Hi, I am wondering if the terms Lord and Squire etc originated as first names because the Lord or Squire could have fathered the children. They then arranged for the woman to marry and for her husband to give the bastard child a name. In this case you would never be able to tell the true parentage as the husband would appear on the birth certificates. Can anyone remember the use of the word esquire at the end of a name e.g. John Brown Esquire in an address, used as a title as Mr. or Master was. I've forgotten the reasons for this, I did know it once. Jean in S. Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "D E Gaunt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury >I have also come across the use of 'Lord' and 'Earl' as first names when I > was researching for a friend. She was most disappointed when we > discovered > they were only names! > Dorothy > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mel Smith > Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 10:22 AM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury > > I concur with Celia: > > I also have come across individuals named Squire and they were certainly > not > titled. > And the given name of Squire would run for several generations. > > Mel Smith > Whitby, Ontario, Canada > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Celia Renshaw > Sent: November 13, 2009 3:02 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury > > Hi Ed > Just to confuse you even more, while Squire could be a title, as you say, > like Sir, usually referring to a local bigwig, lord of the manor, > something > like that, it could also be a given name. I have Squires in several of my > family lines. Considering everything you say about this chap in the > registers, it looks 99% certain that Squire was his given name and he was > probably a labourer or craftsman by trade. > > Cheers > > Celia Renshaw > Bringing lost ancestors home: www.morganhold.com > Free strays database; affordable family research services > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Edward J. Lowitz > Sent: 12 November 2009 17:42 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury > > I've been researching the surname ELLIS from Horbury. In the parish > registers of Horbury, I came across exactly 6 references to the title > 'Squire'. Each was associated with the surname ELLIS for the period > 1598 - > 1812. The entries mentioning Squire Ellis occur from 1767 through 1786. > Being from the US, the title Squire is not one which I commonly use but > based on the Wikipedia entry, I understand that it would be associated > with > a Manor House. I'm trying to find out where this individual fits in > relative to the other ELLIS family members in the area. The Squire is > married to Hannah LNU and had at least three baptized kids (John, Hannah & > Sarah). There is no mention of his marriage or burial. His wife's burial > is mentioned in 1786. Only marriage he was involved with was for a Joseph > Ellis variously described as a "shoemaker" or "laborer". > > My questions are this: > > 1) Why are no other 'Squire's mentioned in the Parish Register? > 2) How did this guy get his title? > 3) If this guy had wealth/status, why is there so little record of him in > the Registers (ex. his death & marriage)? > 4) As a Squire, should there be further documentation of him around > somewhere (ex. deed for the Manor?, papers conferring the title?, > something > in the society pages {smile}?)? > 5) Did this guy just have a title with no wealth? > > At the least, I'd like to know his first name! > > Would sks please provide some insight? > > Thanks guys! > > Ed. > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >