Hi to the list, I am looking for any suggestions that might help me to solve a mystery and finally confirm the origins of my husbands paternal great-grandfather, Herbert ADAMS, b.c. 1851. I have been trying to knock down this brick wall for so long now, about 8 years on and off, and would either like to solve this or else resign myself to the fact that it is unsolvable! Herbert first appeared on the 1861 census for Birmingham, St. Martin, at 62, Church Street - RG 9/2152 Folio 80, Page 13, as a 9 year old born in Aston Magna, Worcs. He was recorded as a son of James ADAMS, 32, then a Police Constable of Stretton-on-Fosse, Warks. and Mary A. Adams, 28, of Chippenham, Wilts. Now that seemed simple enough, but their marriage certificate shows that James and Mary Ann GROUMAN (Gromore on marriage cert but Grouman on the birth cert of further children) did not marry until 17 Oct 1855, St. John's, Birmingham. To this date I have been unable to find a birth registration or baptism for Herbert to prove his maternal line. He is definitely not one of the Herbert ADAMS registered around that time and both James & Mary Ann were recorded as bachelor & spinster at the time of marriage. There is no birth registration under GROUMAN, which I checked in case he was Mary Ann's child born out of wedlock, although I have been unable to trace her on the 1851. I should mention also that there was a 5 year gap between Herbert's approximate birth and the birth of Mary Ann's 4 children with James. Mary Ann died on 18 Jan 1866 and James married again that year on 28 Jul 1866 to another Mary, this time Mary PERRY of Eaton, Shropshire. I have Herbert's marriage to Ann TEEAR of Husband's Bosworth, Leics, in 1880 on which his father is James ADAMS, Cab Proprietor and Herbert's occupation also as Cab Proprietor. Plus I have Herbert's death certificate from 1901 in Birmingham Workhouse Infirmary with a cause of death as cirrhosis of the liver and cardiac failure. His age was given as 50 years. I have had this on the "back-burner" for a while now, hoping that if I looked at it with fresh eyes, I might find something I might have overlooked, but no such luck. As mentioned, any advice or assistance would be so very much appreciated. Patricia Almonte, ON Canada

At 09:11 PM 3/12/2010, you wrote: >Hi to the list, > >I am looking for any suggestions that might help me to solve a >mystery and finally confirm the origins of my husbands paternal >great-grandfather, Herbert ADAMS, b.c. 1851. I have been trying to >knock down this brick wall for so long now, about 8 years on and >off, and would either like to solve this or else resign myself to >the fact that it is unsolvable! > >Herbert first appeared on the 1861 census for Birmingham, St. >Martin, at 62, Church Street - RG 9/2152 Folio 80, Page 13, as a 9 >year old born in Aston Magna, Worcs. He was recorded as a son of >James ADAMS, 32, then a Police Constable of Stretton-on-Fosse, >Warks. and Mary A. Adams, 28, of Chippenham, Wilts. Now that seemed >simple enough, but their marriage certificate shows that James and >Mary Ann GROUMAN (Gromore on marriage cert but Grouman on the birth >cert of further children) did not marry until 17 Oct 1855, St. >John's, Birmingham. Are you sure that the marriage record is the right one? Or another theory - is it possible that it is this coupld Warwickshire > Aston > Deritend > District 1c > 10 There's a James Adams in the 1851 census, shown as married to a Mary Ann both with an age of 20. His occupation is given as "ticket writer" If they were living together but didn't marry because they were under age OR possibly he was under age but an orphan and didn't have anyone to consent to marriage available. Because this James's brother Abraham, age 11, is shown as living with them - lots of possible reasons but one reason might be that Abraham and James's parents are dead. (If the ages when they actually married (if those are correct). My greatgrandfather and his wife did not marry until he turned 21 because of the lack of any relative to consent - (His mother died when he was an infant, his father when he was 13 and his stepmother when he was 17, which is why this scenario comes to mind.

