Hi all Wow the plot thickens! I am thinking on the same lines as Margaret and Fred that maybe Charles was a naughty boy and changed his name from Ernest to leave his 'crimes' behind in England. I am now searching for Ernest on passenger lists just in case he came as Ernest and changed name upon arrival here in Australia. He may have even been a stow away - adds more intrigue to the mystery. Fred I like a good mystery too and love being a super defective!!! I would love to know where the details of Ernest's records are - I did a search on the Old Baileys online but drew a blank there. I'll be back hopefully with a find cheers Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Westall To: westall@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Charles Westall Middlesex to Australia Thanks Margaret. I notice that in several places in the Army Records his address is just given as 'Shaw Crescent' and no number is given. Perhaps the person compiling the record on behalf of Charles made the transcription error or perhaps Charles was just trying to cover his tracks by giving a house number he knew didn't exist! The age he gives in the army record is also inconsistent in places. I'm leaning towards Dorothy's hypothesis that Charles and Ernest Francis are probably one and the same person! I do like a good 'Westall mystery'! Fred -----Original Message----- From: westall-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:westall-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Wilkinson Sent: 17 March 2010 20:19 To: westall@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Charles Westall Middlesex to Australia Fred, 1911 census definitely gives 32, Shaw Crescent as the address. It was the Army records which gave the number 37. In 1911 census there appears to be no 37, Shaw Crescent, Newbury - the last number given in the Crescent is number 35. Margaret ---------------------------------------- > From: fred_westall@msn.com > To: westall@rootsweb.com > Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:20:39 +0000 > Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Charles Westall Middlesex to Australia > > That's quite a mystery you've got there Julie! I only saw a transcription > of the 1911 census (not the original document) so it is very possible > (probable?) that the actual address was 32 rather than 37 Shaw Crescent as > transcribed. If so, that would definitively place Charles with the family > of James Westall and Edith Head. In both the 1901 and 1911 census there is > a Charles Westall (b.1898 in Cold Ash, Berks) listed as grandson to > James/Edith. There are no clues as to his parentage that I can find. I > can't find any sign of either Ernest Francis Westall or his elder brother > Henry (b.1866, Speen) in the 1911 census. They seem to have vanished by > then! The AIF WW1 records for Charles are quite revealing. Several > different ages are given - including age 43 when he was admitted to hospital > for treatment in 1916. That would give his DOB as 1873 - coincidentally the > year that Ernest Francis Westall was born in Leckhamstead!! If only we had > digital cameras then someone coulss have taken a photograph of his many > tattoos!! > Ears always prick up when 'convicts' and 'Australia' are mentioned in the > same sentence!! > > Fred > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Julie Watt" > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:56 PM > To: > Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Charles Westall Middlesex to Australia > >> Hi Fred, Bob, Dorothy & Christine >> >> Fred & Christine it is great to hear that there is a connection with >> Charles WESTALL and your families - I am related to his children through >> his wife (my great Grandma) - >> Edith Amy WESTALL Born 1918 Died? >> >> Douglas Charles WESTALL Born 1918 Died 3 Aug 1976 >> >> Frank WESTALL Born 28 August 1919 Died 24 Dec 1980 >> >> Henry WESTALL Born 10 Oct 1921 Died 22 June 1923 >> >> Joan Eva WESTALL Born? Died? >> >> Death of a child in 1920 mother ?Ann = Amy (I do believe this child to be >> theirs will get cert when can afford) >> >> 6015/1920 WESTALL Charles W Father Charles Mother Ann Registered PETERSHAM >> NSW >> >> I haven't done much research on finding living descendants of their >> children yet. Next project. >> >> When my Great Grandma married Charles she had 4 children with Great >> Grandad and somehow they ended up in an orphanage for a time. It is hard >> putting together the pieces of the puzzle but there was some animosity as >> a result so it wasn't spoken of around Mum. >> >> Bob, the young Charles in 1911 couldn't be Charles that came to Australia >> but the family appears to fit so I checked on Charles WW1 Army records >> (AIF) he has his father James' address as Shaw St although 37 instead of >> 32. Interesting >> Unfortunately the records in WW1 required an age but not DOB which is a >> pain. I worked out he was born abt 1879 from his marriage cert but going >> by his army records it could have been as early as 1876. >> >> Charles WESTALL in the parish of Islington Middlesex London >> aged 38 1/2 years on 2 Nov 1915 >> Engineer/engine driver >> Father James Westall >> 37 Shaw Crescent near Newbury Berks England >> >> This is the link to a digital copy of those records >> http://naa12.naa.gov.au/Scripts/Imagine.asp?B=8381652&I=1 >> He was in the AIF for a short time & discharged for flat feet & vericose >> veins. >> >> Thank you for your continued input and interest in helping me solve what I >> call the WESTALL mystery. >> Enjoy your day >> Julie >> >> >> >> From: Fred Westall >> To: westall@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Charles Westall Middlesex to Australia >> >> >> PS - In the 1911 England Census, James Westall and Edith (nee Head) were >> living at 32 Shaw Crescent, Newbury: >> >> James Westall, Head, age 69, born Boxford, 48 years married, Farm >> labourer. >> Edith Westall, Wife, age 66, born Chievely Berks, Laundress >> Ida Effie Westall, Dau., Single, age 27, born Shefford Berks, Laundress >> Frank Westall, Son, Single, age 24, born Shaw Dean Newbury Berks, General >> Labourer >> Charles, Grandson, age 13, Cold Ash Berks, School. >> >> Julie - could this be your Charles? >> >> Fred >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Tell us your greatest, weirdest and funniest Hotmail stories http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm thoroughly enjoying 'sleuthing' this one! It seems the 4th Queen's Own Hussars were in India c1896-1905 and South Africa 1905-1909, so I wonder if 'Charles' ever returned to the Northern Hemisphere when his time expired? http://www.qrh.org.uk/history4a.htm So far as his age is concerned, the early November 1915 attestation gives his age 38 plus one-twelfth [not a half], so it would be fair to assume his birth would have been between September and October of some year between 1870 and 1880. It just so happens there was an unnamed male registered in the Sep Quarter of 1872 in Newbury District - a possibility for Ernest Francis? Location of his baptism is a necessity. I can envisage any red-blooded Englishman wanting to show patriotism at the outbreak of WW1 and, for fear of being regarded too old for service, I reckon he'd be inclined to lop a few years off his age - only admitting to his actual age of 43 at discharge when he was too 'crocked' to care ....... It appears he had a drink problem and a rotten memory for someone who practised deception .......... Dorothy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Watt" <wattlebee@bigpond.com> To: <westall@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Charles Westall Middlesex to Australia > > Hi all > > Wow the plot thickens! > > I am thinking on the same lines as Margaret and Fred that > maybe Charles was a naughty boy and changed his name from > Ernest to leave his 'crimes' behind in England. I am now > searching for Ernest on passenger lists just in case he > came as Ernest and changed name upon arrival here in > Australia. He may have even been a stow away - adds more > intrigue to the mystery. > > Fred I like a good mystery too and love being a super > defective!!! > > I would love to know where the details of Ernest's records > are - I did a search on the Old Baileys online but drew a > blank there. > > I'll be back hopefully with a find > cheers > Julie >

