Fred, You mentioned that Ernest is the grandson of Henry Westall b 1827. I would agree with that as Ernest shows in the 1881 census as a grandson to Henry! By the process of elimination it would seem there were two chances at Ernest parenthood by the ages of Henry's children. The only male offspring I have was Richard and he was only 16 in the 1881 census? Two daughters old enough were Elizabeth m 1880 to Henry John Chivers and Sarah Ann m 1881 to William John Rushen. What would be your thoughts on this one? I show Harry Westall b 07 Jul 1889 Axford, Ramsbury, Wiltshire, Eng but do not have parents for him either?. Can you help on this one also? Harry m Rose Ann Stagg 05 Dec 1914 and had Harry Martin Westall 04 Dec 1916 Fulham, Wiltshire, Eng. In the 1901 census Harry is 11 and shows as a Visitor at the home of Elizabeth Chivers? 1901 England Census Name: Elizabeth Chivers Age: 46 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855 Relation: Head Gender: Female Where born: Axford, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish: Preshute Ecclesiastical parish: Marlborough St Mary County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street address: London Rd Occupation: Charwoman Condition as to marriage: Widow Registration district: Marlborough Sub registration district: Marlborough ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 127 Elizabeth Chivers Head..Wd..46..Charwoman............Witls, Axford Henry J Chivers Son...S....17..Gardiner's Laborer..Wilts, Marlborough Harry Westall Visitor...S....11.................................Wilts, Axford Thanks again for any assist you can give? Bob E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version: 5.11770 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/

Bob, My data shows Elizabeth (b.1853) as unmarried. However, I've just noticed she had a son Edward Westall (b.1879) - if so that seems to eliminate her as Ernest's (1879) mum? Or maybe I've just got my Ernest's and Edward's mixed up (like my John's and Jack's). Sarah Ann (1859) I also have as unmarried. I know that William Rushen married a Sarah Westall - actually there are two: 1. Dec 1870, Hungerford, 2c, 529 (Sarah) 2. Mar 1881, Hungerford, 2c, 333 (Sarah Ann) I agree that the second one looks possible, but we'll need a marriage certificate to be sure as I have several other Sarah Ann Westall's in the Hungerford area as possibilities. Also I think that Ramsbury may be in the Marlborough registration district, rather than Hungerford RD? I'll need to check that. I agree with you that Richard would be a bit young to father Ernest ... but maybe not! My data shows Harry Westall (1889) as the base-born of Mary Westall (1869-1950). She was unmarried at death. Oliver Westall is descended from this Harry Westall, so is an honorary Westall (aren't we all?). Mary's parents were Henry and Eliza Pike. harry Westall was born 7 Jul 1889 in Ramsbury and married Rose Amelia Stagg (b.19 Apr 1889, Stepney London) 1n 1914 in Pancras, London. Harry Martin Westall was born 4 Dec 1916 in Torbay, Devon. So we have a slight difference of opinion there. Harry married Doris Oliver (b.1917) in 1941 in Kerrier RD, Devon. Fred -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Westall" <bobatbmw@cox.net> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:51 PM To: <westall@rootsweb.com> Subject: [WESTALL] Ernest Westall b 1879 > Fred, > > > > You mentioned that Ernest is the grandson of Henry Westall b 1827. I > would > agree with that as Ernest shows in the 1881 census as a grandson to Henry! > By the process of elimination it would seem there were two chances at > Ernest > parenthood by the ages of Henry's children. The only male offspring I > have > was Richard and he was only 16 in the 1881 census? Two daughters old > enough > were Elizabeth m 1880 to Henry John Chivers and Sarah Ann m 1881 to > William > John Rushen. > > > > What would be your thoughts on this one? > > > > I show Harry Westall b 07 Jul 1889 Axford, Ramsbury, Wiltshire, Eng but do > not have parents for him either?. Can you help on this one also? Harry m > Rose Ann Stagg 05 Dec 1914 and had Harry Martin Westall 04 Dec 1916 > Fulham, > Wiltshire, Eng. In the 1901 census Harry is 11 and shows as a Visitor at > the home of Elizabeth Chivers? > > > > 1901 England Census > > > > Name: Elizabeth Chivers > > Age: 46 > > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855 > > Relation: Head > > Gender: Female > > Where born: Axford, Wiltshire, England > > Civil Parish: Preshute > > Ecclesiastical parish: Marlborough St Mary > > County/Island: Wiltshire > > Country: England > > Street address: London Rd > > Occupation: Charwoman > > Condition as to marriage: Widow > > Registration district: Marlborough > > Sub registration district: Marlborough > > ED, institution, or vessel: 10 > > Neighbors: View others on page > > Household schedule number: 127 > > > > Elizabeth Chivers Head..Wd..46..Charwoman............Witls, Axford > > Henry J Chivers Son...S....17..Gardiner's Laborer..Wilts, > Marlborough > > Harry Westall > Visitor...S....11.................................Wilts, Axford > > > > Thanks again for any assist you can give? > > > > Bob > > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) > Database version: 5.11770 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Fred, It is a very interesting discussion and I know you have a great deal more info than I do! The following is what I have on Elizabeth Westall b 10 Jul 1853 Axford, Wilts m Henry John Chivers b Bet. Jan - Mar 1853 d Bet. Jan - Mar 1899 both in Wiltshire. In all the census her age is about correct and of course she was born in Axford. In the 1901 census please note she is living with her son Henry J Chivers b Oct - Dec 1883 Hungerford and a visitor Harry Westall age 11 b 07 Jul 1889 also in Axford? There were two Elizabeth Westall b ca. 1852 - 1853. They are as follows: Births Jun 1852 (>99%) Westall Elizabeth Hungerford 2c 204 Births Sep 1853 (98%) WESTALL Elizabeth Hungerford 2c 200 I show the 1852 Elizabeth as the daughter to George Westall and Elizabeth Spanswick. Info on Elizabeth 1853 is below! Any thoughts? Who me confused? Bob www.familysearch.com Elizabeth WESTALL Sex: F Event(s): Christening: 10 Jul 1853 Ramsbury, Wiltshire, England Parents: Father: Henry WESTALL Mother: Eliza ############################## 1871 England Census Name: Elizabeth Westall Age: 17 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Awford, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish: St Mary County/Island: Berkshire Country: England Street address: 13 Cooley Hill Occupation: General Servant Condition as to marriage: Single Registration district: Reading Sub registration district: St Mary ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 44 John Hart Head..M..30..Iron Monger.........Berks, Reading Ann Hart Wife..M..32......................Middlesex,Twickenham William S Hart Son...S....6..Scholar.............Berks, Reading Catherine A Hart Dau...S....5..Scholar.............Berks, Reading Hannah E Hart Dau...S....2 .....................Berks, Reading Elizabeth Westall Servant..S..17..General Servant.....Wilts, Axford ############################# 1881 England Census Name: Elizabeth Chivers Age: 27 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: Henry Gender: Female Where born: Axford, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish: Preshute County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street address: Meadow St Margaretts Condition as to marriage: Married Occupation: General Laborer Wife Registration district: Marlborough Sub registration district: Marlborough Henry Chivers Head..M..27..General Laborer..............Wilts, Huish Elizabeth Chivers Wife..M..27...............................Wilts, Axford Joseph Birch Visitor..Wd.76..Retired Farmer...Warwickshire, Kenelworth ################################ 1901 England Census Name: Elizabeth Chivers Age: 46 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855 Relation: Head Gender: Female Where born: Axford, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish: Preshute Ecclesiastical parish: Marlborough St Mary County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street address: London Rd Occupation: Charwoman Condition as to marriage: Widow Registration district: Marlborough Sub registration district: Marlborough ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 127 Elizabeth Chivers Head..Wd..46..Charwoman............Witls, Axford Henry J Chivers Son...S....17..Gardiner's Laborer...Wilts, Marlborough Harry Westall Visitor...S....11.......................Wilts, Axford E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version: 5.11770 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/

