In a message dated 5/30/2005 5:48:32 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I highly recommend this process to all those folks who worry about being "daughtered out". Thank you Merrell for bringing this up! If a line is down to its last living male (or close, like Dad's alive, 1 son is alive, but there are only daughters after that), now is the time to get the DNA for the lineage done and registered. mtDNA will NOT tell you about the male WEBB line (unless there is a WEBB along it). mtDNA is the donor's mother's mother's mother's mother's mother's mother's....line It CAN be used to test theories about maiden names, sisterhood, two wives, etc. when used in conjunction with another person's sample (or other people's samples). It will also tell you another bit about your deep ancestry. And of course, it will document the male WEBB's wife's DNA for the future. I do recommend that ANYONE who has a documented mtDNA lineage which goes back to the Revolution or earlier have a hig-resolution mtDNA done. Researchers are beginning to talk about locational studies -- that is, for example, take my lineage (names are maiden names, birth date and place): Self Mother(WEBB) Grandmother (WITCHER, 1896, Grayson Co, TX) GreatGrandmother (Mittie Ellen RAMSEY, 1858, Pittsylvania Co, VA) GGreatGrandmother (Judith GILBERT, 1837/8, Pittsylvania Co, VA) GGGgrandmother (Lucy WITCHER, c. 1811, Pittsylvania Co, VA) GGGGGrandmother (Judah EDWARDS, c. 1786, Henry CO, VA) GGGGGGrandmother (Price?, c. 1750/60, VA) If we build a database of VIRGINA Pre-Revolution, and everyone who has a line like mine submits their lineage and mtDNA, we could come up with some matches and perhaps identify some of those lost maiden names. We welcome both Y-DNA and mtDNA in our Project as long as a WEBB is on the lineage. Anne

Anne, Thanks for the response to my "collateral" question. What you described is exactly what I did. My mother was born a Webb. Instead of going the mitochondrial DNA process (mtDNA), I sponsored one of her brothers to submit the sample and arranged for the the results and newsletters to be sent to me. I, of course, share information with the elderly donor uncle who is technologically challanged, but very interested in his ancestry. I highly recommend this process to all those folks who worry about being "daughtered out". Merrell Arnold

In a message dated 5/29/2005 10:42:41 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: The WEBB Surname DNA Project Newsletters are posted for the public to peruse at _www.webbsurnamedna.org_ (http://www.webbsurnamedna.org) . Just look at the upper left of the home page for the link. There are links on the website to sign up for the newsletter and links to join the project. For your particular purposes, Moira, I suggest reading the most recent and working backwards as our focus initially was primarily US and especially the South. As the project has grown and international participants have joined, I have expanded the international portions of the Newsletter. The most recent have some Irish and English research notes that you may find helpful. I have already signed you up for future issues. I am emailing you offlist with a Marker Comparison Chart which will show you exactly which markers are tested by which labs in which packages at what price and has some analysis of the least expensive ways to obtain the most markers and information. Feel free to ask any questions you have about his chart. Anyone else interested may email me offlist for it. I also suggest you visit the providers (URLs on the marker comparison chart I am sending you). and read their Tutorials. The two with links on our website have brochures and a video you may request from them for free to help you understand how DNA helps with genealogy. Feel free to email me offlist for any questions that cannot be addressed with list rules, and to ask questions onlist that can be answered here. Every WEBB DNA sample tells us more about the WEBBs of the world. Anne

Hello again, everyone -- I'm wondering if anyone is researching Webb lineage that remained in Ireland. The gentleman whose bio I'm working on is part of a family that has been in North County Tipperary for several centuries -- we think probably (blush) having arrived with Cromwell. Dr. Webb himself left Ireland in 1952 (sailing across with friends in a sailboat - the Aisling - that they built) to the Caribbean. From there, he went to Canada, spent some time in the Arctic and the Yukon, then came to the U.S., and has been here ever since. We know that other surnames in the family are Gordon (as in "Chinese Gordon" of Khartoum fame) Napier, Coote and, on the Mother's side, Mills. Dr. Webb and I have talked a little about the Webb DNA project, and he has expressed some interest. I'd like to have more information to present him, as the resources I've looked at showed substantially different costs for what was apparently the same test. I'd also like to learn more about the Webb DNA newsletter, especially whether back copies that might deal with English and Irish lines are available - and how one subscribes to the newsletter. Many thanks to everyone for the always-interesting postings. MoiraLynn Mefein

Thanks, Anne! Betty Webb www.bettywebb-mystery.com Author of "DESERT SHADOWS: PUBLISHING CAN BE MURDER," "DESERT WIVES: POLYGAMY CAN BE MURDER," and "DESERT NOIR." All by Poisoned Pen Press. "Eye-popping." The NEW YORK TIMES. "Loyalty, compassion and a sharp sense of humor help Arizona PI Lena Jones survive as she continues to struggle with her troubled past in Webb's third socially conscious, thought-provoking mystery." PUBLISHERS WEEKLY

In a message dated 5/27/2005 10:22:27 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Anne: I have a gg aunt by the name of Angline Webb. Her father died the year she was born and her mother died when she was 7 years old. She went to live with her uncle and shows up in the 1850 TN Census in the OTHER Listing which means Other Sir Names Living in a Subject House Hold that does not have the same Sir Name. e.g. Angline Webb was living with her uncle Rev. John Landrum. After 1850 I have not yet found her in TN. Still looking. Later I found an Angline Landrum marriage. Could be her uncle adopted her.? Sam Webb Could be. Could also be Angline was a family name and Angline Webb was named for an aunt. Example from my own family, Cordelia Brandon Worsham married William Henry Webb and they had a child named Sarah A. Webb (in the Census). Sarah A. Webb died as an infant. As my research progressed I realized Sarah A. stood for Sarah Angeline. Then I found that Cordelia's sister Sarah A. was also Sarah Angeline. I also found that William Henry had a sister named Maranda Angeline. Moral of the story: check the marriage date against possible Landrum (birth name) girls to make sure there isn't a Martha A. Landrum of the same age -- while you pursue the theory that Angline is Angline Webb adopted by Landrum. Eventually the weight of evidence should point one way or another. Side note: if Angline Webb had a known sister (or her mother did) and you can track both that sister and Angline Landrum (Married name) to living descendants with all female lines in between, you can test mtDNA. A match isn't conclusive proof that Angline Webb = Angline Landrum but a mismatch sure means they aren't. Don't have to worry about non-maternity events (well unto the time in vitro fertilization and surrogate moms etc get into the research timeframe!). Anne

Anne: I have a gg aunt by the name of Angline Webb. Her father died the year she was born and her mother died when she was 7 years old. She went to live with her uncle and shows up in the 1850 TN Census in the OTHER Listing which means Other Sir Names Living in a Subject House Hold that does not have the same Sir Name. e.g. Angline Webb was living with her uncle Rev. John Landrum. After 1850 I have not yet found her in TN. Still looking. Later I found an Angline Landrum marriage. Could be her uncle adopted her.? Sam Webb -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 10:13 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WEBB] Webb DNA and name origin In a message dated 5/27/2005 6:54:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: As to Webb lines dying out, that doesn't have to happen. Betty, I was speaking of the Y-DNA dying out, not the name. As a woman whose father decided to name me Anne Webb Nelson to keep my mother's father's line alive another generation, and a woman who retained my maiden name when I married, I am another living example of what you describe. However, the WEBB DNA died on my twig in 1957 when my beloved DeeDee did. Women do not carry Y-DNA (or we'd be men!). But you do point up a situation we need to watch for. There are records of WEBB being taken on (or given up) as a surname in the situations you describe for your Riddells. WEBBs in the DNA Project should keep a close eye on their matches and if the names known to be involved in these kinds of transactions show up, it could be a clue to their geographic origins. Among the names I have seen in UK documents as "Webb alias ____" or "____ alias Webb" are: Richmond (probably the most famous case) Evered/Everet/Averett/etc (probably the second most famous) Nicholls Kelleway/Calloway/etc and others I can't recall off the top of my head I have dealt with this in a past issue of the WEBB Surname DNA Newsletter, but it's worth repeating. Anne ==== WEBB Mailing List ==== <<Webb Genealogy; History and Family Traditions >> To change list modes, leave, or contact list admin http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/w/webb.html Use < http://resources.rootsweb.com/surnames/w/e/WEBB/ > To connect to your list website and post your web links and family pages To Webb notes see http://www.wvi.com/~wb

