Hi Richard and list Cleckheaton does have coverage in the Huddersfield and District FHS. try : http://www.hdfhs.org.uk/places/townships/townships.htm for their coverage and the rest of the web site. Regards Roger west-riding-request@rootsweb.com wrote: Message: 5 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 18:15:55 -0000 From: "richard ellis" Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Janet I noted that your "involvement" with Bradford family history as well as Huddersfield and Saddleworth.... and wondered whether you could help at all with my ELLIS ancestors in Cleckheaton? I should explain that I am part of group of living relatives who have an ancestral ELLIS family associated with Gildersome near Leeds (my grandfather) as well as Cleckheaton - and earlier in 16c-18c times with Dinnington the far side of Rotherham. One of the above group has some truly fascinating records relating to a John ELLIS,1836-1901, cabinet maker and carpenter in Cleckheaton. Our group has already collected additional information such as old maps and plan to get hold of a recent reprint of a book about the Spen Valley. I have talked to the librarian at Cleckheaton library, and am in touch with a Ken Chaplin, who seems to be helping out there on some Saturdays - but thought that you may have more/other knowledge of local sources! There does not seem to be a specific FH group associated with Cleckheaton?!.. and reckon that Huddersfield would not cover it? So...I'm looking for a little guidance to see how I/we can extend our enquiries - and possibly be others who may help. Unfortunately none of our "group" live anywhere near Cleckheaton - I'm in Woking Surrey, whilst others are in Formby Lancs, Cardiff,Cheltenham, and Skipton (latter works full-time) Hope this is of interest! Regards and Best wishes for the New Year Richard ps I must now get round to paying all those annual subs for FHS...Rotherham:Sheffield:Morley:Leicester:Barnsley(2)..to name some of them!

----- Original Message ----- From: "richard ellis" <richard@ellisresearch.demon.co.uk> To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers Hi Richard, the only thing I know is there are members in HFH Soc, why not contact them? I never ever go the Huddersfield I am Coordinator for 1891 and FreeREG as and when we get Par Regs we put them on FreeReg Site Regards Janet > Hello Janet > > I noted that your "involvement" with Bradford family > history as well as Huddersfield and Saddleworth.... > and wondered whether you could help at all with my > ELLIS ancestors in Cleckheaton? > > I should explain that I am part of group of living > relatives who have an ancestral ELLIS family associated > with Gildersome near Leeds (my grandfather) as well as > Cleckheaton - and earlier in 16c-18c times with Dinnington > the far side of Rotherham. > > One of the above group has some truly fascinating records > relating to a John ELLIS,1836-1901, cabinet maker and carpenter in > Cleckheaton. Our group has already collected additional > information such as old maps and plan to get hold of a recent > reprint of a book about the Spen Valley. > > I have talked to the librarian at Cleckheaton library, and am > in touch with a Ken Chaplin, who seems to be helping out there on > some Saturdays - but thought that you may have more/other knowledge > of local sources! > > There does not seem to be a specific FH group associated with > Cleckheaton?!.. and reckon that Huddersfield would not cover it? > > So...I'm looking for a little guidance to see how I/we can > extend our enquiries - and possibly be others who may help. > > Unfortunately none of our "group" live anywhere near Cleckheaton > - I'm in Woking Surrey, whilst others are in Formby Lancs, > Cardiff,Cheltenham, and Skipton (latter works full-time) > > Hope this is of interest! > > Regards and Best wishes for the New Year > > Richard > > ps I must now get round to paying all those annual subs for > FHS...Rotherham:Sheffield:Morley:Leicester:Barnsley(2)..to name > some of them! > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Janet Ogden > Sent: 01 January 2008 14:19 > To: west-riding@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roy Stockdill" <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> > To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 2:13 PM > Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers > > Hi Roy, > some of Otley Parish Registers are on FreeReg. Regards Janet > > Janet Ogden Project Officer for Bradford FHSoc., FreeCEN 1891 > Huddersfield > & Saddleworth Also for FreeREG Yorkshire > > >> From: "John Lindley" <jlindley41@sky.com> >> >>> Hi Elaine >>> >>> Do you know of the Picard's in Otley?> >> >> As listers know, I don't normally do look-ups except in exceptional >> circumstances. >> >> However, it so happens that I have the Otley parish registers from 1750- >> 1812 on a CD from the Yorkshire Parish Register Society and other >> records in a series of booklets from 1812 to as late as 1883 (mostly >> burials). >> >> Tell me which Pickards you are interested in and I will have a look as a >> New Year gift. >> >> -- >> Roy Stockdill >> Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer >> Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: >> www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html >> >> "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, >> and that is not being talked about." >> OSCAR WILDE >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1205 - Release Date: >> 31/12/2007 15:32 >> >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. > It has removed 64159 spam emails to date. > Paying users do not have this message in their emails. > Try SPAMfighter for free now! > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1205 - Release Date: > 31/12/2007 15:32 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 64159 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now!

I am interested in knowing if anyone can recommend someone that would be interested in looking up an obit notice in the year 1949 for the area of Huddersfield? LeeAnn Volle Central Illinois Have A Brilliant Day _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec

Hello Janet I noted that your "involvement" with Bradford family history as well as Huddersfield and Saddleworth.... and wondered whether you could help at all with my ELLIS ancestors in Cleckheaton? I should explain that I am part of group of living relatives who have an ancestral ELLIS family associated with Gildersome near Leeds (my grandfather) as well as Cleckheaton - and earlier in 16c-18c times with Dinnington the far side of Rotherham. One of the above group has some truly fascinating records relating to a John ELLIS,1836-1901, cabinet maker and carpenter in Cleckheaton. Our group has already collected additional information such as old maps and plan to get hold of a recent reprint of a book about the Spen Valley. I have talked to the librarian at Cleckheaton library, and am in touch with a Ken Chaplin, who seems to be helping out there on some Saturdays - but thought that you may have more/other knowledge of local sources! There does not seem to be a specific FH group associated with Cleckheaton?!.. and reckon that Huddersfield would not cover it? So...I'm looking for a little guidance to see how I/we can extend our enquiries - and possibly be others who may help. Unfortunately none of our "group" live anywhere near Cleckheaton - I'm in Woking Surrey, whilst others are in Formby Lancs, Cardiff,Cheltenham, and Skipton (latter works full-time) Hope this is of interest! Regards and Best wishes for the New Year Richard ps I must now get round to paying all those annual subs for FHS...Rotherham:Sheffield:Morley:Leicester:Barnsley(2)..to name some of them! -----Original Message----- From: west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Janet Ogden Sent: 01 January 2008 14:19 To: west-riding@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers Hi Roy, some of Otley Parish Registers are on FreeReg. Regards Janet Janet Ogden Project Officer for Bradford FHSoc., FreeCEN 1891 Huddersfield & Saddleworth Also for FreeREG Yorkshire > From: "John Lindley" <jlindley41@sky.com> > >> Hi Elaine >> >> Do you know of the Picard's in Otley?> > > As listers know, I don't normally do look-ups except in exceptional > circumstances. > > However, it so happens that I have the Otley parish registers from 1750- > 1812 on a CD from the Yorkshire Parish Register Society and other > records in a series of booklets from 1812 to as late as 1883 (mostly > burials). > > Tell me which Pickards you are interested in and I will have a look as a > New Year gift. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1205 - Release Date: > 31/12/2007 15:32 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 64159 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Gordon, Thanks for your generous offer, but it looks like my line of Birketts were in Over Wyresdale, Lancashire from at least 1719 until 1831 when my ggg grandmother, Jane Birkett and her husband, Thomas Huntington (a non-attender) moved to Birkenshaw, Yorkshire (probably to work in the mills). Jane (Birkett) Huntington died in Birkenshaw in July1837 and I was hoping her death might be mentioned in one of the Quaker Minute books for that area. I probably need to initiate a Quaker discussion like this one on the Lancs list. I'll keep your note regarding the "Leeds Friends Minute Book, 1692 to 1712" - just in case I ever find early ties to Yorkshire Quakers. It would be interesting to see if there is anything in the book Roy Stockdill mentioned, "Sufferings of Early Quakers in Yorkshire 1652-1690", that might indiate some of the Quakers from Yorkshire would have migrated to other areas in the late 1600's (ie: Over Wyresdale, Lancashire). It is definitely high on my list of books to look for when I get to the Salt Lake Family History Library in May. Thanks again for the information and look-up. Best wishes for a very Happy New Year! Sherry Shallenberger

Thanks for the HIRST data MAGGIE !! That's all new stuff to me! I'd love to know more. Do you have anything on the DENTON family of Mirfield ??? I have a number of the Hirst family from Mirfield in my tree. Joshua HIRST and Sarah DAWSON m 10 Mar 1691 7th g-grandparents Parents to Mary Hirst c 27 Sep 1697 6th g- grandmother married Jonathan DENTON B~1693 Kirkheaton or Mirfield Eliza HIRST c 26 Jun 1694 married William WRATHMEL c 5 Nov 1692 m ~1713 6th g-grandparents Most of old Mirfield families tie into mine. Sorting them out is the problem. The IGI does not list deaths for most part so my "tree" may contain some dead babies who "had kids" ! :-((( Nelson Denton *** Seeking in Mirfield. . . 1500-1900 DENTON, BOOTH, ARMITAGE, WATSON, SHEARD, NORTH, WRATHMEL(sp), FRANCE, MIDGLEY, ROBINSON, WILLBY, HIRST, WOOD JACKSON

----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers Hi Roy, some of Otley Parish Registers are on FreeReg. Regards Janet Janet Ogden Project Officer for Bradford FHSoc., FreeCEN 1891 Huddersfield & Saddleworth Also for FreeREG Yorkshire > From: "John Lindley" <jlindley41@sky.com> > >> Hi Elaine >> >> Do you know of the Picard's in Otley?> > > As listers know, I don't normally do look-ups except in exceptional > circumstances. > > However, it so happens that I have the Otley parish registers from 1750- > 1812 on a CD from the Yorkshire Parish Register Society and other > records in a series of booklets from 1812 to as late as 1883 (mostly > burials). > > Tell me which Pickards you are interested in and I will have a look as a > New Year gift. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1205 - Release Date: > 31/12/2007 15:32 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 64159 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now!

From: "John Lindley" <jlindley41@sky.com> > Hi Elaine > > Do you know of the Picard's in Otley?> As listers know, I don't normally do look-ups except in exceptional circumstances. However, it so happens that I have the Otley parish registers from 1750- 1812 on a CD from the Yorkshire Parish Register Society and other records in a series of booklets from 1812 to as late as 1883 (mostly burials). Tell me which Pickards you are interested in and I will have a look as a New Year gift. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Should have said or could be found in the first few years after change over both dates given in local public documents countries not counties regards Terry > From: terrysundbya0felan3@hotmail.com > To: west-riding@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 12:26:08 +0100 > Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers > > > Hi > well in the old calander the year ended in March (why October and December are so named 8 th and 10th) SO to drive us all mad many private persons used the old calender in the private correspondence or found in the first few years Which always put Jan Feb. and March in the year before. In the transfer to the new Calender and moving the start of the year to January, we had a year only nine months long. therefore to ungo the problems associated with the change over many modern people try to hold to the modern calender. Which now is universal for dating events. Counties often where in both different months and at times different years. > regards > Terry > Norway. > > >> From: john@earnshaw3073.freeserve.co.uk >> To: west-riding@rootsweb.com >> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 10:21:58 +0000 >> Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers >> >> Dear Listers, >> As a young Land Agent the firm I worked for managed two Agricultural Estates >> owned by the same family, one in Derbyshire the other in the West Riding. >> The Agricultural Tenancy Agreements always commenced on 25th March (Lady >> Day) in Derbyshire but in the West Riding it was 6th April (Old Lady Day). >> This was in the period 1955 to 1961 and was obviously a relic of the >> Calendar changes Roy explained. >> John Earnshaw >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Roy Stockdill >> Sent: 31 December 2007 13:13 >> To: west-riding@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers >> >> Dear Listers >> >> Further to my explanation of the calendar changes of 1752, I have been >> perusing a substantial number of parish registers on an Ancestry CD to >> see whether I could find any interesting or curious entries as a result. >> >> This is not from Yorkshire but Nottinghamshire. However, it appears on >> the same CD as the Yorkshire West Riding records..... >> >> Benjamin COW, blacksmith, 38, bachelor, and Hannah PARKER, both of >> the parish of St Nicholas, Nottingham, took out a licence to marry on 2nd >> September 1752 (Nottinghamshire marriage licence abstracts). >> >> They married at St Nicholas, Nottingham, on Sep 14 1752, according to >> the registers. This date also appears in the IGI (private submission). >> >> In fact, they married the very next day after getting the licence, since in >> 1752 Sept 2 was followed immediately by Sep 14 ! >> >> I have often wondered if anyone has any occurrences from the non- >> existent period Sep 3-Sep 13 1752 in their records? Did any incumbents >> ignore the fact that 11 days were lost and insert the dates that never >> officially existed? Since we know that there were some vicars who stuck >> to the Old Style year, it seems possible there were a few who, whether by >> accident, forgetfulness or design, inserted the wrong dates in September! >> >> -- >> Roy Stockdill >> Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer >> Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: >> www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html >> >> "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, >> and that is not being talked about." >> OSCAR WILDE >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

