Searching for info on William Watts born abt 1844,poss MS.He was married to Mary CRABTREE.They had at least 5 childern. Clem C born 16 Apr 1880. JoAnn born 16 May 1885,Huntsville,Ala. William died 19 July 1917,Hunt Co,TX. Any info would be great. Thanks in advance. Toni Boise

On Wed, 3 Mar 1999 FindMyKin@aol.com wrote: > Help me with this one: > > 1. John A WATTS Sr b abt 1749 Anson Co NC wife Judith RAWLES > b abt 1752. > 2. Was there a John A WATTS jr b 15 Nov 1810 Telfair Co GA? > Is this the son of 1? > John A Watts Jr married (1) Elizabeth M MOORE (or was > it SESSIONS), (2) Bethsheba WIGGINS, (3) Celia RABURN? > 3. Did John A Watts Jr and Elizabeth M MOORE/SESSIONS > have the following children: > T. T. WATTS b 1831 Monroe Co AL > BENJAMIN E. WATTS (What does the "E" stand for?) > ELIZABETH M. WATTS b 1837 Monroe Co AL > JAMES E. WATTS b 1839 Monroe Co AL > MARY E. WATTS b 1841 Monroe Co AL > GUSTAVES E. WATTS b 1847 Monroe Co AL > MARGARET E. WATTS b 1849 Monroe Co AL > DAVID MOORE WATTS b 1851 Monroe Co AL > > Contact me at Findmykin@aol.com. Thanks. > > Waymon Griffin Waymon, Sorry I can't be of help on the earlier John A. Watts, since I cannot go nearly that far back on my Watt's line. But I do need to ask if you have any additional information on JAMES E. WATTS, b. 1839? I am seeking a James who may have been born about that time, father of my grandfather, JOHN WATT. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Bob Strong Robert W. Strong Graduate School of Library ******************* "AT THE FEAST OF EGO, & Information Science ************************ EVERYONE LEAVES HUNGRY." University of Texas at Austin strong@gslis.utexas.edu

Catherine - found my notes. According to them, Susannah Watts, daughter of Thomas Watts Sr., married Jeremiah Strother in Fauquier co., VA.. The Watts/Key relationship I have is as follows: John Key came to America with the Quakers and William Penn in 1682. His son, John Jr., was the first white child born in Philadelphia and this John married Martha Tandy. Their great grandson, Joseph, married Judith Watts in 1784 in Bedford, VA, and they moved to Greene co., GA, along with Thomas Watts Jr., his wife, Hannah Rust Boggess Watts, and other closely allied families. One of their nine children was Tandy Watts Key who moved on to Lowndes co., AL. Another was Burrell P. Key who married Temperance Brooks, a great-granddaughter of Roger Williams. An interesting family! Does this fit with your notes at all? It seems to have been common for several members of one family to marry members of another so that the relationships between the two occur over and over and can become confusing. Would appreciate any corrections to the above. Carolyn

Looking for information on George Watts, d 1818 in Fayette, Kentucky. Married Martha _____. Children were George, Barnard, Alsa, Martha, Dolly, Mary, George and Benjamin.

Help me with this one: 1. John A WATTS Sr b abt 1749 Anson Co NC wife Judith RAWLES b abt 1752. 2. Was there a John A WATTS jr b 15 Nov 1810 Telfair Co GA? Is this the son of 1? John A Watts Jr married (1) Elizabeth M MOORE (or was it SESSIONS), (2) Bethsheba WIGGINS, (3) Celia RABURN? 3. Did John A Watts Jr and Elizabeth M MOORE/SESSIONS have the following children: T. T. WATTS b 1831 Monroe Co AL BENJAMIN E. WATTS (What does the "E" stand for?) ELIZABETH M. WATTS b 1837 Monroe Co AL JAMES E. WATTS b 1839 Monroe Co AL MARY E. WATTS b 1841 Monroe Co AL GUSTAVES E. WATTS b 1847 Monroe Co AL MARGARET E. WATTS b 1849 Monroe Co AL DAVID MOORE WATTS b 1851 Monroe Co AL Contact me at Findmykin@aol.com. Thanks. Waymon Griffin

