Hi Maggie Sorry, I only have St John's PR fiche up to 1801, but in the CFHS transcription fiche for this marriage, the transcriber notes that there is an addition to the groom's signature. The addition is unclear, but may read 'Jun'r' The trascriber also notes that this is the only record from this period where the bride is not described as either spinster or widow. regards, Lesley ________________________________ From: "maggiemole@aol.com" <maggiemole@aol.com> To: WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 4 July, 2011 20:02:27 Subject: [WRY] Halifax fiche marriages Does anyone have a fiche copy of the Halifax St John's marriage register? I'm looking at page 186, October 20th 1822, and a marriage between John Thomas and Nanny xxxx Isles both of Ovenden. Nanny signs rather than makes a mark and includes in her signature a middle name, which I cannot make out (I've been using the new Ancestry West Yorkshire Parish Records). I'm hoping the fiche will make it a little clearer than the online image. Can anyone help, please? Many thanks - Maggie Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anyone have a fiche copy of the Halifax St John's marriage register? I'm looking at page 186, October 20th 1822, and a marriage between John Thomas and Nanny xxxx Isles both of Ovenden. Nanny signs rather than makes a mark and includes in her signature a middle name, which I cannot make out (I've been using the new Ancestry West Yorkshire Parish Records). I'm hoping the fiche will make it a little clearer than the online image. Can anyone help, please? Many thanks - Maggie

Hello All, especially Bryn My mothers mother, my maternal grandmother, died hours after giving birth . There were 3 older children and all 4 were distributed among various aunts etc. A kind person went to the church in West Bromwich to look at church records and found my mothers baptism. Also listed was the fact of my mothers adoption by the aunt that raised her and the names of the godparents. As I started all this just before my mother died we have no idea if she knew there was an adoption. A pity that. Happy Hunting Beth in NS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Micklethwaite" <andy.mick@googlemail.com> To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 3:07 AM Subject: Re: [WRY] help please question > Adoption didn't become official until (from memory) 1926 or 1927 - before > that there might be something written, but much more likely it was an > informal arrangement.

Hi Bryn, Not what you were asking about but I found the marriage on line at the Ancestry site between William Ashton and Hannah Louisa Golding at St. Mary's Huddersfield Dec. 24th 1889 in case it helps. This is the image from the parish register and contains their signatures. Ancestry have recently added many West Riding parish register images to the BMD & Parish section of the UK site. I think the only way to find out more about Mabel A. Bennett is to get a copy of her birth certificate to find out who her parents were. Maybe she was the daughter of one of William or Hannah's siblings or the daughter of a friend of other relative and they took her in to bring up as their own. Her birth certificate would, I think, solve the puzzle of where she came from. She was born according to FreeBMD in 1892 If Mabel was an adopted child of William and Hannah then the 1911 census would be the one to show this because it asks the question about how many children were born from their marriage. They would give the number of children born to them but Mabel was not their natural daughter and so should not be counted as such, at least that is how I understand it. This is perhaps why she is stated as Adopted in the 1911 and not in the 1901 census where that question about children born to a marriage is not asked. Regards Jenny DeAngelis <<I was wondering there is anyone on the list that could answer another question for me. I have a little girl (Mable A Bennett born 1893 Barnsley Yks) I have her on all the cens with my William ASHTON and his wife Hannah Louisa, the 1911 is the only one that states Adopted daughter. Question, would there be any adoption papers at that time of birth? and where would they be?>>

Maggie wrote, I don't suppose Hannah Louise was a Bennett before she married? Hi Maggie, Hannah Louisa was a Goldring, (family origins are from Somerset), before she married William ASHTON. The part the minister has written underneath he has put in two addresses, one 7 Crooke st, the other is Summer Lane; my family (ASHTON) always seem to live on Crooke Street. thank you for your input, Bryn Brynda Ashton-Jones London Ontario Canada

Adoption didn't become official until (from memory) 1926 or 1927 - before that there might be something written, but much more likely it was an informal arrangement. HTH Andy. At 23:36 02/07/2011, you wrote: >I was wondering there is anyone on the list that could answer another >question for me. I have a little girl (Mable A Bennett born 1893 >Barnsley Yks) I have her on all the cens with my William ASHTON and his >wife Hannah Louisa, the 1911 is the only one that states Adopted >daughter. Question, would there be any adoption papers at that time of >birth? and where would they be? > >thanks for any help, Bryn > >Brynda Ashton-Jones >London, Ontario >Canada

This should allow you to purchase the birth certificate. I don't suppose Hannah Louise was a Bennett before she married? Maggie England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Mabel Bennett Name: Mabel Bennett Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1892 Registration district: Barnsley Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding Volume: 9c Page: 217 -----Original Message----- From: bmaj <bmaj@rogers.com> To: West-Riding <west-riding-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 23:36 Subject: [WRY] help please question I was wondering there is anyone on the list that could answer another question for me. I have a little girl (Mable A Bennett born 1893 Barnsley Yks) I have her on all the cens with my William ASHTON and his wife Hannah Louisa, the 1911 is the only one that states Adopted daughter. Question, would there be any adoption papers at that time of birth? and where would they be? thanks for any help, Bryn Brynda Ashton-Jones London, Ontario Canada Some useful websites - FREECEN - http://www.freecen.org.uk/ FREEBMD - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ FREEREG - http://www.freereg.org.uk/ Want to know where a place in Yorkshire is - Try Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Andy, thank you for answering. I was just going to send a message to the list saying I had found her Christening in St Marys Barnsley on February 12 1893. The entry reads Mable A BENNETT, father William BENNETT mother Hetty and in brackets it says "name under adoption ASHTON" father was an actor. I couldn't believe my luck, and it was luck because I had looked in the same place before. At least I know that the formal adoption came in 1926-1927 thanks to you. thanks again, Bryn Brynda Ashton-Jones London, Ontario Canada

Thank you Jenny, Thank you Ann for your work so far. Ann i remember seeing the Wakefield one ages ago, i had forgotten it until you mentioned. Wakefield is 15 mins from my home too. and Dewsbury just down the road from Wakefield so it may be possible that the death may come under Wakefield as you say due to hospital etc, there were no NHS in those days, but there could be reasoning behind Wakefield. Surely though the GRO when checking the whole of West Yorkshire would have seen the Wakefield one, but they refunded the money after 1 whole month saying no match. Does this mean i now have to purchase 2 death certs to find they are not mine :( I supplied Dewsbury with a long list of all family members for the informant allthough they are determined it was the husband and he doesn't match my Sarah's husband. I shall Call Wakefield R0 and ask them, Thank you, i shall let you know the outcome. Regards Louise On 2 Jul 2011, at 08:01, west-riding-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Occupation: Wire Drawer (chapgood) > 2. Re: Sarah TAYLOR nee HINKS (Jenny De Angelis) > 3. Re: Sarah Taylor (anne lucas) > 4. Ages in census - was Sarah TAYLOR nee HINKS (Mel Smith) > 5. Photo Restoration (Louise Wortley) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 17:25:54 +1000 > From: "chapgood" <chapgood@bigpond.com> > Subject: [WRY] Occupation: Wire Drawer > To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <3C9A069D39C04A5DA2AFC1543171B97A@default> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Hello Listers, >> From many years ago, I seem to recall the impression that a Wire Drawer, was someone who made all the gold braid on important uniforms, military etc. > > I realise this is quite a different slant, and I will have saved it somewhere, but lets not wait till I find it! > Kind regards, > Coral, Brisbane,Qld. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 12:14:39 +0200 > From: "Jenny De Angelis" <jennyda2@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [WRY] Sarah TAYLOR nee HINKS > To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <2F63F14C918E4FE4A7F88890552F4C39@jennysasus> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > HI Louise, > > <<Also the Dewsbury RO and the GRO have refunded me saying there is no > death??? > Sarah Taylor was on 1901 living with husband Robert in Thornhill Lees, > Dewsbury. He worked on the railways and retired jam 1908 after she had died. > Can anyone else on here find her death between 1901 to 1908? It would be > Dewsbury or Halifax. There may be a possibility it was after 1908 but doubt > it as he apparently retired after her death and moved to live with his son > in Sowerby bridge.>> > > Why are you so sure she died in either Dewsbury or Halifax registration > districts? She could have died anywhere in the country. The fact that you > can't find her death in the indexes to date in either of those areas might > point to the fact that she died elsewhere. > > Her husband worked for the railway as you say, he would perhaps have got > free travel on the railway and either free travel or travel concessions for > his family. So maybe the couple went away by train to somewhere else, > perhaps a little holiday or a visit to family or friends, and she died > while away from home. Maybe, as she seems to have been born in Lancashire, > she had gone to Lancashire to visit family or friends? I would look in that > County for her death and around the Droyslden/Carlton areas to begin with. > > People don't always die in the area in which they have lived all their > lives. I have a couple of people who died away from their home area, one > from County Durham died in Suffolk which are quite a distance apart. But he > was buried back in Co. Durham in his home town. It took me a while to find > his death registration. His wife had died earlier on but not in their then > home town of North Shields but in the Gateshead area in County Durham,on the > other side of the River Tyne. Again it took me a long time to find her > death reg. > > Having said all of that, I believe that FreeBMD are still working on > transcribing the GRO index of Death so that it is not yet complete for all > years. > > <<Sarah Hinks birth and marriage to Robert the other day Ian, it is mine, > however we still cannot understand how she was christened in 1836 when it is > documented in family info on several occasions that she was born May 1837? > Oh well.>> > > In the 1901 census Sarah is shown as 64, The 1901 census was taken on 31st > March. If she was baptised in July then maybe her birth date had been > during April to July and so by the time of the 1901 census in March she > would not have passed her 65 birthday which was to come later that year. If > she was 65 sometime after March 31st 1901 then that puts her as born 1836 > rather than 1837. > > Perhaps the family documentation you speak of was created out of the > misapprehension that she was born in 1837 because her husband gave the wrong > age at death for his wife? He might not have known her absolutely correct > age, maybe he didn't know, or couldn't remember, when he birthday was so > wasn't really certain of her age at death. He was very likely the informant > on her death registration and the rest of the family would perhaps go by > what he said and didn't question it, why would they? Information on death > registration is only as good as the informants knowledge. > > Looking at the earlier census Sarah is noted in the 1881 as 44 again born > 1837 rather than 1836 but possibly due to turn 45 a little later that year. > The 1881 was taken 3rd. April. In the 1841 census Sarah Hinks is with her > parents Richard and Sarah and is shown aged 4. The 1841 was taken 6th June > that year. Sarah might have been sometime between June 7th - 17th July > 1836, the baptism date found for her. if so then this fits with her age of > 4 in the 1841 census, she was waiting for her 5th birthday in a few weeks > time. > > Perhaps the family documented Sarah's birth year as 1837 from her age in > each census which does put her born 1837 but if her birthday fell after the > census was taken in each of those years then it puts her born 1836. I would > say between 7th June-17th July 1836, but I could of course be completely > wrong. A look at the baptism register for her might give her birth date in > the margin if you are lucky. The LDS might have films of those PRs if you > search their library catalogue. You could then hire the relevant film at > your nearest LDS centre and check the entry, and look for other entires for > the Hinks family while you have the film to hand. It would stop you > puzzling over her birth year perhaps and you could concentrate on her death > and burial. But remember not to restrict yourself to an age at death for > someone born exactly in 1837, be flexible with her age. > > Regards > Jenny DeAngelis > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 12:56:29 +0100 (BST) > From: anne lucas <anne_lucas7@yahoo.