Joe Connell wrote: > To be honest, I haven't yet made much use of maps.familysearch.org > I've just been exploring it now and although I'm impressed, I think I > still > prefer Kain and Oliver's "electronic maps". Is there a website for these maps - or somewhere that a sample can be viewed? ========== Iain (The Tiger Telegraph Online) wrote: Have you got the link for k and o maps please? ========== Dear Listers, As far as I know, the Kain and Oliver maps showing parish boundaries are not available online, but you'll find several online examples of their maps, mostly on the GENUKI website, by performing a Google search using "Kain and Oliver Historic Parishes" as the search criterion. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/

Have you got the link for k and o maps please? Iain.. Warwickshire Ancestors

John Ball wrote: > To be honest, I haven't yet made much use of maps.familysearch.org > I've just been exploring it now and although I'm impressed, I think I still > prefer the Kain and Oliver's "electronic maps". Is there a website for these maps - or somewhere that a sample can be viewed? -- Joe Connell Firefox & Thunderbird portals GFI Vipre Security protection

Hi Mike, To be honest, I haven't yet made much use of maps.familysearch.org I've just been exploring it now and although I'm impressed, I think I still prefer the Kain and Oliver's "electronic maps". Four reasons in favour of Kain and Oliver (K&O) immediately spring to mind: 1. The K&O survey includes Welsh counties and parishes (living in Wales, I spend a lot of time on Welsh family history research). 2. the K&O maps clearly identify the names of each parish and its subdivisions. 3. the K&O gazetteer indicates the source(s) of the information about the parish and hamlet boundaries (e.g. tithe maps, 1851 census, early OS maps, etc.) 4. The K&O maps are PDF documents, so saving the whole or parts of the maps as images is very straightforward. However, I must admit that I do like the flexibility of the FamilySearch maps, offering overlays of civil registration districts, hundreds, divisions, etc. Also the integration with the Google StreetView facility is excellent. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/ -----Original Message----- From: Mike in Droitwich Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 6:12 PM To: warwick@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WAR] Now WAR parishes generally Hi John Does maps.familysearch.org with the os overlay not give accurate enough details ? Mike Fisher in Droitwich my family tree http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com

Hi John Does maps.familysearch.org with the os overlay not give accurate enough details ? Mike Fisher in Droitwich my family tree http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com On 17/10/2012 10:43, John Ball wrote: > Jacqui Simkins wrote: > Unfortunately, there are very few maps available that show the boundaries of > the ancient ecclesiastical parishes (as opposed to civil ones) and how they > split over time. For those who do not know a particular area, it is very > difficult to work out the churches and area each covered. > ================= > > Dear Listers, > > I've been interested in the responses to Jacqui's point about the paucity of > maps showing parish boundaries. > > I recommend the work called "Historic Parishes of England & Wales: > Electronic Map - Gazetteer - Metadata" by Roger Kain and Richard Oliver, > published in 2001 by the History Data Service, University of Essex (ISBN 0 > 9540032 0 9). The work consists of a book plus three CDs containing OS > One-inch maps from the 1940s with an overlay of ecclesiastical parish > boundaries. The CDs also contain a spreadsheet of all the Emglish and Welsh > ecclesiastical parishes and their subdivisions. > The work is now out of print, but you may be able to access a copy via > second hand bookshops or via your local library's Inter Library Loan scheme. > > Kind regards, > > John > -------------------- > John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales > E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk > Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/ > > ------------------------------- > List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Jacqui Simkins wrote: Unfortunately, there are very few maps available that show the boundaries of the ancient ecclesiastical parishes (as opposed to civil ones) and how they split over time. For those who do not know a particular area, it is very difficult to work out the churches and area each covered. ================= Dear Listers, I've been interested in the responses to Jacqui's point about the paucity of maps showing parish boundaries. I recommend the work called "Historic Parishes of England & Wales: Electronic Map - Gazetteer - Metadata" by Roger Kain and Richard Oliver, published in 2001 by the History Data Service, University of Essex (ISBN 0 9540032 0 9). The work consists of a book plus three CDs containing OS One-inch maps from the 1940s with an overlay of ecclesiastical parish boundaries. The CDs also contain a spreadsheet of all the Emglish and Welsh ecclesiastical parishes and their subdivisions. The work is now out of print, but you may be able to access a copy via second hand bookshops or via your local library's Inter Library Loan scheme. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/

