In a message dated 7/25/2009 7:15:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: One DNA group has two brothers with one marker difference between them. It was one of those fast mutations that happened between the birth of the older brother and the younger brother. The rest of the 37 markers are exact. I can't remember if it is the Wells group or the Carter group, does anyone else remember this? Kathy Wells Kathy, This occurred in W037 branch W328 at marker DYS458. #391 is the older brother and #315 is the younger one. The mutation occurred in the older brother, but not in the younger one. Somja **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585106x1201462830/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62)

Bonita, When I click on: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hillmer/DNA/index.htm and then on the RED link I am getting a Rootsweb page with: "We're sorry. The page you tried to access is not available The page may have moved, or there may be an error in the address. Please check the address or try one of the resources below." Regards, Terry M Wells ------------------------------

Bonita when I went to the red section that you suggest we go to (see below) an Ancestery page came up that said "page not available". Also I to have not checked lately and I wanted to follow up on some information. I am from W037-Hiram P. Wells submitted by Sharon Bostick and her brother. Can you tell me where I went wrong? Thanks In a message dated 7/25/2009 2:24:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hillmer/DNA/index.htm **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585106x1201462830/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62)

Ken is correct on the W036 identification for your family. We originally thought the descendents from your branch, Joseph Wells, were connected to W006, Thomas Wells, but discovered through DNA testing this was not the case. We still don't know what happened there. Another Wells family? or some intervention (still unidentified). The numbers can be confusing for the DNA testing. The "bottom line" is two individuals ARE related if their DNA results (numbers) match exactly. The are probably related if they have no more than three differences (5 at 43 markers). Anything beyond that probably means they may have a common ancestor a LONG way back in time, but they are not related closely enough in recent times to ever have a chance of finding genealogical paper trails to prove it. At 09:38 AM 7/24/2009, [email protected] wrote: >Hello all, > >I have been busy for some months and unable to get to my genealogy work. >When I return to my Wells work, I find that I have forgotten the >designation of my Wells family. I speak of the W--- number that indicates >my line in the DNA results. > >Further, I wonder if there is a textual description of the results that >will make more sense to me that the table of results? I cannot make head >nor tail of that. Unfortunately, I am a female with no known male relatives >who bear the surname, so feel that I cannot benefit from the DNA project. >At least unless there is news that pertains to that line - but how to >determine that? > >Also, some months ago, Bonita did a wonderful job of putting many lines on >a web site. I have lost the URL of that web site. I would be very grateful >if someone would advise me of that URL. > >Thanks for taking the patience to read what is perhaps too lengthy and >varied a message. > >Jane Wells Sarles > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message Orin R. Wells Wells Family Research Association P. O. Box 5427 Kent, Washington 98064-5427 <[email protected]> http://www.wells.org Subscribe to the "Wells-L" list on RootsWeb

Trisha: You too caught me during the upload. Try now. Re: W037 family Sonja Bedwell is working on it as there were many conflicts. She has not sent me a new update for the family as yet, but contact her directly. Hopefully, she will have it done and ready for me soon. Bonita -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:45 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WELLS] WELLS Digest, Vol 4, Issue 160 Bonita when I went to the red section that you suggest we go to (see below) an Ancestery page came up that said "page not available". Also I to have not checked lately and I wanted to follow up on some information. I am from W037-Hiram P. Wells submitted by Sharon Bostick and her brother. Can you tell me where I went wrong? Thanks In a message dated 7/25/2009 2:24:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hillmer/DNA/index.htm **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585106x1201462830/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585106x1201462830/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul> &hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090724-0, 07/24/2009 Tested on: 7/25/2009 9:41:27 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.

Kathy This is not as uncommon as you think. In my group, in both branches, we have a number of mutations between brothers and father-son. Currently we are waiting for SMGF results to see if these mutations are transient or not. They could be environmental and not pass on. Also, if environmentally caused, was it before or after offspring is a factor. In all cases so far, every mutation has been on different markers: 389ii, 442, 463, and Gata A10. All have been only a single mutation with a single change in value. I am not sure what you mean by fast mutations. Depending upon whose analysis, some claim markers change at different rates. This is a highly disputed area where too little data has been obtained so far. Several more generations of people are needed to resolve the statistics. Right now, the best samples we have cover 3 generations - grandfather, father, and son. Going back in time, we have to extrapolate the patterns from multiple lines with proven genealogies. Based upon those results, we can estimate the pattern for the common ancestor, and the descendants down to the tested persons. It is possible a mutation or 2 could have happened that carried across all family lines, even in different generations. > One DNA group has two brothers with one marker difference between them. > It > was one of those fast mutations that happened between the birth of the > older > brother and the younger brother. The rest of the 37 markers are exact. > I > can't remember if it is the Wells group or the Carter group, does anyone > else remember this? > Kathy Wells >