Info in LDS Family Search Online. Theola bakermail@alltel.net -----Original Message----- From: Icdrose1@aol.com <Icdrose1@aol.com> To: ROSS-L@rootsweb.com <ROSS-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 12:10 PM Subject: [ROSS-L] Fwd: [SNOW-L] LDS Family Search >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >--part0_920404993_boundary >Content-ID: <0_920404993@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > >--part0_920404993_boundary >Content-ID: <0_920404993@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> >Content-type: message/rfc822 >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >Content-disposition: inline > >Return-Path: <SNOW-L-request@rootsweb.com> >Received: from rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (rly-zd05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.229]) by > air-zd01.mail.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Tue, 02 Mar 1999 12:17:05 > -0500 >Received: from bl-14.rootsweb.com (bl-14.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.30]) > by rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) > with ESMTP id MAA28673; > Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:16:47 -0500 (EST) >Received: (from slist@localhost) > by bl-14.rootsweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA05517; > Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:18:25 -0800 (PST) >Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:18:25 -0800 (PST) >From: Vpeverhart@aol.com >Message-ID: <21a57ce7.36dc1b5b@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:09:47 EST >Old-To: SNOW-L@rootsweb.com >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 >Subject: [SNOW-L] LDS Family Search >Resent-Message-ID: <"l6DCj.A.BWB.h1B32"@bl-14.rootsweb.com> >To: SNOW-L@rootsweb.com >Resent-From: SNOW-L@rootsweb.com >X-Mailing-List: <SNOW-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/668 >X-Loop: SNOW-L@rootsweb.com >Precedence: list >Resent-Sender: SNOW-L-request@rootsweb.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > >FYI, I received this today from the NHROCKIN-L@rootsweb.com List. It was sent >to that list from > grc@haystack.mit.edu (Glenn Campbell) < who wrote the >following: > >"This is a bit long winded but worth reading. PLEASE circulate, at least >the address of the FAMILY SEARCH, to any roots-l you may belong (to) so that >the LDS will consider to keep it running." > >----Original Message----- >From: Virginia Ewing [mailto:vewing@ctesc.net] >Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 5:00 PM >Subject: LDS FAMILY SEARCH COMING SOON > >As the director of a LDS Family History Center, I have received a notice >from Salt Lake LDS FHL, announcing the Beta testing of Family Search on >line. It is not yet up, a problem with a piece of equipment, but will >be starting sometimes this month and will be up only a few weeks as a >test run. > >If there is not a lot of interest it will be taken off and not put back >on. So spread the word and keep trying to get through. When it comes on >line the URL will be: > www.familysearch.org <. > >I have not been told exactly what will be available but know at least >the Ancestral File and Family History Library Catalog will be included. > >Family Search is the name of the program we have on CDs in all LDS FHCs. >Some public libraries also have this program. FS includes the IGI, >Ancestral File, Family History Library Catalog, Social Security Death >Records, Koran and Vietnam war death records, and Scottish Church >Records. > >For those of you not familiar with the various searches, the IGI is the >International Genealogical Index. It includes, in alphabetical order, >all of the names that have been sent to the Temples to have ordinances >performed in their name. > >Names in the IGI are usually submitted by members, but not always. >Non-members also submit their family names to get them into the IGI. >Some of the marriages may have been part of extraction programs. The >names were taken from courthouse records and checked and rechecked by >several volunteers before being accepted as correct. > >Most people do try to send in accurate information but there are many >mistakes. My advice is, always check the original source. Use the IGI >to find where people with your surname would have lived and order the >census and court records from that area. > >Ancestral File is Gedcoms of group and pedigree sheets sent in by >members and non-members. The name and address of the submitter is >included and hopefully will allow you to contact others working on your >line. If the address is out of date sometimes a letter to the Membership >dept. in Salt Lake will get you a correct address if the person was a >member of the LDS church. > >Once again, the material is only as good as the research that went into >it and some of it is pretty bad. Check it out before you 'adopt' it. > >If you find a mistake on Ancestral File, you can send in your corrections, >along with your sources of proof, and it will be noted in the next update. >The first submitter does not have to provide proof, but you do, if you are >making a correction. You can add additions to a file, or submit a new >file. You do not have to be a member to submit material. > >The Family History Library Catalog is a listing of every book, film and >fiche available at the Salt Lake City LDS Family History Library. This >allows us to find what is available for each locality, world-wide. It >includes the FHL call numbers and a description of what is included in the >film/fiche or book. > >The material from the books and film/fiche will not be on line. That is >not something they can do, at this time. Hopefully it will be a >possibility some time in the distant future. > >The film and fiche will still have to be ordered through FHC. Microfilm >and microfiche are the property of the FHL and are sent into the care of >the LDS FHC director and must remain under her/his care until returned. >For this reason they are never allowed to be taken from the LDS FHC. > >Almost all of the microfilm and microfiche at the LDS Family History >Library in Salt Lake City can be ordered into any LDS FHL, anywhere in >the world, but there are a few exceptions. Copyright laws prevent them >from using material without the written consent of the owner. Some of the >film and fiche where filmed by companies other than the LDS Church and >permission to circulate these film to LDS FHCs has been denied. There >will be a notice included in the description, saying it can not be >circulated. Many of the SC microfilm where made by a company who has >refused permission to allow the film to be circulated, but there are many >microfilm available for SC, some covering the same material that is on >the restricted film. > >The LDS FHL is a non-profit organization, and that is why it still cost >only 15 cents a sheet for a microfiche, $3.25 plus tax to rent a >microfilm for a month [may be more in other countries] and the >SourceGuide and other home use programs are sold at such a reasonable >price. We aren't allowed to make a profit, even in the FHCs. > >The books that are listed are not loaned out but can sometimes be >obtained through an Inter-library loan through your public library. >You can request copies of pages and if a book is indexed, by ordering the >index you can see if your people would have been listed. In cases where >the copyright has expired the book may have been filmed or can be filmed >upon request. Never hurts to ask. > >Virginia Ewing vewing@ctesc.net >listowner: Gober, Perry, Ashley & MSWilkin[son] co, MS >search the mailing list archives at >http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > >----- End Included Message ----- > > >==== SNOW Mailing List ==== >To search the archives of this list go to: >http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > > >--part0_920404993_boundary-- > >

