I still haven't found my Thomas Westall, father and son, in 1841 census. I was hoping to find a sibling or two for Thomas Westall jnr, born 2 May 1833, bap 19 April 1834, St Gile's Church, London. It would probably have been unlikely that he was an only child. His father Thomas Westall snr was born c 1804 - 1807, Reading, Berkshire. In 1851 they were living in Dudley Street as follows - Thomas Westall, Head, Widr, M, 45, Shoemaker, Berks, Reading Thomas Westall, Son, M, 17, Printer, Middx, St Giles Edmund Franklin, Nephew, Widr, M, 21, Shoemaker, Middx, St Giles Address 56, Dudley Street, St Giles in the Fields, Finsbury HO 107/1509 Folio 389 p12 Mick's family, John and Sarah Westall, were living at no 67, John also a shoemaker, so there may be a connection at some stage. I think Thomas Westall senior's wife was probably Maria Burden, from IGI and Pallott's marriage index, but Mick has her as Maria Franklin, I'm not sure where from, hope you can enlighten me, Mick. I cannot find any reference anywhere to a marriage between Thomas Westall and Maria Franklin. As you say, Bob, it is very much 'a soup sandwich' what age or place of birth will be given from one census to the next! Margaret ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Michael Westall" <l.m.westall@btinternet.com> Reply-To: westall@rootsweb.com To: <westall@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Thomnas Westall Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 12:17:28 +0100 Hi all, In the UK in general, Parish Registers are the only records you can go on before 1837 for births. If my John was linked to this branch of the Westall's he would have left home by then - he was married 29 December 1829 and living in Lambeth at that time. The 1841 census shows him living in the St Giles area of Westminster, on this census he says he was 'not born in the county of London'. His entry in the 1851 census shows him still living in the St Giles area and states that he was born in the parish of 'St James', Westminster' - he is not shown in their parish registers between 1807 and 1815, I have checked them for myself. In the 1861 census he is still in the same place and gives 'London' as his place of birth. He died in 1864. It is very possible that he did not originate from London, I have checked the IGI and other sources far and wide without finding any clues. Chiswick is now a fully built up part of London - it developed from a small village mainly in the 19th centaury and would have been in the county of Middlesex in the early 1800's. It is only 6 miles west of the parish of Westminster and it is quite possible that he could have migrated from there. It is a coincidence that I lived in Barnes on the other side of the river Thames from Chiswick from 1934 until 1950 - well before I took up genealogy as a hobby ! (I started in 1970 - after my grandfather Westall died at the age of 103). Mick ----- Original Message ----- From: "bobatbmw" <bobatbmw@cox.net> To: <westall@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Thomnas Westall > Mick, > > That is the tough question? As we are aware things changed as to how > records were kept in the 1830's. I think myself quite fortunate to have > come up with Catherine age 12 or so in the 1841 census and her parents. I > feel quite confident it is a match because her future husband was living > with her parents at the time. Like Thomas b 1818 and Mary Ann b 1815 your > John Westall b ca. 1812 had already moved away from mom and dad so it > really > makes things much tougher! > > When you say Westminster is not very far from Chiswick, just what do you > mean by how far? Also where did you find his birthplace as Westminster? > As > we are both aware people change their place of birth from census to census > just as they may alter their age as well! > > Genealogy is truly a soup sandwich and I guess that is what keeps me > coming > back to it. That and the fact that people have asked for assistance with > their families which is very hard for me to turn down. When I started my > genealogy research out years ago people were so gracious and outgoing with > their assistance to me I feel greatly obliged to "Pass it on" if at all > possible! > > Is there anyone on the list that lives anywhere near Chiswick? It appears > to be a very small community which is very close to the Thames River and > less than 3 miles from Richmond. In the other direction it looks to be 6 > to > 8 miles from Hampstead! > > I do not have anything firm on Thomas'(b 1818)place of marriage to > Elizabeth > Swain but Mary Ann Westall m Samuel Snell (b 1806 in Falham, Middlesex, > Eng) > in the 2nd Quarter of 1840 in Kensington, Middlesex, Eng. I got this from > www.rootsweb.com Free BirthMarriageDeath. It may not be etched in stone > but > man it sure fits like a glove! > > Thomas' first child was Elizabeth b 1837 which would mean the marriage > took > place outside of the newer records I believe! :-( > > As ever so many questions and so very few answers! > > Does anyone have any thoughts at all. If so please email the list as > every > thought might be the one that opens the door! > > Mick, as ever good hearing from you! > > Warmest regards to all Westall cousins! > > Bob Westall > > > -----Original Message----- > From: westall-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:westall-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On > Behalf Of Michael Westall > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 