I thought that a true copy had some sort of stamp or seal on the certificate? A friend in England sent me a jpg of one and it had a stamp at the very bottom right corner. Clarification! thanks

From: CINFIN@aol.com > What is the best way to pay for the certificates? Do they accept faxed > forms with cc#'s? I am in the US. > > Cindy> The General Register Office take credit cards. I presume that most local register offices do also but there may be some that don't. It can differ from place to place. -- Roy Stockdill Editor, Journal of One-Name Studies Guild of One-Name Studies website: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Just to clarify on this: Since 1837 churches have had to keep two copies of each marriage register. At the beginning of January, April, July and October the minister has to send a return to the local superintendent registrar of all marriages in the preceding quarter. The return may in practice be completed by a parish clerk, but it has to be signed by the minister. The layout of the form is more or less identical to that of the marriage register. The superintendent registrar collates the forms from his/her district and sends them to the General Register Office. Copies of these returns might be kept at the register office (I don't know), but even if they are, they can't be used to produce certificates: a certificate produced by anyone other than the GRO can relate only to an entry in a register. (Have you ever noticed - GRO certificates are "Certified to be a true copy of an entry in the certified copy of a register of Marriages in the Registration District of ....", whereas those from a local registrar or a minister are "Certified to be a true copy of an entry in a register in my custody".) Since a superintendent registrar cannot issue a certificate relating to an entry in a register which he does not have, as long as the marriage registers are still in use certificates can be obtained from the minister of the church concerned. However, since they don't have the right equipment, ministers would not be able to provide a certificate showing an original signature. When church marriage registers are full, one copy has to be deposited with the superintendent registrar and the other one remains the responsibility of the minister and local church. It is recommended, and usually happens, that it is then deposited in the Diocesan Record Office - usually the County Record Office. Arthur ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda" <ellis-b@sky.com> To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WRY] Local REgistry Office vs General Registry Office > Hello Judith > I was talking about the Parish Register which is kept in the church. In a > book I have on this subject, it states that the parish clerk made a copy > to > send to the registry office. If you are lucky you will get a copy from the > parish register, but otherwise you will get the copy the parish clerk > wrote > out. > In my own case, my signature & that of my husband is in the Church's > register. The copy we were given to keep had been written out previously, > with our signatures copied & only the two witnesses signed again. > Regards > Brenda

Hello Judith Not all Parish Registers have been deposited at the Record Offices. This unfortunately inludes the village of some of my ancestors in Lincolnshire. I can get copies of the certificates, but not the original. Regards Brenda

Hello Judith I was talking about the Parish Register which is kept in the church. In a book I have on this subject, it states that the parish clerk made a copy to send to the registry office. If you are lucky you will get a copy from the parish register, but otherwise you will get the copy the parish clerk wrote out. In my own case, my signature & that of my husband is in the Church's register. The copy we were given to keep had been written out previously, with our signatures copied & only the two witnesses signed again. Regards Brenda

