Thank you everyone so far for your help. Thank you Jenny, when you mentioned that if they had children on the 1911 to obtain the birth cert to ascertain the mothers maiden name, i knew they had no children but remembered my mum mentioning they had a child that died, which on the census it asks any children born alive, answer 1, any children died, answer 1. This gave me the idea to try find a child to a william and sarah annie on familysearch.org, i did find a charles henry in the area that sarah annie was born to a william and sarah ann. but cannot match a death. so i have not managed to get anywhere. I thought it would be good to find a sarah annie born tetbury on the census' 1891 and previous born approx 1873, but nothing. I thought i may come accross one who may have moved to yorkshire or birmingham area. but nothing. Any ideas guys? Kind regards Louise Wortley On 18 Feb 2012, at 15:06, west-riding-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 7, Issue 21 (Louise Wortley) > 2. West Riding Archives data on Ancestry (John Hanson) > 3. Wortley (Roger Gill) > 4. Re: Wortley (Pontefract FHS) > 5. Re: WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 (Jenny De Angelis) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 09:08:54 +0000 > From: Louise Wortley <qbangelcakes@aol.com> > Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 7, Issue 21 > To: west-riding@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <F2DD4B3D-94AB-47DC-B921-6CC27DB6D299@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hello Bill, > > Thank you very much for your reply, > > That is my family you found on the 1881, i already have the census' though it is the birth/christening records for William and williams marriage i need. > > I have no idea where they could have married, and there only seems to be one possibility, which i have been told is not mine, not unless Williams father was not Richard but actually William, which i doubt since William was named after his grandad and i have Richard's birth cert, marriage cert and grave stone details, he was 100% Richard! > > I look forward to hearing from everyone. > > Kind regards > > Louise Wortley > > > On 18 Feb 2012, at 08:01, west-riding-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 (Louise Wortley) >> 2. Re: WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 (bill) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 20:11:18 +0000 >> From: Louise Wortley <qbangelcakes@aol.com> >> Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 >> To: west-riding@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: <5AF377F4-E77B-4537-8658-E6D7BDF0DB34@aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Dear listers, >> >> I am trying to obtain my 2x great uncles marriage cert mainly because i have photo and a letter written by him so he seems closer to me than some of my direct ancestors. >> >> I have had an issue. >> >> I know he is William Hargreaves born Sowerby Bridge 1872 approx, his parents are Richard born Crompton, Lancashire, and Ann Scott, born Lancashire. I know Williams wife was Sarah Annie, but the family knew her as Annie. the 1901 Wednesbury and 1911 census show annie as born Tedbury Herefordshire. >> >> The 1911 shows they have been married 11 years so approx 1899, the only entry that matched was for Wortley West Riding for a Sarah Annie Smith. I presumed this was Leeds so applied and they told me they located the entry and the father was not Richard they put it was for e.g william? so is that an eg or were they giving me a hint. then the letter said that i should try Sheffield. >> >> On Free BMD it says Wortley became part of Sheffield in 1974, so that has nothing to do with 1899. I dont understand what the registry office are saying, are they saying there is an entry for sheffield and it must be mine and they couldnt find one for Leeds Wortley when they said they had? >> >> Im really confused what Wortley in Sheffield has to do with my family, it is hard enough trying to understand how it could even be Leeds Wortley when my family were from Sowerby Bridge and Manchester area. >> >> Is anyone able to run a search for me and tell me what they think? There is only one entry that matches either that or William who was definatelly william was not william. And is anyone able to find a birth for William approx 1872 Sowerby Bridge parents Richard and Ann Scott. >> >> I thought it would be easy with Parish records on Ancestry but i can not find anything. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Louise Wortley >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 11 Feb 2012, at 20:34, west-riding-request@rootsweb.com wrote: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 12:11:13 +1100 >> From: bill <nomads71@bigpond.com> >> Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 >> To: west-riding@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: <4F3EFAB1.2050805@bigpond.