5:45 AM > To: westall@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Thomnas Westall > > Hi, Bob and all list members, > > Yes I have been following this. > > I wonder if there is any evidence of siblings earlier than Mary Ann born > 1816. Thomas and Catherine would both have been 30 in 1816. > My John Westalls census details say he was born around 1812, allegedly in > Westminster. This is not very far from Chiswick and there could be a link > although at that time Chiswick was a small village outside London. > > Is there any evidence of when and where Thomas and Catherine were married? > > Mick W > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bobatbmw" <bobatbmw@cox.net> > To: "WESTALL Mailing List" <WESTALL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 6:05 PM > Subject: [WESTALL] Thomnas Westall > > >> Hi everyone, >> >> If you have followed the dialogue about Thomas Westall b 1786 in >> Chiswick, >> Middlesex, Eng I would appreciate if you would check your family >> information >> to see if there is any chance he may touch your particular family! >> >> Thomas wife was Catherine born 1786 in England. Their children were: >> >> Mary Ann Westall..b 1816 >> Thomas Westall..b 1818 >> Catherine Westall..b 1827 >> >> There could have been more children but to date this is all I can come up >> with! These three children were also born in Chiswick, Middlesex, Eng. >> >> Mick, your John Westall was b 1813 in St James's Parish, Westminster, >> London, Eng. What do you think? >> >> Carmen, I found this in Free BMD could this be Thomas Westall b 1818: >> >> Deaths Jun 1901 >> Westall Thomas W. Ham 4a 40 >> The district W. Ham is an alternative name for West Ham and it spans the >> boundaries of the counties of Essex and Greater London? >> >> Any thoughts or suggestions by any list member would be greatly >> appreciated. >> >> >> Bob >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Margaret, All told I have some 30 different Westall Family groups totaling well over 25,000 family members from all over the world.. Each time I work on a family, such as, Carmen's Thomas b 1818 Chiswick, Middlesex I review every other relevant Family in case there could be a possible fit? A case in point would be checking with Mick and his John b 1812 in Westminster. I also reviewed your Thomas but his place of Birth, Reading, Berks precluded him as an immediate suspect for this family I believed! Genealogy is really more of an art than an absolute "Science" to me! Within the Westall family there been very heated debates as to who was the father or husband to a given individual. I try not to take sides but none of us were standing there when an event happened 100+ years ago. It amazes me how facts change from census to census (as Mick noted earlier). I have had family members refer to an Aunt or Uncle's letter as gospel when it was written 30 or 40 years after the fact! :-( What we are trying to do is really quite a "Herculean Task" and I am proud of all of the effort that has put forth by so many of us! Keep up the great work everyone! No matter how small a fact or thought you might have that may be the thought that helps someone else! Regards to all, Bob Westall List Administrator -----Original Message----- From: westall-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:westall-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of margaret wilkinson Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:02 AM To: westall@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Thomas Westall I still haven't found my Thomas Westall, father and son, in 1841 census. I was hoping to find a sibling or two for Thomas Westall jnr, born 2 May 1833, bap 19 April 1834, St Gile's Church, London. It would probably have been unlikely that he was an only child. His father Thomas Westall snr was born c 1804 - 1807, Reading, Berkshire. In 1851 they were living in Dudley Street as follows - Thomas Westall, Head, Widr, M, 45, Shoemaker, Berks, Reading Thomas Westall, Son, M, 17, Printer, Middx, St Giles Edmund Franklin, Nephew, Widr, M, 21, Shoemaker, Middx, St Giles Address 56, Dudley Street, St Giles in the Fields, Finsbury HO 107/1509 Folio 389 p12 Mick's family, John and Sarah Westall, were living at no 67, John also a shoemaker, so there may be a connection at some stage. I think Thomas Westall senior's wife was probably Maria Burden, from IGI and Pallott's marriage index, but Mick has her as Maria Franklin, I'm not sure where from, hope you can enlighten me, Mick. I cannot find any reference anywhere to a marriage between Thomas Westall and Maria Franklin. As you say, Bob, it is very much 'a soup sandwich' what age or place of birth will be given from one census to the next! Margaret ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Michael Westall" <l.m.westall@btinternet.com> Reply-To: westall@rootsweb.com To: <westall@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Thomnas Westall Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 12:17:28 +0100 Hi all, In the UK in general, Parish Registers are the only records you can go on before 1837 for births. If my John was linked to this branch of the Westall's he would have left home by then - he was married 29 December 1829 and living in Lambeth at that time. The 1841 census shows him living in the St Giles area of Westminster, on this census he says he was 'not born in the county of London'. His entry in the 1851 census shows him still living in the St