Hi - I am new to this list. I am seeking for information on the maiden name of Sarah, the wife of Thomas Watts Sr. of Old Prince William and Fauquier counties, VA. They were married ca 1745; he died in 1769. Their children included Thomas Jr., Francis, Sarah, Evy, and Susannah. Will be happy to share materials. Carolyn Tamblyn

I am wondering if anyone on this list might be able to help me with my search. My great, great grandfather was David Watt and for many years now I have been looking for his parents. Here is the data that I have: I am seeking the parents of David WATT, born in 1791 in PA, and Jane ANDERSON, born in 1796 in Coal Hill, PA. They were married 11 Apr 1815 in Pittsburgh, PA. David WATT served in the War of 1812 with the Pittsburgh Blues, a company of volunteer militia. According to newspaper articles about their marriage, David was from Brownsville, Fayette Co., PA , and Jane was from Pitt Township, Allegheny Co., PA. In 1817 this family moved to Cincinnati, OH residing there until 1833 when they moved to Winchester, Scott Co., IL. They had nine children: Isabel, Henry A., James, David B., Euphemia Ann, Hannah Jane, Robert A., Oliver S., and William H. David died in 1848 and Jane in 1851, both in IL. Jack G. Watt Thank you for responding to the list and/or to: JackGWatt@aol.com.

