RG13; Piece: 389; Folio: 66; Page: 15 > > 2 births later on, would appear to be further children of John and Amelia > > Births Camberwell > AVIS Florence M, MMN Westall > Jun qtr 1913 Vol 1d p1501 > > AVIS Gertrude M, MMN Westall > Mar qtr 1915 Vol 1d p1630 > > I can now publish full 1911 details, the beta site requested that this was > not done. > > 1911 > Thomas J Westall, Head, 74, M, Married 56 yrs, 7 child - 3 living, 4 died, > Boot Dealer, Employer, Mdlex, London, St Giles > Mary Westall, Wife, 73, F, Married, Midex, London, St Pauls > Amelia Westall, Daur, 38, F, Sing, (House added in pencil) Worker, At Home, > Midex, London, St Panc > 6 rooms in dwelling > Signed Thomas John Westall > 129, Cromer Street, W.C. (131 added in pencil) > RG14PN700 RG78PN24 RD9 SD2 ED17 SN465 > > Richard Frary, Head, 39, M, Married under 1 yr, 0 children, Butcher, > Employer, New Cross, Surrey > Jane Bigmore Frary, Wife, 44, F, Married under 1 yr, 0 children, Licensed > Victualler, Employer, At Home, St Pancras, Middlesex (South Norwood Hotel > added in pencil) > John Edward Warrell, Serv, 50, M, Married 23 yrs, 2 children born and > living, Licensed Victualler Manager, Worker, St Albans, Herts > Florence McEwen, Serv, 27, F, Sing, Barmaid, Worker, London > Lilian Moore, Serv, 21, F, Sing, Barmaid, Worker, Croydon, Surrey > Ethel E S Castle, Serv, 31, F, Married 10 yrs, 3 children born and living, > Cook, Lewisham, Kent > Mabel Hoare, Serv, 21, F, Sing, Housemaid, Hampreston, Dorset > 12 rooms in dwelling > Signed Richard Frary > Address 32, Station Rd, South Norwood > RG14PN3381 RG78PN127 RD39 SD4 ED14 SN7 > > (Jane Bigmore BRIGDEN, first husband was Arthur WESTALL,they were my great > grandparents, Thomas Brigden WESTALL was their son) > > > Thomas Brigden Westall, Head, 25, M, Married, Journalist, Newspaper, Worker, > London, St Pancras > Gertrude Westall, Wife, 24, F, Married 2 yrs, 1 child born and living, > Surrey, Croydon > Jeannie Brigden Westall, Daur, 2, F, Surrey, Croydon > 5 rooms in dwelling > Signed Thomas Brigden Westall > Address 42, Sutherland Rd, Brighton > RG14PN5114 RG78PN226 RD79 SD1 ED26 SN69 > > > My Aunt Jeannie Brigden WESTALL was born in Croydon in 1909, my mother > Phyllis Mary WESTALL was born and brought up in Highbury - > > Birth Islington > WESTALL Phyllis Mary, MMN Hyde > Dec qtr 1916 Vol 1b p522 > > The 3rd and last child, my aunt Ure, was born 1925, also in Highbury. > > Brigden and Ure are both 'family' names passed from generation to generation > - no younger generations use the Ure now, that I know of, but Brigden still > used as middle name by one of my brother's and a cousin. > > Margaret > > > From: bobatbmw@cox.net > To: margaretjanew@hotmail.com > Subject: FW: Amelia Westall > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:24:37 -0500 > > > Margaret, > > I tried to send this to WESTALL@rootsweb.com and it was denied? > I am therefore sending it directly to you. > > Bob > > > From: Bob Westall > [mailto:bobatbmw@cox.net] > > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 12:52 PM > > To: WESTALL@rootweb.com > > Subject: Amelia Westall > > Margaret, > When I sent you the email last night I left off some info. > that I meant to include. > > Anyway the three Amelia Westall born between 1865 and 1875 > Were: > > Births Jun 1865 (>99%) > WESTALL > Amelia Ann > Kensington > 1a 174 > > Births Dec 1872 (>99%) > WESTALL > Amelia > Pancras > 1b 71 > > Births Jun 1875 (>99%) > Westall > Amelia Emily > Pancras > 1b 198 > > I believe the middle Amelia is the daughter of Thomas John > Westall. > > > You mention your aunt Jeannie Brigden Westall in the 1911 > census but when I tried to find other children whose mother was named Hyde I > came with no other siblings. Was your mother born in Croydon as was your > aunt? > > There were two other Westall children born in Croydon before > 1930 but their mother’s maiden name was Hook? > > > Births Sep 1921 (>99%) > Westall > William H > Hook > Croydon > 2a 433 > > Births Sep 1922 (>99%) > Westall > Bertha J > Hook > Croydon > 2a 420 > > > Yes, genealogy does get confusing at times. > Regards > Bob > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Imagine a life without walls. 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