Hi well in the old calander the year ended in March (why October and December are so named 8 th and 10th) SO to drive us all mad many private persons used the old calender in the private correspondence or found in the first few years Which always put Jan Feb. and March in the year before. In the transfer to the new Calender and moving the start of the year to January, we had a year only nine months long. therefore to ungo the problems associated with the change over many modern people try to hold to the modern calender. Which now is universal for dating events. Counties often where in both different months and at times different years. regards Terry Norway. > From: john@earnshaw3073.freeserve.co.uk > To: west-riding@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 10:21:58 +0000 > Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers > > Dear Listers, > As a young Land Agent the firm I worked for managed two Agricultural Estates > owned by the same family, one in Derbyshire the other in the West Riding. > The Agricultural Tenancy Agreements always commenced on 25th March (Lady > Day) in Derbyshire but in the West Riding it was 6th April (Old Lady Day). > This was in the period 1955 to 1961 and was obviously a relic of the > Calendar changes Roy explained. > John Earnshaw > > -----Original Message----- > From: west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Roy Stockdill > Sent: 31 December 2007 13:13 > To: west-riding@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers > > Dear Listers > > Further to my explanation of the calendar changes of 1752, I have been > perusing a substantial number of parish registers on an Ancestry CD to > see whether I could find any interesting or curious entries as a result. > > This is not from Yorkshire but Nottinghamshire. However, it appears on > the same CD as the Yorkshire West Riding records..... > > Benjamin COW, blacksmith, 38, bachelor, and Hannah PARKER, both of > the parish of St Nicholas, Nottingham, took out a licence to marry on 2nd > September 1752 (Nottinghamshire marriage licence abstracts). > > They married at St Nicholas, Nottingham, on Sep 14 1752, according to > the registers. This date also appears in the IGI (private submission). > > In fact, they married the very next day after getting the licence, since in > 1752 Sept 2 was followed immediately by Sep 14 ! > > I have often wondered if anyone has any occurrences from the non- > existent period Sep 3-Sep 13 1752 in their records? Did any incumbents > ignore the fact that 11 days were lost and insert the dates that never > officially existed? Since we know that there were some vicars who stuck > to the Old Style year, it seems possible there were a few who, whether by > accident, forgetfulness or design, inserted the wrong dates in September! > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

Hi Martin, >>Hi Maggie, >>Is there any other information in the St. Mary's register about Joshua's father George Hirst? This has been a brick wall for me. Would the Bothwick have wills or probate court records for this time period? Are they available on-line or should I write to them? >>Thanks for your help. >>Martin Gibbons Here are all the entries for George Hirst between 1608 and 1681. The different clerks had slightly different ways of writing the date in the register: anything in brackets is mine, hoping to clarify things. All transcriptions which disturb the natural order and headings of pages are a bit artificial. Spellings are original as far as I know. August 1608: George Hirst had a daughter xpned (christened) named Mercye vjth daye August 1608: George Hirst saide daughter called Mercye was buryed the viijth daye July Anno Dom' 1631: bur. George Hirst wife named Agnes was buried the xixth day (this was during a visitation of the plague: no christenings or marriages, only burials listed) 1634-35 January 10 George Hirst buried (Jan 1635 in new style) 1639-40 March 15 George sonne of Edward Hyrst bapt. (March 1640) 1643 May George Hirst buried the 20th day 1646 December George the sonne of Edward Hirst was bapt. the 15th day 1657 August Edeth doughter of George Hirst babtized 6 day 1659-60 March 1659 Gorge ye sun of Edward Hirst younger babtized ye 12th day of March (March 1659) 1660-61 March 1660 George the sonne of Edwarde Hirst buried the 15 daie 1661 August George the sonne of George Hirste baptized the 16 daie June 1664 Thomas sonne of George Hirst baptized the 21 daie April 1669 Memorand' that Beniamin sonne of George Hirst was baptized the 7th day (placed at the end of the month) May 1671 George Hirst miner and Sara Siddall maried the 25th day July 1671 Ann the daughter of George Hirst miner baptized the 16th day 1672-73 February 1672 Susanna the dagter of George Hirst baptized the 1 day (February 1673) 1672-73 February 1672 Susanna the Daughter of George Hirst buried the 4 day October 1674 John the sonne of George Hirst miner baptized the 18 day 1677-78 January George Hirst buried the 12 (January 1678) 1681-82 January Joshua Son of George Hirst baptized 1st day. (January 1682) I see why you have a brick wall. There are very few marriages here. All I can suggest is looking for a marriage outside the Mirfield parish, unless you have reason to think he might have been the miner. But then you have to decide who died in January 1678 .... If you'd like me to carry on beyond 1682 I will. I have no experience at all with wills, and suggest we throw this one back to the list. good luck! maggie

