Ann WARD was born at Bentham, West Riding in 1864, the daughter of Solomon and Elizabeth WARD. In 1888 Ann married James RAILTON at Lunesdale, Lancashire. Ann and James then moved to Liverpool where they brought up their family. Ann must have died as James remarried in 1901 to Caroline ASHTON. I have not been able to find the death of Ann RAILTON nee WARD for certain. The only possible record I see in the GRO index is the death of an Ann RAILTON registered in the Skipton District in 1900. Ann's father, Solomon, died in 1898. I have wondered if Ann went to stay with her mother, Elizabeth WARD, or another family member who was by then living in the Skipton area but I can't find them on the 1901 census. Has anyone any ideas on this? David

Many thanks Maggie for the information.  Like you, I did not draw out my pennies. I was told that there was a site on the internet where one could check for names  and for monnies that   was unclaimed from various places. Jean Canada ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 1:41:40 PM Subject: Re: [WRY] Test Hi Jean, This what Wikipedia has to say (a bit abbreviated). It looks as if your only hope is to get Aussie Dollars back for your pennies! There was one in Hebden Bridge too, which I put my own pennies (old ones) into, but I don't remember getting them out. cheers Maggie The Bank of England organised a takeover by a consortium of banks (National Provincial Bank, Westminster Bank, Williams Deacon's Bank, Lloyds Bank, Barclays Bank, Glyn Mills) and the Yorkshire Penny Bank adopted limited liability. After this the bank was able to offer overdrafts for the first time. In its centenary year of 1959 the bank's name changed to the more familiar Yorkshire Bank Limited. During the 1970s the bank became one of the first to offer fee-free banking whilst in credit, a move that took bigger rivals a decade to follow. In 1982 it adopted public limited company status. During the Miners' Strike of 1984-85 the bank offered miners who were mortgage holders a deferment, allowing them to postpone payments for the duration of the dispute. The strike took place in the bank's heartland and many miners were customers, having been encouraged by the National Coal Board to have their pay mandated to a bank account. In 1990 the NAB Group acquired the bank from the consortium of owning banks which, after mergers and acquisitions, were the National Westminster Bank, holders of (40%), Barclays Bank (32%), Lloyds Bank (20%), and Royal Bank of Scotland (8%). The price paid was £1 billion and the bank joined National Australia Bank's other European businesses, the Clydesdale Bank (Scotland) and the Northern Bank (Northern Ireland). In 2005 the National Australia Bank announced its intention to merge the Yorkshire Bank with the Clydesdale under one operating licence, in which the former would be a trading name of the latter. Both operate under separate identities although the Clydesdale brand is the one that has been used in further expansion into the south of England (The Northern Bank was sold to Danske Bank of Denmark along with its operations in the Republic of Ireland, the National Irish Bank). At the same time 40 branches were closed, a reduction of a fifth of the Yorkshire Bank network. [2] -----Original Message----- From: Jean Johnson <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:04 Subject: Re: [WRY] Test Hi Maggie , How about , what happend to the Yorkshire Penny Bank. In the 1930,s I used to put pennies in an acount when I was was 6 or 7 years old. I stopped doing after a while. The Bank was located at Meanwood  Stonegate Road  opsite Kirby,s fish and chip shop. I often wonder what happened to those pennies.. Jean Canada. ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 3:14:09 AM Subject: Re: [WRY] Test The WRY list seems to have no difficult topics to talk about, Mary Lou! I could find a few ... Maggie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 5:46 Subject: [WRY] Test haven't gotten any mail all evening?? Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message       __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca

Hi Jean, This what Wikipedia has to say (a bit abbreviated). It looks as if your only hope is to get Aussie Dollars back for your pennies! There was one in Hebden Bridge too, which I put my own pennies (old ones) into, but I don't remember getting them out. cheers Maggie The Bank of England organised a takeover by a consortium of banks (National Provincial Bank, Westminster Bank, Williams Deacon's Bank, Lloyds Bank, Barclays Bank, Glyn Mills) and the Yorkshire Penny Bank adopted limited liability. After this the bank was able to offer overdrafts for the first time. In its centenary year of 1959 the bank's name changed to the more familiar Yorkshire Bank Limited. During the 1970s the bank became one of the first to offer fee-free banking whilst in credit, a move that took bigger rivals a decade to follow. In 1982 it adopted public limited company status. During the Miners' Strike of 1984-85 the bank offered miners who were mortgage holders a deferment, allowing them to postpone payments for the duration of the dispute. The strike took place in the bank's heartland and many miners were customers, having been encouraged by the National Coal Board to have their pay mandated to a bank account. In 1990 the NAB Group acquired the bank from the consortium of owning banks which, after mergers and acquisitions, were the National Westminster Bank, holders of (40%), Barclays Bank (32%), Lloyds Bank (20%), and Royal Bank of Scotland (8%). The price paid was £1 billion and the bank joined National Australia Bank's other European businesses, the Clydesdale Bank (Scotland) and the Northern Bank (Northern Ireland). In 2005 the National Australia Bank announced its intention to merge the Yorkshire Bank with the Clydesdale under one operating licence, in which the former would be a trading name of the latter. Both operate under separate identities although the Clydesdale brand is the one that has been used in further expansion into the south of England (The Northern Bank was sold to Danske Bank of Denmark along with its operations in the Republic of Ireland, the National Irish Bank). At the same time 40 branches were closed, a reduction of a fifth of the Yorkshire Bank network. [2] -----Original Message----- From: Jean Johnson <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:04 Subject: Re: [WRY] Test Hi Maggie , How about , what happend to the Yorkshire Penny Bank. In the 1930,s I used to put pennies in an acount when I was was 6 or 7 years old. I stopped doing after a while. The Bank was located at Meanwood Stonegate Road opsite Kirby,s fish and chip shop. I often wonder what happened to those pennies.. Jean Canada. ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 3:14:09 AM Subject: Re: [WRY] Test The WRY list seems to have no difficult topics to talk about, Mary Lou! I could find a few ... Maggie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 5:46 Subject: [WRY] Test haven't gotten any mail all evening?? Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Received Test Ok John ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 5:46 AM Subject: [WRY] Test > haven't gotten any mail all evening?? > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Maggie , How about , what happend to the Yorkshire Penny Bank. In the 1930,s I used to put pennies in an acount when I was was 6 or 7 years old. I stopped doing after a while. The Bank was located at Meanwood  Stonegate Road  opsite Kirby,s fish and chip shop. I often wonder what happened to those pennies.. Jean  Canada.  ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 3:14:09 AM Subject: Re: [WRY] Test The WRY list seems to have no difficult topics to talk about, Mary Lou! I could find a few ... Maggie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 5:46 Subject: [WRY] Test haven't gotten any mail all evening?? Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com

The WRY list seems to have no difficult topics to talk about, Mary Lou! I could find a few ... Maggie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 5:46 Subject: [WRY] Test haven't gotten any mail all evening?? Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

haven't gotten any mail all evening??

Hi Diana Alverthorpe and Thornes are two villages situated 1 mile to the west of Wakefield. Both places were once grouped together as a township for administrative purposes, hence 'Alverthorpe cum Thornes'. Hope this helps Best wishes Angela Petyt Chairman - Wakefield & District Family History Society http://homepage.virgin.net/wakefield.fhs

Following on from Kath Wright's comments, I'd also like to say thank you to the organisers of last Saturday's Family and Local History Fair at Thornes Park in Wakefield. The assistance provided was marvellous, the catering excellent, good parking etc. All of us on the Wakefield FHS stall really enjoyed ourselves. Best wishes Angela Petyt Chairman - Wakefield & District FHS http://homepage.virgin.net/wakefield.fhs

Yes Roy they were all related, they also had a few Major's and a Squire or two, these belong to a friend of mine. A bit sideways but my gggreat grandparents called their first son Oliver Cromwell GREENWOOD the second was Nelson, then Napoleon and the daughter was Obejoyful, they had waited 15 years for her. The male names were used again with cousins who were Browns, in fact an engineering works in Hebden Bridge is still known as Napoleon works after the one who founded it. I do find it part of the fun and interest of doing the research.