From: MaggieMole@aol.com > Can someone tell me something about the IGI batch number system > please? I am putting all the baptismal entries for my CROWTHER line > in Sowerby, Halifax, into a spreadsheet for easier pattern > identification. So far I have restricted > myself to IGI batches starting with C, J or K - the two latter > splitting > some sections into male and female. I have been told that batches > beginning with any other letter have been done by individuals and are > not too reliable. However, today I found a batch numbered 7813533, > which contains too many CROWTHER entries for me to ignore. Is it a > good idea to incorporate these into my sheet? I would still ID them > with the batch number. What is reliable in the IGI and what isn't? > > Sorry to be ignorant about this! > > Maggie Berry I have written an explanation of batch numbers in the IGI section of my Newbies' Guide which you may find useful. Basically, baptismal entries starting with C, J or K are official extractions from either the parish registers or bishop's transcripts and can usually be relied upon. However, it's always advisable, if possible, to look at the originals since they very often contain extra information. All-numerical batch numbers are private LDS member submissions and, whilst they quite often are accurate, there are an awful lot of dodgy ones in there as well - often just a wild guess or invention! Unfortunately, there is no way of telling which are which. I have asked the LDS why they could not state the source on these submissions, but I've never yet had a satisfactory explanation. The thing you have to remember always about the IGI is that, at root, it is not done for the benefit of non-member family historians but for their own religious purposes. For this reason, it seems to me they do not apply the same standards of evidence that we do. -- Roy Stockdill Editor, Journal of One-Name Studies Guild of One-Name Studies website: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi Maggie If you go to http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htmu Hugh Wallis has wrritten about batch numbers as well as providing direct links. The batch you noted 7813533 - if you click on an individual entry and then on Source call at bottom of entry you will be taken to page which tells that this batch is a patrons submission. Possibly correct but would suggest you check with copy of original registers. Cheers Jean -----Original Message----- From: west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of MaggieMole@aol.com Sent: 24 August 2007 17:17 To: west-riding@rootsweb.com Subject: [WRY] IGI batches Dear Listers, Can someone tell me something about the IGI batch number system please? I am putting all the baptismal entries for my CROWTHER line in Sowerby, Halifax, into a spreadsheet for easier pattern identification. So far I have restricted myself to IGI batches starting with C, J or K - the two latter splitting some sections into male and female. I have been told that batches beginning with any other letter have been done by individuals and are not too reliable. However, today I found a batch numbered 7813533, which contains too many CROWTHER entries for me to ignore. Is it a good idea to incorporate these into my sheet? I would still ID them with the batch number. What is reliable in the IGI and what isn't? Sorry to be ignorant about this! Maggie Berry ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 8/24/2007 4:57:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, roy.stockdill@btinternet.com writes: he General Register Office take credit cards. I presume that most local register offices do also but there may be some that don't. It can differ from place to place. Thanks, Cindy ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

What is the best way to pay for the certificates? Do they accept faxed forms with cc#'s? I am in the US. Cindy ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From: "Judith Kettlewell" <judith.kettlewell@btinternet.com> > Could I also add a point to Roy's message that there is a certain > company who offer to get certificates for you and they ALWAYS call the > Register Office - Registry Office. Keep away from anyone offering > certs from a REGISTRY Office. > > A local REGISTER OFFICE charges 7GBP for a certificate. > > I believe that the company offering REGISTRY Office certificates > charges around 27GBP.> Excellent point, Judith. These people should be avoided like the plague. There is one particular outfit that has established websites linked to virtually every register office in the country and done it so cleverly that they often come up top of the list with a Google search. They have also made the sites look like the official register office. However, as you say, they charge something like FOUR times the amount for a certificate that anyone can obtain for themselves from either the GRO or the local registrar. I considered a complaint to the Trading Standards people but couldn't get them sufficiently interested to pursue it. -- Roy Stockdill Editor, Journal of One-Name Studies Guild of One-Name Studies website: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