Giles area and states that he was born in the parish of 'St James', Westminster' - he is not shown in their parish registers between 1807 and 1815, I have checked them for myself. In the 1861 census he is still in the same place and gives 'London' as his place of birth. He died in 1864. It is very possible that he did not originate from London, I have checked the IGI and other sources far and wide without finding any clues. Chiswick is now a fully built up part of London - it developed from a small village mainly in the 19th centaury and would have been in the county of Middlesex in the early 1800's. It is only 6 miles west of the parish of Westminster and it is quite possible that he could have migrated from there. It is a coincidence that I lived in Barnes on the other side of the river Thames from Chiswick from 1934 until 1950 - well before I took up genealogy as a hobby ! (I started in 1970 - after my grandfather Westall died at the age of 103). Mick ----- Original Message ----- From: "bobatbmw" <bobatbmw@cox.net> To: <westall@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Thomnas Westall > Mick, > > That is the tough question? As we are aware things changed as to how > records were kept in the 1830's. I think myself quite fortunate to have > come up with Catherine age 12 or so in the 1841 census and her parents. I > feel quite confident it is a match because her future husband was living > with her parents at the time. Like Thomas b 1818 and Mary Ann b 1815 your > John Westall b ca. 1812 had already moved away from mom and dad so it > really > makes things much tougher! > > When you say Westminster is not very far from Chiswick, just what do you > mean by how far? Also where did you find his birthplace as Westminster? > As > we are both aware people change their place of birth from census to census > just as they may alter their age as well! > > Genealogy is truly a soup sandwich and I guess that is what keeps me > coming > back to it. That and the fact that people have asked for assistance with > their families which is very hard for me to turn down. When I started my > genealogy research out years ago people were so gracious and outgoing with > their assistance to me I feel greatly obliged to "Pass it on" if at all > possible! > > Is there anyone on the list that lives anywhere near Chiswick? It appears > to be a very small community which is very close to the Thames River and > less than 3 miles from Richmond. In the other direction it looks to be 6 > to > 8 miles from Hampstead! > > I do not have anything firm on Thomas'(b 1818)place of marriage to > Elizabeth > Swain but Mary Ann Westall m Samuel Snell (b 1806 in Falham, Middlesex, > Eng) > in the 2nd Quarter of 1840 in Kensington, Middlesex, Eng. I got this from > www.rootsweb.com Free BirthMarriageDeath. It may not be etched in stone > but > man it sure fits like a glove! > > Thomas' first child was Elizabeth b 1837 which would mean the marriage > took > place outside of the newer records I believe! :-( > > As ever so many questions and so very few answers! > > Does anyone have any thoughts at all. If so please email the list as > every > thought might be the one that opens the door! > > Mick, as ever good hearing from you! > > Warmest regards to all Westall cousins! > > Bob Westall > > > -----Original Message----- > From: westall-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:westall-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On > Behalf Of Michael Westall > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 5:45 AM > To: westall@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Thomnas Westall > > Hi, Bob and all list members, > > Yes I have been following this. > > I wonder if there is any evidence of siblings earlier than Mary Ann born > 1816. Thomas and Catherine would both have been 30 in 1816. > My John Westalls census details say he was born around 1812, allegedly in > Westminster. This is not very far from Chiswick and there could be a link > although at that time Chiswick was a small village outside London. > > Is there any evidence of when and where Thomas and Catherine were married? > > Mick W > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bobatbmw" <bobatbmw@cox.net> > To: "WESTALL Mailing List" <WESTALL-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 6:05 PM > Subject: [WESTALL] Thomnas Westall > > >> Hi everyone, >> >> If you have followed the dialogue about Thomas Westall b 1786 in >> Chiswick, >> Middlesex, Eng I would appreciate if you would check your family >> information >> to see if there is any chance he may touch your particular family! >> >> Thomas wife was Catherine born 1786 in England. Their children were: >> >> Mary Ann Westall..b 1816 >> Thomas Westall..b 1818 >> Catherine Westall..b 1827 >> >> There could have been more children but to date this is all I can come up >> with! These three children were also born in Chiswick, Middlesex, Eng. >> >> Mick, your John Westall was b 1813 in St James's Parish, Westminster, >> London, Eng. What do you think? >> >> Carmen, I found this in Free BMD could this be Thomas Westall b 1818: >> >> Deaths Jun 1901 >> Westall Thomas W. Ham 4a 40 >> The district W. Ham is an alternative name for West Ham and it spans the >> boundaries of the counties of Essex and Greater London? >> >> Any thoughts or suggestions by any list member would be greatly >> appreciated. >> >> >> Bob >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message