In my database of Yorkshire Mitchells, I have Oliver Cromwell MITCHELL. He was born in the nineteenth century and not the seventeenth. I doubt that this was an effort to continue a surname within the family. I think that perhaps some of our ancestors did display a sense of humour in their choice of given names and not always a desire to continue a surname which might otherwise disappear. Or perhaps this should tell me that the family had a Puritanical streak? Interesting to speculate. Sandra Hargreaves in Melbourne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury > On 15 Nov 2009 at 4:40, [email protected] wrote: > >> Hi Edward >> >> A fairly random search of a couple of West iding batch numbers for the >> late eighteenth century revealed 10 Squires in C007495 (Halifax) and >> 16 Squires >> in P018302 (Wakefield). I have a number of Squires among my BEDFORDs, >> >> BERESFORDs and WEBSTERs in Midgley and Skircoat. > > > Not Yorkshire, I know, but I cannot resist mentioning the birth of SQUIRE > SQUIRE, > registered in the June quarter of 1883 at St Austell, Cornwall (5c 107) > and found at > FreeBMD. > > Sadly, I can't find him in a census but maybe he was too embarrassed to > use the > name and chose another one! Alternatively, there is a death entered only > as "Male > Squire" also at St Austell in the same quarter and this may well have been > him. > > It's also possible there has been an indexing error at the GRO, since > looking at the > image of the birth entry shows not only "Squire Squire" listed but "Male > Squire" at the > end with the same reference. Yes, probably an indexing error but I thought > it still worth > mentioning as an example of the extraordinary pecularities you can find > with > FreeBMD. > > Yesterday I mentioned a chap called MAJOR BOOTH, who was a well-known > Yorkshire and England cricketer and who was killed in WWII. A search for > Major as a > forename produces 7,239 entries - too many to display, FreeBMD tells me. > However, > would you believe there are nine entries for MAJOR MAJOR? > > It's a hobby of mine, scouring FreeBMD for weird and wonderful names - > yes, I know I > should get out more! > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

With regard to Titles for first names, my ex son-in-law was given the Christian names of Major John, but when he joined the Army, he was told to change his names round to John Major, as they could not have a soldier being addressed as Private Major. Roy Stockdill Wrote: Yesterday I mentioned a chap called MAJOR BOOTH, who was a well-known Yorkshire and England cricketer and who was killed in WWII. A search for Major as a forename produces 7,239 entries - too many to display, FreeBMD tells me. However, would you believe there are nine entries for MAJOR MAJOR? It's a hobby of mine, scouring FreeBMD for weird and wonderful names - yes, I know I should get out more! -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html

I have read this thread with interest, one of the first things which drew me in to an interest in family history was a small family tree recorded by my mother in my Baby book, a record she had made at the time of my birth. It included my paternal Great grandfather one Squire King LOWND(E)S and as a child I was sure that there would be a interesting story to go along with his name, involving a grand house, money etc, especially as the name had been passed on through the family and my father, brother and subsequently nephew all carried the middle name of SQUIRE. A couple of decades later when I had the time and opportunity to begin my research in earnest I discovered initially to my disappointment that Squire King Lownds was most definately not a "gentleman" but a bare knuckle fighter and his history all the more fascinating. His name was not a fabrication however, KING proved to be his mother's maiden name and Squire was a name from his Irish grandmother and handed on through the generations. My father on a recent visit to Ireland found that Squire was a common name on shopfronts throughout Ireland. So although the name Squire attracted my attention for all the wrong "romantic" reasons, I'm actually much more delighted now that he turned out to be bit of a rogue and altogether unconventional. I suppose the moral is to never assume the easy answer but research all the facts. Regards Beverley Richards -- beverley richards [email protected]