That is a good point Judith, I have often been a bit miffed that I wasn't looking at a copy of the original. Sometimes the person who makes the copy also makes a mistake. I may change for just that reason. Thanks for you two penn'worth Judith, [we usually have two bobs worth down here] Thanks again. Mary > Hello > > I always order mine from the local register office but as I live in England it > is easier than if you live abroad. > > My main reason for ordering from the local office is that you get a copy of > the original certificate. From the GRO you only get a copy of a copy. > > Not all local offices take payment by Credit/Debit Card tho' but Leeds > Register Office does so I would always go there wherever I lived. > > Three days max is the normal delivery time for them but again that is if it is > mailed to someone here. > > A lot of the local offices take credit card payments over the phone but not > online. > > I would never order a marriage certificate from the GRO because you get a copy > of a copy whereas if you order from a local office you get a photocopy of the > original complete with your ancestors signatures unless, of course, they could > not write. > > Just one more thing - if the certificate that you have applied for is not the > right one and does not agree with details you have given you get a FULL refund > from the local office. The GRO keeps part of the payment for the search. > > Just my two penn'orth but I would go local every time. > > Kind regards > > Judith K > > Mary Heppell <heppell2@bigpond.com> wrote: > Hello Carol, > > I order my certs. from the GRO and when I call them you can choose to > receive them within a week or choose a cheaper 8 ponds and that takes about > two weeks. I usually order the 8 ponds order. > > I live in Australia. > > Mary > > > >> This may have been discussed before but does anyone know if there are >> advantages or disadvantages to request a birth certificate from the local >> Registry Office >> vs the General Registry Office. >> >> I have found my grandfather's birth record as well as marriage record in the >> Yorkshire area so they would be available through the Leeds Registry >> but I am wondering if someone could comment on this. >> >> Thank you kindly. >> >> Carol Ann Rigg (Canada) >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Could I also add a point to Roy's message that there is a certain company who offer to get certificates for you and they ALWAYS call the Register Office - Registry Office. Keep away from anyone offering certs from a REGISTRY Office. A local REGISTER OFFICE charges 7GBP for a certificate. I believe that the company offering REGISTRY Office certificates charges around 27GBP. Roy, I'm surprised you haven't begun a One Man Campaign to have the sign changed <vbg> Kind regards Judith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> To: <WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [WRY] Local Registry Office vs General Registry Office > From: "Carol Ann Pelletier" <carpel@nb.sympatico.ca> > >> Thank you to all for your comments. >> >> I will try the Leeds Registry Office as I would definitely prefer a >> copy of the original certificate and to see my grandfather's signature >> would be great. Thanks again. >> >> Carol Ann> > > No doubt I shall be accused of nitpicking, but could I just point out to > everyone that the correct term is local REGISTER Office, not registry? > And the proper title of the GRO is the General REGISTER Office. If you > don't believe me, go to their website. > > It is a very common error amongst the general public and even amongst > those in authority (we have road signs in Watford, Herts, where I live, > for > instance, pointing to "Watford Registry Office") but I wouldn't expect > family historians to make it. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Editor, Journal of One-Name Studies > Guild of One-Name Studies website: www.one-name.org > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Roy, Thank you - I read your article, as ever, clear and authoritative. At least the entries in this particular batch number are all identified as Sowerby St Peters, so I can do some checking with the actual register. Gordon Dyson has offered to help with this, but I hesitate to put such a large task on anyone else! The big probelm, which i'm sure you've come across in other cases, is of first names repeating generation after generation. So you get families which can't really be identified without a monther's name, and getting the right relationships is very difficult. I don't want to be casual about this, so it's good to know where checking is essential. And I may still not get one definitive truth at the end of it! best wishes Maggie >>I have written an explanation of batch numbers in the IGI section of my Newbies' Guide which you may find useful. >>Basically, baptismal entries starting with C, J or K are official extractions from either the parish registers or bishop's transcripts and can usually be relied upon. However, it's always advisable, if possible, to look at the originals since they very often contain extra information. >>All-numerical batch numbers are private LDS member submissions and, whilst they quite often are accurate, there are an awful lot of dodgy ones in there as well - often just a wild guess or invention! Unfortunately, there is no way of telling which are which. I have asked the LDS why they could not state the source on these submissions, but I've never yet had a satisfactory explanation. The thing you have to remember always about the IGI is that, at root, it is not done for the benefit of non-member family historians but for their own religious purposes. For this reason, it seems to me they do not apply the same standards of evidence that we do.

Hello Carol, I order my certs. from the GRO and when I call them you can choose to receive them within a week or choose a cheaper 8 ponds and that takes about two weeks. I usually order the 8 ponds order. I live in Australia. Mary > This may have been discussed before but does anyone know if there are > advantages or disadvantages to request a birth certificate from the local > Registry Office > vs the General Registry Office. > > I have found my grandfather's birth record as well as marriage record in the > Yorkshire area so they would be available through the Leeds Registry > but I am wondering if someone could comment on this. > > Thank you kindly. > > Carol Ann Rigg (Canada) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

From: "Carol Ann Pelletier" <carpel@nb.sympatico.ca> > Thank you to all for your comments. > > I will try the Leeds Registry Office as I would definitely prefer a > copy of the original certificate and to see my grandfather's signature > would be great. Thanks again. > > Carol Ann> No doubt I shall be accused of nitpicking, but could I just point out to everyone that the correct term is local REGISTER Office, not registry? And the proper title of the GRO is the General REGISTER Office. If you don't believe me, go to their website. It is a very common error amongst the general public and even amongst those in authority (we have road signs in Watford, Herts, where I live, for instance, pointing to "Watford Registry Office") but I wouldn't expect family historians to make it. -- Roy Stockdill Editor, Journal of One-Name Studies Guild of One-Name Studies website: www.one-name.org Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Thanks, Jean, I'll do that. Maggie If you go to http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htmu Hugh Wallis has wrritten about batch numbers as well as providing direct links.

Dear Listers, Can someone tell me something about the IGI batch number system please? I am putting all the baptismal entries for my CROWTHER line in Sowerby, Halifax, into a spreadsheet for easier pattern identification. So far I have restricted myself to IGI batches starting with C, J or K - the two latter splitting some sections into male and female. I have been told that batches beginning with any other letter have been done by individuals and are not too reliable. However, today I found a batch numbered 7813533, which contains too many CROWTHER entries for me to ignore. Is it a good idea to incorporate these into my sheet? I would still ID them with the batch number. What is reliable in the IGI and what isn't? Sorry to be ignorant about this! Maggie Berry

If you are not getting a photocopy of the marriage certificate from the local register office then you should ask for one in your application. Sometimes, local offices write them out themselves instead of photocopying the entry. All marriage certificates held in the local offices are originals. I have certificates dating from 1837 to present day with all but a couple with the original signatures. All different writing as can be seen, sometimes, in the painstaking scrawl of someone trying very hard to prove that they can write their own name. The only ones where all the writing is the same is where the local office has not bothered to photocopy the original. Perhaps I am lucky in that the majority of my certificates come from Yorkshire but I do have others as well. If you think the local office does not have the originals, who do you think does have them? Kind regards Judith Brenda <ellis-b@sky.com> wrote: Hello I have had many copies of certificates from the local Registry Office, but I would like to point out, that in the case of marriage certificates, it is not always your ancestor's signature. The certificates were copied by the parish clerk & sent to the registry offices, & it could be copies of these that are sent to you. If you look at the signatures on the certificates, you can see that sometimes they are all in the same writing. I have proof of this with one particular certificate, where the surname was spelt wrong. My grandparents just didn't spell their name this way. However an advantage of sending to a local registry office is, they don't send you a certificate if all your details don't match. Thus saving you wasting your money. Regards Brenda p.s. My own marriage certificate is a copy, the only original signatures are that of the two witnesses. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello I have had many copies of certificates from the local Registry Office, but I would like to point out, that in the case of marriage certificates, it is not always your ancestor's signature. The certificates were copied by the parish clerk & sent to the registry offices, & it could be copies of these that are sent to you. If you look at the signatures on the certificates, you can see that sometimes they are all in the same writing. I have proof of this with one particular certificate, where the surname was spelt wrong. My grandparents just didn't spell their name this way. However an advantage of sending to a local registry office is, they don't send you a certificate if all your details don't match. Thus saving you wasting your money. Regards Brenda p.s. My own marriage certificate is a copy, the only original signatures are that of the two witnesses.

Thank you to all for your comments. I will try the Leeds Registry Office as I would definitely prefer a copy of the original certificate and to see my grandfather's signature would be great. Thanks again. Carol Ann