I wonder if anyone on the list can do me a huge favour? From Ancestry I obtained the image of the following marriage but the fathers' details in the image were obscured. I messaged Ancestry, asking for a better image, without result. Can anyone check the original for me - or does anyone have a transcript of it? This is the one: St Michael, Coventry, Warwicks 253. 23 Dec 1866 by ? Edwin MATTHEWS, 21, bachelor, labourer, of Jordan Well (father William - occupation illegible) Sarah HOUGHTON, 36, widow, of Jordan Well (father John.... - surname & occupation illegible) Edwin signed; Sarah signed with X her mark Wits: Joseph INGRAM; Lucy X CARPENTER Minister : illegible Now, I believe this was a 'runaway' marriage. The bride is nearly twice the age of the groom - in 1861 they were living next door to each other in Long Lawford, therefore I think the abode they both give of Jordan Well is an 'abode of convenience' for the purposes of marriage. I also believe that Sarah was nee HOUGHTON and not a widow, but she had two pre-marriage children to explain away (not the children of Edwin). For these reasons, I would dearly like to know what fib she gave about her father's name and occupation! Or, since she was an out-of-wedlock child herself, she may have known her father and this father's info might be true, and gold-dust for my researches! Isn't it just typical that the info you most crave is always the bit that's illegible? So if anyone can give me the missing details I will be hugely grateful. If no-one can help directly, do you know if Warwicks RO (or a Local Studies Library in Coventry) would do this look-up without charging? Also I'd be interested in talking to anyone else with interests in the names HOUGHTON (aka ORTON; HORTON); MATTHEWS; ROUND; ESSEX and COSBY in Long Lawford/Newbold on Avon. Celia Renshaw in Chesterfield UK

Hello Celia, I'm afraid that you have the Luftwaffe to thank for this one, the "obscured bit" actually having been burned away. Warwick Record Office have the Bishops Transcripts on film up until about 1845. This may coincide with Coventry moving from Lichfield to Worcester diocese so there may be some later BTs somewhere else but I have doubts about that, it may be a case of ordering the marriage certificate. I am looking into CARPENTER in Cov - do you know how or if Lucy who witnessed the wedding connects? Regards Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Celia Renshaw" <celiarenshaw@gmail.com> To: <warwick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 1:25 PM Subject: [WAR] 1866 marriage at Coventry St Michael >I wonder if anyone on the list can do me a huge favour? From Ancestry > I obtained the image of the following marriage but the fathers' > details in the image were obscured. I messaged Ancestry, asking for a > better image, without result. Can anyone check the original for me - > or does anyone have a transcript of it? This is the one: > > St Michael, Coventry, Warwicks > 253. 23 Dec 1866 by ? > Edwin MATTHEWS, 21, bachelor, labourer, of Jordan Well (father William > - occupation illegible) > Sarah HOUGHTON, 36, widow, of Jordan Well (father John.... - surname & > occupation illegible) > Edwin signed; Sarah signed with X her mark > Wits: Joseph INGRAM; Lucy X CARPENTER > Minister : illegible > > Now, I believe this was a 'runaway' marriage. The bride is nearly > twice the age of the groom - in 1861 they were living next door to > each other in Long Lawford, therefore I think the abode they both give > of Jordan Well is an 'abode of convenience' for the purposes of > marriage. I also believe that Sarah was nee HOUGHTON and not a widow, > but she had two pre-marriage children to explain away (not the > children of Edwin). For these reasons, I would dearly like to know > what fib she gave about her father's name and occupation! Or, since > she was an out-of-wedlock child herself, she may have known her father > and this father's info might be true, and gold-dust for my researches! > Isn't it just typical that the info you most crave is always the bit > that's illegible? So if anyone can give me the missing details I will > be hugely grateful. > > If no-one can help directly, do you know if Warwicks RO (or a Local > Studies Library in Coventry) would do this look-up without charging? > > Also I'd be interested in talking to anyone else with interests in the > names HOUGHTON (aka ORTON; HORTON); MATTHEWS; ROUND; ESSEX and COSBY > in Long Lawford/Newbold on Avon. > > Celia Renshaw > in Chesterfield UK

Hi Celia I was just about to reply when Peter beat me to it. The Bishops Transcripts for St Michael stop in 1846 and there won't be any at Coventry as these were effectively phased out once civil registration came in. Warwick RO have the original registers, which is what the ancestry images have been filmed from, and just had a look at Coventry FHS to see if they have any transcripts -they do but only up until 1837. It looks like you will have to order the marriage certificate from the GRO or the register office to obtain the remaining details, which will be listed on the copy certificates.  Regards Ellen  Warwick Record Office have the Bishops Transcripts on film up until about 1845. This may coincide with Coventry moving from Lichfield to Worcester diocese so there may be some later BTs somewhere else but I have doubts about that, it may be a case of ordering the marriage certificate. >I wonder if anyone on the list can do me a huge favour?  From Ancestry > I obtained the image of the following marriage but the fathers' > details in the image were obscured.  I messaged Ancestry, asking for a > better image, without result.  Can anyone check the original for me - > or does anyone have a transcript of it?  This is the one: > > St Michael, Coventry, Warwicks > 253. 23 Dec 1866 by ? > Edwin MATTHEWS, 21, bachelor, labourer, of Jordan Well (father William > - occupation illegible) > Sarah HOUGHTON, 36, widow, of Jordan Well (father John.... - surname & > occupation illegible) > Edwin signed; Sarah signed with X her mark > Wits: Joseph INGRAM; Lucy X CARPENTER > Minister : illegible > > Now, I believe this was a 'runaway' marriage.  The bride is nearly > twice the age of the groom - in 1861 they were living next door to > each other in Long Lawford, therefore I think the abode they both give > of Jordan Well is an 'abode of convenience' for the purposes of > marriage.  I also believe that Sarah was nee HOUGHTON and not a widow, > but she had two pre-marriage children to explain away (not the > children of Edwin).  For these reasons, I would dearly like to know > what fib she gave about her father's name and occupation!  Or, since > she was an out-of-wedlock child herself, she may have known her father > and this father's info might be true, and gold-dust for my researches! > Isn't it just typical that the info you most crave is always the bit > that's illegible?  So if anyone can give me the missing details I will > be hugely grateful. > > If no-one can help directly, do you know if Warwicks RO (or a Local > Studies Library in Coventry) would do this look-up without charging? ------------------------------- List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Ellen for helpful reply - as you say, purchase of the cert seems like the only recourse left, oh well I'm doing this for a 101 year old great-aunt who knows nothing about her MATTHEWS father and his family, so I guess it's worth it! Regards, Celia in Chesterfield On 6 January 2013 14:23, ELLEN SPENCE <e.m.spence@btopenworld.com> wrote: > Hi Celia > > I was just about to reply when Peter beat me to it. > > The Bishops Transcripts for St Michael stop in 1846 and there won't be any at Coventry as these were effectively phased out once civil registration came in. > > Warwick RO have the original registers, which is what the ancestry images have been filmed from, and just had a look at Coventry FHS to see if they have any transcripts -they do but only up until 1837. > > It looks like you will have to order the marriage certificate from the GRO or the register office to obtain the remaining details, which will be listed on the copy certificates. > > Regards > > Ellen > > > Warwick Record Office have the > Bishops Transcripts on film up until about 1845. This may coincide with > Coventry moving from Lichfield to Worcester diocese so there may be some > later BTs somewhere else but I have doubts about that, it may be a case of > ordering the marriage certificate. > > > > >>I wonder if anyone on the list can do me a huge favour? From Ancestry >> I obtained the image of the following marriage but the fathers' >> details in the image were obscured. I messaged Ancestry, asking for a >> better image, without result. Can anyone check the original for me - >> or does anyone have a transcript of it? This is the one: >> >> St Michael, Coventry, Warwicks >> 253. 23 Dec 1866 by ? >> Edwin MATTHEWS, 21, bachelor, labourer, of Jordan Well (father William >> - occupation illegible) >> Sarah HOUGHTON, 36, widow, of Jordan Well (father John.... - surname & >> occupation illegible) >> Edwin signed; Sarah signed with X her mark >> Wits: Joseph INGRAM; Lucy X CARPENTER >> Minister : illegible >> >> Now, I believe this was a 'runaway' marriage. The bride is nearly >> twice the age of the groom - in 1861 they were living next door to >> each other in Long Lawford, therefore I think the abode they both give >> of Jordan Well is an 'abode of convenience' for the purposes of >> marriage. I also believe that Sarah was nee HOUGHTON and not a widow, >> but she had two pre-marriage children to explain away (not the >> children of Edwin). For these reasons, I would dearly like to know >> what fib she gave about her father's name and occupation! Or, since >> she was an out-of-wedlock child herself, she may have known her father >> and this father's info might be true, and gold-dust for my researches! >> Isn't it just typical that the info you most crave is always the bit >> that's illegible? So if anyone can give me the missing details I will >> be hugely grateful. >> >> If no-one can help directly, do you know if Warwicks RO (or a Local >> Studies Library in Coventry) would do this look-up without charging? > > > ------------------------------- > List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- > List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks so much Peter - I had no idea there was bomb damage to take into account, I was assuming that a shadow had crept into the process when Ancestry was filming. I guess you're right about splashing out on the marriage cert. Btw, I'm afraid I have no idea who Lucy X CARPENTER was, though if you uncover anything about her, I'd be interested. I wonder if Edwin & Sarah went so far as to 'drag people off the street' to be witnesses! It certainly seems likely they were friends or acquaintances rather than rellies. Anyway, I have no other CARPENTERs in their family lines, sorry I can't be helpful. Thanks again, Celia in Chesterfield On 6 January 2013 14:08, Peter J Richardson <pjrich.ntl@googlemail.com> wrote: > Hello Celia, > > I'm afraid that you have the Luftwaffe to thank for this one, the "obscured > bit" actually having been burned away. Warwick Record Office have the > Bishops Transcripts on film up until about 1845. This may coincide with > Coventry moving from Lichfield to Worcester diocese so there may be some > later BTs somewhere else but I have doubts about that, it may be a case of > ordering the marriage certificate. > > I am looking into CARPENTER in Cov - do you know how or if Lucy who > witnessed the wedding connects? > > Regards > Peter > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Celia Renshaw" <celiarenshaw@gmail.com> > To: <warwick@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 1:25 PM > Subject: [WAR] 1866 marriage at Coventry St Michael > > >>I wonder if anyone on the list can do me a huge favour? From Ancestry >> I obtained the image of the following marriage but the fathers' >> details in the image were obscured. I messaged Ancestry, asking for a >> better image, without result. Can anyone check the original for me - >> or does anyone have a transcript of it? This is the one: >> >> St Michael, Coventry, Warwicks >> 253. 23 Dec 1866 by ? >> Edwin MATTHEWS, 21, bachelor, labourer, of Jordan Well (father William >> - occupation illegible) >> Sarah HOUGHTON, 36, widow, of Jordan Well (father John.... - surname & >> occupation illegible) >> Edwin signed; Sarah signed with X her mark >> Wits: Joseph INGRAM; Lucy X CARPENTER >> Minister : illegible >> >> Now, I believe this was a 'runaway' marriage. The bride is nearly >> twice the age of the groom - in 1861 they were living next door to >> each other in Long Lawford, therefore I think the abode they both give >> of Jordan Well is an 'abode of convenience' for the purposes of >> marriage. I also believe that Sarah was nee HOUGHTON and not a widow, >> but she had two pre-marriage children to explain away (not the >> children of Edwin). For these reasons, I would dearly like to know >> what fib she gave about her father's name and occupation! Or, since >> she was an out-of-wedlock child herself, she may have known her father >> and this father's info might be true, and gold-dust for my researches! >> Isn't it just typical that the info you most crave is always the bit >> that's illegible? So if anyone can give me the missing details I will >> be hugely grateful. >> >> If no-one can help directly, do you know if Warwicks RO (or a Local >> Studies Library in Coventry) would do this look-up without charging? >> >> Also I'd be interested in talking to anyone else with interests in the >> names HOUGHTON (aka ORTON; HORTON); MATTHEWS; ROUND; ESSEX and COSBY >> in Long Lawford/Newbold on Avon. >> >> Celia Renshaw >> in Chesterfield UK > > ------------------------------- > List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Celia I have been digging around for potential clues for Sarah but only came up with a possible baptism for a daughter Jane Elizabeth in 1868 Warwickshire, England, Baptisms, 1813-1910 about Jane Elizabeth Matthews Name: Jane Elizabeth Matthews Parish: Newbold on Avon Baptism Date: 6 Jan 1868 Father's Name: Edwin Matthews Mother's Name: Sarah Matthews No doubt you have that if its them, I did not see them in the later census have you found them? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 06/01/2013 13:25, Celia Renshaw wrote: > I wonder if anyone on the list can do me a huge favour? From Ancestry > I obtained the image of the following marriage but the fathers' > details in the image were obscured. I messaged Ancestry, asking for a > better image, without result. Can anyone check the original for me - > or does anyone have a transcript of it? This is the one: > > St Michael, Coventry, Warwicks > 253. 23 Dec 1866 by ? > Edwin MATTHEWS, 21, bachelor, labourer, of Jordan Well (father William > - occupation illegible) > Sarah HOUGHTON, 36, widow, of Jordan Well (father John.... - surname & > occupation illegible) > Edwin signed; Sarah signed with X her mark > Wits: Joseph INGRAM; Lucy X CARPENTER > Minister : illegible