This is my Watts line. Enoch Chesley was b.1847 on the Santee river near Columbia SC He is listed in the 1870 Giles tN census along with 2 brothers, Allen possily his twin and Joseph L. married to Sarah with 1yr old Mary Enoch and Martha Holt b. 1854 Giles TN m. abt 1870 1. Mammie Watts b.1874 Giles TN m. McDonald 2. Robert (Bob)Watts b.1876 Giles TN m. Belle Zora Redwine (my line) 3. Albert Watts 4. Clint Watts 5. Bill Watts b. 1884 Collin Co TX m. Lillie Mae Hanks 6. Mary Lue Watts 7. Finis watts 8. Susie Watts they lived in TX and OK before making their way to Ca. Barbara Watts Frisby

Maryland Marriages, 1801-1820 Compiled by Robert Barnes page 192 Watt, George; 7 Aug. 1817; Elizabeth Penn 06 FR-1326 Watt, James P.; 17 June 1810; Susannah Long 31 BA-83 Watts, Henry; 2 Feb. 1804; Rebecca Stansberry 15 AA-3 Watts, Joseph; (Protestant); 13 Aug. 1801; Margaret Davis (He promised to allow his wife to educate their children in the Catholic Church) 15 BA-154 Watts, Richard B.; 22 Feb. 1803;Elizabeth Rawlings 15 AA-2 Watts, Thomas; 16 Jan. 1803; Polly Tarlton 02 SM-185 Waughop, Henry; 30 Sept.1802; Sarah S. Watts 02 SM-185 This was the only page from the book that I received. As you might be able to tell, I've tracked my Watt/Watts line back to Maryland. It now look as if my Charles Watts, who married Elizabeth Longley, was a son of Richard and Elizabeth Watts or as I've seen it Watt. Charles and several of his siblings left MD for Ohio after the War of 1812 and before 1818. Here is what I have for his siblings: John Watts Salomon Watts William Watts Richard Watts James Watts Harriett Watts You could pull the S off of any of your Watts, if they were from Baltimore Co MD or in Perry and Muskingum County, they could be related. Chuck

To my WATTS family and all researcher's, 3) James F. WATTS b 1805 Greenbrier, VA s/o David C. WATTS and Elizabeth MORRISON, James d 1885 Gallia Co., OH, married 1) Peggy (Margaret) WADDELL Children: 4) Mary Elizabeth WATTS b 1832 Gallia, OH, d 1902, married Albert MOSSMAN 4) David A. WATTS b 1834 Gallia, OH, d 1870, married Sarah Caroline HILL 4) Lydia Patterson WATTS b 1836 Gallia, OH, d 1916, married Alonzo HULBERT 4) Nancy C. WATTS b 1839 Gallia, OH, d 1861 4) Margaret WATTS b 1840 Gallia, OH, married Robert DRUMMOND 4) Sarah J WATTS b 1842 Gallia, OH 4) John W. WATTS b 1843 Gallia, OH, d 1923, married Roda E. Pierce 4) James Morgan WATTS b 1844, Gallia, OH, married Nancy Jane COLLIS 4) Matilda L. WATTS b 1845, Gallia, OH, d 1862 4) Emily WATTS b 1854, Gallia, OH, d 1855 James F. WATTS married 2) Elizabeth MOSSMAN 27 Aug 1861 Children: 4) Lorenzo Dow WATTS b abt1865, Gallia, OH 4) Daniel Robert WATTS b abt 1865, Gallia, OH 4) Ella Bell WATTS b abt 1865, Gallia, OH married John WOOD I will send more WATTS family later. Diana M. Cronhardt of Borrego Springs, and Rogue River, OR ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Hi , I'm new to the Watts list so I will post a little on my Watts family .The family came from the Adstock area in Buckinghamshire,England & a lot of them were shoemakers.Other names connected with the family are Tew/Toe ,Kibble,Ayres.If anyone else is researching the name in BKM.I would love to hear from you. Kind Regards Debra

I have a bio from Harrison & Carroll co that concludes the following: James Watt, a native of Maryland migrated to Ohio in 1816 & settled in Smith Twp, Belmont co. His son Thomas (b Maryland) married Jane Gladden. Their son Robert Watt (b 2 Nov 1815 Maryland) married Rachel Delong. Their daughter Hannah (b 17 June 1852) married William K Fitch (b 21 July 1844) in Belmont Co on 20 Sept 1870. I am looking for further information on the forefather, James Watt and his wife Jane Gladden. Also, would be glad to have any additional information available on these families if you have it. Thanks, Christine

To all my WATTS family and researcher's, 2)James WATTS b 12 June 1782 in Greenbrier, VA son of James WATTS and Mary PERKINS. Died 6 Apr 1857 in Hedgesville, Berkley, WV; married Nancy WEGFIELD 13 Feb 1810 Nancy was born 9 May 1788 in PA. Children: 3) Mary WATTS b 1811 Butler Co. PA 3) Jane WATTS b 1812 Mercer Co.,PA 3) David WATTS b 1814 Stubenville, OH 3) John WATTS b 1816 Greenbrier Co., VA 3) Elizabeth WATTS b 1818 Greenbrier Co. VA 3) Sarah WATTS b 1820 Virginia married Rev George STEVENSON (1810-1893) born Tyrone, Uster, Ireland 3) Wilson WATTS b 1822 Greenbrier Co., VA 3) Rebecca WATTS b 1824 Virginia m Rev William McKean MEMINGER (1822 -1888) born Liberty Valley, Perry Co., PA 3) Margaret Ann WATTS b 1826 Rockingham Co., VA m Rev David SHOAFF (1823-1871)born Juniata Co., PA 3) Nancy Wigfield WATTS b 1829 Rockingham Co., VA m Rev Hamilton GAVER (1830-1910) born Burkettsville, Frederick, MD I will send more of my WATTS family later. Diana of Borrego Springs, CA ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

On a recent trip to the UK I purchased a book - Dating Old Photographs by Robert Pols. According to this book, the tintype process was patented in the mid 1850s by an American, Hamilton L. Smith. It says tintypes were introduced in about 1856 and were used by beach and fairground photographers as late as 1950, but most were produced before the First World War. This little book gives quite a bit of useful information on how to date photographs so I might be able to help if you contact me with more detail. Jackie Mailto:jacquep@cyberbeach.net ----- End quote At 10:21 AM 16/02/99 -0700, Barbara Van Camp wrote: >Does anyone know the approximate years tin types were >made??? >I have one of a Watts Family Member and I need to date it. >Any help would be appreciated. >Barbara > > >

Seeking any info on Barsheba Watts who married William Gulledge. William was born in 1730 so that means they probably married sometime after 1745, at least, lol. This all took place probably in Anson County, NC. They had children: Stephen Malachi Gulledge Rebecca Gulledge James Ratcliff Gulledge Elija Gulledge Washington Lafayette Gulledge Benjamin Franklin Gulledge Francis Ann Gulledge Thanks in advance for any help you might offer. Sincerely, DM "If you are losing the game, change the rules." http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/5606 DarkMedicine's "From Here To Eternity" Co Founder of http://www.badgirls.org and PROUD to be one of "The Notorious 14" http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1855 HotRods Trucks and 4x4's http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Park/4480 Once Upon A Time At Tricks' Place

Does anyone know the approximate years tin types were made??? I have one of a Watts Family Member and I need to date it. Any help would be appreciated. Barbara

Hi Barbara. Can't give a specific answer but I have a couple of tin types from my grandmothers photo album from 1906. One was of her father which I would think was taken late 1800s to beginning of 1900s. You might get an answer from a store that sells photographic supplies, or your local library. Gordon A. WATTS Port Coquitlam, British Columbia gordon_watts@bc.sympatico.ca I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, Please ask me to wait. -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Van Camp <bvc0621@futureone.com> To: WATTS-L@rootsweb.com <WATTS-L@rootsweb.com> Date: February 16, 1999 9:17 AM Subject: [WATTS-L] Tin Type Photos??? >Does anyone know the approximate years tin types were >made??? >I have one of a Watts Family Member and I need to date it. >Any help would be appreciated. >Barbara >

