I agree with Jacqui - while it helps to know a bit about Latin, the classical Latin we learnt at school is not much use for reading the debased church Latin used in documents and on tombstones, particularly in the post-mediaeval and post-reformation periods. Some of the clerks lapse into English after the first sentence and others pepper the document with English words they don't know how to translate, while most of the word endings become squiggles to disguise the fact they don't know which case to use. At a Record Office that shall remain nameless, I overheard the person in charge tell someone who asked for help that they had no-one qualified to transcribe difficult old documents in English or to translate from Latin, so if you have a smattering of Latin and know a bit about deciphering old handwriting, you are already one step ahead of the supposed "experts"! MAR in France. > Message du 08/06/07 11:47 > De : "Jacqui Simkins" > A : "Charani" , warwick@rootsweb.com > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [WAR] Latin lessons for the masochists amongst us! > > Some of the old documents are written in poor Latin...my theory is that this was a deliberate ploy by the clerks to show they "knew more" than the rest of the population...!! So they wrote in their own form of Latin....result - impossible to translate! > > Read between the lines is what I was once told to do... > > Jacqui > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Charani > To: warwick@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:32 AM > Subject: Re: [WAR] Latin lessons for the masochists amongst us! > > > A P L wrote: > > > amamus amatis amant > > > > - I couldn't resist showing off!! Miss ROBERTSON be overwhelmed!! > > :)) > > > But what is palaeography? That is definitely GREEK to me? > > It is Greek. It's the study of old handwriting. Mind you, some of > the documents are double Dutch to me. > > -- > Charani (UK) > > ----------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 07/06/2007 14:21 > > >--- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > maraix

Ah yes, the "expert"... an "ex" is a has been....a "spert" is a drip under pressure... better spoken than written <g> Some archive staff seem to have difficulty reading well-formed Victorian hands let alone anything else!!! An added problem in some, only some, archives seems to be that unless a staff member has a formal qualification to, in this instance, read old handwriting, they are not allowed to try to help. Unofficially one staff member said it was "in case they got it wrong and were sued". Barmy, or what?!? Fortunately, my nearest archive has not bowed to such extreme attitudes...and I hope they never do! Jacqui ----- Original Message ----- From: ramaix To: Jacqui Simkins ; warwick@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [WAR] Latin lessons for the masochists amongst us! I agree with Jacqui - while it helps to know a bit about Latin, the classical Latin we learnt at school is not much use for reading the debased church Latin used in documents and on tombstones, particularly in the post-mediaeval and post-reformation periods. Some of the clerks lapse into English after the first sentence and others pepper the document with English words they don't know how to translate, while most of the word endings become squiggles to disguise the fact they don't know which case to use. At a Record Office that shall remain nameless, I overheard the person in charge tell someone who asked for help that they had no-one qualified to transcribe difficult old documents in English or to translate from Latin, so if you have a smattering of Latin and know a bit about deciphering old handwriting, you are already one step ahead of the supposed "experts"! MAR in France. > Message du 08/06/07 11:47 > De : "Jacqui Simkins" > A : "Charani" , warwick@rootsweb.com > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [WAR] Latin lessons for the masochists amongst us! > > Some of the old documents are written in poor Latin...my theory is that this was a deliberate ploy by the clerks to show they "knew more" than the rest of the population...!! So they wrote in their own form of Latin....result - impossible to translate! > > Read between the lines is what I was once told to do... > > Jacqui > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Charani > To: warwick@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:32 AM > Subject: Re: [WAR] Latin lessons for the masochists amongst us! > > > A P L wrote: > > > amamus amatis amant > > > > - I couldn't resist showing off!! Miss ROBERTSON be overwhelmed!! > > :)) > > > But what is palaeography? That is definitely GREEK to me? > > It is Greek. It's the study of old handwriting. Mind you, some of > the documents are double Dutch to me. > > -- > Charani (UK) > > ----------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 07/06/2007 14:21 > > >--- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > maraix ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 07/06/2007 14:21