Hi Bob, I've had another look and on balance I think you are quite right. Elizabeth (1853) probably did marry Henry John Chivers as you suggest. I think you are also right about the marriage of Sarah Ann Westall (1859) and William John Rushen (1858) in 1881. The other Sarah Westall (1850) who married William James Rushen (1850) in 1870 was probably the daughter of John Westall (1818, Ham) and Elizabeth Vockins (1824, Ramsbury). But there are a half a dozen other Sarah Ann Westall's who could fit the bill!. The parents of William John Rushen (1858) were Henry Eaton Rushen (1828, Ramsbury) and Sarah Wailing (1828, Ramsbury) who married 1849 in Hungerford RD. The parents of William James Rushen (1850) were James Rushen (1825, Ramsbury) and Ann Booker (1826, Ramsbury). James and Henry Eaton Rushen were brothers (parents James Rushen (1795, Ramsbury) and Sarah Eaton (1793, Trowbridge?) Two William Rushen's marry two Sarah Westall's in Ramsbury. I think someone is trying to test us? ;o) Good work Bob. Fred -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Westall" <bobatbmw@cox.net> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:40 PM To: <westall@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Ernest Westall b 1879 > Fred, > > It is a very interesting discussion and I know you have a great deal more > info than I do! The following is what I have on Elizabeth Westall b 10 > Jul > 1853 Axford, Wilts m Henry John Chivers b Bet. Jan - Mar 1853 d Bet. Jan - > Mar 1899 both in Wiltshire. In all the census her age is about correct > and > of course she was born in Axford. In the 1901 census please note she is > living with her son Henry J Chivers b Oct - Dec 1883 Hungerford and a > visitor Harry Westall age 11 b 07 Jul 1889 also in Axford? > > There were two Elizabeth Westall b ca. 1852 - 1853. They are as follows: > > Births Jun 1852 (>99%) > Westall Elizabeth Hungerford 2c 204 > > Births Sep 1853 (98%) > WESTALL Elizabeth Hungerford 2c 200 > > I show the 1852 Elizabeth as the daughter to George Westall and Elizabeth > Spanswick. Info on Elizabeth 1853 is below! > > Any thoughts? Who me confused? > > Bob > > www.familysearch.com > > Elizabeth WESTALL > Sex: F > > Event(s): > Christening: 10 Jul 1853 > Ramsbury, Wiltshire, England > > Parents: > Father: Henry WESTALL > Mother: Eliza > ############################## > 1871 England Census > > Name: Elizabeth Westall > Age: 17 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854 > Relation: Servant > Gender: Female > Where born: Awford, Wiltshire, England > Civil Parish: St Mary > County/Island: Berkshire > Country: England > Street address: 13 Cooley Hill > Occupation: General Servant > Condition as to marriage: Single > Registration district: Reading > Sub registration district: St Mary > ED, institution, or vessel: 4 > Neighbors: View others on page > Household schedule number: 44 > > John Hart Head..M..30..Iron Monger.........Berks, Reading > Ann Hart > Wife..M..32......................Middlesex,Twickenham > William S Hart Son...S....6..Scholar.............Berks, Reading > Catherine A Hart Dau...S....5..Scholar.............Berks, Reading > > Hannah E Hart Dau...S....2 .....................Berks, Reading > Elizabeth Westall Servant..S..17..General Servant.....Wilts, Axford > ############################# > 1881 England Census > > Name: Elizabeth Chivers > Age: 27 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854 > Relation: Wife > Spouse's Name: Henry > Gender: Female > Where born: Axford, Wiltshire, England > Civil Parish: Preshute > County/Island: Wiltshire > Country: England > Street address: Meadow St Margaretts > Condition as to marriage: Married > Occupation: General Laborer Wife > Registration district: Marlborough > Sub registration district: Marlborough > > Henry Chivers Head..M..27..General Laborer..............Wilts, > Huish > > Elizabeth Chivers Wife..M..27...............................Wilts, > Axford > > Joseph Birch Visitor..Wd.76..Retired Farmer...Warwickshire, > Kenelworth > ################################ > 1901 England Census > > Name: Elizabeth Chivers > Age: 46 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855 > Relation: Head > Gender: Female > Where born: Axford, Wiltshire, England > Civil Parish: Preshute > Ecclesiastical parish: Marlborough St Mary > County/Island: Wiltshire > Country: England > Street address: London Rd > Occupation: Charwoman > Condition as to marriage: Widow > Registration district: Marlborough > Sub registration district: Marlborough > ED, institution, or vessel: 10 > Neighbors: View others on page > Household schedule number: 127 > > Elizabeth Chivers Head..Wd..46..Charwoman............Witls, Axford > Henry J Chivers Son...S....17..Gardiner's Laborer...Wilts, Marlborough > Harry Westall Visitor...S....11.......................Wilts, Axford > > > > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) > Database version: 5.11770 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