Hi Maggie, Is there any other information in the St. Mary's register about Joshua's father George Hirst? This has been a brick wall for me. Would the Bothwick have wills or probate court records for this time period? Are they available on-line or should I write to them? Thanks for your help. Martin Gibbons In a message dated 1/1/2008 5:01:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, MaggieMole@aol.com writes: Hi List, >>Joshua Hirst January 1 1681/82 (St. Mary the Virgin Church) The actual wording in the St Mary's register is: January Joshua the son of George Hirst baptized 1st day On the previous page is April 1681, and all the other months are without their own year, until April following this January which is labelled April 1682. You're correct, Roy, it must have been the "professional researcher" who applied his own wording. I will happily do some lookups in this online Mirfield register for anyone who wants to check the actual words. If you enjoy these date problems, try some genealogy using a lunar calendar! I was involved in a Jewish family question some time ago where the wedding certificate was written in Aramaic, and had to be sent to the British Museum for translation. The BM did not supply a full translation, giving their own words in a description instead, and gave the date of the marriage in our calendar system. (The Jewish calendar has its own months and uses letters for the numbers in their year - today's date is 23 Tevet 5768). What the expert had failed to point out to the family was that the New Year is sometime in September, quite far enough away from Jan 1st to give a disturbing discrepancy when compared with a birth date of the firstborn recorded in the civil system. Whatever calendar you live by, have a good year. Maggie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

It of course should read "PICKARD". Silly me. One "Mimosa" too many for breakfast. LOL. Elaine in Ottawa. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine Pickard" <trayford@rogers.com> To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> Sent: January 01, 2008 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers > Hi John, > > The Packard's are my husbands line and they seem to have moved from > Bradford > to Leeds in the mid 1800's. > William Pickard was born circa 1811. He married Sarah Bradley in Shipley > in > 1834. > > As you are probably aware the Packard's are thick on the ground in that > part > of Yorkshire. Where William was born is our brickwall. > He was a Woolcomber. He only seemed to have two children Hannah and John. > John was born 1843 in Dunkirk St, Bradford. He later moved on to Leeds and > we have followed them to present day. > > The 1851 census information which we believe is the family. > 1851 census. HO 107/2319 > > Spring Yard Leeds. > > William Pickard Head. Widr aged 40 Wool comber born Leeds > > Hannah daugh 17? Shoe Binder born Leeds.? > > John son aged 6 scholar born Bradford.? > > > My husband says yes he is aware of the Otley Pickard's but can't find a > link..... But he does think they come from that area? > > Thanks for asking. > Elaine in Ottawa. > Sheffield Indexers Site Admin. > http://sheff-indexers.thewholeshebang.org > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Lindley" <jlindley41@sky.com> > To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Sent: January 01, 2008 3:49 AM > Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers > > >> Hi Elaine >> >> Do you know of the Picard's in Otley? >> >> Regards John >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Elaine Pickard" <trayford@rogers.com> >> To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 3:50 AM >> Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers >> >> >>> Hi Kingsley, >>> >>> The Gregorian Calendar came into effect in 1752 in England and the New >>> Year >>> Changed from March 24th (ish). The change each year took place on Lady >>> Day. >>> If you check through any early Parish Records you will Note the change >>> is >>> noted on Lady Day. >>> >>> Regards. >>> Elaine in Ottawa. >>> Sheffield Indexers Site Admin. >>> http://sheff-indexers.thewholeshebang.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kingsley Hirst" <dkh@xtra.co.nz> >>> To: <WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: December 30, 2007 9:50 PM >>> Subject: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers >>> >>> >>>>I haven't located a similar post via a search. >>>> >>>> I have noticed that the IGI information can be exactly 1 year different >>>> to >>>> the (say) the English Parish Records: Yorkshire (West Riding) [this is >>>> a >>>> CD purchased through Ancestry.com). >>>> >>>> For example: >>>> Mary Cardwell, IGI Batch: P009801 has a Christening Date of 3 Feb 1740 >>>> (father John Cardwell). >>>> >>>> Whereas the English Parish Records (Thornhill, West Yorkshire) has the >>>> following entry: >>>> 03 Feb 1739 Mary the dau: of John Cardwell Junr >>>> >>>> I believe the above to be the same person. >>>> >>>> Neverthless, I am sure I have seen similar examples and I wondered >>>> (besides the fact that I could have the wrong person) whether anyone >>>> else >>>> had noticed this or had an explantion. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Kingsley Hirst (in NZ) >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: >>>> 12/30/2007 11:27 AM >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1204 - Release Date: >> 12/31/2007 12:20 PM >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date: 1/1/2008 > 12:09 PM > >

Dear Listers, As a young Land Agent the firm I worked for managed two Agricultural Estates owned by the same family, one in Derbyshire the other in the West Riding. The Agricultural Tenancy Agreements always commenced on 25th March (Lady Day) in Derbyshire but in the West Riding it was 6th April (Old Lady Day). This was in the period 1955 to 1961 and was obviously a relic of the Calendar changes Roy explained. John Earnshaw -----Original Message----- From: west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Roy Stockdill Sent: 31 December 2007 13:13 To: west-riding@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers Dear Listers Further to my explanation of the calendar changes of 1752, I have been perusing a substantial number of parish registers on an Ancestry CD to see whether I could find any interesting or curious entries as a result. This is not from Yorkshire but Nottinghamshire. However, it appears on the same CD as the Yorkshire West Riding records..... Benjamin COW, blacksmith, 38, bachelor, and Hannah PARKER, both of the parish of St Nicholas, Nottingham, took out a licence to marry on 2nd September 1752 (Nottinghamshire marriage licence abstracts). They married at St Nicholas, Nottingham, on Sep 14 1752, according to the registers. This date also appears in the IGI (private submission). In fact, they married the very next day after getting the licence, since in 1752 Sept 2 was followed immediately by Sep 14 ! I have often wondered if anyone has any occurrences from the non- existent period Sep 3-Sep 13 1752 in their records? Did any incumbents ignore the fact that 11 days were lost and insert the dates that never officially existed? Since we know that there were some vicars who stuck to the Old Style year, it seems possible there were a few who, whether by accident, forgetfulness or design, inserted the wrong dates in September! -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi John, The Packard's are my husbands line and they seem to have moved from Bradford to Leeds in the mid 1800's. William Pickard was born circa 1811. He married Sarah Bradley in Shipley in 1834. As you are probably aware the Packard's are thick on the ground in that part of Yorkshire. Where William was born is our brickwall. He was a Woolcomber. He only seemed to have two children Hannah and John. John was born 1843 in Dunkirk St, Bradford. He later moved on to Leeds and we have followed them to present day. The 1851 census information which we believe is the family. 1851 census. HO 107/2319 Spring Yard Leeds. William Pickard Head. Widr aged 40 Wool comber born Leeds Hannah daugh 17? Shoe Binder born Leeds.? John son aged 6 scholar born Bradford.? My husband says yes he is aware of the Otley Pickard's but can't find a link..... But he does think they come from that area? Thanks for asking. Elaine in Ottawa. Sheffield Indexers Site Admin. http://sheff-indexers.thewholeshebang.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lindley" <jlindley41@sky.com> To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> Sent: January 01, 2008 3:49 AM Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers > Hi Elaine > > Do you know of the Picard's in Otley? > > Regards John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elaine Pickard" <trayford@rogers.com> > To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 3:50 AM > Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers > > >> Hi Kingsley, >> >> The Gregorian Calendar came into effect in 1752 in England and the New >> Year >> Changed from March 24th (ish). The change each year took place on Lady >> Day. >> If you check through any early Parish Records you will Note the change is >> noted on Lady Day. >> >> Regards. >> Elaine in Ottawa. >> Sheffield Indexers Site Admin. >> http://sheff-indexers.thewholeshebang.org >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kingsley Hirst" <dkh@xtra.co.nz> >> To: <WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: December 30, 2007 9:50 PM >> Subject: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers >> >> >>>I haven't located a similar post