Orin, Regarding baseline family W006 it seems that two lines of descent are marked by mutations. You had mentioned that Roberts descendants were distinguished by a mutation on DYS437 and yesterday I was reading a post that might indicate that Nathan's descendants may also be recognized by a mutation on DYS452. My question is do we have any idea how far up the tree these mutations run, with which generation do they originate? Thanks so much for your time. Leslie.