Hi Celia, This information is very helpful. Although I have read a lot of English history, I had no idea that the PRs were destroyed, in some cases, during the Civil War. The area of YKS where I usually work does not have this problem. I am hoping that my Horseman/Horsman family are registering births and marriages somewhere that the PRs were not destroyed. Sadly, I may be done. I will do the wills of the Masham peculiar for this period and I may find someone and I will also check out some adjacent parishes. I have the NIPR for West Riding and I checked it out for Kirkby Malzeard. I realize that this time period is really distant for many but it is where I am stuck on many of my English families. Of course, as Quakers, my family were dissenters and I have been searching the Quaker records of YKS for them. I have one more Monthly Meeting to search. Living in Stonebeck Down (my guess), I am thinking maybe their records are in the Richmond Monthly Meeting. Of course, this process is iterative and the Stonebeck Down location just came to me a month ago. Janet Sugden Thomas On Dec 29, 2009, at 8:04 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: York records ([email protected]) > 2. Re: WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 327 (janet thomas) > 3. Re: WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 327 (Celia Renshaw) > 4. Re: WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 328 (Ron Costello) > 5. Re: WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 328 - For Ron > (sally roberts) > 6. Re: WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 328 (Celia Renshaw) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 03:56:41 -0500 > From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WRY] York records > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Thank you, Sally: yes, I've got all these births noted but they seem > to me (without spending money on certificates) to be a different > Crowther-Broadbent family. Irving married Ethel on Boxing Day 1914 > in Sowerby, Halifax but they immediately went to live in Newcastle, > so I'd expect births to be there. Certainly the 1912 one isn't to my > couple, implying that there certainly was at least one more such > family. I didn't find any name pattern for either Irving's nor > Ethel's families, either, so these names are on the back boiler. > > I went through all the military records to tie in with any Irving > Crowthers (I know of around 8-10 in the period), and none of them > fit. There was even one Irving who was practically a neighbour, if > you can call Northowram and Ovenden neighbours, but completely > unrelated. Another ended up in Trenton New Jersey as a potter!! > > Right now I'm pinning my hopes on that death in York, and maybe I'll > check out if there was a will, that might be the simplest way forward. > > best wishes > Maggie > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sally roberts <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:59 > Subject: Re: [WRY] York records > > > > Hi Maggie, > > On freebmd they have these entries for Crowther children born with a > mother's > maiden name of Broadbent... > > Births Jun 1912 Crowther Clarice Broadbent Bradford 9b 160 > Births Mar 1915 Crowther Edith Broadbent Bradford 9b 197 > Births Jun 1915 Crowther Jack Broadbent Holbeck 9b 919 > Births Mar 1923 Crowther Jack B Broadbent Bradford 9b 146 > > Are you aware of any of Irving's family names that may have been > given to his > children? > > Have you tried looking for Military records? Have you ruled out this > chap, for > example? > > Name: Irving Crowther > Residence: Halifax > Death Date: 27 Mar 1918 > Enlistment Location: Huddersfield, Yorks > Rank: Private > Regiment: Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire Regiment) > Battalion: 15/17th Battalion. > Number: 41625 > Type of Casualty: Killed in action > Theatre of War: Aldershot > > Regards, > Sally > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of > the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 05:06:44 -0500 > From: janet thomas <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 327 > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Hi Colin, > > I would expect registers prior to 1653 because the parish was an > ancient one. Why do the records start so late? Alternately, I was > wondering was whether a nearby parish would have been a spot for > marriages, baptisms, etc. Or perhaps, the records were lost or just in > terrible condition (like Haworth - a constant frustration for me)? > What I find in London research is that parishes come and go as the > City changes. In YKS, there is not the same level of growth and > change, but there are churches created in the 1700s and 1800s > particularly. Is there some other place to look for records for > someone living in Stonebeck Down in the 1670s? > > Janet > > > On Dec 26, 2009, at 3:01 AM, [email protected] wrote: > >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Kirkby Malzeard Parish Registers/Marmaduke Horseman >> (Colin Hinson) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 10:51:05 +0000 >> From: Colin Hinson <[email protected]> >> Subject: [WRY] Kirkby Malzeard Parish Registers/Marmaduke Horseman >> To: [email protected] >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> Hi Janet, >> Have you information that would lead you to believe that there were >> parish registers before 1653 ? 