Jacqui and other friends on the List There is another book which details Parish Boundaries, " Tracing your Ancestors in Warwickshire ( excluding Birmingham )" Besides being available in Book form, from BSMGH, IBSN 1 870331 90 7, it is also transcribed on their Website at - http://www.bmsgh.org/parish/warw/tyaiw/tyaiwintro.html also for Birmingham at http://www.bmsgh.org/TYAIB/index.html Sorry just checked the BMSGH, book no longer available for purchase , though you perhaps pick up a copy second-hand. Happy Hunting Helen Downunder Hello everyone Unfortunately, there are very few maps available that show the boundaries of the ancient ecclesiastical parishes (as opposed to civil ones) and how they split over time. For those who do not know a particular area, it is very difficult to work out the churches and area each covered. A place is not necessarily a religious parish - it can be a village or less within a parish; a town may not have been a religious parish in its own name throughout time. Some maps of "parishes" turn out to be a mishmash of ecclesiastical and civil parishes - Oldbury in north Warwickshire appears as a parish on some maps, it was NEVER an ecclesiastical parish. Modern mapping of church parishes can also be most unhelpful to those delving into the past - boundaries have changed over time. For those with connections in North Warwickshire, see www.nnwfhs.org.uk and particularly their booklet "Baptism, Marriage & Burial Records: What is Where for the North Warwickshire Church of England Parishes". In this booklet there is an outline map of the parishes (including detached chunks that can cause all sorts of problems to researchers), details of how each split - particularly to cope with Victorian "expansion" - and when any closed. The booklet also lists the extant registers and bishop's transcripts for each and where they are held. This is far more detailed than such as Phillimore's Atlas and Index as it includes what is known to be missing from the registers/BTs, plus the dedication of the church - a great aid especially if you've had a hand-copied GRO marriage certificate which is incorrectly completed (as one presented at a Help Desk not so long ago which proclaimed St Edith's, Atherstone...instead of St Editha's, Polesworth ... in the Atherstone registration district). Shame there aren't similarly affordable practical booklets for other areas... There is an old book, which was produced at one time as facsimile on CD, "Studies in Church Dedications of England's Patron Saints" by Arnold-Forster. It can help sort out all the St Mary's, and so on. In WAR we are plagued by places sharing both a name and church dedication...Exhall and Atherstone come to mind. Jacqui The websites of St Mary, St Nicholas & St Paul Warwick all have sections on their history. http://www.stmaryswarwick.org.uk/ http://www.stnicholaswarwick.org.uk/ http://www.stpaulswarwick.co.uk Having visited it several times, I think St Mary's is without doubt one of the most impressive gothic parish churches in England. The rich patronage of the Earls of Warwick helped, of course! Definitely a "must see" if you are in the area. The very high tower can be seen for miles around and the view from the top of the tower is pretty impressive too. St Nicholas is not so grand, but the parish also has a long history. Both have large churchyards with many graves. St Paul's is a much more modest church. The parish was carved out of St Mary's in Victorian times in what was a poorer part of the town beyond the West Gate. At the other end of the town (Emscote) the Victorian church of All Saints, which was demolished in the 1960s, has been replaced by a modern building. When searching for your ancestors It's worth remembing that even small towns may have had several parishes, especially in Victorian times when population growth, rural exodus, and church-going were at their peak. MAR in France. > > Hello everyone, > > When I read St. Nicholas, Warwick, Warwickshire; I think of Kenilworth, > Warwickshire. > > When I see St. Mary's, Warwick, Warwickshire: I don't think of any place. > > Where are these places please!!! > Kind Regards > Carol Kennedy > > ------------------------------- List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 224 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen

Hi All for parish maps I use http://maps.familysearch.org/ Try it on "Wythall" for a ecclesiastical parish that is in Warwickshire & Worcestershire Mike Fisher in Droitwich my family tree http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com