via a search. >>> >>> I have noticed that the IGI information can be exactly 1 year different >>> to >>> the (say) the English Parish Records: Yorkshire (West Riding) [this is a >>> CD purchased through Ancestry.com). >>> >>> For example: >>> Mary Cardwell, IGI Batch: P009801 has a Christening Date of 3 Feb 1740 >>> (father John Cardwell). >>> >>> Whereas the English Parish Records (Thornhill, West Yorkshire) has the >>> following entry: >>> 03 Feb 1739 Mary the dau: of John Cardwell Junr >>> >>> I believe the above to be the same person. >>> >>> Neverthless, I am sure I have seen similar examples and I wondered >>> (besides the fact that I could have the wrong person) whether anyone >>> else >>> had noticed this or had an explantion. >>> >>> Regards >>> Kingsley Hirst (in NZ) >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: >>> 12/30/2007 11:27 AM >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1204 - Release Date: > 12/31/2007 12:20 PM > >

Roy, I must say this is very interesting and thank you for explaining it, it has been very helpful. Happy New Year to everyone and your families. Sam Victoria Aust -----Original Message----- From: west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:west-riding-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Roy Stockdill Sent: Tuesday, 1 January 2008 12:13 AM To: west-riding@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers Dear Listers Further to my explanation of the calendar changes of 1752, I have been perusing a substantial number of parish registers on an Ancestry CD to see whether I could find any interesting or curious entries as a result. This is not from Yorkshire but Nottinghamshire. However, it appears on the same CD as the Yorkshire West Riding records..... Benjamin COW, blacksmith, 38, bachelor, and Hannah PARKER, both of the parish of St Nicholas, Nottingham, took out a licence to marry on 2nd September 1752 (Nottinghamshire marriage licence abstracts). They married at St Nicholas, Nottingham, on Sep 14 1752, according to the registers. This date also appears in the IGI (private submission). In fact, they married the very next day after getting the licence, since in 1752 Sept 2 was followed immediately by Sep 14 ! I have often wondered if anyone has any occurrences from the non- existent period Sep 3-Sep 13 1752 in their records? Did any incumbents ignore the fact that 11 days were lost and insert the dates that never officially existed? Since we know that there were some vicars who stuck to the Old Style year, it seems possible there were a few who, whether by accident, forgetfulness or design, inserted the wrong dates in September! -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 30/12/2007 11:27 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1205 - Release Date: 31/12/2007 3:32 PM

Hi Elaine Do you know of the Picard's in Otley? Regards John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine Pickard" <trayford@rogers.com> To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 3:50 AM Subject: Re: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers > Hi Kingsley, > > The Gregorian Calendar came into effect in 1752 in England and the New > Year > Changed from March 24th (ish). The change each year took place on Lady > Day. > If you check through any early Parish Records you will Note the change is > noted on Lady Day. > > Regards. > Elaine in Ottawa. > Sheffield Indexers Site Admin. > http://sheff-indexers.thewholeshebang.org > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kingsley Hirst" <dkh@xtra.co.nz> > To: <WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com> > Sent: December 30, 2007 9:50 PM > Subject: [WRY] Which is correct? IGI or English Parish Registers > > >>I haven't located a similar post via a search. >> >> I have noticed that the IGI information can be exactly 1 year different >> to >> the (say) the English Parish Records: Yorkshire (West Riding) [this is a >> CD purchased through Ancestry.com). >> >> For example: >> Mary Cardwell, IGI Batch: P009801 has a Christening Date of 3 Feb 1740 >> (father John Cardwell). >> >> Whereas the English Parish Records (Thornhill, West Yorkshire) has the >> following entry: >> 03 Feb 1739 Mary the dau: of John Cardwell Junr >> >> I believe the above to be the same person. >> >> Neverthless, I am sure I have seen similar examples and I wondered >> (besides the fact that I could have the wrong person) whether anyone else >> had noticed this or had an explantion. >> >> Regards >> Kingsley Hirst (in NZ) >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: >> 12/30/2007 11:27 AM >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi List, >>Joshua Hirst January 1 1681/82 (St. Mary the Virgin Church) The actual wording in the St Mary's register is: January Joshua the son of George Hirst baptized 1st day On the previous page is April 1681, and all the other months are without their own year, until April following this January which is labelled April 1682. You're correct, Roy, it must have been the "professional researcher" who applied his own wording. I will happily do some lookups in this online Mirfield register for anyone who wants to check the actual words. If you enjoy these date problems, try some genealogy using a lunar calendar! I was involved in a Jewish family question some time ago where the wedding certificate was written in Aramaic, and had to be sent to the British Museum for translation. The BM did not supply a full translation, giving their own words in a description instead, and gave the date of the marriage in our calendar system. (The Jewish calendar has its own months and uses letters for the numbers in their year - today's date is 23 Tevet 5768). What the expert had failed to point out to the family was that the New Year is sometime in September, quite far enough away from Jan 1st to give a disturbing discrepancy when compared with a birth date of the firstborn recorded in the civil system. Whatever calendar you live by, have a good year. Maggie

From: MaggieMole@aol.com > The Mirfield registers are online in Ancestry and are the filmed > version of William Brigg's transcriptions, made about 1920. In his > preface Mr Brigg makes no reference to the way he has treated dating, > but in all other respects it really does seem to be a most faithful > copy. I've found it invaluable. > > Maggie> I am sure it is a very excellent transcription. It is clear that he must have applied the New Style dating to all events before 1752. This is how it should be. However, William Briggs probably assumed that everyone knew what he meant! He was by no means alone in this. I can well remember looking at some indexed parish register entries at the North Yorkshire RO at Northallerton and having to ask an archivist member of staff whether they were Old Style or New Style. She told me all their indexes were converted to New Style - but the point was, I shouldn't have had to ask! It should have been stated quite clearly. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Put more trust in the original record..... that is the Parish Register, not a transcription of what was in the Parish Register (IGI) Borrow the film of the original entry in the IGI and check that. When things are transcribed, many errors are made. Sometimes the Parish Register is headed with years, say, 1800, and entries are listed below in various months without further reference to the year. As pages are turned, the year may or may not be repeated, and occasional pages are totally missing, so anyone transcribing it has a difficult time of understanding just what the date might be. Also, entries are often inserted, in roughly appropriate dates, written down the side of pages, or crammed in between lines. Some families have been written all on one page, perhaps when they have just moved towns, and the new parish has listed them all, with dates of all previous Baptisms. Years can be all over the place. And, not to mention the difficulties of the handwriting! Of course you don't see this when you look up the IGI. Even in a Parish register, I have seen an entry for a Baptism, only to find an entry in later pages in the form of an index, where the date differs. Some information was added by the Registrar well after the event, so dates/names can be wrong. You only need to compare births/baptisms of children in the Parish entries with records made in a family Bible, to find completely different dates in some cases. Some Parish Registers were even re-written, in beautiful handwriting, years later.....(probably to leave a good record behind for the Bishop) so beware. Solution for your family history: record the two dates, and add an explanation in the notes. Margaret On 31/12/07 6:31 PM, "Geoff Watson" <geoffwatsone@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Kingsley wrote > > I have noticed that the IGI information can be exactly 1 year different to the > (say) the English Parish Records: Yorkshire (West Riding) [this is a CD > purchased through Ancestry.com).For example:Mary Cardwell, IGI Batch: P009801 > has a Christening Date of 3 Feb 1740 (father John Cardwell).Whereas the > English Parish Records (Thornhill, West Yorkshire) has the following entry:03 > Feb 1739 Mary the dau: of John Cardwell JunrI believe the above to be the same > person.Neverthless, I am sure I have seen similar examples and I wondered > (besides the fact that I could have the wrong person) whether anyone else had > noticed this or had an explantion.Elaine replied > The Gregorian Calendar came into effect in 1752 in England and the New Year > Changed from March 24th (ish). The change each year took place on Lady Day. > If you check through any early Parish Records you will Note the change is > noted on Lady Day. > > My query > > Did this one year discrepancy continue towards the end of the century - I have > several such instances in the 1780'8 and 1790's, all in one parish (Haworth) > between January and March....... > > Thanks > > Geoff in Sevilla > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message