One DNA group has two brothers with one marker difference between them. It was one of those fast mutations that happened between the birth of the older brother and the younger brother. The rest of the 37 markers are exact. I can't remember if it is the Wells group or the Carter group, does anyone else remember this? Kathy Wells ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leslie W Wells" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 8:48 AM Subject: [WELLS] mutations > Orin, > > Regarding baseline family W006 it seems that two lines of descent are > marked by mutations. You had mentioned that Roberts descendants were > distinguished by a mutation on DYS437 and yesterday I was reading a post > that might indicate that Nathan's descendants may also be recognized by a > mutation on DYS452. My question is do we have any idea how far up the > tree these mutations run, with which generation do they originate? Thanks > so much for your time. > > Leslie. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Bonita. I changed computers and managed to lose stuff. Jane On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:12 PM, LadyBonita (USA) <[email protected]>wrote: > Here is the URL for Wells DNA Study gedcom merge .. click on RED > "W001-W999" > to enter: > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hillmer/DNA/index.htm<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Ehillmer/DNA/index.htm> > > > > Bonita > > > > > > Also, some months ago, Bonita did a wonderful job of putting many lines on > > a web site. I have lost the URL of that web site. I would be very grateful > > if someone would advise me of that URL. > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 090724-0, 07/24/2009 > Tested on: 7/24/2009 5:12:40 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

You caught me during my update ... try again, it should work fine now. Bonita -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Terry M Wells Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:52 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WELLS] WELLS Digest, Vol 4, Issue 160 Bonita, When I click on: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hillmer/DNA/index.htm and then on the RED link I am getting a Rootsweb page with: "We're sorry. The page you tried to access is not available The page may have moved, or there may be an error in the address. Please check the address or try one of the resources below." Regards, Terry M Wells ------------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090724-0, 07/24/2009 Tested on: 7/25/2009 9:03:35 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.

Just wanted to tell you all that I am alive and still working on merging duplicate individuals (and trying to sort out things that conflict as I merge them). I did upload the current data last night. The merging duplicate individuals is a 'work in progress' so it will still take me a while longer before it is totally finished. <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hillmer/DNA/index.htm> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hillmer/DNA/index.htm Bonita Hillmer \\\|/// \\ ~ ~ // ( @ @ ) ----oOOo-(_)-oOOo---- Just Looking for clues ... Lady Bonita Arizona, USA _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090724-0, 07/24/2009 Tested on: 7/25/2009 8:58:37 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.

We have a case where two brothers differ by three markers. One is two markers different from his father and the other one marker different. Each on different markers. Mutations can happen at any time. Just because there is a mutation or one can not declare the marker to be a "fast" mutation or "fast moving marker". I believe that this has been done too often. Just because the existing research has declared most markers can be expected to mutate (change value) on replication once every 500 generations (0.002 chance at every birth/replication) does not mean that it will happen like clockwork. A given marker may alter more frequently or less frequently. And from what we have seen in the Wells study it may happen more or less frequently in specific families. The more important aspect of this to us is has it happened? When it does it can help us isolate specific branches of a family. Unfortunately, it does not happen often enough to give us a lot of help in most situations. At 07:08 AM 7/25/2009, [email protected] wrote: >One DNA group has two brothers with one marker difference between them. It >was one of those fast mutations that happened between the birth of the older >brother and the younger brother. The rest of the 37 markers are exact. I >can't remember if it is the Wells group or the Carter group, does anyone >else remember this? > Kathy Wells > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Leslie W Wells" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 8:48 AM >Subject: [WELLS] mutations > > > > Orin, > > > > Regarding baseline family W006 it seems that two lines of descent are > > marked by mutations. You had mentioned that Roberts descendants were > > distinguished by a mutation on DYS437 and yesterday I was reading a post > > that might indicate that Nathan's descendants may also be recognized by a > > mutation on DYS452. My question is do we have any idea how far up the > > tree these mutations run, with which generation do they originate? Thanks > > so much for your time. > > > > Leslie. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message Orin R. Wells Wells Family Research Association P. O. Box 5427 Kent, Washington 98064-5427 <[email protected]> http://www.wells.org Subscribe to the "Wells-L" list on RootsWeb