Hi Lynn, I did look at that family, back in 2006 and even have the (unwanted) marriage certificate of that James Adams and his wife, Mary Ann Whitworth - married 24 Nov 1849, St. Martin, Birmingham. James' father was William Adams, Shoe Maker. So, I took at closer look at them, through subsequent census records, but no Herbert in that family, I am afraid. But I do appreciate your mentioningthem. Also many thanks for the Grauman family information from Wiltshire, another good lead for me to look into. At this time I have who I believed to be Mary Ann's mother, also Mary Ann Grouman, widow aged 65, on the 1871 census with a birth place of Northleach, Glos., living at the home of her youngest daughter, Elizabeth also born Northleach, who married John Bint on 26th Oct, 1851, Aston Juxta, when she was 16. A very productive marriage as there were 9 children on that census and Elizabeth was only 36 Lots to look at, which will certainly keep me busy! Patricia --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lynn Calvin <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 4:29:40 PM Subject: Re: [WAR] ADAMS Family Are you sure that the marriage record is the right one? Or another theory - is it possible that it is this coupld Warwickshire > Aston > Deritend > District 1c > 10 There's a James Adams in the 1851 census, shown as married to a Mary Ann both with an age of 20. His occupation is given as "ticket writer" If they were living together but didn't marry because they were under age OR possibly he was under age but an orphan and didn't have anyone to consent to marriage available. Because this James's brother Abraham, age 11, is shown as living with them - lots of possible reasons but one reason might be that Abraham and James's parents are dead. (If the ages when they actually married (if those are correct). My greatgrandfather and his wife did not marry until he turned 21 because of the lack of any relative to consent - (His mother died when he was an infant, his father when he was 13 and his stepmother when he was 17, which is why this scenario comes to mind. List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ok, so I took a look at Aston Magna. •Original source material relating to Aston Magna, and other parishes in Diocese of Gloucester may be found at the Gloucestershire Record Office. Gazetteers •"ASTON MAGNA, a hamlet in the parish of Blockley, upper division of the hundred of Oswaldslow, in the county of Worcester, but surrounded by the county of Gloucester, 2 miles to the N. of Moreton-in-the-Marsh. The old Fosse Way passes near it. The living is a perpetual curacy in the diocese of Worcester, value £105, in the patronage of Lord Redesdale. The church is dedicated to St. John." [Description from The National Gazetteer of Great Britain and Ireland (1868) transcribed by Colin Hinson ©2003] Historical Geography •"Ecclesiastical parish formed from Blockley, 1847. Vicarage united with Blockley since 1948." (Ref: Guide to the Parish Records of the City of Bristol and the County of Gloucester; I. Gray & E. Ralph, 1963) So even though his family said Worcester in the census, it looks like the records might be in Glocester. I have found people on familysearch.org using the Hugh Wallis IGI batch numbers and browsing through likely locations that I haven't been able to find any other way. I don't know why. Sometimes it's variant spellings. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountryEngland.htm It's tedious. At 09:11 PM 3/12/2010, Patricia A wrote: >Hi to the list, > >I am looking for any suggestions that might help >me to solve a mystery and finally confirm the >origins of my husbands paternal >great-grandfather, Herbert ADAMS, b.c. 1851. I >have been trying to knock down this brick wall >for so long now, about 8 years on and off, and >would either like to solve this or else resign >myself to the fact that it is unsolvable! > >Herbert first appeared on the 1861 census for >Birmingham, St. Martin, at 62, Church Street - >RG 9/2152 Folio 80, Page 13, as a 9 year old >born in Aston Magna, Worcs. He was recorded as >a son of James ADAMS, 32, then a Police >Constable of Stretton-on-Fosse, Warks. and Mary >A. Adams, 28, of Chippenham, Wilts. Now that >seemed simple enough, but their marriage >certificate shows that James and Mary Ann >GROUMAN (Gromore on marriage cert but Grouman on >the birth cert of further children) did