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [WRY] Sarah Taylor > To: west-riding@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <1309521389.5736.YahooMailClassic@web23902.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > There is a death of a Sarah at Huddersfield, born 1836 died 1906, and one at wakefield born 1837 died 1907. Both possible as the two places had both a large Hospital and both had an old folks department. They?each took people from Dewsbury, Halifax and the surrounding area's > > > > > Today's Topics: > > ???1.? Marriage of TODD and CARLETON 1889 (Jim gmail) > ???2. Re:? WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 6, Issue 132 (Louise Wortley) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:49:01 +1200 > From: "Jim gmail" <shampayne3@gmail.com> > Subject: [WRY] Marriage of TODD and CARLETON 1889 > To: <WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000001cc3702$92c75120$f77e36d2@jimb185fa6f6f3> > Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii" > > I have been searching for many years for one of my grandaunts Mary Ann > CARLTON b 4 Oct 1871 Westmorland d/o Jane > CARL(E)TON.? I have just discovered that she married William TODD an > engineman b c1867 s/o John TODD a Farm Labourer at the Parish Church of St > Stevens, Steeton, Yorkshire, ENG on the 23rd July 1889 after their banns had > been called on the 7th, 14th and 24th of July.? It would appear that > previous to their wedding they lived nearby in Eastburn, Yorkshire, ENG > > I would like to know a little more about them but I can't seem to locate > them in the following censuses.? I would appreciate any further suggestions > > > > Jim Payne > shampayne3@gmail.com > http://shampayne.org.nz > http://ourpedigrees.shampayne.org.nz > http://murchisonquake.shampayne.org.nz > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:02:14 +0100 > From: Louise Wortley <qbangelcakes@aol.com> > Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 6, Issue 132 > To: "west-riding@rootsweb.com" <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <B7A04965-FD65-4A22-98C9-63720196ED96@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset=us-ascii > > Hi everyone > > Thankyou for the Sarah Hinks birth and marriage to Robert te other day Ian, it is mine, however we still cannot understand how she was christened in 1836 when it is documented in family info on several occasions that she was born May 1837? Oh well. > > Also the Dewsbury RO and the GRO have refunded me saying there is no death??? > > Sarah Taylor was on 1901 living with husband Robert in Thornhill Lees, Dewsbury. He worked on the railways and retired jam 1908 after she had died. > > Can anyone else on here find her death between 1901 to 1908? It would be Dewsbury or Halifax. There may be a possibility it was after 1908 but doubt it as he apparently retired after her death and moved to live with his son in Sowerby bridge. > > Thank you, > > Louise > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 25 Jun 2011, at 08:01, west-riding-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> ???1. Re:? Sarah Taylor Death (Ian Logan) >> ???2.? this year's list of who is staring in Who Do You Think You >> ? ? ? Are? (Maureenpontefhs) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 23:04:14 +0100 >> From: "Ian Logan" <ian@logann.orangehome.co.uk> >> Subject: Re: [WRY] Sarah Taylor Death >> To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> >> Cc: qbangelcakes@aol.com >> Message-ID: <E534419911C0417F9ED6C36F7FAC1A09@IanLoganPC> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> ? ? reply-type=original >> >> Hello Louise >> >> I have tried to find burial information about your Sarah Taylor, but with no >> result so far. >> >> But I did find a Sarah Hinks bapt 17 July 1836 at Droylsden, Lancashire, >> father Richard Hinks, mother Sarah Ann Hinks - probably yours as Sarah >> Taylor is in 1901 census aged 64 and born Clayton, Lancs ( Droylsden and >> Clayton are about 2km apart). (Source - www.familysearch.org) >> >> Also found Robert Taylor married Sarah Hinks last quarter 1859 in Ashton Reg >> District ( ref Ashton 8d 713) - again probably yours. (Source www.freebmd) >> >> Maybe you know this already , apologies for overlap if so. >> >> Ian L >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Louise Wortley" <qbangelcakes@aol.com> >> To: <West-riding@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:43 PM >> Subject: [WRY] Sarah Taylor Death >>> I was wondering if SKS would be able to help me. >>> I am trying to obtain a death cert for my 3x great grandmother Sarah >>> Taylor. >>> She was born Sarah Hinks in Clayton Lancashire either 1836 or 1837, she >>> lived with her husband Robert Taylor in Thornhill Lees near Dewsbury, as >>> he worked on the railway. i know from my grandfather that when Sarah died, >>> Robert retired and moved to Sowerby, Halifax, to live with his son, my >>> grandfathers father. I know for certain that he retired Janunary? of 1908 >>> as we have his retirement gift saying so. he then died a few months later >>> in 1908. >>> So my problem is i can find only 1 record which matches, that of a death >>> in Dewsbury in 1907, Dewsbury told me the husband did not match, and would >>> not tell me who the person was who registered the death, only that it was >>> the lady's husband. so i now paid for the general registry office to do a >>> whole search for west yorkshire, i know they are either going to say no, >>> or that they found the Dewsbury one. Anyway it is taking too long, so i >>> wondered