"Marston Green" is a difficult and tangled one... For it's not (Civilly) an Official Place, but more a "Location" - being no more than "once a part of the former Parish of Yardley". Ecclesiastically, it's even more complex, and its history is messy. Built 1702-3 as 'MARSTON CHAPEL' - "under the authority of a Private Act of Parliament ... in the Parish of Yardley" [per the 1851 Ecclesiastical Census], it remained a Chapel of Yardley until 1907, when it was created a separate Ecclesiastical Parish as "HALL GREEN" [although it may have stayed as "Marston Chapel"] [VCH, WOR, III, 378] - but by the 1950s had become known as "MARSTON GREEN". Which all sounds pretty simple and straightforward - but don't you believe THAT !!! For you need to look at the Mother Parish of Yardley to get the full story... Yardley (Ecclesiastically) was in WORCESTER Diocese - Worcester Archdeaconry to 1892; Birmingham Archdeaconry 1892-1905 (while at Rural Deanery level it was in Kidderminster to 1880; and Northfield 1880-1905). In 1905 Worcester Diocese was divided, and the whole of Birmingham Archdeaconry was transferred to the newly-created BIRMINGHAM Diocese; Northfield Rural Deanery was abolished; and Yardley was placed in Solihull Rural Deanery. In 1906 Birmingham Archdeaconry was divided and Solihull Rural Deanery (among others) was transferred to the newly-created Aston Archdeanery. [In 1907 "Hall Green" was created as a new Ecclesiastical Parish, within Solihull Rural Deanery.] In 1918 COVENTRY Diocese was created (but didn't "acquire" Solihull Rural Deanery) so Marston Green [and Yardley] remained in BIRMINGHAM Diocese - where (it would seem) they still are, although since 1957 they've been in Yardley Rural Deanery... As to where its (early) Registers are kept, the logical place for them would be in Birmingham Central Library - but whether you have to look at the originals or if they've been filmed I don't know. Nor do I know how far back any such registers might extend - it's entirely possible that all their pre-1907 transactions were incorporated within Yardley's Registers. Yardley (Civilly) was in WOR until 31 Dec 1911, when it was transferred to Birmingham County Borough ("associated with" WAR). The Burghers of Brum - entranced by their New Acquisition - abolished it the very next day...... Gus

Thank you Gus, What a detailed explanation! This shows just how complex some of the places in Warwickshire (the geographical place) are, especially when we come to try and find records for our forebears. With regard to the ecclesiastical records for Marston Green: they do not fall within the publicised remit for the Birmingham Archives (the place is not within the city boundary); they *should* be in Birmingham Local Studies (they do not have a list on-line, but imply they have most PRs on film for the Birmingham area). Warwickshire RO has them post-1911 and notes on its on-line catalogue that there are many baptisms for children in Marston Green Homes. However, my edition of the Phillimore Atlas (1995) lists Yardley original registers as being deposited at Birmingham Reference Library (period 1539-1969). HTH Jacqui ----- Original Message ----- From: Gus Tysoe To: warwick@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [WAR] This week's villages-The Marstons - Marston Green "Marston Green" is a difficult and tangled one... For it's not (Civilly) an Official Place, but more a "Location" - being no more than "once a part of the former Parish of Yardley". Ecclesiastically, it's even more complex, and its history is messy. Built 1702-3 as 'MARSTON CHAPEL' - "under the authority of a Private Act of Parliament ... in the Parish of Yardley" [per the 1851 Ecclesiastical Census], it remained a Chapel of Yardley until 1907, when it was created a separate Ecclesiastical Parish as "HALL GREEN" [although it may have stayed as "Marston Chapel"] [VCH, WOR, III, 378] - but by the 1950s had become known as "MARSTON GREEN". Which all sounds pretty simple and straightforward - but don't you believe THAT !!! For you need to look at the Mother Parish of Yardley to get the full story... Yardley (Ecclesiastically) was in WORCESTER Diocese - Worcester Archdeaconry to 1892; Birmingham Archdeaconry 1892-1905 (while at Rural Deanery level it was in Kidderminster to 1880; and Northfield 1880-1905). In 1905 Worcester Diocese was divided, and the whole of Birmingham Archdeaconry was transferred to the newly-created BIRMINGHAM Diocese; Northfield Rural Deanery was abolished; and Yardley was placed in Solihull Rural Deanery. In 1906 Birmingham Archdeaconry was divided