Have I 'unfrocked' Charles WESTALL? FreeBMD Marriages Dec 1897 Gosling Frederick William Staines 3a 39 ISAACSON Louie Staines 3a 39 Searle Kate Staines 3a 39 WESTALL Ernest Francis Staines 3a 39 See: 1901 Census RG13 piece 251 folio 58 page 53 Dorothy

Good work Dorothy - That looks like our man!! Seems like he was calling himself Charles in 1901, and has a wife Louie Isaacson and a daughter Nellie (b.1897, Newbury). In 1911 census, Nellie is in the Staines Union Workhouse. No sign of Louie! The plot thickens! Fred -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dorothy Jones" <dee-jay@jones2115.fsnet.co.uk> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 6:39 PM To: "Julie Watt" <wattlebee@bigpond.com>; <westall@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Charles Westall Middlesex to Australia > Have I 'unfrocked' Charles WESTALL? > > FreeBMD Marriages Dec 1897 > Gosling Frederick William Staines 3a 39 > ISAACSON Louie Staines 3a 39 > Searle Kate Staines 3a 39 > WESTALL Ernest Francis Staines 3a 39 > > See: > 1901 Census RG13 piece 251 folio 58 page 53 > > > > Dorothy >

Hi from downunder Dorothy & Bob it sure was interesting to learn that Ernest (?aka) Charles was married and had a daughter - I don't have access to view the 1901 census but I was able to search and see that there was a Charles married to a Louie. Now to find out when he did come to Australia under which name and whether he left his wife and child behind. On ancestry I found a few entries for an E F Westall on the New South Wales, Australia, Unassisted Immigrant Passenger Lists 1826-1922 arriving Sydney - does anyone have access to the record/image? I also notice there is Ernest Francis on England & Wales Criminal Register residing in Berkshire on 23 Oct 1889 that I would love to see too. I also found a listing for a Mr E Westall who arrived in May 1914 but was aged 19 - however I don't think we could really believe any age as far as Charles was concerned. I will see what I can find out with regards the above Westall passengers Cheers Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Westall To: westall@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Charles Westall Middlesex to Australia Good work Dorothy - That looks like our man!! Seems like he was calling himself Charles in 1901, and has a wife Louie Isaacson and a daughter Nellie (b.1897, Newbury). In 1911 census, Nellie is in the Staines Union Workhouse. No sign of Louie! The plot thickens! Fred -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dorothy Jones" <dee-jay@jones2115.fsnet.co.uk> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 6:39 PM To: "Julie Watt" <wattlebee@bigpond.com>; <westall@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [WESTALL] Charles Westall Middlesex to Australia > Have I 'unfrocked' Charles WESTALL? > > FreeBMD Marriages Dec 1897 > Gosling Frederick William Staines 3a 39 > ISAACSON Louie Staines 3a 39 > Searle Kate Staines 3a 39 > WESTALL Ernest Francis Staines 3a 39 > > See: > 1901 Census RG13 piece 251 folio 58 page 53 > > > > Dorothy > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WESTALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message