Yes Jean, I clearly remember the frequent use of Esquire or the abbreviated form Esq. after a man's name in his address rather than addressing him as "Mr." This form of address was particularly used by Solicitors when corresponding with clients and by other business places. If my memory serves me we were taught that it referred to a person who owned property. Pam, Auckland, New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jean and terry Sent: Saturday, 14 November 2009 7:46 p.m. To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury Hi, I am wondering if the terms Lord and Squire etc originated as first names because the Lord or Squire could have fathered the children. They then arranged for the woman to marry and for her husband to give the bastard child a name. In this case you would never be able to tell the true parentage as the husband would appear on the birth certificates. Can anyone remember the use of the word esquire at the end of a name e.g. John Brown Esquire in an address, used as a title as Mr. or Master was. I've forgotten the reasons for this, I did know it once. Jean in S. Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "D E Gaunt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury >I have also come across the use of 'Lord' and 'Earl' as first names when I > was researching for a friend. She was most disappointed when we > discovered > they were only names! > Dorothy > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mel Smith > Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 10:22 AM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury > > I concur with Celia: > > I also have come across individuals named Squire and they were certainly > not > titled. > And the given name of Squire would run for several generations. > > Mel Smith > Whitby, Ontario, Canada > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Celia Renshaw > Sent: November 13, 2009 3:02 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury > > Hi Ed > Just to confuse you even more, while Squire could be a title, as you say, > like Sir, usually referring to a local bigwig, lord of the manor, > something > like that, it could also be a given name. I have Squires in several of my > family lines. Considering everything you say about this chap in the > registers, it looks 99% certain that Squire was his given name and he was > probably a labourer or craftsman by trade. > > Cheers > > Celia Renshaw > Bringing lost ancestors home: www.morganhold.com > Free strays database; affordable family research services > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Edward J. Lowitz > Sent: 12 November 2009 17:42 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury > > I've been researching the surname ELLIS from Horbury. In the parish > registers of Horbury, I came across exactly 6 references to the title > 'Squire'. Each was associated with the surname ELLIS for the period > 1598 - > 1812. The entries mentioning Squire Ellis occur from 1767 through 1786. > Being from the US, the title Squire is not one which I commonly use but > based on the Wikipedia entry, I understand that it would be associated > with > a Manor House. I'm trying to find out where this individual fits in > relative to the other ELLIS family members in the area. The Squire is > married to Hannah LNU and had at least three baptized kids (John, Hannah & > Sarah). There is no mention of his marriage or burial. His wife's burial > is mentioned in 1786. Only marriage he was involved with was for a Joseph > Ellis variously described as a "shoemaker" or "laborer". > > My questions are this: > > 1) Why are no other 'Squire's mentioned in the Parish Register? > 2) How did this guy get his title? > 3) If this guy had wealth/status, why is there so little record of him in > the Registers (ex. his death & marriage)? > 4) As a Squire, should there be further documentation of him around > somewhere (ex. deed for the Manor?, papers conferring the title?, > something > in the society pages {smile}?)? > 5) Did this guy just have a title with no wealth? > > At the least, I'd like to know his first name! > > Would sks please provide some insight? > > Thanks guys! > > Ed. > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 15 Nov 2009 at 4:40, [email protected] wrote: > Hi Edward > > A fairly random search of a couple of West iding batch numbers for the > late eighteenth century revealed 10 Squires in C007495 (Halifax) and > 16 Squires > in P018302 (Wakefield). I have a number of Squires among my BEDFORDs, > > BERESFORDs and WEBSTERs in Midgley and Skircoat. > Not Yorkshire, I know, but I cannot resist mentioning the birth of SQUIRE SQUIRE, registered in the June quarter of 1883 at St Austell, Cornwall (5c 107) and found at FreeBMD. Sadly, I can't find him in a census but maybe he was too embarrassed to use the name and chose another one! Alternatively, there is a death entered only as "Male Squire" also at St Austell in the same quarter and this may well have been him. It's also possible there has been an indexing error at the GRO, since looking at the image of the birth entry shows not only "Squire Squire" listed but "Male Squire" at the end with the same reference. Yes, probably an indexing error but I thought it still worth mentioning as an example of the extraordinary pecularities you can find with FreeBMD. Yesterday I mentioned a chap called MAJOR BOOTH, who was a well-known Yorkshire and England cricketer and who was killed in WWII. A search for Major as a forename produces 7,239 entries - too many to display, FreeBMD tells me. However, would you believe there are nine entries for MAJOR MAJOR? It's a hobby of mine, scouring FreeBMD for weird and wonderful names - yes, I know I should get out more! -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