was working yesterday, but not today ----- Original Message ----- From: "LadyBonita (USA)" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 6:12 PM Subject: [WELLS] Wells DNA Study Merge URL > Here is the URL for Wells DNA Study gedcom merge .. click on RED > "W001-W999" > to enter: > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hillmer/DNA/index.htm > > > > Bonita > > > > > > Also, some months ago, Bonita did a wonderful job of putting many lines on > > a web site. I have lost the URL of that web site. I would be very grateful > > if someone would advise me of that URL. > > > > > > _____ > > avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. > > > Virus Database (VPS): 090724-0, 07/24/2009 > Tested on: 7/24/2009 5:12:40 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Bonita,The red underlined area was a bad link for me this morning. Yet I saw you last worked on it July 24. Maybe it was a temporary glitch from ancestry or yahoo. Margie --- Here is the URL for Wells DNA Study gedcom merge .. click on RED "W001-W999" to enter: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hillmer/DNA/index.htm Bonita Also, some months ago, Bonita did a wonderful job of putting many lines on  a web site. I have lost the URL of that web site. I would be very grateful  if someone would advise me of that URL.

Here is the URL for Wells DNA Study gedcom merge .. click on RED "W001-W999" to enter: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hillmer/DNA/index.htm Bonita Also, some months ago, Bonita did a wonderful job of putting many lines on a web site. I have lost the URL of that web site. I would be very grateful if someone would advise me of that URL. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090724-0, 07/24/2009 Tested on: 7/24/2009 5:12:40 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.

Hello all, I have been busy for some months and unable to get to my genealogy work. When I return to my Wells work, I find that I have forgotten the designation of my Wells family. I speak of the W--- number that indicates my line in the DNA results. Further, I wonder if there is a textual description of the results that will make more sense to me that the table of results? I cannot make head nor tail of that. Unfortunately, I am a female with no known male relatives who bear the surname, so feel that I cannot benefit from the DNA project. At least unless there is news that pertains to that line - but how to determine that? Also, some months ago, Bonita did a wonderful job of putting many lines on a web site. I have lost the URL of that web site. I would be very grateful if someone would advise me of that URL. Thanks for taking the patience to read what is perhaps too lengthy and varied a message. Jane Wells Sarles

Jane, Your Wells family and mine are W36. My ID# is 13. I believe yours is ID# 81 if you descend through Nathaniel Wells/Esther Ward. I descend from William Wells/Martha ??. Ken Wells ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:38 PM Subject: [WELLS] Wells DNA results > Hello all, > > I have been busy for some months and unable to get to my genealogy work. > When I return to my Wells work, I find that I have forgotten the > designation of my Wells family. I speak of the W--- number that indicates > my line in the DNA results. > > Further, I wonder if there is a textual description of the results that > will make more sense to me that the table of results? I cannot make head > nor tail of that. Unfortunately, I am a female with no known male > relatives > who bear the surname, so feel that I cannot benefit from the DNA project. > At least unless there is news that pertains to that line - but how to > determine that? > > Also, some months ago, Bonita did a wonderful job of putting many lines on > a web site. I have lost the URL of that web site. I would be very grateful > if someone would advise me of that URL. > > Thanks for taking the patience to read what is perhaps too lengthy and > varied a message. > > Jane Wells Sarles > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

I have started documenting the descendants of Thomas' son, Robert's son, Jeremiah Wells, who was the sole heir at the time of Robert's will. I have traced Jeremiah's sons from Washington Co., Maryland to Hawkins Co., Tennessee and points west. Go to http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=REG&db=w006&id=I1 Click on any name to see the documentation. There appears to be plenty of possible descendants of Jeremiah for testing which would answer this question. Patricia Straube On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:02 PM, OrinWells <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes, it would appear that everyone with a 15 on DYS437 is descended > from Robert Wells. I have not examined the full connection for those > who have been tested with this marker to see if we can tell if it > was Robert I (son of Thomas Wells & Frances) or through one of his > descendents that this mutation originates, but I have a hunch it > probably was Robert - but hunches are not very good science. Someone > needs to take a closer look at the descendents we have tested and see > who the most recent common ancestor is to help us get a closer > identification. > > I am not aware of any mutations on DYS452. Everyone tested from W006 > has a 25 on this locus. > > To nail down where a mutation comes into play requires several > descendents from an ancestor to be tested. If we find two or more > descendents of a common ancestor who share the mutation but are > descended from different sons of the common ancestor we can be > reasonably sure the common ancestor had the mutation. In the case of > the branch down from Robert, we have quite a few who are descended > from Robert Wells and Mary Downing. So we can be certain the > mutation was present with this Robert. But I don't know without > examining the other descendent trees where it kicked in above this point. > > At 06:48 AM 7/24/2009, Leslie W Wells wrote: > >Orin, > > > > Regarding baseline family W006 it seems that two lines of descent > > are marked by mutations. You had mentioned that Roberts > > descendants were distinguished by a mutation on DYS437 and > > yesterday I was reading a post that might indicate that Nathan's > > descendants may also be recognized by a mutation on DYS452. My > > question is do we have any idea how far up the tree these mutations > > run, with which generation do they originate? Thanks so much for your > time. > > > >Leslie. > > > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > Orin R. Wells > Wells Family Research Association > P. O. Box 5427 > Kent, Washington 98064-5427 > <[email protected]> > http://www.wells.org > Subscribe to the "Wells-L" list on RootsWeb > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you Orin....for all that you do on the entire Wells site. My best to you, Carolann > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:02:34 -0700 > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WELLS] mutations > > Yes, it would appear that everyone with a 15 on DYS437 is descended > from Robert Wells. I have not examined the full connection for those > who have been tested with this marker to see if we can tell if it > was Robert I (son of Thomas Wells & Frances) or through one of his > descendents that this mutation originates, but I have a hunch it > probably was Robert - but hunches are not very good science. Someone > needs to take a closer look at the descendents we have tested and see > who the most recent common ancestor is to help us get a closer identification. > > I am not aware of any mutations on DYS452. Everyone tested from W006 > has a 25 on this locus. > > To nail down where a mutation comes into play requires several > descendents from an ancestor to be tested. If we find two or more > descendents of a common ancestor who share the mutation but are > descended from different sons of the common ancestor we can be > reasonably sure the common ancestor had the mutation. In the case of > the branch down from Robert, we have quite a few who are descended > from Robert Wells and Mary Downing. So we can be certain the > mutation was present with this Robert. But I don't know without > examining the other descendent trees where it kicked in above this point. > > At 06:48 AM 7/24/2009, Leslie W Wells wrote: > >Orin, > > > > Regarding baseline family W006 it seems that two lines of descent > > are marked by mutations. You had mentioned that Roberts > > descendants were distinguished by a mutation on DYS437 and > > yesterday I was reading a post that might indicate that Nathan's > > descendants may also be recognized by a mutation on DYS452. My > > question is do we have any idea how far up the tree these mutations > > run, with which generation do they originate? Thanks so much for your time. > > > >Leslie. > > > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > Orin R. Wells > Wells Family Research Association > P. O. Box 5427 > Kent, Washington 98064-5427 > <[email protected]> > http://www.wells.org > Subscribe to the "Wells-L" list on RootsWeb > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: FamilyGeno Surnames: WELLS Classification: lookup Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.wells/5164.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thanks for posting the details to your request. Sorry, our WELLS family is not connected to your family. Good luck and happy hunting, Pamela WELLS nee ROBERSON http://wellsp.tribalpages.com Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Yes, it would appear that everyone with a 15 on DYS437 is descended from Robert Wells. I have not examined the full connection for those who have been tested with this marker to see if we can tell if it was Robert I (son of Thomas Wells & Frances) or through one of his descendents that this mutation originates, but I have a hunch it probably was Robert - but hunches are not very good science. Someone needs to take a closer look at the descendents we have tested and see who the most recent common ancestor is to help us get a closer identification. I am not aware of any mutations on DYS452. Everyone tested from W006 has a 25 on this locus. To nail down where a mutation comes into play requires several descendents from an ancestor to be tested. If we find two or more descendents of a common ancestor who share the mutation but are descended from different sons of the common ancestor we can be reasonably sure the common ancestor had the mutation. In the case of the branch down from Robert, we have quite a few who are descended from Robert Wells and Mary Downing. So we can be certain the mutation was present with this Robert. But I don't know without examining the other descendent trees where it kicked in above this point. At 06:48 AM 7/24/2009, Leslie W Wells wrote: >Orin, > > Regarding baseline family W006 it seems that two lines of descent > are marked by mutations. You had mentioned that Roberts > descendants were distinguished by a mutation on DYS437 and > yesterday I was reading a post that might indicate that Nathan's > descendants may also be recognized by a mutation on DYS452. My > question is do we have any idea how far up the tree these mutations > run, with which generation do they originate? Thanks so much for your time. > >Leslie. > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message Orin R. Wells Wells Family Research Association P. O. Box 5427 Kent, Washington 98064-5427 <[email protected]> http://www.wells.org Subscribe to the "Wells-L" list on RootsWeb