and Solihull Rural Deanery (among others) was transferred to the newly-created Aston Archdeanery. [In 1907 "Hall Green" was created as a new Ecclesiastical Parish, within Solihull Rural Deanery.] In 1918 COVENTRY Diocese was created (but didn't "acquire" Solihull Rural Deanery) so Marston Green [and Yardley] remained in BIRMINGHAM Diocese - where (it would seem) they still are, although since 1957 they've been in Yardley Rural Deanery... As to where its (early) Registers are kept, the logical place for them would be in Birmingham Central Library - but whether you have to look at the originals or if they've been filmed I don't know. Nor do I know how far back any such registers might extend - it's entirely possible that all their pre-1907 transactions were incorporated within Yardley's Registers. Yardley (Civilly) was in WOR until 31 Dec 1911, when it was transferred to Birmingham County Borough ("associated with" WAR). The Burghers of Brum - entranced by their New Acquisition - abolished it the very next day...... Gus ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.32/1131 - Release Date: 14/11/2007 16:54

St Edburgha Yardley and Marston Chapel records are in Brum, but where Marston Green is I know not regards Alf FANTHAM Jacqui Simkins wrote: >Thank you Gus, > >What a detailed explanation! This shows just how complex some of the places in Warwickshire (the geographical place) are, especially when we come to try and find records for our forebears. > >With regard to the ecclesiastical records for Marston Green: they do not fall within the publicised remit for the Birmingham Archives (the place is not within the city boundary); they *should* be in Birmingham Local Studies (they do not have a list on-line, but imply they have most PRs on film for the Birmingham area). Warwickshire RO has them post-1911 and notes on its on-line catalogue that there are many baptisms for children in Marston Green Homes. > >However, my edition of the Phillimore Atlas (1995) lists Yardley original registers as being deposited at Birmingham Reference Library (period 1539-1969). > >HTH > >Jacqui > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gus Tysoe > To: warwick@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 12:28 PM > Subject: Re: [WAR] This week's villages-The Marstons - Marston Green > > > "Marston Green" is a difficult and tangled one... For it's not (Civilly) an > Official Place, but more a "Location" - being no more than "once a part of > the former Parish of Yardley". > > > Ecclesiastically, it's even more complex, and its history is messy. > > Built 1702-3 as 'MARSTON CHAPEL' - "under the authority of a Private Act of > Parliament ... in the Parish of Yardley" [per the 1851 Ecclesiastical > Census], it remained a Chapel of Yardley until 1907, when it was created a > separate Ecclesiastical Parish as "HALL GREEN" [although it may have stayed > as "Marston Chapel"] [VCH, WOR, III, 378] - but by the 1950s had become > known as "MARSTON GREEN". > > Which all sounds pretty simple and straightforward - but don't you believe > THAT !!! For you need to look at the Mother Parish of Yardley to get the > full story... > > Yardley (Ecclesiastically) was in WORCESTER Diocese - Worcester Archdeaconry > to 1892; Birmingham Archdeaconry 1892-1905 (while at Rural Deanery level it > was in Kidderminster to 1880; and Northfield 1880-1905). > In 1905 Worcester Diocese was divided, and the whole of Birmingham > Archdeaconry was transferred to the newly-created BIRMINGHAM Diocese; > Northfield Rural Deanery was abolished; and Yardley was placed in Solihull > Rural Deanery. > In 1906 Birmingham Archdeaconry was divided and Solihull Rural Deanery > (among others) was transferred to the newly-created Aston Archdeanery. > [In 1907 "Hall Green" was created as a new Ecclesiastical Parish, within > Solihull Rural Deanery.] > In 1918 COVENTRY Diocese was created (but didn't "acquire" Solihull Rural > Deanery) so Marston Green [and Yardley] remained in BIRMINGHAM Diocese - > where (it would seem) they still are, although since 1957 they've been in > Yardley Rural Deanery... > > As to where its (early) Registers are kept, the logical place for them would > be in Birmingham Central Library - but whether you have to look at the > originals or if they've been filmed I don't know. Nor do I know how far back > any such registers might extend - it's entirely possible that all their > pre-1907 transactions were incorporated within Yardley's Registers. > > > Yardley (Civilly) was in WOR until 31 Dec 1911, when it was transferred to > Birmingham County Borough ("associated with" WAR). The Burghers of Brum - > entranced by their New Acquisition - abolished it the very next day...... > > > Gus > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.32/1131 - Release Date: 14/11/2007 16:54 > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > >

As the On-Line parish clerk for Bickenhill I would like to clear up some confusion about Marston Green (part of Bickenhill Parish & Job Marston (part of Yardley Parish). Marston Green never has been part of Yardley parish and is historically part of Bickenhill Parish. Job Marston was the name of a chapel in Yardley named after its benefactor. This chapel later became Hall Green Parish Church.. Marston Culy & Wavers Marston were the two manors that formed Marston Green, both were part of Bickenhill Parish (at least from medieval times) and have never been part of Yardley. (see "Discovering Bickenhill" by Skipp & Hastings) - Parts of what became Marston Green were in Sheldon & Coleshill parishes. Marston Green became an ecclesiastical parish in 1928. Lewis 1838 directory describes the two Marstons as follows MARSTON, a quarter in the parish of CHURCH BICKENHILL, Solihull division of the hundred of HEMLINGFORD, county of WARWICK, miles (S. S. W.) from Coleshill. The population is returned with the parish. MARSTON, a chapelry in the parish of YARDLEY, lower division of the hundred of PERSHORE, though locally in the upper division of the hundred of Halfshire, county of WORCESTER, 4| miles (S. E.) from Birmingham. The population is returned with the parish. The living is a donative. The chapel was erected in 1704, by Job Marston, Esq. The BMSGH give the following as the origin of Hall Green HALL GREEN - The Ascension (also known as Job Marston Chapel and also Hall Green Parish Church) Fox Hollies Road/School Road (O.S. GR SP1081) Daughter Parish of Yardley 1907 Built 1703 Parts of parish assigned to St Mary's Acocks Green and to St John Sparkhill 1907 Neighbouring parishes Castle Bromwich, Sheldon, Yardley, Bordesley, Aston Gazetteer/Directory entries Hall Green, eccl. dist. and ry. sta., G.W.R., in Birmingham, 4 m S.E. of Snow Hill station; P.O.; dist., pop. 3459. [Bartholomew 1943]

Further to my last, I deliberately omitted the following as that was becoming Too Complicated - for there is a further twist to the tail/tale... Which twist is the *OTHER* Marston Green... Also no more than an Ecclesiastical Parish, created in 1939 out of parts of the (Ecclesiastical) Parishes of Sheldon and Coleshill - which again is where a minor Complication Arises :-( In 1939, Coleshill was BIRMINGHAM Diocese; Aston Archdeaconry; Sutton Coldfield Rural Deanery; and Sheldon was BIRMINGHAM Diocese; Aston Archdeaconry; Solihull Rural Deanery I don't know which Rural Deanery the new Parish was allocated to, but in 1957 it was transferred to [what would seem to be] a 'new' Coleshill R D... In 1957 Tile Cross was created out of a part of it; and in 1972 it lost a further portion towards the creation of Chelmsley Wood. And, like the "other one", I would expect its Registers to've been deposited with at Birmingham central Library. The whole thing is a Mess - and I'm left with a Lingering Suspicion that at least some of the undoubted confusion *may* be down to a misunderstanding by Frederic A YOUNGS, Jr in his Guide to the Local Administrative Units of England [Vol 2; 1991] whould could have conflated the two neighbouring "Marstons"..... Gus

Hi folks, indeed as Gus says its pretty convoluted - Marston Green is not within the old parish boundary of Marston Chapel, being some 4 or 5 miles away Oh what a tangled web we weave regards Alf FANTHAM Kings Norton(now in West Mids once in Warwickshire and previously in Worcestershire) Gus Tysoe wrote: >"Marston Green" is a difficult and tangled one... For it's not (Civilly) an >Official Place, but more a "Location" - being no more than "once a part of >the former Parish of Yardley". > > >Ecclesiastically, it's even more complex, and its history is messy. > >Built 1702-3 as 'MARSTON CHAPEL' - "under the authority of a Private Act of >Parliament ... in the Parish of Yardley" [per the 1851 Ecclesiastical >Census], it remained a Chapel of Yardley until 1907, when it was created a >separate Ecclesiastical Parish as "HALL GREEN" [although it may have stayed >as "Marston Chapel"] [VCH, WOR, III, 378] - but by the 1950s had become >known as "MARSTON GREEN". > >Which all sounds pretty simple and straightforward - but don't you believe >THAT !!! For you need to look at the Mother Parish of Yardley to get the >full story... > >Yardley (Ecclesiastically) was in WORCESTER Diocese - Worcester Archdeaconry >to 1892; Birmingham Archdeaconry 1892-1905 (while at Rural Deanery level it >was in Kidderminster to 1880; and Northfield 1880-1905). > In 1905 Worcester Diocese was divided, and the whole of Birmingham >Archdeaconry was transferred to the newly-created BIRMINGHAM Diocese; >Northfield Rural Deanery was abolished; and Yardley was placed in Solihull >Rural Deanery. > In 1906 Birmingham Archdeaconry was divided and Solihull Rural Deanery >(among others) was transferred to the newly-created Aston Archdeanery. > [In 1907 "Hall Green" was created as a new Ecclesiastical Parish, within >Solihull Rural Deanery.] > In 1918 COVENTRY Diocese was created (but didn't "acquire" Solihull Rural >Deanery) so Marston Green [and Yardley] remained in BIRMINGHAM Diocese - >where (it would seem) they still are, although since 1957 they've been in >Yardley Rural Deanery... > >As to where its (early) Registers are kept, the logical place for them would >be in Birmingham Central Library - but whether you have to look at the >originals or if they've been filmed I don't know. Nor do I know how far back >any such registers might extend - it's entirely possible that all their >pre-1907 transactions were incorporated within Yardley's Registers. > > >Yardley (Civilly) was in WOR until 31 Dec 1911, when it was transferred to >Birmingham County Borough ("associated with" WAR). The Burghers of Brum - >entranced by their New Acquisition - abolished it the very next day...... > > >Gus > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > >

First off - many thanks to Peter, Jacqui, Alf and Pickard, who between them both put me right and pointed me in the right direction :-) For not all that I wrote in my original postings was true - a salutary warning to all *NEVER* to trust what you're told; what you find on the Internet; and what you read in "Authoritative Books"... At least, not without checking and cross-checking first! What is Right is that both were "only" Ecclesiastical Parishes, and both were created after 1900. Neither were (ever) Civil Parishes, and for that reason have no Official ["Government"] status or existence. What is Wrong is that - contrary to the Parish-researcher's 'Bible' [YOUNGS' "Guide to the Local Administrative Units of England] - Marston Chapel, Hall Green was *NOT* "by 1950s, called Marston Green"... In fairness to the Author, they *are* only some 4 miles apart, a distance that's invisible when looking from Baton Rouge, Louisiana :-) But Mr YOUNGS is not exclusively to blame, for those Two Great Online Helps - Parloc and GENUKI - do little to make a murky pool clear. Both state that Marston Chapel is situated in "Marston", WOR, [Parloc has the valid excuse that its nominal cut-off date was around 1837, when it then was in WOR - and equally-correctly ignores Marston Green altogether because it wasn't established until 1939. (However, this is to be amended - for both parishes - in the next Up-dating...)]. Both their databases started off from Gerald Lawson's Parishes Database - and I'm in no way intending to criticise *his* work because of a tiny blip in one detail. For the Other Works of Referemce that he was likely to have used contain little useful and detailed information.... Phillimore's Atlas is no help either, for although its WOR map includes "Marston" within Yardley, it's merely indicated by a 'spot' - located in the middle of Stechford... [But this is about as close as any part of Yardley ever came to Marston Green!] VCH WOR *does* state that Marston Chapel was in Hall Green - and that it was built using funds provided by a Mr Job Marston - but despite a publication date of 1913, is silent as to its having been created a separate Parish in 1907. Arnold-Foster's "Church Dedications" (1899) shows "Marston - unknown - Worcs" [which possibly may have been the Source -work for Gerald Lawson and Phillimore]. (That "unknown" isn't entirely accurate, either, for it had no dedication until after 1911. It is now The Church of the Ascension, Hall Green.) Despite its inclusion in the 1851 Census of Religious Worship, the Census Reports from 1861 to 1901, in their tables of Ecclesiastical Parishes, ignore the Chapel. But 1911 merely lists "Hall Green, 1907" - without a dedication. [Later Censuses didn't cover the CofE...] Which, I feel deals adequately with Marston Chapel - we can all now ignore it as having nothing to do with Last Week's Exercise! Marston Green, though, is another matter - to be dealt with separately, as this alone is far too long... Gus