On 15 Nov 2009 at 4:40, [email protected] wrote: > Hi Edward > > A fairly random search of a couple of West iding batch numbers for the > late eighteenth century revealed 10 Squires in C007495 (Halifax) and > 16 Squires > in P018302 (Wakefield). I have a number of Squires among my BEDFORDs, > > BERESFORDs and WEBSTERs in Midgley and Skircoat. > > A couple more 'titles' not previously mentioned occur in my distant > BRADLEY > relatives in the mid nineteenth century in Almondbury parish, where > there > are Doctor BRADLEY, and his brother Colonel BRADLEY, (living not too > far away from Cicero BRADLEY and his brother Demosthenes!) > FreeBMD has scores of births for people with the forename of DOCTOR, also an equally large number with Doctor as a surname. Thus, it is obvious, as I pointed out in a previous message, that it is again one of those surnames that came to be used as a christian name in some families in order to perpetuate it - nothing to do with titles or pretensions of grandeur at all. There are also many entries at FreeBMD for COLONEL as a forename. A particularly interesting example is the name COLONEL BARRACLOUGH, for which there are a total of 14 entries, all at Bradford or North Bierley (a Bradford registration district) between 1843 and 1937. Presumably these were all members of the same family and an example of a name being perpetuated down the generations. Actually, I want to thank whoever first introduced this thread, since it has given me a jolly good idea for a future item in my bi-monthly column "Roy's Ramblings" in Practical Family History, in which I write about genealogical oddities and unusual discoveries. I can see titles as christian names making an appearance at some stage! -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi Edward A fairly random search of a couple of West iding batch numbers for the late eighteenth century revealed 10 Squires in C007495 (Halifax) and 16 Squires in P018302 (Wakefield). I have a number of Squires among my BEDFORDs, BERESFORDs and WEBSTERs in Midgley and Skircoat. A couple more 'titles' not previously mentioned occur in my distant BRADLEY relatives in the mid nineteenth century in Almondbury parish, where there are Doctor BRADLEY, and his brother Colonel BRADLEY, (living not too far away from Cicero BRADLEY and his brother Demosthenes!) Regards, Lesley

I have also come across the use of 'Lord' and 'Earl' as first names when I was researching for a friend. She was most disappointed when we discovered they were only names! Dorothy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mel Smith Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 10:22 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury I concur with Celia: I also have come across individuals named Squire and they were certainly not titled. And the given name of Squire would run for several generations. Mel Smith Whitby, Ontario, Canada -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Celia Renshaw Sent: November 13, 2009 3:02 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury Hi Ed Just to confuse you even more, while Squire could be a title, as you say, like Sir, usually referring to a local bigwig, lord of the manor, something like that, it could also be a given name. I have Squires in several of my family lines. Considering everything you say about this chap in the registers, it looks 99% certain that Squire was his given name and he was probably a labourer or craftsman by trade. Cheers Celia Renshaw Bringing lost ancestors home: www.morganhold.com Free strays database; affordable family research services -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Edward J. Lowitz Sent: 12 November 2009 17:42 To: [email protected] Subject: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury I've been researching the surname ELLIS from Horbury. In the parish registers of Horbury, I came across exactly 6 references to the title 'Squire'. Each was associated with the surname ELLIS for the period 1598 - 1812. The entries mentioning Squire Ellis occur from 1767 through 1786. Being from the US, the title Squire is not one which I commonly use but based on the Wikipedia entry, I understand that it would be associated with a Manor House. I'm trying to find out where this individual fits in relative to the other ELLIS family members in the area. The Squire is married to Hannah LNU and had at least three baptized kids (John, Hannah & Sarah). There is no mention of his marriage or burial. His wife's burial is mentioned in 1786. Only marriage he was involved with was for a Joseph Ellis variously described as a "shoemaker" or "laborer". My questions are this: 1) Why are no other 'Squire's mentioned in the Parish Register? 2) How did this guy get his title? 3) If this guy had wealth/status, why is there so little record of him in the Registers (ex. his death & marriage)? 4) As a Squire, should there be further documentation of him around somewhere (ex. deed for the Manor?, papers conferring the title?, something in the society pages {smile}?)? 5) Did this guy just have a title with no wealth? At the least, I'd like to know his first name! Would sks please provide some insight? Thanks guys! Ed. Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I am wondering if the terms Lord and Squire etc originated as first names because the Lord or Squire could have fathered the children. They then arranged for the woman to marry and for her husband to give the bastard child a name. In this case you would never be able to tell the true parentage as the husband would appear on the birth certificates. Can anyone remember the use of the word esquire at the end of a name e.g. John Brown Esquire in an address, used as a title as Mr. or Master was. I've forgotten the reasons for this, I did know it once. Jean in S. Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "D E Gaunt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury >I have also come across the use of 'Lord' and 'Earl' as first names when I > was researching for a friend. She was most disappointed when we > discovered > they were only names! > Dorothy > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mel Smith > Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 10:22 AM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury > > I concur with Celia: > > I also have come across individuals named Squire and they were certainly > not > titled. > And the given name of Squire would run for several generations. > > Mel Smith > Whitby, Ontario, Canada > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Celia Renshaw > Sent: November 13, 2009 3:02 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury > > Hi Ed > Just to confuse you even more, while Squire could be a title, as you say, > like Sir, usually referring to a local bigwig, lord of the manor, > something > like that, it could also be a given name. I have Squires in several of my > family lines. Considering everything you say about this chap in the > registers, it looks 99% certain that Squire was his given name and he was > probably a labourer or craftsman by trade. > > Cheers > > Celia Renshaw > Bringing lost ancestors home: www.morganhold.com > Free strays database; affordable family research services > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Edward J. Lowitz > Sent: 12 November 2009 17:42 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [WRY] Term "Squire", ELLIS in Horbury > > I've been researching the surname ELLIS from Horbury. In the parish > registers of Horbury, I came across exactly 6 references to the title > 'Squire'. Each was associated with the surname ELLIS for the period > 1598 - > 1812. The entries mentioning Squire Ellis occur from 1767 through 1786. > Being from the US, the title Squire is not one which I commonly use but > based on the Wikipedia entry, I understand that it would be associated > with > a Manor House. I'm trying to find out where this individual fits in > relative to the other ELLIS family members in the area. The Squire is > married to Hannah LNU and had at least three baptized kids (John, Hannah & > Sarah). There is no mention of his marriage or burial. His wife's burial > is mentioned in 1786. Only marriage he was involved with was for a Joseph > Ellis variously described as a "shoemaker" or "laborer". > > My questions are this: > > 1) Why are no other 'Squire's mentioned in the Parish Register? > 2) How did this guy get his title? > 3) If this guy had wealth/status, why is there so little record of him in > the Registers (ex. his death & marriage)? > 4) As a Squire, should there be further documentation of him around > somewhere (ex. deed for the Manor?, papers conferring the title?, > something > in the society pages {smile}?)? > 5) Did this guy just have a title with no wealth? > > At the least, I'd like to know his first name! > > Would sks please provide some insight? > > Thanks guys! > > Ed. > > > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Some useful websites - > FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ > FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On 14 Nov 2009 at 17:15, jean and terry wrote: > Hi, I am wondering if the terms Lord and Squire etc originated as > first names because the Lord or Squire could have fathered the > children. They then arranged for the woman to marry and for her > husband to give the bastard child a name. In this case you would > never be able to tell the true parentage as the husband would appear > on the birth certificates. > I wish I had a fiver for every time I have heard that tale! Almost always they are a piece of fanciful/wishful thinking and a family myth perpetuated by the gullible. One of the golden rules of genealogy is to always look for the most obvious explanation before going into the realms of fantasy - and the most obvious, and common, explanation is that forenames like Lord, Squire, etc, were originally surnames pressed into use as a christian name to perpetuate the name through several generations. It's the same with naïve beginners who always want to attribute the meaning of their surname to exotic foreign ancestors. ALWAYS look for the most obvious explanation first and 7 or 8 times out of 10 you will probably find there is a perfectly simple English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish origin for a name. It has always struck me as odd that genealogy and family history, which is a pastime that should attract the most disciplined and down-to-earth researchers who are not easily misled, seems in fact to draw in so many gullible people who want to believe in fairy tales (and I do NOT mean you, Jean and Terry, I'm just making a general point)! -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE