Thanks Christina for passing on the 9/11 name list. I posted the message below to the Newfoundland list as my paternal Irish Connors/Kennedy line came to Brooklyn, NY after a long settlement in Placentia Bay and Harbor Grace. I wanted to Thank the city of Gander, NFLD for their help on 9/11/01. While 9/11 victims were truly representative of the global makeup of NYC, the Irish loss seemed overwhelming...at least to me. I could not list them all so ultimately I included the URL for a 9/11 victims list. It was a hard day to look for the dead. Thanks all,Joanne >>>>List, I cannot help but see these names scrolling across the CNN screen. Memorialize these names today because someone will come looking for them someday. The victims of the World Trade Center attack in New York City, those at the Pentagon, those on the planes, and those of that lost their lives trying to rescue them. My brother Daniel J. Connors witnessed the second plane crashing into second tower he was luckily late to work at bldg. 7 of the World Trade Center plaza. After trying to reach him for 6 hours, his call came through and we watched together 2,000 miles apart as CNN filmed the collapse of his office, building 7. Margaret Mary Conner,James L. Connors. and Jonathan Connors were not as lucky. I have no idea who they were except that they were victims of this attack against the US on Sept. 11, 2001. While the names of the victims are being recited ceremoniously on CNN, I recognize too many familiar surnames ...... ADAMS, BENNETT, BIRD, BISHOP, BRENNAN, BURKE, BYRNES, CAREY, COLEMAN, CALLAGHAN, CLARKE,COLLINS, CULLEN,JONES, MURRAY, MURPHY, SULLIVAN, TEMPLE, TUCKER, WELLS, WHALEN, WHITE YOUNG these are just some of the names I am seeing. In the 136 years of the NY Fire Department's history it lost something like 750 men in the line of duty; in 28 minutes on Sept. 11, 2001 the NYFD lost 343 men. I have been following my ancestors by occupation and in the NYFD the Irish tradition of doing what your father did has resulted in devastating family loss. May history honor all victims of 9/11. As the NYC Mayor said "They were our fathers, our mothers, our daughters and sons. They were our neighbors and friends. They were US." A special thanks to Gander, Newfoundland for its kindness on 9.11.01. >From the NYC descendants of Newfoundland immigrants to the US. For a complete list of victims: http://www.wtc-worldtradecenter.com/phpframer/framer.php?url=http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/rescue.victims.html

Greatgrandmother, Annie Josephine PHELAN (in other documents spelt Whealan and Failing) was born in Waterford, Ireland about 1861. In 1877 she married Thomas Bernard GOULD (born London England) in New Zealand. At this point, I'm not sure how or when she arrived in New Zealand. Her parents names were Sylvester PHELAN and Ellen REGAN. I would love to make a connection with anyone else researching this family. Dianne WA

Is anybody aware of a similar service for people seeking Waterford relatives ? Vincent Le Plastrier Seeking - Walsh, Magrath, McGrath, from Clonanav, Tooralla, Castlequarter, Ballymakee, Curraheenahover ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joanne" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 11:22 PM Subject: [WAT] RE;Tipperary paper > Just found this: > > you can contact the Star Newspaper in Tipperary, Ireland to post > ads looking for relatives. > > Here is the address & the ads are free! [email protected] >

Just found this: you can contact the Star Newspaper in Tipperary, Ireland to post ads looking for relatives. Here is the address & the ads are free! [email protected]

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Hello Many thanks to all those who replied to my posting about the spelling of surnames etc. Quite clearly our ancestors couldn't spell! While I have not considered changing the probably inaccurate spelling and pronunciation of my surname, various databases have decided that my wife is an O Dowling. Her initials are S.O.Dowling, and more and more official and junk mail is arriving addressed to S. O Dowling, and in one instance to S.O'Dowling! Cheers Mick Dowling a.k.a; Dowlan, Doolan, Doolen, Doolin, Dooling, Doolon, Doulan, Dolan, Dooley.....................................

This site has 1901 census information for Lismore Waterford. I know that some of my Lismore family had neighbors very close by on the Cork Border. There is also an old map of that area at this site and some other useful links. Have a look. http://www.hotkey.net.au/~string/1901mocollopalpha.html

Thank you, Mike Dowling, for writing about your family name and how it could be changed. I think some of the newcomers on the list need to read this, so that they will look for changes in their family names. I have had people argue that a certain name couldn't be theirs because of slight difference in the spelling. I just laughed to myself !! Bless you all, Mary Pat So. California [email protected] http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~downeast

Posting this message to multiple lists. Originally posted to Co.Tipperary lists so much of the information relates to Irish records, but generally the issue is a universal one. -------------------------------------------- The whole issue of the spelling and pronunciation of names is in this day and age a very precise business, but 200 years ago the opposite could have been said. The following is a collage of several relevant messages recently posted to the rootsweb Co.Tipperary lists, by Richard Callanan and myself. The first time the average person would have their name recorded anywhere was a Baptism or Marriage record, and these records are generally the earliest available to search. Baptism and Marriage records. First names. In early Church records the Gaelic first names were spelt in the Latin equivalent, or what the Priest decided was the equivalent, additionally the name had to be that of a recognised saint, i.e. 'a Christian name'. For example Sean became John, Liam/William, Eamon/Edward, Siobhan/Johanna, Mairead/Margaret, Maire/Mary. The following is Richard Callanan's example of first name variations. 'The registers may well show names the people themselves never used. I have a plethora of "Cornelius" entries which I am sure were properly the traditional Irish "Connor" "Conor" or "Conn". The registering priest's requirement was not only to latinise the name but to make it a recognisable Saint. The most obvious distortion here is "Honoria" - a Roman saint - used for the Irish original "Nora" and other variants (because there wasn't a "Saint Nora"!). The problem is compounded by people believing that these Latin concoctions were in fact their real names so they also begin to use them in formal circumstances such as gravestones. There is a good article on first names by Jane Lyons at http://www.sci.net.au/userpages/mgrogan/cork/jane_names.htm' Surnames. Surnames were spelt in English, as there was no Latin equivalent. In the early 19th century the majority of the population were effectively illiterate, and as such they would have had little idea of how their name should be spelt in their native Gaelic let alone English or Latin. There was no 'Standard' concerning spelling generally and certainly not when the subject was the conversion of a Gaelic surname into English. McLysaghts books on Irish Surnames weren't available in the early 19th century. This lack of any standards of translation and spelling would explain the wide variations in spelling of surnames, and confusion about the 'tribal' origin of the family. The following is an example of surname spelling variations in my Dowling family. 'James Dooling (who was James Dowling when he died in Australia) Married Mary Sullivan. Their children were Baptised in Ballylooby Co Tipperary as Dooling, Doolin, Dooly, Doolan, Dowling, Douling and Doolon. It would appear the spelling was entirely at the whim of the Priest, and it was the same Priest who Baptised one child as Dooly and another as Doolan!' Whether these people were historically Dooleys, Doolens, Doolans, or Dowlings is neither here nor there, and impossible to pursue. The pronunciation of any of the names (in this part of Tipperary) is the same regardless of the spelling, 'DO LEN', quite a surprise I must say when I discovered I hadn't been pronouncing my name correctly! This variation of spelling is quite typical amongst my Tipperary ancestors and I would assume typical enough amongst other 'uncommon' names which hadn't attracted a standardized spelling. My Hylands were also Healan, Heelan, and Healam. Names with 'standardized' spelling I would give as examples are, Kelly, Ryan, Murphy, Sullivan, Butler, Bourke (Burke!). The spelling of those surnames doesn't seem to be all that open to variation, probably because they were so common, or prominent that they attracted a standardized spelling. There is also the possibility of simple mistakes in spelling on other documents such as ships passengers lists. Bourke and Rourke immediately come to mind as names which could easily be mistaken as being the same. Transcribing mistakes are also another factor. Different researchers have presented different spellings for the same Baptism or Marriage record. I wonder how accurately the typed names in some sections of the Griffiths Valuation were transcribed from the hand-written 'House Books' and 'Field Books'. Aliases. I only know of one example of this. For reasons unknown a branch of my Tipperary Dowlings decided in the 1840s to change their name to Kelly. The descendants who came to Australia were Kellys, others who came later were Dowling-Kellys. At least one family member who stayed behind stuck with Dowling. I guess it's neither here nor there whether you pronounce and spell your name correctly or even that you can be confident of which ancient name you are descended from. What is of utmost importance to us as genealogists is that by researching for names that only exactly match the current day spelling of your name, you are surely missing out on tracking down countless relatives and ancestors. My missing link to family still living in Ireland was a Stephen Dooling born about 1860 or so. If I could find his parents names I could establish my relationship with people still living in Tipperary. After 15 years I found his baptism record when I widened the search parameters to include more abstract spellings of Dooling. When I finally located him his surname was spelt Dolan. Cheers Mick Dowling Melbourne Australia ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Mick wrote: The whole issue of the spelling and pronunciation of names is in this day and age a very precise business, but 200 years ago the opposite could have been said. Wholeheartedly agree. I can claim Connors, Conners, Conner, and oConnors and would probably figure a few dozen Cullens or Collins. You thrown in a few cases of picking a new name in a new country and well it could cause a genealogist to have nightmares. Not to mention that these names were translations from Gaelic. I have taken some comfort in tracking them by occupation and locality. I believe my name is Conner when referring to an individual and plural as a group. Joanne [email protected]

The mines at Knockmahon were operated by the Mining Company of Ireland (MCI). Bonmahon was the village where the largest part of the workforce lived. The records of MCI are not listed in Hays and do not appear to be in any public repository. I have not found them yet, and have been researching Irish mining history since 1993. The printed half-yearly reports do not contain lists of employees. The only employee lists I have seen for Irish mines are from the Berehaven Mines in County Cork. The person who has done the most work on the Knockmahon mines is Des Cowman -- see his "Life and Work in an Irish Mining Camp c. 1840," Decies 14 (1980);"Survival, Statistics and Structures: Knockmahon Copper Mines, 1850-78," Decies 46 (1992); and "Landlords and Their Minerals c. 1850: Two Waterford Case Studies," Decies 47 (1993) -- among a number of essays he has published. The Mining Heritage Trust of Ireland began a journal last year which may be of interest to many on the list. Bill Mulligan

I'd be interested in reading the article about the mines, when and if you get a chance to post it. Mary Yonkers NY

Does anyone know if there are any records of the people who worked the copper mines in Bonmahon and Knockmahon? I do have a very interesting newspaper article from 1978 about the mines, sent to me by a friend in Ballyduff Lower. Luke

In a message dated 9/2/02 4:02:20 AM Mountain Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: I am researching Michael Kanary/Keniry/Canary etc. born in Waterford County about 1838 according to his obit from Ohio. I have nothing more on where in Ireland. Anyone have any ideas? Lorraine [email protected]

I haven't posted my interests in awhile so I am hoping to catch some new subscribers. I have my Joseph NASH who married Anne BRADLEY in 1815 in Holy Trinity Parish, Waterford, IRL. She was the daughter of James BARRINGTON BRADLEY and Anne GADSDEN. My Joseph was actually born Causeway Meadows Farm, WOR, ENG but somehow ended up in IRL. We believe he went to learn about the meat packing business in IRL but we are not sure what his contacts were in IRL. He was a bacon merchant in Waterford. I am looking for more information about these families: NASH, GADSDEN and BRADLEY and the meat packing industry. That particular occupation played a large role in my ancestors lives and continued across the ocean to Chicago, IL, Cleveland, OH and Baltimore, MD. Maybe even Virginia. There is a connection with Birmingham, ENG also. So if any of this sounds remotely familiar, please contact me!!! I am most anxious to find out more!!! Judy

Im trying to track a Nugent family who emigrated from Rathgormuck Co.Waterford to Canada in the early 1800s. The only information I have is that John Nugent (d.o.b. approx. 1850) a brother of my greatgrandmother went to live with his fathers brother (Christian name unknown) and family in Canada about 1867. John died during his first winter there. I have no idea where in Canada they lived. Johns parents were Patrick Nugent (emigrated to Australia in 1867), and Ellen O'Gorman (who never left Ireland). Johns grandparents were John Nugent and Catherine Curry. Apart from the usual Irish Christian names, this Nugent family uses the relatively uncommon names of Richard and David. Any information about the family and descendants, or how to track down a Death Certificate for John, would be greatly appreciated. Mick Dowling Melbourne Australia ==== WATERFORD Mailing List ==== ** Messages to the Waterford list should be sent to [email protected] **

This was really good! I am sure all will enjoy it! I know I did! Joanne http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/05/olson.htm

I'm seeking information on the Backas and Hill families of the Kilmeaden area, esp. that of Jason Backas/Jane Hill. (These two were one set of my 2nd great-grandparents. Can someone help, please? Irene http://www.nauticom.net

--=======5C124DEF======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-B142B7C; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please forgive me if you get this more than once as I am cross posting. Dear List Where do I start without taking up much of your time. I have met my brick wall and banging my head against it for so many years... so leaving no stone unturned I am turning to this list for help... let me repeat that... H E L P!!! Here is what I have: MICHAEL J. (JOHN?) SULLIVAN b. Sept 1859 (Parents unknown) and I cannot locate his death certificate here in the USA. I know where he died but a Sullivan born on this date cannot be found in Montana death records. The closest one is 1851 with a father; MICHAEL SULLIVAN and mother; CATHERINE COLLINS MICHAEL: Wife: JANE ANNE (LOTT/KNOTT/NOTT) SULLIVAN (Her father: JOHN LOTT/KNOTT/NOTT from England) (Her mother: BRINDLECOMB from England and died at sea) Michael and Jane's first child born in Ireland was John ? Sullivan b. May 1882 In May 1882-Sept 1883 the three left Ireland (cannot locate ship or date of emigration) had their 2nd child in PA Sept 1883. What I would like to know is: The parents of Michael. Where/When Michael was born. Date Michael and Jane married. and if possible the real maiden name of Jane Anne. Absolutely anything is more than I have right now. Please email me [email protected] this way we won't hog the list. I last have him in 1908 Helena, Lewis and Clark County Montana. Most appreciative, ~Huz in Arizona,USA --=======5C124DEF=======--

would be very grateful for any information about Thomas QUINN, who is in the 1852 Griffiths Valuation leasing land in Knockyelan in Kilrossanty Parish, along with a John Quinn. It is possible Thomas was from nearby Garranmillon and that he was married in 1847, and I would lilke to know the maiden name and anything else about his wife. I know of one daughter, Maria or Mary (1852-1913), who married Richard HARNEY from Annestown on February 14, 1871 and they remained in Knockyelan and had 7 children. Thanks to anyone who can help me. Irishisa