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Hi Louise >> William Born 1872 at WARLEY which is close to Sowerby near Halifax >> father Richard mother Ann both born in Lanc's This is from the 1881 census. >> can send you image of line. >> Bill >> Avoca Beach >> Nsw >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To contact the WEST-RIDING list administrator, send an email to >> WEST-RIDING-admin@rootsweb.com. >> >> To post a message to the WEST-RIDING mailing list, send an email to WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com. >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> email with no additional text. >> >> >> End of WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 7, Issue 21 >> ****************************************** > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 09:10:33 -0000 > From: "John Hanson" <john.hanson@one-name.org> > Subject: [WRY] West Riding Archives data on Ancestry > To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com>, <yorksgen@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000301ccee1d$2d58ac30$880a0490$@one-name.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Anyone looking for information from the West Riding Archives data on > Ancestry might want to go back and look again. > > It would appear that they have updated the database. > > They have certainly added the missing marriages from 1860-1871 for St > Peters, Leeds > > They have also extended the range of the marriage from 1813 up to 1935 > instead of 1921 > > Regards > John Hanson - Researching Halstead and its variants worldwide > www.halstedresearch.org.uk > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:41:52 +0000 (GMT) > From: Roger Gill <roger.d.gill@btinternet.com> > Subject: [WRY] Wortley > To: "west-riding@rootsweb.com" <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <1329565312.57729.YahooMailNeo@web87402.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hi Louise > > Whilst Wortley is indeed a location in Leeds there is also a village of Wortley near Penistone that gave its name to a large Registration Districtincluding many townships in that locality. > Genuki has the details of the townships that were part of that District at various times upto 1974. > The link below will take you there. > > http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/wortley.html > > Whilst part of the traditional County of the West Riding of Yorkshire the locality is currently within the administrative area of South Yorkshire, which includes Sheffield and Barnsley. > > Free BMD includes marriages for William Hargreaves in both Leeds and Wortley in 1899 but only the Wortley one also includes a Sarah? Annie Smith on the same page. The Leeds entry includes a William Smith on the same page as William Hargreaves - a match that might have been rather frowned upon in those days! > > > Ancestry may well have a copy of the marriage register page available if it took place in a Church of England establishment. This would give the parents names. > > > Regards > > > Roger > > Family History Research: GILL, BERRY, CHARLESWORTH, ROBINSON and many others in the Holme Valley, south of Huddersfield. > > http://www.roger.d.gill.btinternet.co.uk/index1gen.htm > http://rogergill.me.uk > > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 20:11:18 +0000 >> From: Louise Wortley <qbangelcakes@aol.com> >> Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 >> To: west-riding@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: <5AF377F4-E77B-4537-8658-E6D7BDF0DB34@aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Dear listers, >> >> I am trying to obtain my 2x great uncles marriage cert mainly because i have >> photo and a letter written by him so he seems closer to me than some of my >> direct ancestors. >> >> I have had an issue. >> >> I know he is William Hargreaves born Sowerby Bridge 1872 approx, his parents are >> Richard born Crompton, Lancashire, and Ann Scott, born Lancashire. I know >> Williams wife was Sarah Annie, but the family knew her as Annie. the 1901 >> Wednesbury and 1911 census show annie as born Tedbury Herefordshire. >> >> The 1911 shows they have been married 11 years so approx 1899, the only entry >> that matched was for Wortley West Riding for a Sarah Annie Smith. I presumed >> this was Leeds so applied and they told me they located the entry and the father >> was not Richard they put it was for e.g william? so is that an eg or were they >> giving me a hint. then the letter said that i should try Sheffield. >> >> On Free BMD it says Wortley became part of Sheffield in 1974, so that has >> nothing to do with 1899. I dont understand what the registry office are saying, >> are they saying there is an entry for sheffield and it must be mine and they >> couldnt find one for Leeds Wortley when they said they had? >> >> Im really confused what Wortley in Sheffield has to do with my family, it is >> hard enough trying to understand how it could even be Leeds Wortley when my >> family were from Sowerby Bridge and Manchester area. >> >> Is anyone able to run a search for me and tell me what they think? There is only >> one entry that matches either that or William who was definatelly william was >> not william. And is anyone able to find a birth for William approx 1872 Sowerby >> Bridge parents Richard and Ann Scott. >> >> I thought it would be easy with Parish records on Ancestry but i can not find >> anything. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Louise Wortley > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:36:21 -0000 > From: "Pontefract FHS" <pontefhs@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [WRY] Wortley > To: "Roger Gill" <roger.d.gill@btinternet.com>, > <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <D448BAEF035B46F9B54AD075D0197155@SharonTOSH> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi > > Any marriage records that are held by Sheffield Archives will not be on > Ancestry, although traditionally part of the West Riding they are not part > of the West Yorkshire Archives Service who have put the records they hold on > Ancestry. > As far as I am aware Sheffield Archives have signed an agreement to put > their records on Find My Past and not Ancestry. > > Sharon Buchanan > vicechair@pontefractfhs.org.uk > > www.pontefractfhs.org.uk > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Roger Gill" <roger.d.gill@btinternet.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 11:41 AM > To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [WRY] Wortley > >> Hi Louise >> >> Whilst Wortley is indeed a location in Leeds there is also a village of >> Wortley near Penistone that gave its name to a large Registration >> Districtincluding many townships in that locality. >> Genuki has the details of the townships that were part of that District at >> various times upto 1974. >> The link below will take you there. >> >> http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/wortley.html >> >> Whilst part of the traditional County of the West Riding of Yorkshire the >> locality is currently within the administrative area of South Yorkshire, >> which includes Sheffield and Barnsley. >> >> Free BMD includes marriages for William Hargreaves in both Leeds and >> Wortley in 1899 but only the Wortley one also includes a Sarah Annie >> Smith on the same page. The Leeds entry includes a William Smith on the >> same page as William Hargreaves - a match that might have been rather >> frowned upon in those days! >> >> >> Ancestry may well have a copy of the marriage register page available if >> it took place in a Church of England establishment. This would give the >> parents names. >> >> >> Regards >> >> >> Roger >> >> Family History Research: GILL, BERRY, CHARLESWORTH, ROBINSON and many >> others in the Holme Valley, south of Huddersfield. >> >> http://www.roger.d.gill.btinternet.co.uk/index1gen.htm >> http://rogergill.me.uk >> >> >> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 20:11:18 +0000 >>> From: Louise Wortley <qbangelcakes@aol.com> >>> Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 >>> To: west-riding@rootsweb.com >>> Message-ID: <5AF377F4-E77B-4537-8658-E6D7BDF0DB34@aol.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> Dear listers, >>> >>> I am trying to obtain my 2x great uncles marriage cert mainly because i >>> have >>> photo and a letter written by him so he seems closer to me than some of >>> my >>> direct ancestors. >>> >>> I have had an issue. >>> >>> I know he is William Hargreaves born Sowerby Bridge 1872 approx, his >>> parents are >>> Richard born Crompton, Lancashire, and Ann Scott, born Lancashire. I know >>> Williams wife was Sarah Annie, but the family knew her as Annie. the 1901 >>> Wednesbury and 1911 census show annie as born Tedbury Herefordshire. >>> >>> The 1911 shows they have been married 11 years so approx 1899, the only >>> entry >>> that matched was for Wortley West Riding for a Sarah Annie Smith. I >>> presumed >>> this was Leeds so applied and they told me they located the entry and the >>> father >>> was not Richard they put it was for e.g william? so is that an eg or were >>> they >>> giving me a hint. then the letter said that i should try Sheffield. >>> >>> On Free BMD it says Wortley became part of Sheffield in 1974, so that has >>> nothing to do with 1899. I dont understand what the registry office are >>> saying, >>> are they saying there is an entry for sheffield and it must be mine and >>> they >>> couldnt find one for Leeds Wortley when they said they had? >>> >>> Im really confused what Wortley in Sheffield has to do with my family, it >>> is >>> hard enough trying to understand how it could even be Leeds Wortley when >>> my >>> family were from Sowerby Bridge and Manchester area. >>> >>> Is anyone able to run a search for me and tell me what they think? There >>> is only >>> one entry that matches either that or William who was definatelly william >>> was >>> not william. And is anyone able to find a birth for William approx 1872 >>> Sowerby >>> Bridge parents Richard and Ann Scott. >>> >>> I thought it would be easy with Parish records on Ancestry but i can not >>> find >>> anything. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Louise Wortley >> >> >> Some useful websites - >> FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ >> FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ >> FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ >> >> Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 16:00:55 +0100 > From: "Jenny De Angelis" <jennyda2@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 > To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <EB237D99BCCA476BBE2645510E0BD050@jennysasus> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Louise > > If the Leeds registrars told you to ask Sheffield registrars then I doubt > Leeds would know what is contained in the registers held by Sheffield but > they mean > that Sheffield is the office holding ancient registers for the old > Wortley registration District. I found the marriage you mention at Wortley > reg. district on FreeBMD and when you click on the word Wortley in that > entry it takes you forward to details of that Registration District. It > says that Registers are now held by Sheffield, Oldham, Barnsley & > Huddersfield, nothing to do with Leeds at all. The ancient registers for > the old Wortley reg. distrist are split between these 4 offices now, each > holding certain of the original old registers but not all of them in each > place, for each office to hold all of the old wortley register would not be > possible, unless copies had been made for each office to hold, and I doubt > that happened. No, it means that each of the 4 offices hold a section of the > old Wortley registration district according to where each section of the old > district lay. REgitration district boudaries are different to County or > local Council boundaries. Registration District can cross the boundaries > between counties too at times. > > Leeds would have told you to contact Sheffield reg. district office > because Wortley became part of Sheffield in 1974 and no doubt Sheffield do > hold the Wortley registers from way back, even though Sheffield didn't take > over Wortley until 1974. Sheffield would have taken on the old registers > from Wortley as part of that 1974 change over. As Wortley is a sub district > of Sheffield these days then Sheffield is where you will be most likely to > find that marriage register from 1899 held. > > I should go back to that 1899 marriage entry on freeBMD and then the page of > details of the Wortley > reg. district by clicking the link for Wortley in the entry as I have done. > You will see that it tells you where the registers are now held, click on > each > registration district name in turn and make a note of their contact details > so that you can contact each one in turn to enquire if they hold the > marriage and if they will check it for you against the fathers name Richard > Hargreaves. You will find that each district has > an e.mail address and a website link. Start with Sheffield as you have been > told to do by Leeds then try the others if that doesn't succeed. > > You have to remember that most couples marry in the Bride's parish, the > parish she was either born in or the parish where she was living at the time > of her marriage, never > mind where the groom came from. William Hargreaves and his wife may have > married somewhere in Herefordshire where she appears to have been born. Or > it could be that she had moved from Herefordshire to another part of > England, maybe Sarah Annie had moved to the Staffordshire area where they > were living in 1901 at Wednesbury, perhaps William Hargreaves had gone there > to work in between 1891 and his marriage around 1898/9. > > I checked on the Genuki site for the county of Herefordshire and looked for > a place called Tedbury, there wasn't one listed. There is a Tetbury in > Gloucestershire which is about an hours drive from Ledbury Herefordshire, > crossing the Severn bridge on the way. The only place I can find that has > a name similar to Tedbury in Herefordshire is Ledbury, I think this is more > than likely the place name meant for Sarah Annie's birth place,if > she was indeed born in Herefordshire. Have a look at the Genuki site at > > www.genuki.org.uk > > Select England and then the county as Herefordshire or Yorkshire according > to what which county you want to know more about. On each county's main > page you will find a link at the top to Towns and parishes, listed > alphabetically. > > There is a place called Thornbury in Herefordshire that might be of > interest, the writing in that 1901 census entry is difficult to read. Just > look at the surname Hargreaves in the 1901 and how it is written it is a > real mess, Sarah Annie's birthplace is not easy to make out, but my guess is > it says Ledbury, or maybe Thornbury, Herefordshire > > On the main Genuki page for England you will find a link for Civil > Registration where you will find lots of information on the subject. > > If you have found the couple in the 1911 census with children then it might > be an idea to order a copy of one of the children's birth certificate to > find out what their mother's maiden name was. A more expensive way of > getting to the marriage certificate but it seems it might be the only way if > you can't find the marriage any other way in the indexes. > > Regards > Jenny DeAngelis > > <<I am trying to obtain my 2x great uncles marriage cert mainly because i > have > photo and a letter written by him so he seems closer to me than some of my > direct ancestors. > I have had an issue. > I know he is William Hargreaves born Sowerby Bridge 1872 approx, his parents > are Richard born Crompton, Lancashire, and Ann Scott, born Lancashire. I > know Williams wife was Sarah Annie, but the family knew her as Annie. the > 1901 Wednesbury and 1911 census show annie as born Tedbury Herefordshire. > The 1911 shows they have been married 11 years so approx 1899, the only > entry that matched was for Wortley West Riding for a Sarah Annie Smith. I > presumed this was Leeds so applied and they told me they located the entry > and the father was not Richard they put it was for e.g william? so is that > an eg or were they giving me a hint. then the letter said that i should try > Sheffield.<< > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the WEST-RIDING list administrator, send an email to > WEST-RIDING-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the WEST-RIDING mailing list, send an email to WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 7, Issue 22 > ******************************************