PS Like you I also have the Elizabeth Westall (1852) as the dau. of George Westall (1806) and Elizabeth Spanswick (1809) who married 18 Dec 1827 in Lambourne, Berks. So that's a good sign.. ;o) -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Westall" <bobatbmw@cox.net> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:40 PM To: <westall@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Ernest Westall b 1879 > Fred, > > It is a very interesting discussion and I know you have a great deal more > info than I do! The following is what I have on Elizabeth Westall b 10 > Jul > 1853 Axford, Wilts m Henry John Chivers b Bet. Jan - Mar 1853 d Bet. Jan - > Mar 1899 both in Wiltshire. In all the census her age is about correct > and > of course she was born in Axford. In the 1901 census please note she is > living with her son Henry J Chivers b Oct - Dec 1883 Hungerford and a > visitor Harry Westall age 11 b 07 Jul 1889 also in Axford? > > There were two Elizabeth Westall b ca. 1852 - 1853. They are as follows: > > Births Jun 1852 (>99%) > Westall Elizabeth Hungerford 2c 204 > > Births Sep 1853 (98%) > WESTALL Elizabeth Hungerford 2c 200 > > I show the 1852 Elizabeth as the daughter to George Westall and Elizabeth > Spanswick. Info on Elizabeth 1853 is below! > > Any thoughts? Who me confused? > > Bob > > www.familysearch.com > > Elizabeth WESTALL > Sex: F > > Event(s): > Christening: 10 Jul 1853 > Ramsbury, Wiltshire, England > > Parents: > Father: Henry WESTALL > Mother: Eliza > ############################## > 1871 England Census > > Name: Elizabeth Westall > Age: 17 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854 > Relation: Servant > Gender: Female > Where born: Awford, Wiltshire, England > Civil Parish: St Mary > County/Island: Berkshire > Country: England > Street address: 13 Cooley Hill > Occupation: General Servant > Condition as to marriage: Single > Registration district: Reading > Sub registration district: St Mary > ED, institution, or vessel: 4 > Neighbors: View others on page > Household schedule number: 44 > > John Hart Head..M..30..Iron Monger.........Berks, Reading > Ann Hart > Wife..M..32......................Middlesex,Twickenham > William S Hart Son...S....6..Scholar.............Berks, Reading > Catherine A Hart Dau...S....5..Scholar.............Berks, Reading > > Hannah E Hart Dau...S....2 .....................Berks, Reading > Elizabeth Westall Servant..S..17..General Servant.....Wilts, Axford > ############################# > 1881 England Census > > Name: Elizabeth Chivers > Age: 27 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854 > Relation: Wife > Spouse's Name: Henry > Gender: Female > Where born: Axford, Wiltshire, England > Civil Parish: Preshute > County/Island: Wiltshire > Country: England > Street address: Meadow St Margaretts > Condition as to marriage: Married > Occupation: General Laborer Wife > Registration district: Marlborough > Sub registration district: Marlborough > > Henry Chivers Head..M..27..General Laborer..............Wilts, > Huish > > Elizabeth Chivers Wife..M..27...............................Wilts, > Axford > > Joseph Birch Visitor..Wd.76..Retired Farmer...Warwickshire, > Kenelworth > ################################ > 1901 England Census > > Name: Elizabeth Chivers > Age: 46 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855 > Relation: Head > Gender: Female > Where born: Axford, Wiltshire, England > Civil Parish: Preshute > Ecclesiastical parish: Marlborough St Mary > County/Island: Wiltshire > Country: England > Street address: London Rd > Occupation: Charwoman > Condition as to marriage: Widow > Registration district: Marlborough > Sub registration district: Marlborough > ED, institution, or vessel: 10 > Neighbors: View others on page > Household schedule number: 127 > > Elizabeth Chivers Head..Wd..46..Charwoman............Witls, Axford > Henry J Chivers Son...S....17..Gardiner's Laborer...Wilts, Marlborough > Harry Westall Visitor...S....11.......................Wilts, Axford > > > > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) > Database version: 5.11770 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >