'ello, Elaine, Of course Lesley is correct, there just MAY be further info. on the actual Marriage fiche. I am 95% certain that we (Calderdale FHS) have the fiche for 1813 at our Research Room at Brigouse Library, but I will not be going there again until Tuesday Jan. 8th 2008 when I will look for you. However, I have found that in many cases, the witnesses are Church Wardens, and of no use in your researches. Do you have Samuel (age 58) and Mary, 62, in the 1851 census ? if not, I can send you details. Regards, Gordon. ======================================== Message Received: Dec 20 2007, 01:40 AM From: Lesleyabernethy@aol.com To: west-riding@rootsweb.com Cc: elaine.sykes@sympatico.ca Subject: Re: [WRY] Bottomley - again Elaine wrote: > Thanks Gordon that's great - but I was hoping for so much > more!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Back to the drawing board. > > Elaine > > 'ello, Elaine, > Can't help with Hartshead, but the Halifax Marriage (20 Sep 1813) just > states .... Samuel BOTTOMLEY, Cardmaker, of Dewsbury, to Mary DRAKE > of Brighouse, by Banns. Nothing else. Regards, Gordon.> Hi Elaine I suspect that the information Gordon kindly supplied is from a transcript of St John's registers. If anyone has access to fiche/film of the actual registers they may be able to help you with details such as witnesses, whether either party was widowed, and whether bride or groom, or both, was able to sign the marriage register. I have a collection of St John's fiche, (purchased from West Yorkshire Archive Services), but sadly I have marriages only up to 1801, so cannot help you further. The WYAS reference for fiche for St John's marriages 1813-1814 is D53/1/46. This is a packet of 6 fiche which would cost £7.20 to purchase. Best wishes, Lesley ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Andy What about the Kaye's of Denby, which was in the parish of Kirkheaton. The Kaye's of denby, were Sir John Lister Kaye, I have not found very many CLAPHAMS at Kirkheaton, but there is a family of Clapham's at Clifton and there is a lot of burials at Hartshead, The Armytage's of Kirklees is spelt ARMYTAGE and Armitage's of Milnsbridge is Spelt ARMITAGE. The Kay's Armytage, Beaumont's were all related in some way. Steve www.kirkheaton-ops.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Micklethwaite" <jna74m@dsl.pipex.com> To: <geedee@fsmail.net>; <west-riding@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 11:53 AM Subject: [WRY] KAYE of Kirklees - was - Re: Malcolm Bull's Calderdale Companion > It's a pity there isn't a similar site to Malcolm's for Huddersfield! Ed > Law's site http://homepage.eircom.net/~lawedd/index.htm on the titled of > Huddersfield is quite informative. Are there any others? I was told my > great grandmother Sarah CLAPHAM was a lady's maid to Lady KAYE of Kirklees > Hall before she married in 1880 - however in 1881 ARMITAGEs were in > Kirklees Hall not KAYEs, so I was looking to find the truth behind the > legend. Malcolm's site does mention the Armitages of Kirklees. I've also > found Armitages at Milnsbridge where Sarah's stepmother Emma HARPIN was a > maid in 1871. So was it Armitages at Kirklees or Kayes somewhere else? > Looking for any clues you can offer! > > Best Wishes, Andy. > > At 23:48 09/12/2007, you wrote: >>Try.... http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/calderdale/index.html it just >>worked for me. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

From: "Roy Stockdill" <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> > From: Bill <eubil@bigpond.com> > > ...long snip of earlier messages..... > > > Small bit bit of info on the KAYE'S OF Kirklees. John > > ARMYTAGE OF Farnley Tyas b1520 died 1573 Ireland >> (murdered after a shipwreck) buried Farnley > > Tyas Yeoman, clothier, exporter married Elizabeth KAYE b Lockwood > > Almondsbury daughter of John Kaye. > > > Bill Mirfield > > Avoca Beach > > Nsw > > Ps also a ARMITAGE descendant. < > > The date of John Kaye's death, BTW, given in the > caption as 1574, may well technically be correct if his death took > place in the Jan 1-March 24 period of 1573/4, thus either year would > be correct.> Apologies! I seem to have confused John Armytage with John Kaye there. Never mind - the context is still relevant. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

From: Bill <eubil@bigpond.com> ...long snip of earlier messages..... > Small bit bit of info on the KAYE'S OF Kirklees. John ARMYTAGE > OF Farnley Tyas b1520 > died 1573 Ireland (murdered after a shipwreck) buried Farnley > Tyas Yeoman, clothier, exporter married Elizabeth KAYE b Lockwood > Almondsbury daughter of John Kaye. > Bill Mirfield > Avoca Beach > Nsw > Ps also a ARMITAGE descendant. < Those with KAYE descent from this particular family may be interested to know that the front cover of a superb book by Dr George Redmonds (the doyen of Yorkshire surname historians) entitled "Surnames and Genealogy: A New Approach" - which should be on everybody's Christmas wish list - bears a reproduction of a panel that used to hang in the family home, Woodsome Hall. The caption inside the front cover reads: "This is one of four genealogical panels that formerly hung in the main hall at Woodsome, near Huddersfield. It shows John Kaye with his numerous children and was probably painted soon after his feather's death in 1574 [sic]". The original panels would now appear to be in the Tolson Memorial Museum, Huddersfield. The date of John Kaye's death, BTW, given in the caption as 1574, may well technically be correct if his death took place in the Jan 1-March 24 period of 1573/4, thus either year would be correct. By one of those curious coincidences that seem to afflict genealogy, I myself lived briefly at Woodsome Hall as a youth in the 1950s! It has been for many years a golf club and my parents were stewards there for about a year. We were there for just one Christmas and had Christmas dinner in the magnificent main hall. It was in a sense a wonderful place to live - a superb old mansion out in the countryside - but neither my parents nor I could stand the snobbery of the golfers! I can supply a scanned image of the book cover if anyone's interested. However, I urge you to get the book because George Redmonds is an academic who writes in a down-to-earth way and "Surnames and Genealogy: A New Approach" is a seminal work. If you really want to understand how surnames developed, especially in Yorkshire, and the importance of the fluidity of surname spellings and aliases, then treat yourself! You will never read another book on Yorkshire surnames like it. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

There are some memorial inscriptions for Hartshead St Peters (and some other cemeteries in the Kirklees area) at http://www.graveyardproject.co.uk/ They aren't complete, but you may get lucky and find yours there. It's a slightly confusing website as rather than click on the'cemeteries' link to search, you need to click on the 'surname' link and then you'll be able to see what there is St Peters had burials from 1612 to 1964 and the chapelry also covered Clifton. Ruth Elaine Sykes <elaine.sykes@sympatico.ca> wrote: Could anyone advise where someone who died living in Hartshead or Clifton would have been buried in the mid-1860's? ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

Samuel and Mary Bottomley likely died between the 1861 and 1871 census aged 67 and 66 respectively in the 1861 census. Thanks Elaine > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:21:44 -0800 (PST) > From: Denise Valadez <neesyval@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [WRY] Hartshead. > To: west-riding@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <617139.90013.qm@web50501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Possibly St John's, Coley. Who are you looking for? > > Denise V > > > Elaine Sykes <elaine.sykes@sympatico.ca> wrote: > Could anyone advise where someone who died living in Hartshead or Clifton > would have been buried in the mid-1860's? > > Thanks as ever. > > Elaine >

Thanks for this. Rather than purchase the fiche, I will order the film together with the Hartshead ones from my local LDS. Thanks again for your help. Elaine ----- Original Message ----- From: Lesleyabernethy@aol.com To: west-riding@rootsweb.com Cc: elaine.sykes@sympatico.ca Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:08 AM Subject: Re: Bottomley - again Elaine wrote: > Thanks Gordon that's great - but I was hoping for so much > more!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Back to the drawing board. > > Elaine > > 'ello, Elaine, > Can't help with Hartshead, but the Halifax Marriage (20 Sep 1813) just > states .... Samuel BOTTOMLEY, Cardmaker, of Dewsbury, to Mary DRAKE > of Brighouse, by Banns. Nothing else. Regards, Gordon.> Hi Elaine I suspect that the information Gordon kindly supplied is from a transcript of St John's registers. If anyone has access to fiche/film of the actual registers they may be able to help you with details such as witnesses, whether either party was widowed, and whether bride or groom, or both, was able to sign the marriage register. I have a collection of St John's fiche, (purchased from West Yorkshire Archive Services), but sadly I have marriages only up to 1801, so cannot help you further. The WYAS reference for fiche for St John's marriages 1813-1814 is D53/1/46. This is a packet of 6 fiche which would cost £7.20 to purchase. Best wishes, Lesley

Wouldn't Saint Peter's Hartshead be a more obvious choice? Regards Malcolm Bull

Elaine wrote: > Thanks Gordon that's great - but I was hoping for so much > more!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Back to the drawing board. > > Elaine > > 'ello, Elaine, > Can't help with Hartshead, but the Halifax Marriage (20 Sep 1813) just > states .... Samuel BOTTOMLEY, Cardmaker, of Dewsbury, to Mary DRAKE > of Brighouse, by Banns. Nothing else. Regards, Gordon.> Hi Elaine I suspect that the information Gordon kindly supplied is from a transcript of St John's registers. If anyone has access to fiche/film of the actual registers they may be able to help you with details such as witnesses, whether either party was widowed, and whether bride or groom, or both, was able to sign the marriage register. I have a collection of St John's fiche, (purchased from West Yorkshire Archive Services), but sadly I have marriages only up to 1801, so cannot help you further. The WYAS reference for fiche for St John's marriages 1813-1814 is D53/1/46. This is a packet of 6 fiche which would cost £7.20 to purchase. Best wishes, Lesley

----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine Sykes" <elaine.sykes@sympatico.ca> To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> Cc: "Elaine Sykes" <elaine.sykes@sympatico.ca> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:11 PM Subject: [WRY] Hartshead. Hi Elaine, try Birstal St Peters Parish Church. Janet > Could anyone advise where someone who died living in Hartshead or Clifton > would have been buried in the mid-1860's? > > Thanks as ever. > > Elaine > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1188 - Release Date: > 17/12/2007 14:13 > >

Thanks Janet - will do! Elaine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Ogden" <janet@janetsfamilies.f2s.com> To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> Cc: "Elaine Sykes" <elaine.sykes@sympatico.ca> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [WRY] Hartshead. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elaine Sykes" <elaine.sykes@sympatico.ca> > To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Cc: "Elaine Sykes" <elaine.sykes@sympatico.ca> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:11 PM > Subject: [WRY] Hartshead. > > Hi Elaine, > try Birstal St Peters Parish Church. Janet > > >> Could anyone advise where someone who died living in Hartshead or Clifton >> would have been buried in the mid-1860's? >> >> Thanks as ever. >> >> Elaine >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1188 - Release Date: >> 17/12/2007 14:13 >> >>

Why were you hoping for more? If you were expecting the parents' names, forget it. In my experience these very rarely - indeed, if ever - were given in the parish registers. There was no statutory requirement to record them. I would, however, have expected in 1813 to see the marital status of the parties (i.e. bachelor and spinster, widowed etc), the names of witnesses (sometimes useful, sometimes not) and whether the groom and bride signed their names or made their mark with a cross. -- Roy: I was looking for more for the exact reasons that you state in your email - marital status of the parties, names of witnesses perhaps or any other information. I am quite well aware that there was no statutory obligation to provide information in addition to that Gord has kindly provided me, but I am also aware that on occasion some ministers, provided a few additional facts. Elaine Sykes

Could anyone advise where someone who died living in Hartshead or Clifton would have been buried in the mid-1860's? Thanks as ever. Elaine

Possibly St John's, Coley. Who are you looking for? Denise V Elaine Sykes <elaine.sykes@sympatico.ca> wrote: Could anyone advise where someone who died living in Hartshead or Clifton would have been buried in the mid-1860's? Thanks as ever. Elaine ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Just to add to the list of Bottomleys, I have a Kezia BOTTOMLEY, b. c 1805, m. John FIRTH 6/11/1825 in St Chad's Rochdale, d. 1847. She was probably came from Saddleworth but moved to Marsden nr Huddersfield after marrying (her eldest daughter, my gggrandmother Jane, was born in Saddleworth, but the other children were all born in Marsden). I haven't managed to trace Kezia's origins so far so would be interested if anyone else with BOTTOMLEYs has any relevant info. Thanks Steve > -----Original Message----- > From: west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:west-riding- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elaine Sykes > Sent: 17 December 2007 20:53 > To: WEST-RIDING-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [WRY] BOTTOMLEY -again > > Thanks so much to those who responded to my request, especially Christine who > has been amazingly helpful. > > Elizabeth Bottomley was my great great grandmother. Sadly there are no details of > her residence or father when she married Henry Skellorn on Aug 16 1847 at St. > Mary's Oldham, and I am currently awaiting her death certificate. All entries on > censuses showed her birthplace as either Clifton or Hartshead, and she returned to > Clifton for the birth of her eldest daughter. > > Per the IGI an Elizabeth Bottomley was christened on Aug 30 1828 at Hartshead > Chapel in the Parish of Dewsbury - as were her siblings. Does anyone have > access to these registers and could provide me with details. > > According to the IGI, Samuel Bottomley married Mary Drake of Shelf in Halifax on > Sep 20 1813. Does anyone have access to the Halifax registers who could do a > look up for me. I'd love to know the details. > > Neither of the IGI references are patron submissions - therefore probably quite > reliable. > > Grateful for any and all help. > > Warm regards from snowbound Toronto. > > Elaine > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message

Hello Maggie Over the last few years I have done quite a lot of transcribing of parish registers & in every instance where I could check Josh has been short for Joseph. When Josiah was intended or Joshua it was usually written in full. Maybe Yorkshire scribes had different ideas though. best wishes Marjorie Ward Derbyshire, UK Hollingworth ONS www.hollingworths.net Sources for Disley; Lyme Handley; Taxal & Whaley www.disley.net Sources for NWDby incl. Chapel; Charlesworth; Chinley; Fernilee; Glossop; Hayfield; Hope Valley; Mellor & New Mills http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dusk

At 00:30 18/12/2007, you wrote: >.....there is always a grain of truth, but the story tends to get >muddled. So true! Many Thanks, Andy

Thank you, Marjorie. So if Josh. isn't Joshua, Josa. must be? And I would not be at all surprised to find that Yorkshire scribes had "different ideas"! Maggie >>Over the last few years I have done quite a lot of transcribing of parish registers & in every instance where I could check Josh has been short for Joseph. When Josiah was intended or Joshua it was usually written in full. Maybe Yorkshire scribes had different ideas though.

Perfectly true, David, thank you for reminding me. Sometimes I think our ancestors deliberately made our lives difficult ... Maggie >>It would appear from the IGI that within the same Josa. Barker family are two births just 4 months apart, so something's wrong - >>Maggie..............remember that the registers are Baptismal records, not birth registers; some families delayed for years having children baptised and then did them in batches ! Unless the register also states the DoB, you can never be quite sure >>David..................also having problems with Josiah/Jonas/Joseph !!

In a message dated 18/12/2007 10:08:25 GMT Standard Time, MaggieMole@aol.com writes: It would appear from the IGI that within the same Josa. Barker family are two births just 4 months apart, so something's wrong - Maggie..............remember that the registers are Baptismal records, not birth registers; some families delayed for years having children baptised and then did them in batches ! Unless the register also states the DoB, you can never be quite sure David..................also having problems with Josiah/Jonas/Joseph !!