Betty, My Cousin has two girls and one of them had a boy. His first name is Webb. One of my girls has the name Tiffany ROSE Webb. The middle name Rose was my mother's maiden name. We do use means to preserve maiden names. Sam Webb -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 9:54 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WEBB] Webb DNA and name origin As to Webb lines dying out, that doesn't have to happen. If a Webb family has girls only, the girls do NOT have to change their names when they get married. And their children can have the Webb name on their birth certificates, and can then pass on the Webb name to their descendants. In some cases, the daughter's husband can take the Webb name. Yes, it's rare, but absolutely legal. In most U.S. states, a child automatically is given his mother's name. This custom was used by my mother's Riddell ancestors, and for centuries was very common among other aristocratic English families. The Riddell family, one of the original families who invaded England in 1066 with William the Conqueror, has a tendency to have nothing but daughters. To preserve the ancient barony, when the girls married, the grooms took the Riddell name. Thus the line -- and the aristocracy with all its titles and priviledges (not to mention castles, annuities and estates) -- is still hanging on. The current baron, James Buchanan Riddell (the 23rd baron in the line, I believe) owes his title and his extensive land holdings to this custom. And yes, he has nothing but a passle of girls. Guess what they'll do when they get married? By the way, Webb is my maiden name. Although I'm married to a Welshman named Howell, I never changed my name and never will. Heritage means nothing to my husband (although I love him dearly), but it means a great deal to me. Betty Webb www.bettywebb-mystery.com Author of "DESERT SHADOWS: PUBLISHING CAN BE MURDER," "DESERT WIVES: POLYGAMY CAN BE MURDER," and "DESERT NOIR." All by Poisoned Pen Press. "Eye-popping." The NEW YORK TIMES. "Loyalty, compassion and a sharp sense of humor help Arizona PI Lena Jones survive as she continues to struggle with her troubled past in Webb's third socially conscious, thought-provoking mystery." PUBLISHERS WEEKLY ==== WEBB Mailing List ==== <<Webb Genealogy; History and Family Traditions >> To change list modes, leave, or contact list admin http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/w/webb.html Use < http://resources.rootsweb.com/surnames/w/e/WEBB/ > To connect to your list website and post your web links and family pages To Webb notes see http://www.wvi.com/~wb

In a message dated 5/27/2005 9:42:46 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I'm looking for info on a Jessee Webb. He may be my ggrandfather. He had a son named Henry Clay Webb b. 1844-45. Henry Clay was born in Tn. Does any of this ring a bell? I'm at a brick wall beginning with Henry Clay and his parents or siblings. Any help would be great. Have you talked to Nonie Webb? I think she knows the TN WEBBs about as well as anyone does. ::ducking in case Nonie is trying to hit me with a plate or skillet cause last I heard she was busy busy busy:: Anne

In a message dated 5/27/2005 9:05:12 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Anne, It's nice to know that we are on the same wave-length. Yes, thank you for turning on the "light bulb". I will start with Jesse's brothers lines and see if I can find someone still living. I guess that means females as well? Thanks for the help. Got to be a male to do Y-DNA but if you can find a female, she probably knows where the males are! And the females often are most interested in genealogy. Anne

In a message dated 5/27/2005 8:08:59 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: It would be an interesting turn of events if these alias Webbs all connected somehow. I think they probably are, but I also think it makes the DNA picture a bit confusing. I have been trying to get the RICHMOND family to do DNA so we can see if it matches any of our WEBBs (I personally think some went back to using RICHMOND and some continued to use WEBB. Haven't gotten around to looking hard at Evered/etc or Calloway yet. But nobody has mentioned having a match on those surnames. Something to keep in mind. Will look forward to seeing your research! Anne

Anne, It's nice to know that we are on the same wave-length. Yes, thank you for turning on the "light bulb". I will start with Jesse's brothers lines and see if I can find someone still living. I guess that means females as well? Thanks for the help. Carol (nee Webb)

I have been researching the Webb line for a while and have run across the Richmond alias Webb, the Evered/Everet alias Webb and the Kelleway/Callaway alias Webb. These folks all came from Wiltshire, England. I think that one my research pans out, we will find that they are all related somehow. I had to put it on hold for a while but will get back to it this summer. Interestingly, Nicholas Webb of Marshfield, Gloucestershire married 1- Millicent Daniel and 2- Francis Kellaway. Nicholas traces his line back to William Richmond alias Webb and Joan Ewen. Millicent Daniels sister Gertrude married Thomas Kellaway, Francis's brother. Gertrude and Thomas Kellaway had a son Daniel Nicholas and Francis had a son Robert who inherited his cousin land and other investments in Maryland in 1673. The Kellaway Family Association has been trying to find out who William Webb alias Kellowe is. He was a mayor of Old Sarum, near Salisbury in the late 1400's and early 1500's. His will is dated 1523. I have to go through my Webb research and will have to find how I thought the Evered/Everet alias Webb connected. I don't remember it offhand. It would be an interesting turn of events if these alias Webbs all connected somehow. All our male Webb descendants are also dead, or are still babies so DNA will have to wait. Kathryn ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [WEBB] Webb DNA and name origin > In a message dated 5/27/2005 6:54:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > As to Webb lines dying out, that doesn't have to happen. > Betty, > > I was speaking of the Y-DNA dying out, not the name. As a woman whose > father decided to name me Anne Webb Nelson to keep my mother's father's > line alive > another generation, and a woman who retained my maiden name when I > married, > I am another living example of what you describe. However, the WEBB DNA > died > on my twig in 1957 when my beloved DeeDee did. Women do not carry Y-DNA > (or > we'd be men!). > > But you do point up a situation we need to watch for. There are records > of > WEBB being taken on (or given up) as a surname in the situations you > describe > for your Riddells. WEBBs in the DNA Project should keep a close eye on > their matches and if the names known to be involved in these kinds of > transactions show up, it could be a clue to their geographic origins. > Among the names I > have seen in UK documents as "Webb alias ____" or "____ alias Webb" are: > > Richmond (probably the most famous case) > Evered/Everet/Averett/etc (probably the second most famous) > Nicholls > Kelleway/Calloway/etc > and others I can't recall off the top of my head > > I have dealt with this in a past issue of the WEBB Surname DNA Newsletter, > but it's worth repeating. > > Anne > > > ==== WEBB Mailing List ==== > <<Webb Genealogy; History and Family Traditions >> > To change list modes, leave, or contact list admin > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/w/webb.html > Use < http://resources.rootsweb.com/surnames/w/e/WEBB/ > > To connect to your list website and post your web links and family pages > To Webb notes see http://www.wvi.com/~wb > >

In a message dated 5/27/2005 6:54:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: As to Webb lines dying out, that doesn't have to happen. Betty, I was speaking of the Y-DNA dying out, not the name. As a woman whose father decided to name me Anne Webb Nelson to keep my mother's father's line alive another generation, and a woman who retained my maiden name when I married, I am another living example of what you describe. However, the WEBB DNA died on my twig in 1957 when my beloved DeeDee did. Women do not carry Y-DNA (or we'd be men!). But you do point up a situation we need to watch for. There are records of WEBB being taken on (or given up) as a surname in the situations you describe for your Riddells. WEBBs in the DNA Project should keep a close eye on their matches and if the names known to be involved in these kinds of transactions show up, it could be a clue to their geographic origins. Among the names I have seen in UK documents as "Webb alias ____" or "____ alias Webb" are: Richmond (probably the most famous case) Evered/Everet/Averett/etc (probably the second most famous) Nicholls Kelleway/Calloway/etc and others I can't recall off the top of my head I have dealt with this in a past issue of the WEBB Surname DNA Newsletter, but it's worth repeating. Anne

In a message dated 5/27/2005 6:54:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Anne, By "collaterals" do you mean siblings, neighbors, other Webb lines, other possible relatives, or something else? (Sorry to have to ask what to me sounds like a basic question any newbie should know.) Merrell Merrell A collateral line is one "along the side." For example, my mother was an only child, so her WEBB twig daughtered out. But her father had two brothers -- their lines are collateral to mine. So I got the descendant of one of the brothers to test for Y-DNA, as it should be either an exact match or very very close. We will never know which, but with the slow rates of mutation, the likelihood is that it is exact. The farther back up your direct line you go, of course, the likelihood that it is not exact increases slowly. However, this increase isn't enough to invalidate testing the descendant of your great-grandfather's brother, again since the markers mutate slowly. Hope this is clear. If not, let me know and I'll try to make it clearer! Anne Anne

Carol: My Vester McGary Webb line is dieing out also. I have one male cousin but he had two girls and so did I. There are other Webb cousins from the Lewis Ezell Webb line that have male children younger than or still in, child bearing age. Sam Webb -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 1:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [WEBB] Webb DNA and name origin It was interesting to read about the Webb branches dying out. My grandfather, Jesse Ernest Webb's descendency line has come to an end. We used to call our family members "Jesse's Roots", but because the only male members died young and that the rest were either girls or sons of Webb mothers, there is no one left to carry the name. That is why it is so important to find my Webb ancestors. My grandfather's father was William Jason Webb, whose father was William Henry Webb. They were all born in southern IN (Gibson and Warrick Cos.) and William Henry's father was supposed to be a John or a William Webb from either KY or NC? The problem for me is to try to separate all the William Webbs and to find which one was related to my William Henry. Since I cannot depend on DNA testing, I have to have someone connect with my family line and then go from there. Anyone have any Webbs living in Warrick County in the early to mid-1800's? The common "given" names in my family were Jesse, William, John, Julius with middle names like Ernest, Seaton, Willis, Wallace, and Jason. I do know that they were strict Methodists and may have been related to the Boone family (mere speculation). Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks, Carol (nee Webb) ==== WEBB Mailing List ==== <<Webb Genealogy; History and Family Traditions >> To change list modes, leave, or contact list admin http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/w/webb.html Use < http://resources.rootsweb.com/surnames/w/e/WEBB/ > To connect to your list website and post your web links and family pages To Webb notes see http://www.wvi.com/~wb

As to Webb lines dying out, that doesn't have to happen. If a Webb family has girls only, the girls do NOT have to change their names when they get married. And their children can have the Webb name on their birth certificates, and can then pass on the Webb name to their descendants. In some cases, the daughter's husband can take the Webb name. Yes, it's rare, but absolutely legal. In most U.S. states, a child automatically is given his mother's name. This custom was used by my mother's Riddell ancestors, and for centuries was very common among other aristocratic English families. The Riddell family, one of the original families who invaded England in 1066 with William the Conqueror, has a tendency to have nothing but daughters. To preserve the ancient barony, when the girls married, the grooms took the Riddell name. Thus the line -- and the aristocracy with all its titles and priviledges (not to mention castles, annuities and estates) -- is still hanging on. The current baron, James Buchanan Riddell (the 23rd baron in the line, I believe) owes his title and his extensive land holdings to this custom. And yes, he has nothing but a passle of girls. Guess what they'll do when they get married? By the way, Webb is my maiden name. Although I'm married to a Welshman named Howell, I never changed my name and never will. Heritage means nothing to my husband (although I love him dearly), but it means a great deal to me. Betty Webb www.bettywebb-mystery.com Author of "DESERT SHADOWS: PUBLISHING CAN BE MURDER," "DESERT WIVES: POLYGAMY CAN BE MURDER," and "DESERT NOIR." All by Poisoned Pen Press. "Eye-popping." The NEW YORK TIMES. "Loyalty, compassion and a sharp sense of humor help Arizona PI Lena Jones survive as she continues to struggle with her troubled past in Webb's third socially conscious, thought-provoking mystery." PUBLISHERS WEEKLY

In a message dated 5/27/2005 9:15:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Start at your grandfather Jesse and back up the line from there looking for the collaterals, one generation at a time. Anne, By "collaterals" do you mean siblings, neighbors, other Webb lines, other possible relatives, or something else? (Sorry to have to ask what to me sounds like a basic question any newbie should know.) Merrell

I'm looking for info on a Jessee Webb. He may be my ggrandfather. He had a son named Henry Clay Webb b. 1844-45. Henry Clay was born in Tn. Does any of this ring a bell? I'm at a brick wall beginning with Henry Clay and his parents or siblings. Any help would be great. [email protected] wrote:It was interesting to read about the Webb branches dying out. My grandfather, Jesse Ernest Webb's descendency line has come to an end. We used to call our family members "Jesse's Roots", but because the only male members died young and that the rest were either girls or sons of Webb mothers, there is no one left to carry the name. That is why it is so important to find my Webb ancestors. My grandfather's father was William Jason Webb, whose father was William Henry Webb. They were all born in southern IN (Gibson and Warrick Cos.) and William Henry's father was supposed to be a John or a William Webb from either KY or NC? The problem for me is to try to separate all the William Webbs and to find which one was related to my William Henry. Since I cannot depend on DNA testing, I have to have someone connect with my family line and then go from there. Anyone have any Webbs living in Warrick County in the early to mid-1800's? The common "given" names in my family were Jesse, William, John, Julius with middle names like Ernest, Seaton, Willis, Wallace, and Jason. I do know that they were strict Methodists and may have been related to the Boone family (mere speculation). Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks, Carol (nee Webb) ==== WEBB Mailing List ==== <> To change list modes, leave, or contact list admin http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/w/webb.html Use < http://resources.rootsweb.com/surnames/w/e/WEBB/ > To connect to your list website and post your web links and family pages To Webb notes see http://www.wvi.com/~wb

In a message dated 5/26/2005 10:44:11 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Oh, there were lots of kids, many who were male. I think that if I go into the descendents of the brothers, that I may find someone left who would give me a collateral line DNA. Why didn't I think of that? It all makes sense. Is this the answer to your question(s)? I hope I have "second guessed" your answer to my problem. Please let me know if I am now on the right track. Thanks so much and please confirm my train of thought. Carol (nee Webb) Dear Carol ABSOLUTELY! And yes, that IS why I asked ::Smile:: I can't STAND to see you so discouraged about it and I was almost positive there could not be no males at all from a line with that many known generations --- Look for the one CLOSEST to you in time Carol. Start at your grandfather Jesse and back up the line from there looking for the collaterals, one generation at a time. ::Dancing in joy:: We're gonna get you there! Let me know if I can help in any way! Anne