I agree with Paul: After long enquiry I have proven to my satisfaction that an ancestor (John) produced a son John by his first wife who died subsequently. He then married a widow, who also had a son John; this son taking his adoptive father's name. Both sons named John were born the same quarter of the same year in Coventry. This was untangled by identifying the maiden name of John's second wife, following her through her first marriage, and locating a birth certificate for the John who was subsequently adopted. Clearly in the family circle they would have had nicknames; perhaps John and Jack? By happy [??] mischance, no census year included both sons at home with the joint father, which caused early confusion. And yes, both sons subsequently married and produced a son who in a true flash of inspiration they named John. The serious problem was deciding which John married which wife, and which John then died first. And do I have the correct John as my ancestor? -- Joe Connell Firefox & Thunderbird portals Sunbelt & Avast protection