if anyone on here could help re with a record of death or parish >>> register etc. >>> It is funny that this Dewsbury one not only matches date wise for her >>> birth, but this death occurred the last quarter of 1907, and my 3 x great >>> grandfather retired Jan 1908, and he did retire when she died. So i want >>> to find a way of finding if this would be the death as Dewsbury RO will >>> not help me. >>> I keep checking Dewsbury and Halifax and it is only that same death which >>> matches. >>> I look forward to your replies. >>> Regards >>> Louise >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 20:54:53 -0400 >> From: Maureenpontefhs <maureenpontefhs@aol.com> >> Subject: [WRY] this year's list of who is staring in Who Do You Think >> ? ? You? ? Are? >> To: WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: <8CE00E9A14687BF-820-A8E5@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> >> J.K.ROWLING - author (Harry Potter) >> >> JUNE BROWN - actress (Dot Cotton - Eastenders) >> ALAN CARR? - comedian >> SEB COE? - athlete >> LARRY LAMB - actor (eg. Archie Mitchell - Eastenders) >> EMILIA FOX - actress (eg. Silent Witness) >> RICHARD MADELEY TV personality - (Richard & Judy) >> LEN GOODMAN - dancer & judge >> TRACY EMIN - artist unique artwork >> ROBIN GIBB - singer (Bee Gees) >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To contact the WEST-RIDING list administrator, send an email to >> WEST-RIDING-admin@rootsweb.com. >> >> To post a message to the WEST-RIDING mailing list, send an email to WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com. >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> email with no additional text. >> >> >> End of WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 6, Issue 132 >> ******************************************* > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the WEST-RIDING list administrator, send an email to > WEST-RIDING-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the WEST-RIDING mailing list, send an email to WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 6, Issue 136 > ******************************************* > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 09:16:52 -0400 > From: "Mel Smith" <melvynsmith@gmail.com> > Subject: [WRY] Ages in census - was Sarah TAYLOR nee HINKS > To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <002b01cc37f1$252d6600$6f883200$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I have found it very interesting that all the online sites (Ancestry, > FindMyPast etc) with census details always subtract the person's age from > the census year to get a birth year. However, with the census generally > taking place at end of March or early April, there is only a 25% chance that > they have calculated the correct year, while there is a 75% chance that it > is the previous year. > > Think about it. At census time (ie 1881) there is a period of 9 months > (April to December) during which the person will have their next birthday > but only 3 months (January to March) that it will be the following year. So > there is a 3 in 4 chance that the birth year would be calculated correctly > if the age was subtracted from the previous year to the census date (ie > 1880). > > When I am looking for a Birth Reference I always look first at the earlier > year. And again, the starting age is always only as good as someone's memory > or knowledge. > > Mel Smith > Whitby, Ontario, Canada. > > <snip> > Looking at the earlier census Sarah is noted in the 1881 as 44 again born > 1837 rather than 1836 but possibly due to turn 45 a little later that year. > The 1881 was taken 3rd. April. In the 1841 census Sarah Hinks is with her > parents Richard and Sarah and is shown aged 4. The 1841 was taken 6th June > that year. Sarah might have been sometime between June 7th - 17th July > 1836, the baptism date found for her. if so then this fits with her age of > 4 in the 1841 census, she was waiting for her 5th birthday in a few weeks > time. > > Perhaps the family documented Sarah's birth year as 1837 from her age in > each census which does put her born 1837 but if her birthday fell after the > census was taken in each of those years then it puts her born 1836. I would > > say between 7th June-17th July 1836, but I could of course be completely > wrong. A look at the baptism register for her might give her birth date in > the margin if you are lucky. The LDS might have films of those PRs if you > search their library catalogue. You could then hire the relevant film at > your nearest LDS centre and check the entry, and look for other entires for > the Hinks family while you have the film to hand. It would stop you > puzzling over her birth year perhaps and you could concentrate on her death > and burial. But remember not to restrict yourself to an age at death for > someone born exactly in 1837, be flexible with her age. > <snip> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 22:44:52 +0100 > From: Louise Wortley <qbangelcakes@aol.com> > Subject: [WRY] Photo Restoration > To: west-riding@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <575887C5-8769-4B55-AEB1-E53E8B404FDF@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Good evening to everyone, > > I have recently been restoring my damaged family photos ready to create my family tree book for members of the family and it got me thinking. If i can restore my photos and be pleased with them, then maybe there are persons on the list who also have damaged photos who would love for them to be restored. > > If you are interested in me doing this for you please contact me off list. I can provide examples from my family album which i have done, so that you are able to see what can be achieved. > > There will be a small charge for my time, but it is well worth it. > > All i would need is a scanned copy of the photo, and i can do the rest, > > I look forward to hearing from you, > > Regards > > Louise > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the WEST-RIDING list administrator, send an email to > WEST-RIDING-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the WEST-RIDING mailing list, send an email to WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 6, Issue 137 > *******************************************

I was wondering there is anyone on the list that could answer another question for me. I have a little girl (Mable A Bennett born 1893 Barnsley Yks) I have her on all the cens with my William ASHTON and his wife Hannah Louisa, the 1911 is the only one that states Adopted daughter. Question, would there be any adoption papers at that time of birth? and where would they be? thanks for any help, Bryn Brynda Ashton-Jones London, Ontario Canada

Good evening to everyone, I have recently been restoring my damaged family photos ready to create my family tree book for members of the family and it got me thinking. If i can restore my photos and be pleased with them, then maybe there are persons on the list who also have damaged photos who would love for them to be restored. If you are interested in me doing this for you please contact me off list. I can provide examples from my family album which i have done, so that you are able to see what can be achieved. There will be a small charge for my time, but it is well worth it. All i would need is a scanned copy of the photo, and i can do the rest, I look forward to hearing from you, Regards Louise

Hello Listers, >From many years ago, I seem to recall the impression that a Wire Drawer, was someone who made all the gold braid on important uniforms, military etc. I realise this is quite a different slant, and I will have saved it somewhere, but lets not wait till I find it! Kind regards, Coral, Brisbane,Qld.

There is a death of a Sarah at Huddersfield, born 1836 died 1906, and one at wakefield born 1837 died 1907. Both possible as the two places had both a large Hospital and both had an old folks department. They each took people from Dewsbury, Halifax and the surrounding area's Today's Topics:    1.  Marriage of TODD and CARLETON 1889 (Jim gmail)    2. Re:  WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 6, Issue 132 (Louise Wortley) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 20:49:01 +1200 From: "Jim gmail" <shampayne3@gmail.com> Subject: [WRY] Marriage of TODD and CARLETON 1889 To: <WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000001cc3702$92c75120$f77e36d2@jimb185fa6f6f3> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" I have been searching for many years for one of my grandaunts Mary Ann CARLTON b 4 Oct 1871 Westmorland d/o Jane CARL(E)TON.  I have just discovered that she married William TODD an engineman b c1867 s/o John TODD a Farm Labourer at the Parish Church of St Stevens, Steeton, Yorkshire, ENG on the 23rd July 1889 after their banns had been called on the 7th, 14th and 24th of July.  It would appear that previous to their wedding they lived nearby in Eastburn, Yorkshire, ENG I would like to know a little more about them but I can't seem to locate them in the following censuses.  I would appreciate any further suggestions Jim Payne shampayne3@gmail.com http://shampayne.org.nz http://ourpedigrees.shampayne.org.nz http://murchisonquake.shampayne.org.nz ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:02:14 +0100 From: Louise Wortley <qbangelcakes@aol.com> Subject: Re: [WRY] WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 6, Issue 132 To: "west-riding@rootsweb.com" <west-riding@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <B7A04965-FD65-4A22-98C9-63720196ED96@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii Hi everyone Thankyou for the Sarah Hinks birth and marriage to Robert te other day Ian, it is mine, however we still cannot understand how she was christened in 1836 when it is documented in family info on several occasions that she was born May 1837? Oh well. Also the Dewsbury RO and the GRO have refunded me saying there is no death??? Sarah Taylor was on 1901 living with husband Robert in Thornhill Lees, Dewsbury. He worked on the railways and retired jam 1908 after she had died. Can anyone else on here find her death between 1901 to 1908? It would be Dewsbury or Halifax. There may be a possibility it was after 1908 but doubt it as he apparently retired after her death and moved to live with his son in Sowerby bridge. Thank you, Louise Sent from my iPhone On 25 Jun 2011, at 08:01, west-riding-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > >   1. Re:  Sarah Taylor Death (Ian Logan) >   2.  this year's list of who is staring in Who Do You Think You >      Are? (Maureenpontefhs) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 23:04:14 +0100 > From: "Ian Logan" <ian@logann.orangehome.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [WRY] Sarah Taylor Death > To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Cc: qbangelcakes@aol.com > Message-ID: <E534419911C0417F9ED6C36F7FAC1A09@IanLoganPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >    reply-type=original > > Hello Louise > > I have tried to find burial information about your Sarah Taylor, but with no > result so far. > > But I did find a Sarah Hinks bapt 17 July 1836 at Droylsden, Lancashire, > father Richard Hinks, mother Sarah Ann Hinks - probably yours as Sarah > Taylor is in 1901 census aged 64 and born Clayton, Lancs ( Droylsden and > Clayton are about 2km apart). (Source - www.familysearch.org) > > Also found Robert Taylor married Sarah Hinks last quarter 1859 in Ashton Reg > District ( ref Ashton 8d 713) - again probably yours. (Source www.freebmd) > > Maybe you know this already , apologies for overlap if so. > > Ian L > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Louise Wortley" <qbangelcakes@aol.com> > To: <West-riding@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:43 PM > Subject: [WRY] Sarah Taylor Death >> I was wondering if SKS would be able to help me. >> I am trying to obtain a death cert for my 3x great grandmother Sarah >> Taylor. >> She was born Sarah Hinks in Clayton Lancashire either 1836 or 1837, she >> lived with her husband Robert Taylor in Thornhill Lees near Dewsbury, as >> he worked on the railway. i know from my grandfather that when Sarah died, >> Robert retired and moved to Sowerby, Halifax, to live with his son, my >> grandfathers father. I know for certain that he retired Janunary  of 1908 >> as we have his retirement gift saying so. he then died a few months later >> in 1908. >> So my problem is i can find only 1 record which matches, that of a death >> in Dewsbury in 1907, Dewsbury told me the husband did not match, and would >> not tell me who the person was who registered the death, only that it was >> the lady's husband. so i now paid for the general registry office to do a >> whole search for west yorkshire, i know they are either going to say no, >> or that they found the Dewsbury one. Anyway it is taking too long, so i >> wondered if anyone on here could help re with a record of death or parish >> register etc. >> It is funny that this Dewsbury one not only matches date wise for her >> birth, but this death occurred the last quarter of 1907, and my 3 x great >> grandfather retired Jan 1908, and he did retire when she died. So i want >> to find a way of finding if this would be the death as Dewsbury RO will >> not help me. >> I keep checking Dewsbury and Halifax and it is only that same death which >> matches. >> I look forward to your replies. >> Regards >> Louise > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 20:54:53 -0400 > From: Maureenpontefhs <maureenpontefhs@aol.com> > Subject: [WRY] this year's list of who is staring in Who Do You Think >    You    Are? > To: WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <8CE00E9A14687BF-820-A8E5@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > J.K.ROWLING - author (Harry Potter) > > JUNE BROWN - actress (Dot Cotton - Eastenders) > ALAN CARR  - comedian > SEB COE  - athlete > LARRY LAMB - actor (eg. Archie Mitchell - Eastenders) > EMILIA FOX - actress (eg. Silent Witness) > RICHARD MADELEY TV personality - (Richard & Judy) > LEN GOODMAN - dancer & judge > TRACY EMIN - artist unique artwork > ROBIN GIBB - singer (Bee Gees) > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the WEST-RIDING list administrator, send an email to > WEST-RIDING-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the WEST-RIDING mailing list, send an email to WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 6, Issue 132 > ******************************************* ------------------------------ To contact the WEST-RIDING list administrator, send an email to WEST-RIDING-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the WEST-RIDING mailing list, send an email to WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 6, Issue 136 *******************************************

HI Louise, <<Also the Dewsbury RO and the GRO have refunded me saying there is no death??? Sarah Taylor was on 1901 living with husband Robert in Thornhill Lees, Dewsbury. He worked on the railways and retired jam 1908 after she had died. Can anyone else on here find her death between 1901 to 1908? It would be Dewsbury or Halifax. There may be a possibility it was after 1908 but doubt it as he apparently retired after her death and moved to live with his son in Sowerby bridge.>> Why are you so sure she died in either Dewsbury or Halifax registration districts? She could have died anywhere in the country. The fact that you can't find her death in the indexes to date in either of those areas might point to the fact that she died elsewhere. Her husband worked for the railway as you say, he would perhaps have got free travel on the railway and either free travel or travel concessions for his family. So maybe the couple went away by train to somewhere else, perhaps a little holiday or a visit to family or friends, and she died while away from home. Maybe, as she seems to have been born in Lancashire, she had gone to Lancashire to visit family or friends? I would look in that County for her death and around the Droyslden/Carlton areas to begin with. People don't always die in the area in which they have lived all their lives. I have a couple of people who died away from their home area, one from County Durham died in Suffolk which are quite a distance apart. But he was buried back in Co. Durham in his home town. It took me a while to find his death registration. His wife had died earlier on but not in their then home town of North Shields but in the Gateshead area in County Durham,on the other side of the River Tyne. Again it took me a long time to find her death reg. Having said all of that, I believe that FreeBMD are still working on transcribing the GRO index of Death so that it is not yet complete for all years. <<Sarah Hinks birth and marriage to Robert the other day Ian, it is mine, however we still cannot understand how she was christened in 1836 when it is documented in family info on several occasions that she was born May 1837? Oh well.>> In the 1901 census Sarah is shown as 64, The 1901 census was taken on 31st March. If she was baptised in July then maybe her birth date had been during April to July and so by the time of the 1901 census in March she would not have passed her 65 birthday which was to come later that year. If she was 65 sometime after March 31st 1901 then that puts her as born 1836 rather than 1837. Perhaps the family documentation you speak of was created out of the misapprehension that she was born in 1837 because her husband gave the wrong age at death for his wife? He might not have known her absolutely correct age, maybe he didn't know, or couldn't remember, when he birthday was so wasn't really certain of her age at death. He was very likely the informant on her death registration and the rest of the family would perhaps go by what he said and didn't question it, why would they? Information on death registration is only as good as the informants knowledge. Looking at the earlier census Sarah is noted in the 1881 as 44 again born 1837 rather than 1836 but possibly due to turn 45 a little later that year. The 1881 was taken 3rd. April. In the 1841 census Sarah Hinks is with her parents Richard and Sarah and is shown aged 4. The 1841 was taken 6th June that year. Sarah might have been sometime between June 7th - 17th July 1836, the baptism date found for her. if so then this fits with her age of 4 in the 1841 census, she was waiting for her 5th birthday in a few weeks time. Perhaps the family documented Sarah's birth year as 1837 from her age in each census which does put her born 1837 but if her birthday fell after the census was taken in each of those years then it puts her born 1836. I would say between 7th June-17th July 1836, but I could of course be completely wrong. A look at the baptism register for her might give her birth date in the margin if you are lucky. The LDS might have films of those PRs if you search their library catalogue. You could then hire the relevant film at your nearest LDS centre and check the entry, and look for other entires for the Hinks family while you have the film to hand. It would stop you puzzling over her birth year perhaps and you could concentrate on her death and burial. But remember not to restrict yourself to an age at death for someone born exactly in 1837, be flexible with her age. Regards Jenny DeAngelis

I have found it very interesting that all the online sites (Ancestry, FindMyPast etc) with census details always subtract the person's age from the census year to get a birth year. However, with the census generally taking place at end of March or early April, there is only a 25% chance that they have calculated the correct year, while there is a 75% chance that it is the previous year. Think about it. At census time (ie 1881) there is a period of 9 months (April to December) during which the person will have their next birthday but only 3 months (January to March) that it will be the following year. So there is a 3 in 4 chance that the birth year would be calculated correctly if the age was subtracted from the previous year to the census date (ie 1880). When I am looking for a Birth Reference I always look first at the earlier year. And again, the starting age is always only as good as someone's memory or knowledge. Mel Smith Whitby, Ontario, Canada. <snip> Looking at the earlier census Sarah is noted in the 1881 as 44 again born 1837 rather than 1836 but possibly due to turn 45 a little later that year. The 1881 was taken 3rd. April. In the 1841 census Sarah Hinks is with her parents Richard and Sarah and is shown aged 4. The 1841 was taken 6th June that year. Sarah might have been sometime between June 7th - 17th July 1836, the baptism date found for her. if so then this fits with her age of 4 in the 1841 census, she was waiting for her 5th birthday in a few weeks time. Perhaps the family documented Sarah's birth year as 1837 from her age in each census which does put her born 1837 but if her birthday fell after the census was taken in each of those years then it puts her born 1836. I would say between 7th June-17th July 1836, but I could of course be completely wrong. A look at the baptism register for her might give her birth date in the margin if you are lucky. The LDS might have films of those PRs if you search their library catalogue. You could then hire the relevant film at your nearest LDS centre and check the entry, and look for other entires for the Hinks family while you have the film to hand. It would stop you puzzling over her birth year perhaps and you could concentrate on her death and burial. But remember not to restrict yourself to an age at death for someone born exactly in 1837, be flexible with her age. <snip>

I have been searching for many years for one of my grandaunts Mary Ann CARLTON b 4 Oct 1871 Westmorland d/o Jane CARL(E)TON. I have just discovered that she married William TODD an engineman b c1867 s/o John TODD a Farm Labourer at the Parish Church of St Stevens, Steeton, Yorkshire, ENG on the 23rd July 1889 after their banns had been called on the 7th, 14th and 24th of July. It would appear that previous to their wedding they lived nearby in Eastburn, Yorkshire, ENG I would like to know a little more about them but I can't seem to locate them in the following censuses. I would appreciate any further suggestions Jim Payne shampayne3@gmail.com http://shampayne.org.nz http://ourpedigrees.shampayne.org.nz http://murchisonquake.shampayne.org.nz

Hi everyone Thankyou for the Sarah Hinks birth and marriage to Robert te other day Ian, it is mine, however we still cannot understand how she was christened in 1836 when it is documented in family info on several occasions that she was born May 1837? Oh well. Also the Dewsbury RO and the GRO have refunded me saying there is no death??? Sarah Taylor was on 1901 living with husband Robert in Thornhill Lees, Dewsbury. He worked on the railways and retired jam 1908 after she had died. Can anyone else on here find her death between 1901 to 1908? It would be Dewsbury or Halifax. There may be a possibility it was after 1908 but doubt it as he apparently retired after her death and moved to live with his son in Sowerby bridge. Thank you, Louise Sent from my iPhone On 25 Jun 2011, at 08:01, west-riding-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Sarah Taylor Death (Ian Logan) > 2. this year's list of who is staring in Who Do You Think You > Are? (Maureenpontefhs) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 23:04:14 +0100 > From: "Ian Logan" <ian@logann.orangehome.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [WRY] Sarah Taylor Death > To: <west-riding@rootsweb.com> > Cc: qbangelcakes@aol.com > Message-ID: <E534419911C0417F9ED6C36F7FAC1A09@IanLoganPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello Louise > > I have tried to find burial information about your Sarah Taylor, but with no > result so far. > > But I did find a Sarah Hinks bapt 17 July 1836 at Droylsden, Lancashire, > father Richard Hinks, mother Sarah Ann Hinks - probably yours as Sarah > Taylor is in 1901 census aged 64 and born Clayton, Lancs ( Droylsden and > Clayton are about 2km apart). (Source - www.familysearch.org) > > Also found Robert Taylor married Sarah Hinks last quarter 1859 in Ashton Reg > District ( ref Ashton 8d 713) - again probably yours. (Source www.freebmd) > > Maybe you know this already , apologies for overlap if so. > > Ian L > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Louise Wortley" <qbangelcakes@aol.com> > To: <West-riding@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:43 PM > Subject: [WRY] Sarah Taylor Death >> I was wondering if SKS would be able to help me. >> I am trying to obtain a death cert for my 3x great grandmother Sarah >> Taylor. >> She was born Sarah Hinks in Clayton Lancashire either 1836 or 1837, she >> lived with her husband Robert Taylor in Thornhill Lees near Dewsbury, as >> he worked on the railway. i know from my grandfather that when Sarah died, >> Robert retired and moved to Sowerby, Halifax, to live with his son, my >> grandfathers father. I know for certain that he retired Janunary of 1908 >> as we have his retirement gift saying so. he then died a few months later >> in 1908. >> So my problem is i can find only 1 record which matches, that of a death >> in Dewsbury in 1907, Dewsbury told me the husband did not match, and would >> not tell me who the person was who registered the death, only that it was >> the lady's husband. so i now paid for the general registry office to do a >> whole search for west yorkshire, i know they are either going to say no, >> or that they found the Dewsbury one. Anyway it is taking too long, so i >> wondered if anyone on here could help re with a record of death or parish >> register etc. >> It is funny that this Dewsbury one not only matches date wise for her >> birth, but this death occurred the last quarter of 1907, and my 3 x great >> grandfather retired Jan 1908, and he did retire when she died. So i want >> to find a way of finding if this would be the death as Dewsbury RO will >> not help me. >> I keep checking Dewsbury and Halifax and it is only that same death which >> matches. >> I look forward to your replies. >> Regards >> Louise > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 20:54:53 -0400 > From: Maureenpontefhs <maureenpontefhs@aol.com> > Subject: [WRY] this year's list of who is staring in Who Do You Think > You Are? > To: WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <8CE00E9A14687BF-820-A8E5@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > J.K.ROWLING - author (Harry Potter) > > JUNE BROWN - actress (Dot Cotton - Eastenders) > ALAN CARR - comedian > SEB COE - athlete > LARRY LAMB - actor (eg. Archie Mitchell - Eastenders) > EMILIA FOX - actress (eg. Silent Witness) > RICHARD MADELEY TV personality - (Richard & Judy) > LEN GOODMAN - dancer & judge > TRACY EMIN - artist unique artwork > ROBIN GIBB - singer (Bee Gees) > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the WEST-RIDING list administrator, send an email to > WEST-RIDING-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the WEST-RIDING mailing list, send an email to WEST-RIDING@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WEST-RIDING-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of WEST-RIDING Digest, Vol 6, Issue 132 > *******************************************

I apologise for sending my message about wire drawing twice. How I managed to have two copies of the same message on my computer I can't understand. Regards Jenny DeAngelis

Hi Roger, I used to work in the offices of a Copper Wire manufacturer and my husband did his engineering apprenticeship within the factory departments for part of each year. My department boss took great delight in taking the girls that worked for him on a tour around the factory departments where the wire was Drawn and coated in various materials. A wire drawer looks after a Drawing machine. A Billet, like an large ingot, of Copper was put into the first drawing machine and that would be drawn, kind of stretched, down to a finer state by the dies within the machine. The next machine along would have smaller dies than the first to draw the wire finer still, and so on down the line of machines. The copper would pass through each machine in turn until the correct thinness of wire was reached according to what was needed. Some wire was then either coated in an Enamel coating via another machine, while others were coated in cotton strands that were plaited around the wire as the wire and the strands of cotton were passed through the plaiting machine to be automatically coated with cotton strands forming a plait at it all went along. Look at the flex on a household iron to see the type of plaiting I mean. Some wire was made up of a number of strands of fine wire plaited together by another machine, the diameters of these plaits of wire varied according to what was required. These too would have a covering of one kind or another. In the case of the comber, neither myself nor my husband can think what job a comber would have in a Wire Drawing factory. I can only think that as the Maibery men were living in Halifax where there were a lot of Woollen mills perhaps they were changing occupation accordingly. Although they were experienced Wire Drawers perhaps, Thomas Maibery in Particular, was changing his occupation to become a Wool Comber but he noted both occupations on the census schedule in 1851. Hope this helps a little. Regards Jenny DeAngelis <<I have just identified a family in 1841/51 census records where a number of the men gave their occupation as "wire drawer" and in one instance the word "comber" is associated. Until I spotted the "comber" reference I had considered them to be simply associated with the metal industry. However, that set me thinking -always a bit dangerous! >>

A combing machine would have been the one that took several strands of wire (up to thousands) and twisted them into a bundle. This wire could be both bare wire as used in flexible wire which would have been later coated in a insulation, or a large group of insulated wires forming a cable used for such things as telephone lines etc. It would have been similar to machines used in rope and thread making. Possibly one or more machines would have formed an assembly line - each machine adding an additional covering. I often come across double cotton covered wires in the pipe organ trade. We use wire up to #35 AWG (.005600") which is not that much thicker than very coarse hair. Incredibly it was often coated in two layers of waxed silk and was used on very small electro-magnets. Many of these units are still in daily operation 120 years later! The people who tended these machines would have been very skilled people indeed to keep them running smoothly. Traditionally the wires were not colour coded so sorting them out in large cables as used in pipe organs and telephone cables was a time consuming and tedious job. Today wire is usually made with plastic or enamel coatings and is colour coded. a patent on a machine that does this work. http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090065091?Comments[do]=mod&Comments[pid]=1&Comments[id]=1 a picture of a simple machine http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/359557928/electrical_wire_and_cable_making_machine/showimage.html Nelson Denton pipe organ builder