Hi Chuck. Have come close a few times but am still looking for myself <]:-) . Sorry but no Theophilus in my WATTS line, which unfortunately is only a small part of my 7200 name database, mostly on my mother's lines. The following shows pretty well all I have on my WATTS line which appears to originate and for some generations stay in the Axford, Ramsbury Parish, Wiltshire, England area. My grandparents came from England to British Columbia in 1912. Aside from myself, my brother, and my children, there are no living WATTS of our line in North America (that I know of). Frank WATTS in this list went to South Africa and his descendants are/were there. Elizabeth Amy WATTS married William TEGG and emigrated to Brandon, Manitoba. I am still searching for her family. Good luck in your search. Descendants of William WATTS 1 William WATTS ........ 2 Philip WATTS 1847 - 1917 ............ +Mary BRIGHT 1844 - ................... 3 Elizabeth Amy WATTS 1876 - ....................... +William TEGG ............................. 4 Frederick TEGG ................................. +Greta UNKNOWN ............................. 4 Ethel TEGG ................... 3 Frank WATTS 1879 - 1957 ....................... +Janet Robertson Ross 1880 - 1961 ............................. 4 William Ross WATTS 1914 - 1993 ................................. +Edith Elizabeth UNKNOWN ........................................ 5 Cynthia Lilian Janet WATTS ........................................ 5 Lorraine Hazel Irene WATTS ........................................ 5 Edith Margaret WATTS ............................. 4 Francis Mary WATTS 1917 - ................................. +A. BULL ............................. 4 Philip Frederick WATTS 1919 - 1994 ................................. +Gwendoline Agnes SWARTS ............................. *2nd Wife of Philip Frederick WATTS: ................................. +Elizabeth Margaret COETZER 1927 - ........................................ 5 Ian Alfred WATTS ........................................ 5 Brian Howard WATTS ................... 3 Fred WATTS 1881 - 1957 ....................... +Mary Jane "Jennie" DAVIS 1884 - 1952 ............................. 4 Nellie Elsie WATTS 1910 - ................................. +James Francis Alfred Clarence HOWE 1899 - 1984 ............................. 4 Phillip Allen WATTS 1915 - 1984 ................................. +Dorothy Mae PERRIN 1915 - 1995 ........................................ 5 Gordon Allen WATTS 1941 - ............................................ +Wilda Marguerite Torgeson 1945 - 1994 .................................................. 6 Bruce Phillip WATTS 1965 - ...................................................... +Julie Anna Thomas 1968 - ............................................................. 7 Brittni Taylor WATTS 1993 - ............................................................. 7 Dana Nicole WATTS 1996 - .................................................. 6 KELLY Lynne WATTS 1968 - ...................................................... +Darren Martin 1965 - ............................................................. 7 Amy Beth Martin 1996 - ............................................................. 7 CAMERON Nicholas Martin 1998 - ........................................ 5 Daniel Eldon WATTS 1946 - ............................................ +Carol-Lynne Jean LOMAX 1951 - Happy Hunting. Gordon A. WATTS Port Coquitlam, British Columbia gordon_watts@bc.sympatico.ca I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, Please ask me to wait. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Watts <wattschuck@hotmail.com> To: gordon_watts@bc.sympatico.ca <gordon_watts@bc.sympatico.ca> Date: February 16, 1999 3:25 AM Subject: Re: [WATTS-L] WATTS-HUBBARD connection >Gordon, > >If you've found yourself, would you mind looking to see if you have a >Theophilus Watts in your line? > >Chuck >Wilmington, OH, home of the banana split

Barbara Van Camp wrote: > > Does anyone know the approximate years tin types were > made??? > I have one of a Watts Family Member and I need to date it. > Any help would be appreciated. > Barbara I had one of my father in 1907 when he was 5 years old. They made tintypes when I was a kid in the 1930's (street photographers). My Webster's dictionary says 'tintype' 1864 (ferrotype) and under 'ferrotype' it says 1844 - made on a thin iron plate. That would give you about a 100 year range - not very 'pinpointy'. Bill Watts