not >marry until 17 Oct 1855, St. John's, Birmingham. > >To this date I have been unable to find a birth >registration or baptism for Herbert to prove his >maternal line. He is definitely not one of the >Herbert ADAMS registered around that time and >both James & Mary Ann were recorded as bachelor >& spinster at the time of marriage. There is no >birth registration under GROUMAN, which I >checked in case he was Mary Ann's child born out >of wedlock, although I have been unable to trace >her on the 1851. I should mention also that >there was a 5 year gap between Herbert's >approximate birth and the birth of Mary Ann's 4 >children with James. Mary Ann died on 18 Jan >1866 and James married again that year on 28 Jul >1866 to another Mary, this time Mary PERRY of Eaton, Shropshire. > >I have Herbert's marriage to Ann TEEAR of >Husband's Bosworth, Leics, in 1880 on which his >father is James ADAMS, Cab Proprietor and >Herbert's occupation also as Cab >Proprietor. Plus I have Herbert's death >certificate from 1901 in Birmingham Workhouse >Infirmary with a cause of death as cirrhosis of >the liver and cardiac failure. His age was given as 50 years. > >I have had this on the "back-burner" for a while >now, hoping that if I looked at it with fresh >eyes, I might find something I might have >overlooked, but no such luck. As mentioned, any >advice or assistance would be so very much appreciated. > >Patricia >Almonte, ON >Canada >List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >email to [email protected] with the >word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >subject and the body of the message

Hello Patricia, Strange My husband is from the Adams family in Coventry and also Bedworth. Dick Crack adams his great grand father was a cab proprietor in Bedworth. In your time frame. Do you belong to Genes reunited as it would be an idea to ask him if he can help at all. Jacqui Saturday, March 13, 2010, 3:11:29 AM, you wrote: > Hi to the list, > I am looking for any suggestions that might help me to solve a > mystery and finally confirm the origins of my husbands paternal > great-grandfather, Herbert ADAMS, b.c. 1851. I have been trying to > knock down this brick wall for so long now, about 8 years on and > off, and would either like to solve this or else resign myself to the fact that it is unsolvable! > Herbert first appeared on the 1861 census for Birmingham, St. > Martin, at 62, Church Street - RG 9/2152 Folio 80, Page 13, as a 9 > year old born in Aston Magna, Worcs. He was recorded as a son of > James ADAMS, 32, then a Police Constable of Stretton-on-Fosse, > Warks. and Mary A. Adams, 28, of Chippenham, Wilts. Now that seemed > simple enough, but their marriage certificate shows that James and > Mary Ann GROUMAN (Gromore on marriage cert but Grouman on the birth > cert of further children) did not marry until 17 Oct 1855, St. John's, Birmingham. > To this date I have been unable to find a birth registration or > baptism for Herbert to prove his maternal line. He is definitely > not one of the Herbert ADAMS registered around that time and both > James & Mary Ann were recorded as bachelor & spinster at the time of > marriage. There is no birth registration under GROUMAN, which I > checked in case he was Mary Ann's child born out of wedlock, > although I have been unable to trace her on the 1851. I should > mention also that there was a 5 year gap between Herbert's > approximate birth and the birth of Mary Ann's 4 children with James. > Mary Ann died on 18 Jan 1866 and James married again that year on 28 > Jul 1866 to another Mary, this time Mary PERRY of Eaton, Shropshire. > I have Herbert's marriage to Ann TEEAR of Husband's Bosworth, > Leics, in 1880 on which his father is James ADAMS, Cab Proprietor > and Herbert's occupation also as Cab Proprietor. Plus I have > Herbert's death certificate from 1901 in Birmingham Workhouse > Infirmary with a cause of death as cirrhosis of the liver and > cardiac failure. His age was given as 50 years. > I have had this on the "back-burner" for a while now, hoping that > if I looked at it with fresh eyes, I might find something I might > have overlooked, but no such luck. As mentioned, any advice or > assistance would be so very much appreciated. > Patricia > Almonte, ON > Canada > List archives are at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Best regards, Selkie mailto:[email protected]