1653 is the earliest date in Colin >> Blanshard Withers's book and would probably be correct for the start >> of the registers. Kirkby Malzeard was an ancient parish and so the >> records would be there (i.e. at the parish church) as opposed to >> Pateley Bridge which was a chapelry of Ripon. (See the Genuki pages >> for more information). >> >> Best wishes, >> Colin Hinson >> >> In the village of Blunham in Bedfordshire U.K. >> Webmaster for the Genuki Yorkshire pages: >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ >> Old and Rare Yorkshire Books on searchable CDroms: >> http://www.YorkshireCDbooks.com >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>> Does anyone know what happened to the Kirkby Malzeard PRs for the >>> years prior to 1653? Are they just lost or were they recorded >>> somewhere else, like Patley Bridge? >>> >>> I am searching for a Marmaduke Horseman (Quaker) who went to New >>> Jersey in 1679 with a family (dau Susannah b. abt 1665 - m. 1686 in >>> NJ) and I think that he may have been from Kirkby Malzeard. I find 2 >>> Marmaduke Horsemans in the 1672 Hearth Tax rolls living in Stonebeck >>> Down, which is in Kirkby Malzeard parish. There are no other >>> Marmaduke >>> Horsemans in the Hearth Tax rolls in West YKS in 1672. There should >>> be >>> a marriage and birth of children in England. I have looked at the >>> Kirkby Malzeard PR transcripts and do not find the family. Now, I >>> have >>> not looked at the original registers, so I do not know what they >>> look >>> like or whether there are huge gaps. Has anyone seen the actual >>> registers? Of course, part of the problem may be the Interregnum >>> but I >>> many events would have been prior to that, including Marmaduke's >>> birth. >>> >>> Interestingly, there is a Marmaduke Horseman who was hung at York >>> Castle in 1670 for murdering a gamekeeper. One of the Marmaduke >>> Horseman Stonebeck Down hearths was "empty" in 1672. Perhaps the >>> murder Marmaduke? >>> >>> By the way, the IGI gives a marriage for the Quaker Marmaduke >>> Horseman >>> in 1634 in Keighley. The Keighley PR entry from the transcript gives >>> no more information than the date of the marriage and name of the >>> parties. The date and location seem wrong to me for this Marmaduke >>> Horseman. >>> >>> There are also several Marmaduke Horsemans in the baptisms at Ripon >>> in >>> the 1620s and 30s who could be the right one, but who knows? I have >>> not found a will that clears that up for me. >>> >>> Merry Christmas to All, >>> Janet Sugden Thomas, Stamford CT >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To contact the WEST-RIDING list administrator, send an email to >> [email protected] >> >> To post a message to the WEST-RIDING mailing list, send an email to [email protected] >> . >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the >> email with no additional text. >> >> >> End of WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 327 >> ******************************************* > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 10:57:31 -0000 > From: "Celia Renshaw" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 327 > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Janet, there can be a variety of reasons for the registers of > ancient > parishes to only run from a mid-17th century date. One of the most > common > is that the registers dating up to the 1650s were lost in the Civil > War, > either destroyed, or taken away and never returned. Here in > Derbyshire > there aren't many parishes with registers (or even BTs) before the > 1650s, > which makes things incredibly difficult. I've been told the reason > for this > is destruction of records at the Diocesan HQ in Lichfield during the > fighting, as well as loss of records in parishes themselves. > > It's worth asking the relevant Archives responsible for your > parishes of > interest for a history of those registers, or you can look in the > Society of > Genealogists National Index of Parish Registers (series of slim county > volumes, available in libraries, or to purchase). GENUKI pages for > Yorkshire parishes usually give the dates of surviving PRs and BTs > too. > > If the non-existence of early PRs is not the problem, there are a > number of > other possibilities. As you say, the family may have used another > nearby > parish. (GENUKI gives a list of nearby places for each location.) > They may > also have been dissenters, or they may have moved about between > religious > affiliations, as many people chose or were forced to do during the > 17th > century. So it's also worth looking at whatever non-conformist > records > exist for your parish and wider area (Archives will tell you). Early > dissenters often travelled considerable distances to the nearest > available > meeting, which may even have been in an adjoining county. > > Hope this helps. > > Celia Renshaw > In Chesterfield UK > Bringing lost ancestors home: www.morganhold.com > Free strays database; affordable family research services > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of janet thomas > Sent: 29 December 2009 10:07 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 327 > > Hi Colin, > > I would expect registers prior to 1653 because the parish was an > ancient one. Why do the records start so late? Alternately, I was > wondering was whether a nearby parish would have been a spot for > marriages, baptisms, etc. Or perhaps, the records were lost or just in > terrible condition (like Haworth - a constant frustration for me)? > What I find in London research is that parishes come and go as the > City changes. In YKS, there is not the same level of growth and > change, but there are churches created in the 1700s and 1800s > particularly. Is there some other place to look for records for > someone living in Stonebeck Down in the 1670s? > > Janet > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 03:35:30 -0800 (PST) > From: Ron Costello <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 328 > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > I notice Sally referenced a free BMD?? What is this website > address?? I have been using the http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/ site > which only refers to the listing of a birth by childs name and does > not name the parents unless you buy a copy of the certificate and > have it sent to you. > > Would be very interested in learning more. > > Gratefully, > > Ron > > --- On Tue, 12/29/09, [email protected] <[email protected] > > wrote: > > From: [email protected] <[email protected] > > > Subject: WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 328 > To: [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 3:01 AM > > > > Today's Topics: > > ???1.? York records ([email protected]) > ???2. Re:? York records (sally roberts) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:47:38 EST > From: [email protected] > Subject: [WRY] York records > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Dear Listers, > > As it's quiet on the list, I hope you don't mind my asking about > records? > just outside the West Riding. I've got out of my depth! > > I'm tracking the life of Irving CROWTHER, born in Halifax 5 Feb > 1884. I? > have obtained the death certificate for an Irving CROWTHER for a > death on > first? of June 1967, correct age of 83 years. There really are very > few > candidates of? this name, so I'm reasonably confident this is my man. > > But frustratingly, he died as a result of being "struck by a motor > cycle? > whilst walking on the highway" and was taken to Poppleton Gate > Hospital, in? > York. There was an inquest: the certificate was received by the > Registrar > from? the Coroner for the City of York, and makes no mention of > family members > at all.? His address is given as 33 Boroughbridge Road York, but I > have no > addresses for? him between then and 1914 when he lived in Newcastle > on Tyne, > so can't use that? for continuity. If I can confirm any family > members, I > think I can accept this? is my man and make further checks - I'd > like to > know, for example, whether his? wife Ethel was still alive, and if > there were > any children. > > Can anyone please advise what newspapers would have carried the > report from > an inquest? or any funeral notice? I just don't know York at all, > and have > little to go on, so absolutely any suggestions are welcome! (I know, > the > first? one will be "join the York list"!!) > > Many thanks! > Maggie > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:59:16 +0000 > From: sally roberts <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [WRY] York records > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hi Maggie, > > On freebmd they have these entries for Crowther children born with a > mother's maiden name of Broadbent... > > Births Jun 1912 Crowther? Clarice? Broadbent? Bradford? 9b 160 > Births Mar 1915 Crowther? Edith? Broadbent? Bradford? 9b 197 > Births Jun 1915 Crowther? Jack? Broadbent? Holbeck? 9b 919 > Births Mar 1923 Crowther? Jack B? Broadbent? Bradford? 9b 146 > > Are you aware of any of Irving's family names that may have been > given to his children? > > Have you tried looking for Military records? Have you ruled out this > chap, for example? > > Name: Irving Crowther > Residence: Halifax > Death Date: 27 Mar 1918 > Enlistment Location: Huddersfield, Yorks > Rank: Private > Regiment: Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire Regiment) > Battalion: 15/17th Battalion. > Number: 41625 > Type of Casualty: Killed in action > Theatre of War: Aldershot > > Regards, > Sally ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the WEST-RIDING list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the WEST-RIDING mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > . > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 328 > ******************************************* > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 12:28:02 +0000 > From: sally roberts <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 328 - For Ron > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hi Ron, > > Mother's maiden names were not officially recorded in the index > until the September quarter of 1911. Some sites that transcribe bmd > databases have included mother's surnames prior to this date, but > it's a rare service :o) > > The freebmd website address is: http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl > and this will take you directly to the search page. The Ancestry > website appears to have the most complete databases for bmd > information, but this is on a subscription basis and not part of its > free to search records. > > Regards, > Sally > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 03:35:30 -0800 >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 328 >> >> I notice Sally referenced a free BMD? What is this website address? >> I have been using the http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/ site which >> only refers to the listing of a birth by childs name and does not >> name the parents unless you buy a copy of the certificate and have >> it sent to you. >> >> Would be very interested in learning more. >> >> Gratefully, >> >> Ron >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:02:53 -0000 > From: "Celia Renshaw" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 328 > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Ron, FreeBMD is at www.freebmd.org.uk but it only gives the same > info as > the GRO indexes themselves so you won't find more details than those > available from Yorkshirebmd, until you look at births after 1911 when > mother's maiden name was included in the indexes. > > Celia Renshaw > In Chesterfield UK > Bringing lost ancestors home: www.morganhold.com > Free strays database; affordable family research services > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Costello > Sent: 29 December 2009 11:36 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 328 > > I notice Sally referenced a free BMD?? What is this website > address?? I have > been using the http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/ site which only > refers to the > listing of a birth by childs name and does not name the parents > unless you > buy a copy of the certificate and have it sent to you. > > Would be very interested in learning more. > > Gratefully, > > Ron > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the WEST-RIDING list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the WEST-RIDING mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > . > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 4, Issue 329 > *******************************************