Hello everyone Unfortunately, there are very few maps available that show the boundaries of the ancient ecclesiastical parishes (as opposed to civil ones) and how they split over time. For those who do not know a particular area, it is very difficult to work out the churches and area each covered. A place is not necessarily a religious parish - it can be a village or less within a parish; a town may not have been a religious parish in its own name throughout time. Some maps of "parishes" turn out to be a mishmash of ecclesiastical and civil parishes - Oldbury in north Warwickshire appears as a parish on some maps, it was NEVER an ecclesiastical parish. Modern mapping of church parishes can also be most unhelpful to those delving into the past - boundaries have changed over time. For those with connections in North Warwickshire, see www.nnwfhs.org.uk and particularly their booklet "Baptism, Marriage & Burial Records: What is Where for the North Warwickshire Church of England Parishes". In this booklet there is an outline map of the parishes (including detached chunks that can cause all sorts of problems to researchers), details of how each split - particularly to cope with Victorian "expansion" - and when any closed. The booklet also lists the extant registers and bishop's transcripts for each and where they are held. This is far more detailed than such as Phillimore's Atlas and Index as it includes what is known to be missing from the registers/BTs, plus the dedication of the church - a great aid especially if you've had a hand-copied GRO marriage certificate which is incorrectly completed (as one presented at a Help Desk not so long ago which proclaimed St Edith's, Atherstone...instead of St Editha's, Polesworth ... in the Atherstone registration district). Shame there aren't similarly affordable practical booklets for other areas... There is an old book, which was produced at one time as facsimile on CD, "Studies in Church Dedications of England's Patron Saints" by Arnold-Forster. It can help sort out all the St Mary's, and so on. In WAR we are plagued by places sharing both a name and church dedication...Exhall and Atherstone come to mind. Jacqui The websites of St Mary, St Nicholas & St Paul Warwick all have sections on their history. http://www.stmaryswarwick.org.uk/ http://www.stnicholaswarwick.org.uk/ http://www.stpaulswarwick.co.uk Having visited it several times, I think St Mary's is without doubt one of the most impressive gothic parish churches in England. The rich patronage of the Earls of Warwick helped, of course! Definitely a "must see" if you are in the area. The very high tower can be seen for miles around and the view from the top of the tower is pretty impressive too. St Nicholas is not so grand, but the parish also has a long history. Both have large churchyards with many graves. St Paul's is a much more modest church. The parish was carved out of St Mary's in Victorian times in what was a poorer part of the town beyond the West Gate. At the other end of the town (Emscote) the Victorian church of All Saints, which was demolished in the 1960s, has been replaced by a modern building. When searching for your ancestors It's worth remembing that even small towns may have had several parishes, especially in Victorian times when population growth, rural exodus, and church-going were at their peak. MAR in France. > > Hello everyone, > > When I read St. Nicholas, Warwick, Warwickshire; I think of Kenilworth, > Warwickshire. > > When I see St. Mary's, Warwick, Warwickshire: I don't think of any place. > > Where are these places please!!! > Kind Regards > Carol Kennedy > >

My guess is that both churches/parishes are actually part of the city of Warwick in Warwickshire, they are according to ParLoc. Mike Hello everyone, When I read St. Nicholas, Warwick, Warwickshire; I think of Kenilworth, Warwickshire. When I see St. Mary's, Warwick, Warwickshire: I don't think of any place. Where are these places please!!! Kind Regards Carol Kennedy

The websites of St Mary, St Nicholas & St Paul Warwick all have sections on their history. http://www.stmaryswarwick.org.uk/ http://www.stnicholaswarwick.org.uk/ http://www.stpaulswarwick.co.uk Having visited it several times, I think St Mary's is without doubt one of the most impressive gothic parish churches in England. The rich patronage of the Earls of Warwick helped, of course! Definitely a "must see" if you are in the area. The very high tower can be seen for miles around and the view from the top of the tower is pretty impressive too. St Nicholas is not so grand, but the parish also has a long history. Both have large churchyards with many graves. St Paul's is a much more modest church. The parish was carved out of St Mary's in Victorian times in what was a poorer part of the town beyond the West Gate. At the other end of the town (Emscote) the Victorian church of All Saints, which was demolished in the 1960s, has been replaced by a modern building. When searching for your ancestors It's worth remembing that even small towns may have had several parishes, especially in Victorian times when population growth, rural exodus, and church-going were at their peak. MAR in France. > Message du 15/10/12 18:29 > De : "Carol Kennedy" > A : warwick@rootsweb.com > Copie à : > Objet : [WAR] St. Nicholas and St. Mary > > Hello everyone, > > When I read St. Nicholas, Warwick, Warwickshire; I think of Kenilworth, > Warwickshire. > > When I see St. Mary's, Warwick, Warwickshire: I don't think of any place. > > Where are these places please!!! > Kind Regards > Carol Kennedy > > ------------------------------- > List archives are at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am familiar with both of these places as I live in Warwick. There were two civil parishes here being Warwick St Mary and Warwick St Nicholas. If you google you will find the websites for both of these churches. Hope this helps Kind regards Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Wells" <casofilia@xtra.co.nz> To: <warwick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [WAR] St. Nicholas and St. Mary > My guess is that both churches/parishes are actually part of the city of > Warwick in Warwickshire, they are according to ParLoc. > > > Mike > > Hello everyone, > > When I read St. Nicholas, Warwick, Warwickshire; I think of Kenilworth, > Warwickshire. > > When I see St. Mary's, Warwick, Warwickshire: I don't think of any place. > > Where are these places please!!! > Kind Regards > Carol Kennedy > ------------------------------- > List archives are at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WARWICK > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > WARWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Carol If you go to http://maps.familysearch.org/ Enter Warwick Then zoom in you will see that St Nicholas, St Mary and St Pauls are contiguous Parishes of Warwick Kenilworth is a separate place Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 15/10/2012 17:26, Carol Kennedy wrote: > Hello everyone, > > When I read St. Nicholas, Warwick, Warwickshire; I think of Kenilworth, > Warwickshire. > > When I see St. Mary's, Warwick, Warwickshire: I don't think of any place. > > Where are these places please!!! > Kind Regards > Carol Kennedy

Hello everyone, When I read St. Nicholas, Warwick, Warwickshire; I think of Kenilworth, Warwickshire. When I see St. Mary's, Warwick, Warwickshire: I don't think of any place. Where are these places please!!! Kind Regards Carol Kennedy

Hi William You may be right that Philip Sydney is their child but unless you have sight of his birth or baptism he could be someone elses Why would he go through life as an AINGE ? And why would a mother state she only had ten children and not eleven if he was hers? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 12/10/2012 21:45, William Leece wrote: > A very big thank-you to all who have taken the trouble to make constructive > suggestions, and took their time to look up archives that I don't have > access to. As always, I regret not having quizzed older relatives more > thoroughly when they were still alive - but isn't that always the case? > > The 11th child of Philip Smith and Sarah Ainge appears to have been Philip > Sydney Smith Ainge, born 1871 and died in Bedford 1948. His parents only > married in 1873, but from the clues offered by his Christian names and the > 1871 census I would reckon that he was born the product of a night of > teenage passion - not the first and won't be the last! It's a minor mystery > as to why he was brought up as an Ainge rather than a Smith - although the > 1881 census suggests it a possibiluity he was brought up in part by his > grandparents. > > William > Liverpool

A very big thank-you to all who have taken the trouble to make constructive suggestions, and took their time to look up archives that I don't have access to. As always, I regret not having quizzed older relatives more thoroughly when they were still alive - but isn't that always the case? The 11th child of Philip Smith and Sarah Ainge appears to have been Philip Sydney Smith Ainge, born 1871 and died in Bedford 1948. His parents only married in 1873, but from the clues offered by his Christian names and the 1871 census I would reckon that he was born the product of a night of teenage passion - not the first and won't be the last! It's a minor mystery as to why he was brought up as an Ainge rather than a Smith - although the 1881 census suggests it a possibiluity he was brought up in part by his grandparents. William Liverpool

Hi from 1921 to 1925 Sarah is in 5 court (105) Guildford Street with Albert Edward Smith in 1927 Albert Edward is with Elizabeth Smith (no Sarah) Mike Fisher in Droitwich my family tree http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com

Hi again A Frank George Smith marries a Vera Maud Marshall in Birmingham in 1919 and in from 1927 to 1939 they live at 93 Paget Rd,Birmingham Mike Fisher in Droitwich my family tree http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com

Hi again William Given the name it does make searching difficult but the following are a few thoughts on a couple of your SMITHs A possible death and probate for Frank George SMITH England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006 about Frank G Smith Name: Frank G Smith Birth Date: abt 1894 Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1965 Age at Death: 71 Registration district: Sutton Coldfield Inferred County: Warwickshire Volume: 9c Page: 934 Probate Calendars 1965 SMITH Frank George of 6 Blackberry Lane Four Oaks Sutton Coldfield Warwickshire died 20 August 1965 Probate Birmingham 7 September to Margaret Ada Smith widow £729 Could this be a marriage? possibly a second or more Marriages Mar 1953 HEATHCOTE Margaret A SMITH Sutton Coldf'd 9c 2395 SMITH Frank G HEATHCOTE Sutton Coldf'd 9c 2395 ? England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006 about Margaret Ada Smith Name: Margaret Ada Smith Birth Date: 7 Sep 1910 Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1971 Age at Death: 61 Registration district: Sutton Coldfield Inferred County: Warwickshire Volume: 9c Page: 2311 Possible death for Frederick Thomas England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006 about Frederick T Smith Name: Frederick T Smith Birth Date: abt 1879 Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1935 Age at Death: 56 Registration district: Birmingham Inferred County: Warwickshire Volume: 6d Page: 157 To many of the other names to hazard a guess at I would restate these are just some findings that *may* be your family but need further research to get further Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 12/10/2012 09:33, William Leece wrote: > I'm digging into the family of my maternal grandmother (Florence) Maria > Smith (1878-1932), originally from Worcestershire and Gloucestershire but > living in Birmingham by the late 1800s. > Her parents were Philip Smith, bootmaker, and Sarah Ainge and I seem to > have got them fairly well nailed down thanks to census records. She appears > to have been the third of a family of 11 children and I'm wondering what > happened to my 10 great-uncles and great aunts. It seems likely that some > may have been around into the 1970s, but I never knew any of them. I gather > one of the younger ones came back a broken man from the First World War, > his health ruined by a gas attack, but that's about all I have. > > William > Liverpool

Hi in 1920 Birmingham Electoral Roll 5, court 9 Guildford St, Sarah Smith, Frank George Smith Mike Fisher in Droitwich my family tree http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com