norenxaq wrote: > I am unsure if most online tudor sites go beyond Owen in the mid 1400s. > anything further back seems to be ignored and perhaps not realised here. > That was my point. If the online sites don't go back beyond there and there's nothing in a library either, then it means that there are no extant records beyond that point. It's also a well known fact that some Royal "genealogies" are fictitious. Perhaps it is wise to stop at the point where claimed descent can be supported. I think it would also be wise to desist from further discussion on Welsh genealogies on an English list.